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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:12 PM
Original message
Studies: Interest in Hunting Fading
As a teenager, Bryan Dinkins and his grandfather would go out before dawn on many a winter morning to hunt duck. They would quietly discuss school and life while waiting for the birds.

Dinkins, now 40, hasn't been hunting in six years. He's too busy, he says, and anyway it would take six hours to drive somewhere to hunt ducks in California.

It's a common lament in the new century, a time when urbanization and hectic lives can get in the way of hunting traditions. Hunting now is not just about when to go, but where to go? How much will it cost? And, more than ever, who will go?

"If we think about how the country was explored and developed, it was hunters, it was trappers," said Steve Williams, director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. "If we lost that, I think in some way we lose part of the American character."

more…
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-the-fading-hunt,0,7832682,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Its kindof sad
Despite your personal feelings about hunting ("your" being directed at no one in particular, but everyone who finds hunting objectionable) its sad to lose a part of our heritage. And, I would add, we lose part of our relationship with nature. Its a biological thing with me.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Some heritage is good to lose.
Are you sad about losing slavery as part of our heritage?
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Why is it good to lose?
And I wont even comment on that non sequitur.

Please dont go on about the "brutality" of hunting, unless you're Ghandi. And even he killed living things.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Your post seemed to indicate that any heritage is sad to lose
Sorry if I misunderstood.
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Well
Maybe it was left open to interpretation. My only point is, I wouldnt be here without great grandad and grandad hunting and raising hogs. I dont see hunting as any less ethical today than back then, when it was a matter of starvation.
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. It's hardly a non-sequiter

You asserted that hunting was part of our heritage - which it clearly is - and that it was sad to lose part of our heritage. There were no caveats provided.

S/he merely pointed out that slavery was also part of our heritage. So the valid question is should we be sad to lose something only on the basis that it is part of our heritage ? Lynching is also part of our heritage ...

And there is a difference between killing for subsistence versus pleasure or satisfaction. I'm not making a moral judgment on whether that is right or wrong, killing for nutrition is a fact of nature and one could argue that animals have to derive some inner reward from the act or they likely would die out. However that's different from doing it only for the 'psychological' reward.
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Wow
I would think that anyone responding to a post, in good faith, would understand that when I referenced "heritage", I was not referring to every single act or instance that can be defined as heritage. Sometimes however, I am too gracious in my assumptions.

Nevertheless, it does not follow that while losing a "part" of our heritage is sad, it must also be that losing "all" parts of our heritage is sad, does it? Hence, non sequitur. Oky doky?

And there is a difference between killing for subsistence versus pleasure or satisfaction. I'm not making a moral judgment on whether that is right or wrong, killing for nutrition is a fact of nature and one could argue that animals have to derive some inner reward from the act or they likely would die out. However that's different from doing it only for the 'psychological' reward.

Who kills for pleasure, or satisfaction? Hmm, do you eat meat? Id say, you take a bite of that burger, and presumably enjoy it, you too have killed for pleasure, and satisfaction. Just because you dont have to get your hands dirty doing the actual killing, doesnt mean animals dont die, because of YOUR actions.

What psychological reward for killing are you referring to, and how are you familiar with it. Id like to hear this.
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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Trying to reason
with the "fuck hunting" crowd is like trying to reason with a fundie, it cannot be done.
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Well lets not get carried away.
Perhaps giving the poster a chance to respond might be in order?
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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. You're right,
sorry for jumping the gun.

That has just been my experience in trying to hold a reasonable conversation and getting non-sequiturs and outright slams, without ever getting a real response.

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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
60. You are correct
because there is no logical reason to "hunt" in today's world. Other than you like to kill of course, which is enough for most hunters.

Just like to is no logical reason for any NORMAL person to be or become a fundie.
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. But but
What if you like to eat meat?
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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #60
69. But I think there IS a logical reason to hunt.
When I have a chance to procure my own food, I do so. I am not a vegetarian and I have no plans to be. If one wishes to not eat meat or any animal product, that is fine with me. But they do need to leave ME the fuck alone about how I eat, and how my food comes into my possession.

I do not know anyone who hunts just for the sake of killing. That, to me, is just completely disrespectful to nature. Trophy hunters are not my favorite people, but that's their thing. Freedom of choice. I choose to not kill anything that will not be eaten. I put bugs, mice, and any other critter I find in the house outside.

And "NORMAL" is too subjective for me to determine.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. What don't like the taste of bugs, mice and other critters? nt
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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #71
84. Nope,
bugs are all crunch and no flavor, takes too many mice to make a decent meal.
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. I did not condemn hunting

in general or being carnivorous or omnivorous.

I acknowledge that eating animals is a natural lifestyle and that animals - humans included - are likely to get satisfaction from both the act and the consumption or it would have ceased to be a behavior. There's likely to be differences on what that satisfaction' is depending on sentience and other biological factors.

Nevertheless, killing to live is distinctly different from living to kill which is what non-consumption-oriented slaughter - whose sole purpose is the satisfaction of the killer - is.

Tell me, if someone is killing with no consmption, what is the motivation behind it if not psychological reward - i.e. satisfaction or pleasure ?
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Oh boy
Tell me, if someone is killing with no consmption, what is the motivation behind it if not psychological reward - i.e. satisfaction or pleasure ?

How much pleasure or satisfaction did you derive from the last cockroach you stepped on? Really now, to polarize "killing" as being either for consumption or pleasure is absurd. Critters die for all sorts of reasons. The motivations behind the killing are irrelevant, for the most part.

But onto the bigger question. Is one form of killing more justified than another? The critter is just as dead, and he/she/it doesnt care what your intentions were, or are. Why is the question of motivation even relevant? Wanton destruction of life, I think is where you were going....

I know of no one, save the most heinous of serial killers, who lived to kill, so Im just not following your "non-consumption-oriented slaughter" drift. Were you referring to "sport hunters" (still not sure what that means)?

Would enjoying the "kill" make hunting less ethical than if we didnt enjoy the kill?

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
64. You need to realize that it's being lost, mostly because of dwindling wild
life areas where folks can go to hunt and fish.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. You can enjoy nature without blowing away the wildlife. n/t
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Jeff in Cincinnati Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. But here's the problem
As we keep tearing up habitat to create new Wal-Marts, the wildlife population keeps growing. The number of deer being struck by motorists is through the roof in my part of the county (I'm talking triple-digit increases over the past five years).

Wildlife can die from predation (including humans), through disease and through starvation. You pick.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Bring back the predators!
more big cats, wolves and coyotes, please!

(j/k, if you enjoy hunting, shoot 'em if you got 'em.)
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
80. More predators is right.
Edited on Thu Mar-10-05 08:25 PM by ozone_man
if there is a deer over population problem, it is most likely because we have eliminated the predator population in that area, and I'm not talking about hunters, though many think that only they get to be the ones to hunt deer.

Interesting to see in my state, that coyotes have filled the niche once occupied by wolves, and are very successful at it. The hunters have open season on coyotes, which will accomplish nothing, except perhaps making a super race of coyotes with senses so keen that hunters can no longer get them. Meanwhile, they tend go after the biggest prize deer, so they are actually weakening the deer gene pool. The coyotes go after the weaker deer, strengthening the gene pool. it's self regulating, if they let nature take it's course. If the coyotes or wolves take too many deer, then they starve and their numbers decrease.

Part of the hunting lore that this guy is reminiscent about was from an era when hunting was used to seriously augment the food supply. For the most part, it is no longer that way. He might consider enjoying nature with a camera instead of a gun. Get a nice 300mm lens maybe and see if he can take down that buck on film.

I still fish once in a while, when I am out in a seriously good fishing place, and I do eat the fish. No catch and release for me. I have nothing against responsible hunting or fishing.
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Sure, but can you eat meat without doing so? n/t
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. most money for habitat conservation
comes from hunters.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
90. I know, really...
Take a fucking camera!
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
56. Since many of the animals
which have been hunted are on the brink of extinction, I think it's a good idea to quit now while some of them are still alive.

And we won't even bother discussing the "canned hunts" in which animals are left in cages and shot point blank.

Some wildlife management, especially of deer, is okay, but if we hadn't wiped out the majority of the predators who kept the deer population under control in the first place, we wouldn't even have had to deal with too much of that.

And don't get me started on the issue of steel-jawed leghold traps!

Mankind is still a barbarian species, far more than any other species on the planet. While other animals kill to survive, mankind is the only one who tortures, maims and kills for pleasure.
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. Extinction?
Which animals are you referring to?

This oughta be good.

While other animals kill to survive, mankind is the only one who tortures, maims and kills for pleasure.

We dont kill to survive? This conversation is making me HUNGRY! ;)
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #62
78. Many animals have fallen to extinction or near extinction
"We dont kill to survive? This conversation is making me HUNGRY! ;)"

There is a vast difference between killing an animal for food and for trophy hunting. Most food animals are of the domestic variety--cattle, sheep, pigs, chickens, etc. and not of the wild variety. They are raised for that purpose, and while I am a vegetarian now, I can say I enjoyed meat for the first third of my life.

On the other hand, rather than challenge me about animals which are on the verge of extinction from hunting, it would serve you much better to educate yourself about just this subject, instead of remaining ignorant about the many species and groups which are, indeed, in such a predicament.

The quotes and sources quoted below are, for the most part, either educational sites or government sites. I specifically kept away from certain animal rights' sites because I did not want to obfuscate the discussion.

From the earliest times, hunters have caused the extinction of species. From the Stone Age up to the 18th century, mainly large animals were hunted to extinction. But with the invention of guns, hunters targeted smaller animals and birds. This accelerated the rate of extinction, especially of birds.

Today, in theory, hunting is regulated in most countries, however, it remains a major threat to the survival of many birds and animals. Commercial hunting for ivory, skins, and other products continues to cause the extinction of species. In the 21st century, scientists predict that plant species, such as rare orchids and cacti, will become endangered from hunting and collecting.


http://exchanges.state.gov/forum/vols/vol38/no4/p48.htm

"What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." -- Chief Seattle, Suquamish chief, 1854.

The eloquent words of Chief Seattle echo today throughout the Everglades and Biscayne Bay, where rising human populations impact the native wildlife. Threatened species have low or declining population numbers and if not protected may become endangered. Endangered species are in immediate threat of extinction. Although listed as endangered, the future of these animals is not without hope. The National Park Service has joined with federal, state, and private agencies to form groups active in the preservation of these animals. For more information about preservation programs and how you can help, see Preserving the Parks. The following six animals are endangered species found in the Everglades and Biscayne Bay.

American crocodile (Crocodylus acutus)
Shy and secretive, the crocodile is found only in estuaries in southernmost Florida. It can be distinguished from its cousin, the alligator, by its tapered snout and light color. Habitat loss has reduced the crocodile population to a few hundred, with only a dozen active breeding nests identified.

Florida manatee (Trichechus manatus)
This gentle marine mammal is the largest animal in the parks, growing to about 13 feet in length and weighing up to 2,000 pounds. Herbivorous manatees can eat 10 to 15 percent of their body weight daily in aquatic plants. Loss of habitat and boat collisions have reduced the manatee population to 1,200.

Florida panther (Felis concolor coryi)
The only panther thought to be remaining in the eastern United States, the Florida panther was hunted almost to extinction. Protected from hunting by state law since 1966, this graceful cat is now endangered by shrinking habitat and highway traffic. Only 30 panthers are thought to still survive.

Schaus swallowtail (Heraclides aristodemus)
This brightly colored, yellow-and-brown butterfly is found only in the hardwood hammocks of the upper Florida Keys. It may become extinct due to the destruction of its habitat by development.

Sea turtles (Cheloniidae and Dermochelyidae sp.)
The Atlantic green turtle (Chelonia mydas mydas), Atlantic hawksbill (Eretmochelys imbricata imbricata), Atlantic loggerhead (Caretta caretta caretta), Atlantic ridley (Lepidochelys kempi), and leatherback (Dermochelys coriacea) live in subtropical oceans. Four of these species are endangered and one is threatened due to their being killed for meat and shells, overharvesting of their eggs, and loss of nesting habitat.

Snail kite (Rostrhamus sociabilis plumbeus)
A singular appetite for snails distinguishes this bird of prey. Eating only apple snails, the kite uses its sharply hooked beak to pry the snail from its shell. Due to loss of habitat, the snail kite is one of the rarest birds in America. Several hundred are believed to exist in Florida.


http://www.americanparknetwork.com/parkinfo/ev/flora/extinct.html

When the Europeans came to North America, they carried out practices that were devastating for animal life on the continent.

Previous Indian populations inhabiting North America often hunted animals which later became extinct. However, the limited hunting by the Indians usually did not kill enough of the animals to outweigh the population increases resulting from natural replacement.

Before the Europeans came, between 40-60 million bison lived in North America. As European traders began to hunt heavily for meat and later hides, the bison population dwindled. Now, only a small number of herds remain.

As many as 5 billion passenger pigeons once lived in North America. The Indians and early colonial settlers hunted the pigeons, but not until the late nineteenth century did massive commercial hunting severely reduce the population. The last passenger pigeon died in 1914.


http://library.thinkquest.org/26026/History/effects_on_wildlife_of_europea.html

Unregulated hunting has at various times threatened the existence of some game animals. Prime examples of this occurred in the United States in the 19th century, when egrets were decimated for their plumes, used in millinery. Buffalo herds (see Bison) that once numbered in the millions were also virtually wiped out by hunters intent on profit and enjoyment; by 1895 only 400 buffalo remained in the country. Hunters took their toll on other wildlife as well. Pronghorn, deer, and mountain sheep were decimated to feed the growing population in the West. In the East, waterfowl populations plummeted as hunters armed with cannonlike guns wiped out entire flocks in one shot and then shipped the birds to restaurants to satisfy exotic tastes. Some game birds, such as the passenger pigeon and the heath hen, were hunted into extinction by people who believed the game supply to be infinite.


http://encarta.msn.com/text_761576243__1/Hunting.html


Wolves once roamed almost the entire world north of the equator. This is no longer the case. In North America, gray wolves, also called timber wolves, have been hunted near to extinction in the United States with the exception of Alaska and small populations in Minnesota and Wisconsin. There is still a healthy population in Canada, but only unconfirmed remnant populations are thought to exist today in Mexico. Gray wolves are currently reintroducing themselves naturally in the northern Rocky Mountains and North Cascades. Human efforts over the last few years to reintroduce wolves into the Rocky Mountains have also been successful. In March 1998, 11 Mexican gray wolves were released in eastern Arizona. The range of these wolves once extended from southwest United States to central Mexico.


http://www.zoo.org/educate/fact_sheets/wolf/wolf.htm

Extinction by Hunting
Though hunting is now fairly well regulated by law, historically it was a chief cause of extinction in Southern Appalachia. The first to go were the large mammals. When Europeans first settled here in the late eighteenth century, for example, woodland bison were still plentiful. But hunters quickly learned to ambush them at natural salt licks, where the bison congregated. By 1800 they had become rare. Within a decade or two they were extinct.

Eastern elk, too, once inhabited the forests of Southern Appalachia. Like the woodland bison, the elk sought the salt licks, and, like the bison, there they were relentlessly slaughtered. They were extinct by the start of the Civil War. Elk recently reintroduced to the Smokies are not eastern elk but a non-native variety.

The Southern Appalachians were originally home to two kinds of wolves: the red and the gray. Both were hunters of deer, bison, and elk. As the settlers eliminated their prey, they turned increasingly to farm animals. The result was an escalating war of extermination that lasted until about 1920 when, somewhere deep in the Smokies, the last wolf cry was silenced.

Though driven from the East and in constant retreat, gray wolves maintained substantial refuges away west in the Rockies, in Alaska, and in Canada. But the smaller red wolf, whose range never extended beyond the Southeast, was hunted almost to extinction. By the mid 1970s, there were maybe a hundred red wolves left in the world, mostly in Louisiana and Texas. Many of these could not find mates and had begun breeding with common coyotes, so that the strain was rapidly disappearing. During the 1990s attempts were made to reintroduce red wolves into the Smokies, but some of the wolves wandered repeatedly out of the Park; some succumbed to parvo virus, probably caught from coyotes whose range had expanded to fill the niche left by the wolves; and some lapped up puddles of sweet-tasting antifreeze from parking lots and died in agony as ethylene glycol crystallized in their kidneys. As a result, reintroduction efforts were suspended, and the Smokies are once again empty of wolves.

Nobody knows when (or even if) the eastern cougar disappeared from the Southern Appalachians. Wary hunters, they were themselves hunted mercilessly for over two centuries. Sightings are still sometimes reported, but wildlife officials believe that if there are any big cats here they are released or escaped western cougars, not the native eastern variety.


http://web.utk.edu/~nolt/radio/Exthunt.htm


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newscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Big old bowhunting store in my hometown.
Hunting is alive and well in Middleboro MA.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Gee, this makes me sad.
NOT.

Good riddance. Fuck hunting.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. My sentiments, exactly. n/t
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Vegetarian then?
Your comment really is about putting greater value on one life form over another. Right?
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Yes, I am a vegetarian.
And why exactly does that mean that I put greater value on one life form over another? I put a high value on all animal life forms.
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. I dont think you do.
You simply cannot exist without killing. When was the last time you flushed a spider down the toilet, or smashed a bug on your windsheild, or stepped on something you shouldnt have? I eat what I kill, intentionally, and I dont kill intentionally unless it serves a purpose. Nonetheless, I make no apologies for killing animals. Its biology, and the natural order of things. I just dont presume to be wiser or more ethical than nature.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
50. The fact that living things die does not justify killing for the sake of
Edited on Thu Mar-10-05 06:11 PM by The Stranger
killng. Please. Gandhi ate as low on the food chain as he could, so that other living things could live with him. This absolute black-and-white thinking is like listening to George W. Bush.

(I can't believe I am responding to this.)
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. Yikes
"The fact that living things die does not justify killing for the sake of killng"

Did someone here suggest that it did? If only I knew who it was, why Id just correct them straight away.

Maybe you thought you were making some point by posting that nonsense, and casually attributing it to some phantom poster, but it just didnt work.

I think if you will refer back to my post, you might find that I said specifically, I eat what I kill, intentionally, and I dont kill intentionally unless it serves a purpose. Nonetheless, I make no apologies for killing animals. Its biology, and the natural order of things. I just dont presume to be wiser or more ethical than nature.

Is there anything in those statements that indicates "killing for the sake of killing" is justified, or justifiable?


Gandhi ate as low on the food chain as he could, so that other living things could live with him. This absolute black-and-white thinking is like listening to George W. Bush.

And for all Gandhi's efforts, he still killed, didnt he? Black and white doesnt begin to describe the thinking here.

(I can't believe I am responding to this.)

I cant either. Nor can I make any sense of your response, or find a good reason why youd take the time to post such nonsense.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #57
82. Right here:
You said:

When was the last time you flushed a spider down the toilet, or smashed a bug on your windsheild, or stepped on something you shouldnt have?

And I replied:

The fact that living things die does not justify killing for the sake of killng.

Remember: the topic was hunting.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
63. Sorry I carry the spiders outside where I figure
they belong. As for road kill I am saddened by everyone and do my best to avoid hitting anything. Hitting a bug at sixty isn't exactly or even nearly the same as shooting a deer with a high powered rifle and telescopic sight. Want to have fun.....hunt humans at least they have a chance and yes, I figure you would probably eat them also there by clearing your conscience.
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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
70. self-delete
Edited on Thu Mar-10-05 07:31 PM by Dave Reynolds
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Had it, no fun.
Seriously, how do you figure you are so superior to the other creatures on earth that you get to decide if they live or die?



My guess is your answer will be.

For the same reason that a dog licks his balls....because he can?


Please surprise me.
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #63
79. Why isnt it the same?
Edited on Thu Mar-10-05 08:13 PM by goju
Im especially curious as to why you have declared yourself judge, jury, and executioner, and how you get to decide which animals death is insignificant. Are we placing value on one species over another?

Do you eat meat?
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
48. Speaking of non-sequiters
"Vegetarian then?"
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. Not quite
Clearly you cannot be meat eater, and disparage hunting at the same time, right?
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. Here I do agree with you
Just like you can't be a beef eater and look down on someone for eating cat or dog....it's simply a matter of taste at that point.

High brow lady at exclusive dinner party, her table mate, a low life male asks if she would make love to him for $10 million, she hardly hesitates before replying in the affirmative. "Well how about for five bucks", he asks? "What" she says, "do you think I'm a whore?" "We've already established that", he replies", "now we're just dickering price"
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Kixel Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Interesting attitude
I don’t understand why so many people see hunting as a bad thing. The hunters I know and love are all true sportsmen; they sit in the woods for hours on end. It may not be a hobby you’d like (it’s not my idea of a good time) however, it plays an important role in the natural habitat. Thinning the herd is important, unless you want to hit a deer with your car or watch them starve. A friend of mine used to drive a car we called the deer slayer because she’d hit two deer in one summer. That, my friends, is a useless way to die! When my family was running short on cash during the recession in the 80’s, I can’t tell you how much venison sausage we ate (and how much I hate it now). I also see a lot of hunters who care more about the environment than your average Joe off the street. They know the wilderness and appreciate it, they take on reforesting projects because they know it needs to be done. It’s not always about the kill, most of the time it really isn’t. I have never talked to a sportsmen who was upset about not getting a deer, they just know that it works that way sometimes.

It’s wrong to dismiss hunting as a cruel sport unless you have truly been involved or effected by it. I respect anyone who chooses to be a vegetarian. To be disdainful of those who hunt seems to be against being an open minded liberal.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
59. As I said in another post
The hunting of animals such as deer is one thing, and I do respect those who hunt at the level of bow and arrow, but I do have a problem with hunting animals that are on the verge of extinction, and on the subject of canned hunts. Taking an animal for food, and to use all parts of the animal is one thing--to stick a head on a wall of an animal who had no way to defend itself is another.

I have a far bigger problem with trappers. Many trappers put out steel-jawed leghold traps and just leave them in the wild for weeks on end. The traps do not discriminate about what animal they catch--and most of what they catch are called "trash" animals which are left to rot. In fact, many animals who are caught in traps will gnaw off their own limb in order to escape from the traps.

I can't say that all hunting is wrong or bad, and I see the need for wildlife population control, but there should be a certain honor in hunting circles where those who hunt with dogs, or who use high-powered rifles, or those who trap with steel-jawed leghold traps, are regarded as not the kind of hunters we need to keep putting up with.
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Kixel Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #59
92. I see where you are coming from...
That is a completely different argument, at least in my eyes. There are those who hunt and those who shoot. Those who shoot, well, they are of a different ilk than the people I am referring to. I think it’s important to remember the difference. Hopefully the decline in hunting is from those who just show up in the woods, rather than the true sportsmen.

I don’t really know much about trapping, so I won’t pretend to be an expert on that. The only know-how I have on that was setting gopher traps to keep the little critters out of the garden or the fields. It was either that or poison, and throwing poison around is not a good idea. I know that’s not what you are referring to, but I had to add my two cents!
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Had a friend in Oregon that hated when her father would
go hunting. Cruel. Sick. Sadistic.

Then there was a hard winter. Deer were coming out of the hills and being hit by cars. Elk were all but starving in people's backyards. Many, many thousands died up in the mountains even though they dropped food for them.

The girl almost had a meltdown. She realized there were just too many deer, and it struck home that nature is not the friendly abstraction she was taught in school. She changed her mind: better for a deer to get shot and eaten than to slowly die of hunger.

We've reduced the populations of predators that feed on deer; we've suppressed forest fires that limited their food supply; we hunt fewer deer per year than the natives did before Europeans arrived. Maybe enough will succumb to CWD.
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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. How very constructive to the conversation.
Not.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. Bogus?
The figures come from the census and the Fish and Wildlife survey.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Don't worry, it will pick back up again quite soon
When more people have to shoot their own food.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. What Enraged_Ape said!
And growing a vegetable garden will again be a necessity. The Foxfire Books are still on sale, BTW.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. Canned Hunts for the Elite: Big Business
Canned hunting is a lucrative and expanding industry. It is estimated that there are more than 1,000 captive mammal hunting operations in at least 28 states. Several factors feed into that expansion: The overbreeding of captive exotic animals, the desire by some hunters with plenty of cash for a quick and easy kill, and the incentive to bag exotic mammals provided by Safari Club International's "Introduced Trophy Game Animals of North America" trophy hunting achievement award.
More...

And then there's this little gem:
Cheney's Canned Kill, and Other Hunting Excesses of the Bush Administration
By Wayne Pacelle

Vice President Dick Cheney went pheasant shooting in Pennsylvania in December 2003, but unlike most of his fellow hunters across America, he didn't have to spend hours or even days tramping the fields and hedgerows in hopes of bagging a brace of birds for the dinner table.

Upon his arrival at the exclusive Rolling Rock Club in Ligonier Township, gamekeepers released 500 pen-raised pheasants from nets for the benefit of him and his party. In a blaze of gunfire, the group—which included legendary Dallas Cowboys quarterback Roger Staubach and U.S. Senator John Cornyn (R-TX), along with major fundraisers for Republican candidates—killed at least 417 of the birds. According to one gamekeeper who spoke to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Cheney was credited with shooting more than 70 of the pen-reared fowl.
More...
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Hunting is a cowardly sport, but canned hunting
is even worse. It's like killing a tame animal.
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. How is hunting cowardly?
I mean, if you are again holding humans up to some different biological standard than all other predators, just say so now. I think its clear that you consider certain animals of lesser value than others, but are you saying humans have become better than out biology now?

Poor lion, little does he know of his cowardice.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
51. Will you let yourself be hunted?
You know, the do unto others idea?
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Lordy
"Will you let yourself be hunted?"

Are we not hunted already? By anything that can kill us? I guess you dont get outdoors much then?
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #55
74. Unless you live where there are big cats
or grizzly, brown or polar bears, or swim in waters with sharks and orca wales (can't think of anything else that hunts man) you haven't been outdoors much either. Even then your chances of being "hunted" by another animal are mighty slim.
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goju Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. Is it that confusing?
And if so, how can I help?
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #33
88. Hunting is cowardly because the hunter is armed
and the hunted have no chance of defense other than to run.
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
46. If it's cowardly, then I challenge you to kill a wild turkey gobbler....
...while hunting solo. Go ahead. Once you've done it, report back to us how the human has the edge.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #46
89. I won't take that challenge because I don't believe in
Edited on Fri Mar-11-05 08:55 AM by RebelOne
blowing away animals for the joy of killing and bragging rights. Also, what is so difficult about hunting wild turkey. All you do is find an area where the turkeys are, find a spot to hunt from, blow your turkey call and lure the bird to you. And boom, the "brave" hunter has his bird.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
87. Yep--
this is one area of so-called "hunting" that is despicable, disgusting and pure torture for animals. It's like telling your dog or cat to sit still for a moment while you blast their brains out, because that's exactly what it is. Massacre--not hunting. I only wish that the karma these bastards are getting will come to fruition at a time when we can all celebrate their downfall.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. Deers gone wild!
That article I read on DU about the deer population exploding from 250,000 to 2.5 million rather alarms me. They have made many wildflowers extinct in parts of the country by overbrowsing. They also selectively browse the tree shoots and will destroy our hardwood forests.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hunting will be back when everything in *'s America falls apart.
And more folks have to hunt just to survive.

I'm no hunter, I've never supported hunting for 'sport' -- I don't believe it is "sporting" to take out deer and other creatures with high-powered rifles, electronic scopes, etc.

But if a hunter must hunt, does so properly, and uses all of what he kills, I cannot condemn it.
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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. I think that the oh-so-open minded "meat is murder" people
would just as soon starve.

And sadly, from reading some of their posts on DU, I'm beginning to think that would not be a tragedy.
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Kixel Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. Is it wrong...
...to find that really funny? I can’t stand venison sausage because I had to eat it so often growing up. The holier than thou attitude stinks.

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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. Steaks and roasts are tasty, though.
I never cared much for the sausage, too spicy for me. The burger makes good goulash, spaghetti, and chili.

Yes, my attitude sucks quite frequently. I try to do better but am not always successful.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #31
91. Again
the obfuscation of the discussion--there is a great deal different from eating farm-raised meat and killing an endangered animal in the wild.

And again, there is a vast difference between hunting a game animal in season simply because man"kind" has either destroyed its habitat or eliminated the predators to the extent that there is an overpopulation, and killing an animal which is on the verge of extinction.

And again, there is the difference between the hunter having a weapon that requires skill and either hunting with a high-powered rifle or treeing an animal and shooting it at point-blank range.

Those who obey the rules of the game, who allow the animal an equal chance to survive, or those who cull for sustenance and without a sick "pleasure" of killing just for the "fun" of it, are welcomed into the wild. And any hunter who defends these sort of tactics is just as barbaric as those who actually do it. And those who can't see the difference are obviously in the latter category and should be shown to the world as the apathetic, dispassionate animals they really are.

I spoke with a lot of hunters when I was working on Proposition 4 in California. Many of them that I had conversations with condemned the use of leghold traps. They felt that trappers were little more than scavengers in many ways. So yes, there are principled hunters out there, and I have no problems with them.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. I used to use an old 30.06---deer hunting. Would
keep and butcher the first, donate what I did not use. There are plenty of food banks in PA that take trimmed deer meat, and I know lots of neighbors who would take cuts....

Have not gone out in few yers, since being nearly killed by some yahoos in an SUV practicing drive-by hunting....

If you have ever hunted wild turkey, well, that's a sport. Those damn birds are smart.....
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #37
76. WI has several venison donation programs
Since the fall hunting season of 2000, hunters have donated over 24,000 deer which have provided over one million pounds of ground venison to needy families through the DNR.

There is also a Hunt for the Hungry sponsored by the hunter organization Whitetaiuls Unlimited which has provided 282 TONS of donate dvenison in 10 years.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
39. What IS the world coming to anyway?
People are TOO busy to go out and kill something before school??

Where ARE those traditional values we hear of?

Maybe they can sit near a window in the breakfast nook, and blast a squirrel or two while they peruse the paper and scarf down those poptarts:)

Come on people...get creative :)



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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
86. Well, you laugh...
But not all that long ago (1977) you would find in the trunk of my car parked at school appropos guns, ammo and license for whatever was in season.

I generally hunted before and after school. Spent my summers generally fishing and working.

The deer population is exploding at least in Md. because of 2 related factors, both products of suburban sprawl. More preferred habitat and less huntable area.

Yes. In the past animals have been hunted to exticntion. Deer were nearly there when we woke up. The primary reason that wildlife refuges and state forests exist is because of the excise taxes on equipment that hunters and fishermen pay. Ask your DNR where thier budget comes from.

-Hoot
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rolleitreks Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
40. I take some fish and game each year.
It helps me feel connected to the great non-plastic world. Tastes good too.
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DeaconBlues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
41. I went hunting a few times when I was young
I soon discovered I had more fun in the woods without a gun. I really don't know what to think of people who believe that the only way they can become connected with nature is by blasting part of it into nonexistence.
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
42. If more world leaders sat together in a duck blind at daybreak....
.....there were be far fewer wars.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
75. If we all had
ICBM's in the backyard with our own "button" the world would be a more polite place also.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
44. Three crucial words - "He's too busy..."
Most of us are too busy to do healthful ourdoors things we'd like to do.
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PennyK Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
45. well, I USED to fish
I live on Long Island, and obviously it's easy to get to the water. My dad grew up in Seagate, Brooklyn, and he always fished...they caught so many lobsters they used to feed 'em to the cat! He continued to fish as an adult, and it was a great supplement to our diets...fresh flounder can go for $10 a pound. He also clammed, and let me tell you, fresh clam chowder,fritters, and baked clams are amazing.
Anyhoo, I went with him form time to time, and my main way of looking at it was a bonding experience. I went veg a few years ago, and while I did go back to eating meat, I now feel that fishing would be wrong...I don't think I could prticipate in the killing myself. And even my dad doesn't go anymore...he is losing his faculties and it would be tough.
And unlike Saddam, we did NOT fish with guns!!!!! (In fact, Dad made his own lures, even molded his own weights, and wrapped his own fishing poles. A skilled machinist, his claim to fame is that he worked on the LEM at Grumman - he was given a little model of it as a memnto.)
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
83. Long Island is good fishing too.
Yes, it does tend to be a bonding thing, as is hunting for many who live in the country. Sometimes when the kids have flown the nest, then that passes. It's OK to let it go. Move on, but never let go of the natural environment. That is what is really important. You can still visit and enjoy those same places without the fishing rod or the gun. Bring the camera and a good pair of hiking boots.
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ZR2 Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
47. I believe the drop in interest in hunting is due to the reduction in
available hunting lands. Fewer and fewer acres are being hunted each year. The reasons are many, but a lot of the landowners I know and have hunted on thier property no longer allow hunting because it has become too much of a liability issue. Too many landowners have lost thier land after being sued because Joe Dumbass shot himself on thier property.
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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. Not to mention
slob hunters not cleaning up after theirselves. I asked a couple of farmers around my house for permission and they both told me of piles of trash around where the hunters parked.

A few bad ones (hunters AND non-hunters) kind of give the rest of their groups a bad reputation.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. I loathe hunting and have grown to loathe it more every day for
some pretty good reasons that apply to me. I live in ALaska. People come up here to see the place and kill things. Its either visit to watch or come and kill some kind of animal or fish. We have CONSTANTLY voted down arial wolf hunts up here, where you fly and run down wolves and blow them away. The FUCKING pugs and governor stuffed the game board with hunters and guides and they are killing wolves and other predators EVERY day inspite of what we have said. Some great wolf packs are destroyed. They have deccimated them, killing females and males everywhere they can find them. They even want to kill the Denali Park pack. That doesn't count that they want to kill the bears at the bear viewing places too. I am SICK of hunting and the mentality that too many hunters have that they have a right to hunt and no one can have a right to believe otherwise. Too damned many times they kill bears here that they could chase away or dart if they wanted to.

I come from a long line of hunters and fishers and had a moderate view for years but not anymore. Where I live, hunters and guides come first, to hell with the rest of us.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. That's not hunting. That's a massacre. (nt)
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. double post.
Edited on Thu Mar-10-05 06:17 PM by roguevalley
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Anakin Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
66. Aww. How Sad it is
that a murderer can't find enough time to KILL!
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tubbacheez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
67. I disagree with the notion that heritage has been lost.
Heritage is lost only if one defines it that way.


Describing the same thing from a different perspective, one could say that meat consumption in America used to be heavily dependent on hunting and less so on the slaughter of domesticated animals.

Slowly over the years, as population and technology changed meat consumption became more reliant on slaughtered herd animals. Today, this trend has given us the factory-farm (see The Meatrix www.themeatrix.com/ ).

Our heritage of meat consumption continues unabated... though with modern style (like the current unpopularity of red meat, saturated fat, organ meats, etc.)




Americans (literate ones, at least) used to write in hand cursive using a goose-feather quill. Today, many of us write by touch typing on a computer keyboard. American writing continues, though with modern quirks.

Americans used to weave our own cloth too. We still wear clothes today, but there are modern twists (like Abercombie & Fitch, which I'll probably never fully understand).

Americans used to heat (a part of) their homes with coal stoves. Now, natural gas and electric heat are more common. We still heat our homes today, though with modern changes.

I won't subject you to an outhouse example.



Anybody wanna call those things part of our heritage?

My point is that history came and went as a complete whole. There were pros and cons to the way Americans used to live.

While it may be tempting to extract a few highlights to praise in the romance of nostalgia, in reality history was experienced as a whole and has passed as a whole.

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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
72. Damn ....
I was just going to take my AR15 and go duck hunting ....

Drats ....
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hansolsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
81. Hunting continues to flourish in states that have lots of public land.
For example hunting is still very popular in such states as Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. The last time I checked these states seemed to have had some importance in national elections. So what you ask?

Many traditional Dem voters, including plenty of union members have traditionally been hunters and still are.

Dem activists who are opposed to hunting, are, of course, welcome not to hunt, but are not welcome to make it more difficult for Dem candidates to get elected becuase they go around trashing hunters.

Holding hunters up to ridicule and scorn is a good way to drive more traditional Dem voters into the Repub ranks.
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currents Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
85. Less hunting = Less Wildlife/Wild lands & too many people
Instead of killing animals with guns we are killing them with concrete!

I enjoy shooting, but hunting isn't really my thing. It just doesn't seem so fun to kill things. I do enjoy killing clay birds though!

Anyway, if you read this article and are happy that there are less hunters, maybe it is your fault that the animals are gone for being a vegitarian and clearing the wild land so you can grow corn.

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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #85
94. You are correct. Welcome to DU!
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 09:30 AM
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93. My dad hunted, thats how we ate
when I was a kid..Mythologically speaking, theres something to be said about the concept of hunting as a ritual, but its been usurped by massively armed people who consider the animal they are killing as a sport, something not spiritual, just an attitude of mean-ness and control over the prey rather then treating the prey with respect and thanking it for giving them food to eat..
as one Cherokee woman I heard said once "Those are not hunters, their mentality is murder..real hunters treat the animals as equals.."
Oh well..who needs to hunt when you have large corporate agri businesses whaking the animals for you and sending them out as Big Macs?
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