Questions Grow Over Shooting Incident as Italian Reporter Returns Home

I like this part
Scolari told Sky Italia TV: "I have said so many times, war is madness. Probably it was scared boys who fired, it wasn't their fault, it was the fault of those that sent them there." Scolari also said the shootout took place 700 meters from the airport, after they had already passed other road blocks. At a press conference he said: "Giuliana and the other people who were there told me that the American attack was completely unjustified. They had alerted the whole chain of command, the Italian troops were awaiting them at the airport. And yet, they fired 300, 400 rounds. Why?"]
Can anyone say PNAC

...think about it. I can predict what will happen next....a short invesigation, and some PFC's life will be ruined forever.

Rummy will keep his job another day. Tragic :(

Saw that on Olberman last night, I think.

the Colosseum in Rome to welcome her home. This is how big a deal this lady is in Italy.

Most of Italy is anit-war. I hope they demand some answers and I am very glad Sgrena lived to tell her story.

if they are firing 300 to 400 rounds outside the chain of command. I am pretty sure this is not an isolated incident and it is why the death toll of innocent Iraqis is now well above 100,000.

If this were any other country, its leaders would be facing war crimes tribunals followed by hanging, just as at Nuremberg.

Bush and Rummie have destroyed America's military in ways that bin Laden could have only dreamed of. I bet he's sitting in a cave/bunker somewhere, laughing his ass off.

That cave/bunker stuff turned out to be a figment of someones imagination.

Don

I am sure he is living very comfortably.

Qatar has been my 1st guess, since we gave Osama that helicopter ride out of Tora Bora.

I've always believed that bin Laden has been in the loving arms of his family in Saudi Arabia since September 10, LOL! Why would he plot such a thing and then sit in Afghanistan waiting for the U.S. to bring it on?

:headbang:
rockation

if the released journalist learned something from her insurgent captors that the military didn't want her to report.

This is just sickening. We kill jounralists we don't like and say it was an accident and the world just accepts whatever we say. We have a bunch a madmen among our beloved troops and with them anything goes. They are murderers operating under the protection of our military who are themselves fighting an unnecessary, unjustified, and illegal war.

will we acknowledge our grave sin, and fly our flag at half staff? It seems an appropriate gesture to me, but considering that the Bush gang isn't sorry, and won't spend more than 3 or 4 minutes investigating, I guess that's out of the question.

I stay too confused to function anymore, that much this administration has done. I wish somebody would help me back to reality, as ugly as it is.

"the world just accepts whatever we say"

Now the Rightards that's a different story they will believe ANYTHING

that comes out of this mis-administration.

of the new US policy.
"Shoot First."

the absolute assumption will be that this was an accident.

If they mention these questions at all, it will be in the context of diagnosing the exact mental illness of the questioner. Is it simple paranoia? Is the madness the product of Bush hatred? Is this another case of Michael Mooreitis?

Don't question the party line, or everyone will think we are crazy. I am suspicious of ANYONE who suggest such crap after four years of Bush. Either they have not been paying attention to what has been going on around them or they are full of shit. Either way, I have little use for that type. They remind me of Republicans.

Don

If they wanted her dead, why ain't she dead? It's not like
they don't have the firepower.

It looks like either it really was an example of disorder in
the chain of command or else they not only are evil, but
incompetent at being evil.

If someone had witnessed or filmed a soldier putting a bullet into the head of an Italian reporter it would have been the beginning of WW III. I would say that after 300 to 400 shots this lady ain't dead for lack of trying though. Sounds like she lived through the death scene from "Bonnie and Clyde".

Don

the full details of the "mission"; after all it would be
very important that it be an "accident".

Sgrena told RaiNews24 television Saturday a "hail of bullets" rained down on the car taking her to safety at Baghdad airport, along with three secret service agents, killing one of them.

"I was speaking to (agent) Nicola Calipari (...) when he leant on me, probably to protect me, and then collapsed and I realized he was dead," said Sgrena, who was being questioned on Saturday by two Italian magistrates.

"They continued shooting and the driver couldn't even explain that we were Italians. It was really horrible," she added.

Sgrena, who was hospitalized with serious wounds to her left shoulder and lung after arriving back in Rome Saturday before noon, said she was "exhausted because of what happened above all in the last 24 hours".

--------

It does sound like orders might have been given to take it out,
400 bullets is a few.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Their incompetence is obvious. They were incompetent before 9/11. They were incompetent going into the Iraq invasion. They are incompetent now. This is what happens when you let ideology and hubris guide your decision making.

That's a given at this point. :)

For more see any installment of The Daily Show

by the time they realize she was alive it was too late.

Had it be a family of Iraqi's we would never have heard a word about it.

RC

AAR outlet when this story broke, and his immediate reaction was that it was "of course a tragic accident."

I know he's to the center of most on DU, but I think his reaction is pretty typical. Nothing to see here. Move along.

snip>
Sgrena's partner Pier Scolari, speaking outside the hospital where she is being treated, accused U.S. forces of recklessness.

"I hope the Italian government does something because either this was an ambush, as I think, or we are dealing vith imbeciles or terrorized kids who shoot at anyone," he said.

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7816127&pageNumber=1

Which is more likely - terrorized kids who shoot at anyone, or the US attempting an assination without bothering to make it look like someone else did it?

we've been pay'n attention the last for years... and if everything is an ACCIDENT what does the trigger men have to fear.

wake up

peace

Given the fact that the survivors were given medical care once the shooting was over makes it pretty clear to me that the shooters were not a trained assassination squad.

Whether this unit was put in the area and deliberately kept out of the loop is another question entirely.

Scolari told Sky Italia TV: "I have said so many times, war is madness. Probably it was scared boys who fired, it wasn't their fault, it was the fault of those that sent them there." Scolari also said the shootout took place 700 meters from the airport, after they had already passed other road blocks. At a press conference he said: "Giuliana and the other people who were there told me that the American attack was completely unjustified. They had alerted the whole chain of command, the Italian troops were awaiting them at the airport. And yet, they fired 300, 400 rounds. Why?"]


VS:

The U.S. military said the car she was riding in after her release was speeding as it approached a coalition checkpoint in western Baghdad on its way to the airport. Soldiers shot into the engine block after trying to warn the driver to stop by "hand and arm signals, flashing white lights and firing warning shots," the military said.


So, gee, I wonder who is telling the truth? :eyes:

Why would they think they needed to be cleared again?

Every time something like this happens, we read that the car that was fired on "sped toward the coalition checkpoint and ignored frantic hand signals and warning shots." Now, who in Iraq, whether Iraqis or others, is unaware of the fact that American troops will fire on them if they get too close or ignore hand signals to stop, and even warning shots?

I mean, how can we believe that they raced toward a group of armed American soldiers and ignored all stop signals?

On the other hand, there was a journalist in the car, and our soldiers do have a tendency to shoot journalists.

I actually happen to believe, though, that it was just scared, jumpy American kids shooting at anything that moved. I think a lot of these things are just that.

And just as cops will always close ranks after a bad shooting and claim the victim did something to justify the shooting, so will the mlitary spokesmen. So we have a rash of insane people jumping into cars and racing toward groups of armed Americans, ignoring every attempt to signal them to slow down. You know how likely that is.

On edit: Some of the other threads on this topic have comments from the journalist and her husband that suggest very strongly that it wasn't just jumpy, trigger-happy troops firing at anything that moved, but rather a deliberate ambush, targeting her for being a left-wing journalist. Apparently her husband has said she had information the Americans didn't want her to publicize. I am thinking maybe info about napalm and other banned weapons being used in Fallujah.

if the driver is alive, and presumably unhurt (i haven't seen news either way on that) then they had to be aiming specifically at sgrena. if they were trying to stop teh car, they'd shoot the driver, or hit the driver accidentally while shooting at the engine...

but sgrena got hit and the secret service agent protecting her got killed...

they were shooting into the back of the car. aiming RIGHT at her.

Plus it appears that perhaps the car had already passed one checkpoint on the airport road, so the assertion that we had no idea who this was may be bullshit. The 'jumpy kids' theory can't live with the 'approaching checkpoint theory' as it requires that the 'jumpy kids' are not aware of the car and its occupants. If the car has already cleared one checkpoint on the road, information about this car is already known by the next checkpoint. Duh.

As others have pointed out, the assertion that the car was 'speeding toward the checkpoint and ignoring hand signals to stop' is TOTAL BULLSHIT. Why would this car, driven by Italian security professionals, be driving recklessly at high speeds to wards a checkpoint and ignoring all orders to stop? Huh? THAT IS TOTAL BULLSHIT! Could be a chain of ignorance not my fault cover-up lie though.

Others have questioned assassination based on the survival of the assumed target. Perhaps a good point, or perhaps the target is dead, or perhaps what we have here is a bungled assassination attempt.

Questions of relevance: who did the shooting? Seems to be some confusion regarding if the shooters were a patrol on the road or the soldiers manning the checkpoint. Certainly this is a simple plain fact.

Was the car cleared through a checkpoint on the airport road prior to the shooting? Was the car cleared at any checkpoints at all prior to the shooting? Was the car in communication with military authoritues at any point prior to the shooting? If the car had already been cleared, assertions that our forces had no knowledge of the car or its occupants are highly suspect.

How many shots were fired and where did they strike the car?

yet, if one wanted to stop a car, one would think the driver was the one you would shoot first. If it was random shooting was was the driver the only one not hurt? Guy is pretty lucky, I'd say.

I'm willing to be some clumsy agent is going to pay with his life for botching it up.

If the US wanted to shut Sgrena up, they did not finish the job, and now things are getting heated. I'm really glad to read that she is surrounded by relative and military police.

I would not be surprised if something "happened" to her in the next few days, before she has a chance to get better and start talking (or start writing).

At this very moment, Washington is sweating bullets. They hope Sgrena will not regain her wits, long enough to tell details about what happened.

They know damn well the US will be implicated.

and she is talking plenty. It's too late.

also injured, one so severely that he did not fly out. We may have another death on our hands and this time the Italians will put it out. This is inexcusable madness.

A few snippets from two of the most solid journalists around, Chris Floyd and Dahr Jamail:


This from Chris Floyd:
Last month, it was widely reported that the Pentagon is considering a similar program in Iraq. What was not reported, however -- except in the Iraqi press -- is that at least one pro-occupation death squad is already in operation. Just days after the Pentagon plans were revealed, a new militant group, "Saraya Iraqna," began offering big wads of American cash for insurgent scalps -- up to $50,000, the Iraqi paper Al Ittihad reports. "Our activity will not be selective," the group promised. In other words, anyone they consider an enemy of the state will be fair game.

Strangely enough, just as it appears that the Pentagon is establishing Gladio-style operations in Iraq, there has been a sudden rash of terrorist attacks on outrageously provocative civilian targets, such as hospitals and schools, the Guardian reports. Coming just after national elections in which the majority faction supported slates calling for a speedy end to the American occupation, the shift toward high-profile civilian slaughter has underscored the "urgent need" for U.S. forces to remain on the scene indefinitely, to provide security against the ever-present terrorist threat. Meanwhile, the Bushists continue constructing their long-sought permanent bases in Iraq: citadels to protect the oil that incoming Iraqi officials are promising to sell off to American corporations -- and launching pads for new forays in geopolitical domination.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/FLO502B.html
And this from Dahr Jamail:
He told me he has watched the military use bulldozers to push the soil into piles and load it onto trucks to carry away. This was done in the Julan and Jimouriya quarters of the city, which is of course where the heaviest fighting occurred during the siege, as this was where resistance was the fiercest. “At least two kilometers of soil were removed,” he explained, “Exactly as they did at Baghdad Airport after the heavy battles there during the invasion and the Americans used their special weapons.”

He explained that in certain areas where the military used “special munitions” 200 square meters of soil was being removed from each blast site.In addition, many of his friends have told him that the military brought in water tanker trucks to power blast the streets, although he hadn’t seen this himself. “They went around to every house and have shot the water tanks,” he continued, “As if they are trying to hide the evidence of chemical weapons in the water, but they only did this in some areas, such as Julan and in the souk (market) there as well.”


“In the mornings I found Fallujah empty, as if nobody lives in it,” he’d said, “Even poisonous gases have been used in Fallujah-they used everything-tanks, artillery, infantry, poison gas. Fallujah has been bombed to the ground. Nothing is left.”
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives//000173.php#m...

A few snips:

Italian newspapers warned the government against a cover-up given Berlusconi's cozy relationship with Washington. The US ambassador to Rome was summoned to the PM's office to explain the friendly fire incident.

<snip>

Berlusconi, who called on US ambassador Mel Sembler to explain the shooting, said 51-year-old secret service officer Nicola Calipari died trying to protect Sgrena from bullets fired by US soldiers at the checkpoint.

"We are petrified and dumbfounded by this fatality," he said.

"It is a pity. This was a joyful moment which made all our co-citizens happy, which has been transformed into profound pain by the death of a person who behaved so bravely," the prime minister added.

Italy has 3 000 troops in the US-led coalition in Iraq and the death will cast a new shadow over the prime minister's support for the United States.

<snip>

" The Americans nearly killed her," Sgrena's companion, Pier Scolari, was quoted as saying by Italy's ANSA news agency.

The chief editor of Sgrena's left-wing newspaper Il Manifesto Gabriele Polo meanwhile branded Calipari's death a "murder".

"He was hit in the head," he said.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,6119,2-10-1460_1671943,00.html

of CNN and his recent resignation due to his remarks. Anything is possible with this secretive administration and control of information flow.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6490-2005Feb7.html

I'm just being a wise ass, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I'm sure the details we do not know yet are even more intriguing.

It would have to be made either out of the country or by a VERY brave US producer.

it was, since the had gone through other road blocks where they had to be ID'd I would think. I wonder who exactly her captures were, evidently whoever gave the order (if one was given) didn't want it out.

How in the name of decency could our troops not have been aware of who was in that car and the importance of the occasion?

I just find it incredibly difficult to believe that with all the preparations beforehand, those soldiers were somehow left out of the loop. Excuse me? 700 meters from the airport. You can bet your butt that they are procedurally informed of every important vehicle and/or occupants of said vehicle that come within 2 miles of the airport.

Who the hell was responsible on the U.S. side for ensuring this woman's safety and the safety of her companions? It is beyond the scope of imagination to believe that the negotiator did not include the U.S. in the itinerary.

This whole thing stinks. Italy knows it. The world knows it. But the U.S. official response will be to deny, deny, deny accountability.

Sheesh, they will come up with any excuse for their actions, won't they?

I listened to the story that the US claims that about what happenened and then to an interview with her, and I don't think the US version stands up. Without knowing all the details, I can only say that I can only imagine that our soldiers are like a bunch of scared cowboys with guns blazing thinking that anyone driving towards them, even at 2 miles per hour is a danger to them and they just shoot and ask questions later.

I don't trust Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi any more than I trust Bush's motives on anything. I think the only reason he is greeting her and playing up this is because he knows how the Italian people feel about the War in Iraq and they want Italy out of there...He's trying to save face and calm the Italian people down.

I hope the Italian people raise their voices like the Spaniards did and insist that Berlusconi listen to them....

:eyes: So I'd say the Bushies are sweating figuring how to spin this.

Most Americans aren't going to care about this...but we here on the Internet are going to keep it going, and we have to hope EuroPress will not let this go. I don't think we can count on the Brits...Blair is working to hard to shore up his own rep. at this point. :shrug: Maybe the "Guardian" will do some investigating though.

I've seen the recent numbers of American casualties from the Iraqi-Fiasco, but does anyone have the numbers and statistics on devastation resulting from "friendly" fire? Are US troops still letting off steam?

Eason Jordan was right!


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1431436,00.html

Outrage as US soldiers kill hostage rescue hero

Bush promises Italian leader a full investigation

Philip Willan Rome
Sunday March 6, 2005
The Observer

-snip-

Sgrena, 56, a journalist for the Communist newspaper Il Manifesto, was hit in the shoulder when US soldiers opened fire on the car she was travelling in as it approached a checkpoint less than a mile from Baghdad airport. The Italian secret service officer who had negotiated her release was killed as he shielded her from the gunfire. Two of his colleagues were also hurt.

Berlusconi prides himself on his close personal friendship with President George Bush, but he was grim-faced when he told reporters that someone would have to take responsibility 'for such a grave incident'.

The US Army claimed the Italians' vehicle had been seen as a threat because it was travelling at speed and failed to stop at the checkpoint despite warning shots being fired by the soldiers. A State Department official in Washington said the Italians had failed to inform the military of Sgrena's release.

Italian reconstruction of the incident is significantly different. Sgrena told colleagues the vehicle was not travelling fast and had already passed several checkpoints on its way to the airport. The Americans shone a flashlight at the car and then fired between 300 and 400 bullets at if from an armoured vehicle. Rather than calling immediately for assistance for the wounded Italians, the soldiers' first move was to confiscate their weapons and mobile phones and they were prevented from resuming contact with Rome for more than an hour.

-snip-

more...

n/t

There is so much to this story. I just wish it could be told here in the US, I'd like to believe people would care and turn off their TV's and not shop for at least a day.

now at 3.94

U.S. Used Mustard gas, Nerve gas, and Burning Chemicals on Iraqis in Fallujah.

Seems it was reported some time back. If this is true which I hope to hell it is not, this is the reason she was targeted. She was going to expose it.

This was close enough to the airport to be a perimeter checkpoint. At the very least these soldiers should have been made aware of Sgrena's transit towards their location. And yet the US says Italian officials didn't inform them of Sgrena's departure.

Well, what did we think? After three months as a hostage she wasn't going to hang around and sight-see, was she?

If it's true Italy didn't inform anyone in the US, and that's very hard to believe, then the US dropped the ball too -- big time. I mean, think about it. If you were the Sec of State and learned that this Italian journalist had just been released, wouldn't you really start to wonder if your phone wasn't soon ringing off the hook from Rome?? So you get proactive. You make a few calls yourself, because you know Sgrena's exit details will have to be coordinated with the proper people on the ground in Iraq. No brainer.

Now I'm just going play devil's advocate a moment.

We all know it's easy to mis-gauge how fast headlights are coming towards you at night when you're at a standstill. Is it possible the quick pass of a flashlight revealed dark-haired, swarthy male passengers (I know this is a generalization and we don't know if the Intelligence guys fit that description, but bear with me), and that, along with a lack of information and the perceived forward motion of the car, triggered an unfortunate chain of events?

Finally, putting my :tinfoilhat: on -- where's the damn car?!?!

they had alerted the 'whole chain of command'.


They had alerted the whole chain of command, the Italian troops were awaiting them at the airport. And yet, they fired 300, 400 rounds.

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000827944

Who think that those "poor terrorized boys" immediately rescued the wounded people and rendered aid, so how could they possibly have intended to kill them?

bottom of page of WP while Assad's statement on Lebanon withdrawl (which was already in the works) has front page headline as though Bush can take credit for what is happening in Lebanon.

I ask again, how long will the world just turn away from holding the US accountable for anything?

I'm sure that if I could bring myself to watch Faux I would still be hearing about a car speeding madly through a checkpoint despite lights and hand signals and commands to stop.

It's sickening, but I think the U.S. will not be held accountable for anything until after we lose the next world war.

"Sgrena told colleagues the vehicle was not travelling fast and had already passed several checkpoints on its way to the airport. The Americans shone a flashlight at the car and then fired between 300 and 400 bullets at if from an armoured vehicle. Rather than calling immediately for assistance for the wounded Italians, the soldiers' first move was to confiscate their weapons and mobile phones and they were prevented from resuming contact with Rome for more than an hour."

They had this all planned out and I bet if the other secret service agent was not on the phone with the Italian PM as the event was taking place THEN the American story would be the only thing know because it would have ended differently.

doesn't it?

The US military has been caught in yet another lie.

It will be interesting to watch how Italy responds.

We know that bushie doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks.

When you assassinate someone, you put a goddamn bullet in their head, not take them into custody.

and that bullet may have been aimed at the journalist.

Since the US military is lying -- we are left to speculate -- and if this makes the US military look like they are assassinating journalists -- so be it. They lie and we have to make judgments on the fragments of information we get.

In this case I believe the victim.

I refer you to comics artist and journalist Joe Sacco's fine reportage (in comics form) from Iraq last month for the Guardian:

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2005/03/02/sacco.pdf

...all of the people in the car survived--except the man (Nicola Calipari) who was shielding Sgrena's body.

It seems like they were deliberately targeting her. If he had not shielded her, with his own body, she would most likely be dead.

Also--if you were going to shoot a car for failing to stop at checkpoints and speeding--wouldn't you shoot the driver in an effort to stop the car?

Sgrena and Calipari were not in the front seat, correct?

a high-power rifle will punch through an engine block, stopping any vehicle dead in its tracks.

But they always shoot the occupants instead.

Bet that's the reason behind the "high speed" bullshit.

"We were shooting at the driver, but the car was going faster than we could swing our guns."

ummm, I made up the above quote. I wouldn't be surprised to see something very similar in the MSM soon.

Sgrena, however, told Italian prosecutors on Saturday that there was no checkpoint, the Italian news agency ANSA reported.
It was not a checkpoint, but a patrol that fired after having shone a floodlight at us," she told ANSA.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/krwashbureau/20050305/ts_krwashbureau/_bc_usiraq_italy_wa_1

Was he driving on the "standard" side of the vehicle that most in that area would be, or perhaps was this a foreign vehicle on the opposite side. Perhaps someone "targeting" the driver could have been aiming at the side opposite the driver, thinking that was where the driver was sitting. Someone else here says the vehicle was missing. Establishing which side of the vehicle he was driving on might help establish whether he was targeted in "stopping" the vehicle or not. Another reason to be suspicious if the vehicle is missing.

(let's hope that their newspapers aren't like ours )

Italian newspapers warned the government against a cover-up given Berlusconi's cozy relationship with Washington. The US ambassador to Rome was summoned to the PM's office to explain the friendly fire incident. US President George W Bush later called Berlusconi to express his regrets, the White House said, pledging a "full investigation" into the shooting. Sgrena, 56, underwent lung surgery after the shooting, which happened as she was being driven to a US base, her newspaper said.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1671943,00.html

how this asswipe always REGRETS these tragedies?

What does he reget? that she wasn't killed?

World famous lung surgeon, Dr. Jack Kevorkian, will be flown to the US base especially for this tricky medical procedure.

:spank:

damn that was one of those painful kind of laughs.

She should be safe.

to make sure that they don't let Berlusconi and Bush get away with this. There are fair and tough questions that need to be asked and answered. I hope the Italians and their media aren't sheep like most Americans are.

the occupation? Should we not have made sure she made it safely out of the country and to home?

I'll welcome you to DU, but I already have some issues with doing so.

ask Robert Novak about White House "full investigations".

I had missed hearing "300 and 400 bullets". I had read terms like a volley of bullets...but in my mind that was...10 or 20. Bad enough, but more fitting with the possibility that the soldiers had messed up, had thought there was a threat. The US reports made it sound like they were just trying to shoot to stop the car.

Hundreds of bullets at a CAR that is not firing at you does not seem consistent with nervous kids stopping a perceived threat.

Not that I am any expert at either self-defense or assassination, but that gives me such a sick feeling. May the truth come out. I have a feeling the world will be listening to Sgrena...not just about this incident but other truths she has to tell.

Either U.S. soldiers are exceptionally trigger-happy or they REALLY need a better way of alerting vehicles to stop or be riddled with bullets. It is probably both.

Unfortunately, car bombs are also very routine. Why do you think we don't get proper civilian casualty numbers?

He said he witnessed cars being shot at and innocent people being killed.

It was common in that invasion too.

He also said they set up checkpoints sometimes at night and where people would not normally stop.

"When The Associated Press in Baghdad asked the U.S. military to see the vehicle on Saturday, the military said it didn't know where it was."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20050306/ap_on_re_eu/italy_iraq_hostage_reconstruction


They must be getting very riled up in Italy.

On the one hand you have a very large and effective anti-war movement.

On the other hand you have a lot of Italians that respect a strong and aggressive leadership.

Let that leadership be seen as acting as weak puppets and the Italian people will erupt in a movement for change.

The threshold for that is much, much lower for it in Italy than it is here.

This is the story to watch imo.

If there were any "special orders" regarding that car and if that comes out all hell will break loose.

Outrage, pure and simple. I want to see the car! Did it disappear into the night? I think not.

Oh and by the way, all hell is going to break loose, with or without the gd' car.

invasion & occupation of Iraq.

We're not talking a "fringe group" or even a "little majority" in Italy; we're talking 90% of the population that has always opposed the invasion & occupation of Iraq...and they aren't any happier about it now.

Hitler was a strong and aggressive leader, too.

(my bumper-sticker)

such as it is, is that while most people in Italy are, to one degree or another, in the anti-war camp many Italians will concede a lot of discretion to a strong leader.

Let this "strongman" be seen as being played for a fool and disrespected and things will get very ugly, very fast for him.

"Taking it to the streets" is not just a catch phrase over there.

The people can, quite literally, shut the country down if and when they get incensed enough.

Party loyalty means less over there and the gov't of Italy could find itself with few friends in a very short order.

Just my 2 cents.

I really wish here in the USA we the people more understood our responsibility to act out against blatant gov't BS.

There's more to getting a good gov't than just voting for a representative. We have strong limits to just how democratic a process that is as we live in a republic.

It's our rights to free speech that need to be used in order to spur our representatives to do the right thing.


Every post here is a small blow for better government. Pile it on. :)

n/t

"Rather than calling immediately for assistance for the wounded Italians, the soldiers' first move was to confiscate their weapons and mobile phones and they were prevented from resuming contact with Rome for more than an hour."

One of the lessons of a successful coverup (from Abu Grhaib) is "always get the cellphones".

Considering we turned over sovereignty in June (Let Freedom Reign), and they had their big election 1-1/2 months ago, blue fingers and all:

1) Why should the Italians have to inform the US forces of the release. Shouldn't they have been working through the Iraqi government, since they are now a sovereign, democratic nation.

2) And considering the above, why are US troops manning checkpoints on public roadways? Shouldn't the Iraqi forces be doing this, since they are now they are now a sovereign, democratic nation.

Guess I'm just dumb, but it sure smells like an occupation (still) to me.

And it smells that way to me, too, Loindelrio: occupation in all its rotten putrescence.

...the release of a left-wing journalist; then being devastated as mid-Champagne, he learned of the shooting. Berlusconi owns the right-wing press in Italy, correct?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven, and has the Bush administration's and maybe Berlusconi's fingerprints all over it.

Now, since the target, journalist Sgrena, apparently mistakenly survived, they will have to discredit her. Just wait.

b_b

has gotten ahead on this story and the Italian gov't has to play catch up before it can even think of trying to steer it.

This is what Bushco avoids at all costs here in the US.

Freed Italian hostage says US shooting was not justified.
Its current average rating is 3.82 with 115 vote(s).

Looks like the story is being voted down - what, someone doesn't like what they are reading here?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=afp/italyiraqhostage
snip/
In Paris, journalists' rights panel Reporters sans frontieres (Reporters Without Borders) called on the United Nations (news - web sites) to conduct an urgent probe into the shooting incident.

...let's get it over 4!

How bad a situation do we have to have before the American press is not a half-step behind (or worse, in march step with) Bushco? If it can happen in Italy, why not here? Or maybe I should be asking, why are we not out in the streets like the Italians?

I'm ready.

b_b

:dem:

"The Americans and Italians knew about (her) car coming,"
Pier Scolari said on leaving Rome's Celio military hospital
where Sgrena is to undergo surgery following her return
home.

"They were 700 meters (yards) from the airport, which
means that they had passed all checkpoints."

The shooting late Friday was witnessed by Prime Minister
Silvio Berlusconi's office which was on the phone with one of
the secret service agents, said Scolari. "Then the US
military silenced the cellphones," he
charged.

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=38029

she was released. We know that the "Death Squad" master was NOT sleeping on this hot one and had no intentions of letting her out of the country alive with her Iraqi war stories.

What is that fucking smell around here?

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=38054

Well, I guess we're about to find out what that info was.

http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/03/giuliana-sgrena-means-motive-and.html

More bad news for bushco:

Berlusconi personally knew Calipari and the agent's wife
worked in his Palazzo Chigi office. Calipari had worked on
previous hostage release cases in Iraq "He was an
extraordinary man," said Berlusconi.

http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/03/italian-reporter-survives-likely.html

ROME - The companion of freed Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena on Saturday leveled serious accusations at US troops who fired at her convoy as it was nearing Baghdad airport, saying the shooting had been deliberate.

Giuliana had information, and the US military did not want her to survive.

Pier Scolari
"The Americans and Italians knew about (her) car coming," Pier Scolari said on leaving Rome's Celio military hospital where Sgrena is to undergo surgery following her return home.

"They were 700 meters (yards) from the airport, which means that they had passed all checkpoints."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0305-05.htm

"Everyone knows that the Americans don't want hostages to be freed by negotiations, and for that reason, I don't see why I should rule out that I was their target," Sgrena told Sky Italia news channel on Sunday.

"Hour after hour, Washington's version given by the state department immediately after the incident has begun to unravel. "The theory that an absence of coordination in Baghdad between the two allied commands and excessive secrecy by the Italians about their (rescue) mission led to the shooting near the airport, has faded."

"The Italian government said it had informed the United States about the very delicate operation which was about to begin. "And the presence of an American colonel at Baghdad airport along with the Italian officers who were waiting for Sgrena and her liberators, demonstrates that the operation was being conducted in harmony," the newspaper said.
It said however that a ranson was "almost certainly" paid to the kidnappers, even though any payment was "very probably" opposed by the Americans.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1672095,00.html


Deployed military need not worry about getting home, officials said, since a small portion of the airport has been held for military flights. “We have an agreement with the Ministry of Transportation to allow us to occupy a portion of the airport to allow us to bring in military aircraft,” Betack said. “We have a security perimeter around the airport by coalition forces, and the Iraqi government has hired a private security firm to put checkpoints and security on the airport.”
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2004/09/iraq-040907-arnews01.htm

Well, so what? The U.S. is famous for paying large sums of money to unsavory characters in order to implement its policies; why shouldn't Italy pay for the release of its citizens?

Funny how it just "happened" that there were troops that arrived just in time to shoot this vehicle taking this famous woman to the airport. We are supposed to believe that an event of this magnitude wasn't carefully orchestrated?

Either the U.S. doesn't give a rat's a** about Italy's citizens and didn't care if she had protection or not, or else it was a hit. This is a no-win situation.

I had nightmares about it last night.

This seems to be the spin: cast doubt. It's all over the
US media, but rare in the rest of the World.

ROME Mar 5, 2005 — No clear picture had formed Saturday of what happened a day earlier when an Italian hostage was freed by secret agents only to be injured in a deadly shooting at the hands of U.S. soldiers on the road to Baghdad airport. Circumstances surrounding the Friday operation to release journalist Giuliana Sgrena from a month's captivity by Iraqi insurgents remained as murky as the tidbits that emerged in two earlier cases involving Italians kidnapped and then set free in Iraq.

Neither the Italian authorities nor Sgrena, a 56-year-old reporter for communist daily Il Manifesto, gave details of the operation or said whether ransom was paid.

U.S. military authorities were likewise silent about the shooting tragedy in which Sgrena was hit in the shoulder and the Italian intelligence agent who led negotiations for her freedom, Nicola Calipari, was shot and died in the journalist's arms.

Even the well-connected Italian news agency Apcom noted "very many obscure points in the more or less official reconstructions."

ABC

...provoking a hostile attack with intent to kill her. Has that story been revised or dropped?

....but no, let's hang those fucking US troops who, with blood in their eyes, tried to kill her.

We don't have the facts folks!

...spin. But I'm highly skeptical of the "official lie" of the US government. Why did they have "blood in their eyes"? And don't worry, most of us here have no desire to "hang the troops". We know the "leadership" is to blame. So you won't find many here calling for a couple 20something grunts taking the rap for every bad policy the Bush administration makes. And assassination of journalists is looking to be a standard policy for the BushCo regime.

...have been out of the loop on this story. Please help me get up-to-date with a link or two. Thanks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1286417&mesg_id=1286417

Condolences on your loss.

...it's really sad because I feel as you.....a bunch of kids thrown into that shit-hole war and only trying to survive from day to day and yet they're the monsters.

Wrong, the monsters sit in their big leather chairs in Washington and profit from the war.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

that the US released before this story became a big deal is turning out to be total bullshit.


US troops fire at freed hostage
4 March, 2005

<snip>

The US military in Baghdad confirmed that forces shot at a vehicle and said an investigation had been launched.

"About 2100 <1800 GMT>, a patrol in western Baghdad observed the vehicle speeding toward their checkpoint and attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," it said in a statement.

"When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4320111.stm


Too bad the target lived to tell her story. Now the real facts will come out and the official version is nothing but a pack of lies.

Oh yeah that's right, the US doesn't target anti-war journalists.

BTW: Where are all the US Officials now? They seem awful quiet today.

American soldiers were told to kill her.

They have used it for tobacco and asbestos and global warming.
Delay is denial if you can drag it out long enough, people forget,
people die, new atrocities come along.

They all speak with one voice:

http://news.google.com/news?ned=us&scoring=d&hl=en&ncl=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10647-2005Mar5.html

Just scroll through that and consider where it says "unclear" and where
it says something else.

Sorry, they lied in this story because the Italian Journalist has stated what happened.

And the American Public will never know that "what happened in Baghdad yesterday was a homicide" (quoted for the other story).

It is a magazine in Italy. I searched but can't get through my Italian language barrier. Thanks.

This woman is a great journalist. While she has all the facts about the incident, the rest of the world is going off half-cocked, guessing about the details of what happened at the checkpoint. Im going to reserve judgement.

... he was involved in the negotiations, hence he would have a clearer view of the "bigger picture", would even be able to make better sense than Sgrena of the little snippets of info, etc etc. just asking.