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Blair Battles U.K. House of Lords to Save Terror Law (Update4)

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 10:10 PM
Original message
Blair Battles U.K. House of Lords to Save Terror Law (Update4)
March 10 (Bloomberg) -- U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair today accused the opposition Conservative Party and the House of Lords of diluting legislation to curb terrorism as Parliament neared a deadline to bring new rules into force.

Blair's government is seeking to impose controls without trial ranging from electronic tagging to house arrest for people suspected of terrorism. The opposition Conservatives object that the bill would limit the right to trial guaranteed by the Magna Carta since 1215.

The Lords voted 192-107 to insert for the third time a ``sunset clause,'' which has already been rejected twice by the lower, elected House of Commons. It is a Conservative-sponsored compromise allowing the Prevention of Terrorism Bill, if passed, to only apply until March 2006. <snip>

Blair's spokesman, Tom Kelly, told journalists that a sunset clause wasn't acceptable, and ``would send the wrong message to the police and security services, and the terrorists.'' <snip>

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=ad8vjBHgg21c&refer=uk

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. And the battle goes on
Debate restarted at 5am UK time.

Blair's spokesman, Tom Kelly, told journalists that a sunset clause wasn't acceptable and ``would send the wrong message to the police and security services, and the terrorists.''

Kelly said last year's Madrid train bombing that killed 191 people may have happened because the Spanish government wasn't seen as tough enough.

``Following the Madrid bombs there was a widespread perception of weakness,'' Kelly said. ``That's not something this country can afford.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=aCWaCNhaTtu8&refer=uk


Arrrgh! It's Cheney's "vote for us or we'll be attacked" bullshit all over again! What the fuck does he think terrorists do - say "Ooohh, those Brits are actually going to take some time to come up with a law that preserves their civil liberties instead of a knee jerk reaction - let's attack them"? Maybe putting Muslims (let's face it, they're the ones who it will happen to) under house arrest without a proper trial will increase the likelihood of terrorism, Tony? Like it did in Northern Ireland when they had internment there?

Blair is looking more fascist every day.
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oscarmitre Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Give him a time machine,
then he can transport himself to a time more sympathetic with his ideals - he might want to hook up with Lord Moseley or perhaps go back a bit further and get a gig with George III. What a frigging disappointment he turned out to be.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Steve Bell on Blair
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. Peers defy MPs over terror bill
BBC


Peers have voted yet again to defy the House of Commons over the government's controversial anti-terror bill.

After over 24 hours of parliamentary "ping pong" peers voted by 176 to 128 to support a Lib Dem move to raise the burden of proof against suspects.

Peers are now voting again on whether to reinstate their proposal for a 12-month time limit on the bill.

Both Houses of Parliament have sat through the night without reaching agreement on the bill.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4340407.stm

POODLE going down then pan - despite Condoleezza Rice's desperate pressure to get this anti-terror legislation passed.
If Lords continue their defiance, House of Commons can't invoke the Parliament Act - the last resort statute that got them their way over the recent fox hunting bill.
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gbarford Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. There are rumours at Westminster
That if the bill fails, then Blair will call a snap election on Monday. He probably won't though, just an empty threat.

Rather than keep playing ping-pong, a peer has just said that when the Commons send it back again, if the Lords reject them again, then he will propose that the House of Lords should adjourn, which would probably kill the bill.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Blair's New Anti-Terror Law Wins Approval
Parliament was deadlocked for almost two days over the bill, which will apply to both foreign nationals and Britons.

The Conservatives said it would infringe on civil liberties and had demanded a ``sunset clause'' that would cause the law to expire after a year. The government refused, saying such an amendment would send a message that Britain was soft on terrorism

After more than 30 hours of tense political debate in the House of Commons and House of Lords, the government produced a timetable for Parliament to review and amend the law and promised lawmakers time to draft more wide-ranging legislation later this year.

The concession was sufficient for both sides to back down gracefully and claim victory.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4858732,00.html


The other amendment the opposition parties were trying to get through was about the standard of evidence required; on this, the Tories gave in to the government, so it didn't pass:

The second amendment related to the process for the granting of control orders. We said that, firstly, the standard of proof required for someone to be deprived of their liberties and restricted with a control order should be stronger – a test of 'the balance of probabilities' rather than merely the Home Secretary’s 'reasonable suspicion'. And, secondly, we said that non-derogating (lower) control orders (e.g. tagging) should have to be granted by a judge and not a minister. (The Bill simply requires judicial approval after the event.)
...
On the question of the standard of proof required for control orders, and all control orders being granted by a judge, our disagreement with the government remains. We have taken a robust line on this. We have been assured that the government's own review will directly consider this issue. However we did not regard that as sufficient and continued to press this case to the very last, pushing it to the vote once again. Sadly the Conservatives were not so robust and backed down on this issue, so we lost the vote on this.

We will return to this issue under the new timetable and procedures the Government has now conceded.

http://www.libdems.org.uk/news/story.html?id=8352&navPage=news.html


We've still lost civil liberties in the UK. People can be put under house arrest (albeit by a judge) without necessarily knowing what the evidence aginst them is (and thus they may not know how to defend themselves), and with just a 'reasonable suspicion' - about the standard currently needed to arrest someone, or tap their phone. And it's going to be like that for at least a year.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. What Say the Reeds at Runnymede? eom
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. We're living in alternate history
One where Britons have to depend on the House of Lords to try to defend the Rights of Englishmen.
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The Lords have done a better job than the Commons
as happened in the days of Thatcher, ironically enough.

Not having to rely for re-election on the support of the right wing scare-mongers, racists and bigots running the tabloid press can be very liberating, of course.
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