Four U.S. soldiers killed near Baghdad (1506)

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/11054442.htm

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Four U.S. soldiers were killed Friday west of the capital in a province where American troops launched a massive sweep two weeks ago to root out insurgents, the military said.

The soldiers, assigned to the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, were killed "while conducting security and stability operations" in the sprawling Anbar province. The reference to "soldiers" was to highlight that they were not members of the Marine Corps.

The Marines did not say where in Anbar the soldiers were killed. The region - which borders Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia - has been a hotbed of insurgent activity.

:nuke:

Bring them home now!

While junior and his cabinet members along with the VP are taken to the Hague, NOW -

Bush is such an idiot. And only a couple more months until my husband is scheduled to go back to that Hell...

Fuck you Bush

Is that supposed to be better? :eyes:

National Guards. Damn, BRING THEM HOME!

and each arm takes pride in their designation.

The Army are soldiers, the Marines are marines, the Air Force are airman and the Navy are sailors.

They're all invaders, so what's the difference?

We are entitled to know.

We have US troops go door to door, frisking people and checking for weapons. This is extremely dangerous, as Iraqis become infuriated when US troops frisk their wives and daughters.

Also, it means that troops have to wander among dark alleyways where there could be hidden explosives at every turn.

And since we know what happened to the weapons dump at Al-Qaqaa a while back, we know what is causing this.

it is now called operation eyes wide open or some such shit... :puke:

Prayers for their families.

as if that explains it.

I think every city in Iraq has been called that at one point or another since 2003.

I wonder where these boys and girls (possibly) were form.

which is why a good friend of mine has been in a Wisconsin cemetery for the last 39 years. Now they just "assign" guys to operate with them? People who volunteered for the Army or National Guard did NOT volunteer for the Marines.

If you can post information contrary, please post.

During Nam, at least.

"Segregated Marines were unsung heroes

Historians seek to record on film struggles of first black leathernecks

By PAMELA HAMILTON

The Associated Press


BOWMAN — Largely unnoticed, James Glover Jr. delivered ammunition and supplies to fellow Marines fighting on the front lines of World War II on Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima.

It was dangerous, low-profile but essential work,and Glover did not spend a lot of time thinking about glory. He had become one of the nation’s first black Marines by draft, not choice."


Here is the start of a chapter from a book on the same subject:
"Unfortunately for the peace of mind of the Marine Corps' personnel planner, the conception of a carefully limited and isolated black contingent was quickly overtaken by events. The President's decision to abolish volunteer enlistments for the armed forces in December 1942 and the subsequent establishment of a black quota for each component of the naval establishment meant that in the next year some 15,400 more Negroes, 10 percent of all Marine Corps inductees, would be added to the corps. 17 As it turned out the monthly draft calls were never completely filled, and by December 1943 only 9,916 of the scheduled black inductions had been completed, but by the time the corps stopped drafting men in 1946 it had received over 16,000 Negroes through the Selective Service. Including the 3,129 black volunteers, the number of Negroes in the Marine Corps during World War II totaled 19,168, approximately 4 percent of the corps' enlisted men."



It is from an Ask Jeeves query, and the web address is a monster, so I just clipped the relevant passage. I recall a DUer writing that he saw every third draftee taken out of line and being told "you are a marine" in an induction center during the Viet Nam era. Of course, that's just an anecdote.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:fp42qUdNsRsJ:www.facesfromthewall.com/ID1970jun.html+vietnam+marines+drafted&hl=en

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:GblfhxXAGesJ:www.facesfromthewall.com/ID1968nov.html+vietnam+marines+drafted&hl=en

http://www.thirdmarines.net/articles/survivor.asp



Had it happen to me, too, but it didn't take. :)

Personally, I think I favor it, and believe drafting raises the average test scores of the Corps. Or at least it did back in the day. Of course, back then, Marines (and Army) were occasionally 'recruited' out of jail cells, or standing before judges for strong-arm robbery, etc.

Drafting by the Army and Marines, the branches with infantry assignments, ran up the recruitment rates for Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, reserves and NG, so that drafting was extremely rare or nonexistent for them, with possible 'skills' draft occasions as the only exceptions, during Nam. During WWII, FDR ended all voluntary enlistments in 1942, so all inductees for all branches after then were drafted.

I didn't mean anything by the term anecdote, just that it was a memory of mine and not a link. I think anecdotes are often truer history that the official thing.

"Traditionally, the Marine Corps took great pride in the fact that every Marine had voluntarily enlisted. Well before the Vietnam War, senior Marine officers recognized that the Marine Corps indirectly benefit-ted from the draft by recruiting draft-motivated volunteers. "^ The rapid expansion of the Marine Corps in late 1965 and early 1966 forced the Marine Corps to turn to Selective Service to find enough recruits to fill the ranks. The Marine Corps made four draft calls between November 1965 and March 1966, accepting 19,636 draftees in fiscal year 1966."

http://www.ehistory.com/vietnam/books/1968/0580.cfm


"Boots are new recruits into the United States Marine Corps. During the Vietnam War period these young men were a mixture of volunteers and some draftees. None were senator’s or congressmen’s sons. Very few were from the upper echelons of American society. Most were from hard working, well founded, families that believed in something called the "United States of America". These young men had been schooled in a system that started the day with the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag and the Lords Prayer. Many believed in America and all it promised. Most were patriots."

http://exit3.i-55.com/~skidog/jb/mcstuff.html

This stuff took about 1 minute to find, glad to add to "your knowledge."

38 years. He was killed by small arms fire on March 24, 1967. He was twenty years old when he died and had been wounded once in Vietnam and was sent back. His information on the Vietnam Memorial web site says he entered the USMC by Selective Service.

Global day of Protest
Saturday, March 19th 2005 noon
Rally & March on the 2nd Anniversary of the War
End the War-Bring the Troops Home-
Rebuild Our Communities
For more info go here:
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?list=type&type=28


Sat. March 19, 2005, 12 noon, Hollywood
Assemble at Hollywood & Vine
Beat Back the Bush Attack!
No to War & Occupation!

More information on how to meet up with other DUers in Los Angeles go here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=141x7729

This has to be the BIGGEST yet!

just remember why they're there and what they're fightin' fer.

:puke:

That's what one idiot said on a local news show this morning.

As Stalin cynically said, one death is a tragedy. One million deaths are a statistic.

"Fighting there so that we can be free here."

Fucking load of nonsense. They're colonizing Iraq.

The units are called "Task Force Liberty" now. I suppose the logic behind that propaganda device is to weld together "liberty" and "your son/daughter/neighbor just died needlessly" in the minds of readers first learning of the breaking news.

Only if one is persistent will the unit eventually be ID'd for the public. I like to know the units affected because I work for one, and I want to keep tally of those who have just arrived to Iraq, such as the 3ID, which was involved in the initial assault but has no experience, until now, w/the guerilla warfare that Iraq has become.

Goddamnit!
the U.S. pursued the Vietnam War for 10 years. Iraq has now gone on for two.
If we let it, it will become 10...or more.
It took five years -- half the war -- to build a significant anti-war movement that included millions of mainstream type people.....we can't afford to let it take that long again....

the Afganistan war is STILL ongoing..and the BIG TIME poppy crop (heroin) will only fuel bush* MAD war there.....THREE YEARS...and TWO different bloody wars...soon to morph into a third war and fourth war (Syria and Iran)...with several other bush* wars brewing (Lebonan, Pakistan, Palestine, North Korea....and more)


bush* decided to HIT THE HORNETS NEST by crusading through the Middle East...and NOW, the hornets are swarming EVERYWHERE....

and all you can do is pray it won't be you next.

happened in Lebanon under the Reagan administration when over 250 US military was killed and Reagan turned tail and cut out.

it was about...."spreading democracy through the region not WMDs"

they will lie and lie until the sheep with the blinders on forget what they are being lied to about....sad.

and the neocants never mention the #s of brave troops that have died or have been maimed or the amount of us $$ it has taken.... Its about spreading democracy at any cost http://icasualties.org/oif/default.aspx

***a picture worth many sad words that our press is spineless to show***

and what about that bastion of democracy Afghanistan making out pretty well with that Poppy crop it turns out http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&e=2&u=/ap/us_drug_report

and one more domestic item from the news.... Social Security is falling, Social Security is falling... said the chick(bush) silly bush that is not Social Security thats Medicare!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=7&u=/ap/20050305/ap_on_go_co/medicare_costs

bush = joke unfortunately the jokes on us

**edited for spelling**

when they try to calm down? The very paranoia of the term is incredible; you can almost hear a stark raving lunatic sitting down on the curb saying "that's alright, that's alright, just get a grip, it's gonna be fine".

And as if that's not creepy enough, the attempt to have warm fuzzy acts of niceness used as descriptions of armed occupation and counterinsurgency is enough to make one's head spin.

After Martha Stewart, after Michael Jackson, after Primate Keeper Mauled: When Chimps Attack '05.

God, how I despise the media.

They are not really providing the news, so by definition, they shouldn't be called "media."

I think we need a new name. What were they called in the USSR, fascist Spain/Italy, and nazi Germany?

PS Their bread and butter is commercials. If I lived in the US, I would avoid purchasing sponsors' products and go to the source...the farmer. It shouldn't be too difficult to avoid all processed foods, and it would be healthier to boot.

I was raised on it... they always called it "what the bad, other guys without the free press do."

Propaganda, it is.

That's what I'll call them from now on.

why is a body count maintained at DU for US soldiers only ?

nobody cares to count the iraqis ? is it because "they are not of us ?"

don't forget that those soldiers are a volunteer force ..... while the iraqis never asked for this.

The Iraqi Body Count gets its share of coverage as well, from several different sites. Here are three.

http://www.whodies.com/dies_ir_civilians.html

http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/#count

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Estimated iraqi count is 20 times the official count !!!!

How come they don't know for sure ? don't iraqi hospitals keep records?

and the antibiotics stocked, let alone keeping records maintained. When we leveled Fallujah, where so many Iraqis died, the hospital had to be vacated because the US overran it, looking for weapons. When reporters try to get an Iraqi body count, they tend to be shot at/killed by the US military.

Note Tommy Franks' comment at the top of this webpage:

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

"We don't do body counts," meaning, parenthetically, neither should anyone else, if they value their life.

So, we must rely on published reports. Obviously, the death toll is grossly undercounted, but for the sake of accuracy, newspaper articles are what the Iraqi death count is based up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html

<snip>

100,000 Civilian Deaths Estimated in Iraq

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 29, 2004; Page A16

One of the first attempts to independently estimate the loss of civilian life from the Iraqi war has concluded that at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians may have died because of the U.S. invasion.

The analysis, an extrapolation based on a relatively small number of documented deaths, indicated that many of the excess deaths have occurred due to aerial attacks by coalition forces, with women and children being frequent victims, wrote the international team of public health researchers making the calculations.


Pentagon officials say they do not keep tallies of civilian casualties, and a spokesman said yesterday there is no way to validate estimates by others. The spokesman said that the past 18 months of fighting in Iraq have been "prosecuted in the most precise fashion of any conflict in the history of modern warfare," and that "the loss of any innocent lives is a tragedy, something that Iraqi security forces and the multinational force painstakingly work to avoid."

Previous independent estimates of civilian deaths in Iraq were far lower, never exceeding 16,000. Other experts immediately challenged the new estimate, saying the small number of documented deaths upon which it was based make the conclusions suspect.

,,,, The actual Lancet article put the estimated deaths at 100,000 with the real possibility of the actual number being closer to 200,000 deaths. The MAJORITY of those deaths were at US hands.

1508. I haven't the words.

I weep for the individual losses, and rage against all.

for Rummy to sign. Can just see the old fart complaining that his hand hurts as he scrawls "Rummy" at the bottom of each. Bastards.