Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Italian minister rebukes hostage shot by US troops

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread		 This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 04:43 PM
Original message
Italian minister rebukes hostage shot by US troops
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L11719244.htm

ROME, March 11 (Reuters) - Italy's justice minister urged former hostage Giuliana Sgrena on Friday to stop making "careless" accusations after being shot by U.S. forces in Baghdad, saying she had already caused enough grief.

Sgrena has repeatedly suggesting U.S. soldiers shot her on purpose and said on Friday she had little faith in a joint investigation by Italy and the United States into the "friendly fire" incident.

"She has created enormous problems for the government and also caused grief that perhaps was better avoided," Justice Minister Roberto Castelli told reporters in Bologna.

Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari was shot dead by U.S. forces as he shielded the newly freed hostage while taking her to the airport.

more

Word just came down. Sgrena had better watch what she says.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, what would she know about what happened to her, anyway? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guckert Donating Member (946 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Exactly, She has no clue on what happened TO HER!!!! DUH!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. or what? they'll shoot her?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. You missed the shot across her bow?
"saying she had already caused enough grief"

Yep. The whole fuck up is going to blamed on her if she don't shutthefuckup fast. I think thats the way all these goons work. Don't matter if it is in America or Italy. Its all the same shit. You know the saying. Bidness is bidness. I don't get bitter about it neither anymore. Ain't worth it. I just laugh this shit off any more.

Don
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. sorry, I was being sarcastic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Oh. I knew it. Sorry. I was just thinking out loud is all
Maybe this kind of stuff is all for the best? I don't know? I am sure the Italian wine growers, cheese makers, suit makers, car makers, etc., and the employees who depend on a living working for them do not want to hear no shit in our news that avoiding Italian products would be the patriotic thing to do. We have too many mental midgets in this country who would fall for that crap watching the MSM and would avoid Italian products. Or Chimpy would slap tariffs on anything Italian. Bidness.

Don
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mourningdove92 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. So, this is today's definition of telling the truth.
"Sgrena, I think, should perhaps be more careful. She has said a load of nonsense, speaks somewhat carelessly and makes careless comments," Castelli said."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. good lord!
It's started. Blame the victim.

Berlusconi and the Italian ministers are so corrupt. They've all been compromised by their tongue-in-ass relationship with the USA and Mr. Bush.

Too bad.

Sue
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. y'know, I can do TWO Italian PMs with ONE impersonation now!
Berluscolini said that Italy can't "guarantee" the safety of anyone "foolhardy" enough not to be a ward or embed of the U.S. army.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. She has created a problem??? What about him sending troops to iraq
when the italian people were firmly against doing that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. I wonder if we'll get to see some italian's hanging from their ankles NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. Ah, the new spin points just handed down
Berlusconi MUST get this under control or he's OUT. And once he's out, the prosecutors will come looking for all thos crimes he committed and stifled the investigations of.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. I hope this comes back to haunt him, come election time.
The Spanish electorate showed what can happen to arrogant Bushite politicians.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. Quit causing problems, Giuliana!
Just take your bullets and shut up! What do you know about the shooting? You're just a journalist! Roberto Castelli is a Justice Minister. A Justice Minister! So he knows what's what.

And gratuitous knows a load of ass-covering crapola when he sees it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. LONGER TIME FOR CAR TO COME BACK TO ITALY
The investigation by Rome's public prosecutor's office on the homicide of Sismi agent Nicola Calipari and the attempted homicide of journalist Giuliana Sgrena and the Carabinieri major who was driving the car shot by 'friendly fire' could be delayed due to inevitable bureaucratic affairs. The Toyota Corolla, which the US military authorities made available to Italian ones so that once transported to Rome it could be examined by ballistic experts appointed by the prosecutor, could stay for some time longer in Iraqi territory. In fact, it appears that the vehicle on which the three were riding will not leave Baghdad, under US control, due to the making of the joint Italy-USA commission established to shed light on last week's occurrence. Public Prosecutors Franco Ionta, Erminio Amelio and Pietro Saviotti hoped to be able to have the car by this week. The three telephones that Calipari and the other Sismi agent had were recovered. The verification of their contents should be started soon even though it will have to be understood if Italian intelligence will tag the contents a state secret.

http://www.agi.it/english/news.pl?doc=200503111912-1259-RT1-CRO-0-NF11&page=0&id=agionline-eng.oggitalia
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Does that mean the La Repubblica photos are not the ambush car?
I don't understand this story--it seems to be claiming that the ambush car is still in Iraq. So was the car in the photos the kidnap car?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. The story says the car is still in Iraq and it will stay there.
It doesn't comment on the pictures, and I can't say for sure.

What I remember of the pictures seems consistent with what
Ms Sgrena has to say, as far as where the bullet holes are etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. But this just doesn't make sense
Edited on Fri Mar-11-05 06:02 PM by Ms. Clio
Why would Italian television show pictures of a car they unequivocally identify as the ambush car if it's still in Iraq?

I'm just thinking out loud here, this thing is so weird. But it looks like DUer Binka has been absolutely right in her/his claims that RAI TV is a Berlusconi mouthpiece and that their pictures were of the kidnap car, not the ambush car. Those photos don't show the right side of the car at all, but the vehicle looks almost completely unscathed.

If this is true, then Sgrena's statement that there will not be a genuine investigation sounds accurate, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. You can send pictures from Iraq without sending the car.
And the pics don't give a good view of anything, especially
the right rear of the vehicle.

Berluscolini is trying to look forthcoming while keeping
things under control. Sgrena is pissing in his wheaties.

Stay tuned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:05 PM
Original message
But the newspapers said that the photos were taken in Italy
They were supposedly taken of the car after it had been flown back to Italy--I could find the story which clearly stated that. Not trying to argue with you here, just trying to piece this together.

It seems like we haven't seen any photos of the real ambush car at all.
I think we never will.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. I dunno what to tell you.
Between translation errors and the general bullshit level,
it's hard to tell. The only people whose word I really trust
at this point are the one's in the car, those that are still
alive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. And the people in the car, especially Sgrena, are already being set up
as crazy, unreliable liars.

Thanks, just find this whole thing really murky and disturbing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:10 PM
Original message
I can assure you the murkiness is not accidental. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Another poster said those pictures may have been the "capture car"
That is, the car she was in when first captured by the kidnappers. Certainly something is fishy about those photos.

As an aside, I seem to recall that when they were first brought to light on LBN, it was by some "low posters". I hope I am not being unfair to anyone, but that often makes me a little leery.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Right, Binka has said that it was the kidnap car, not the ambush car
But Italian media clearly stated that it was the ambush car, and that it had been flown back to Italy.

Just lies upon lies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Hard to say.
I have no opinions.
They can be plants without being fake, and the best lies
are completely true, as far as they go.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. I also posted a link to 6 pictures in La Repubblica.
I still have those pictures in my computer.

I am searching La Repubblica now. When I originally saw the pictures, only one line of the caption was visible. The second line was cut off because of my small screen, and I could not scroll.

I initially typed in "larepubblica.it", and it took me to a site "under construction". The correct address for La Repubblica is "repubblica.it", without the "la". I wonder who is setting up a site for "larepubblica" and what it will contain. Interesting timing.

I finally found a "cerca nel sito". The regular "search" button takes you out on the web. Useless. Searching articles re Sgrena is worthless, far too many.

Searching by images is getting me nowhere.

My point is that these were in La Repubblica. I don't know what the caption said about location of the car when the pictures were taken. If someone with a bigger screen can go look, at least we will know what the caption indicated, if anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Here, this is an interesting take I ran into today on uruknet:
The Sgrena Hit:
How They Did It, and Why

http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/03/sgrena-hit-how-they-did-it-and-why.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Thanks, I'll check it out
I wish Binka would comment on this, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerOstrich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I may be wrong but...
I think I read that the pictures of the car were of the car she was in when she was kidnapped (Ambush I). I don't think they have released any pictures of the car from when she was shot (Ambush II).

Since it is staying in Iraq, I doubt there ever is any pictures.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. I need to go back and look for the La Repubblica story
Which clearly stated that their photo gallery was of the Ambush II car--that gave all the freepers the opportunity to say, look, Sgrena was lying about the hail of gunfire, because the car in the photos was virtually untouched.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. There seems to be contradiction with the car issue.
Some people say the car pictures were claimed to be taken in Italy.
I just posted a story in this thread that says its in Iraq and going
to stay there. So somebody lied about something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. In the Wag the News Story, the car in the photo is the one supposedly
flown back to Italy and featured in on RAI TV and La Repubblica.

Those who are doing the lying clearly think we are all retarded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Yeah, I noticed that too.
But suppose the lie is just the "flown back to Italy" part?
The pics are in Iraq from what I can see.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Yes, it seems so
I wish I could find the original La Repubblica story, but since I can't read Italian, and the translation programs aren't very helpful, I can't tell if it's archived at the site, or not. But I'm almost positive that the story that accompanied the photo gallery claimed that the car hd just arrived in Italy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. It would seem that 'faith' and 'trust' are sorely lacking
amongst many people.

Apparently, it's not just the Americans who've been lied to most of their lives.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. Reports Blame U.S. In Agent Death
Some interesting bits ...

In interviews published Friday, Sgrena said that no light was flashed at the vehicle and that the shots were not fired in front of the car.

"It's not true that they shot into the engine," she told Corriere della Sera, adding that the shooting came "from the right and from behind."

In a parliament speech earlier this week, Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini said photos of the vehicle, which is still in Iraq, show that the fire "hit the right side of the car."

---

Italian SKY TG24 reported that satellite phones used by Calipari have been returned to the Rome prosecutors investigating the shooting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/11/iraq/main679687.shtml
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. Took them longer to say that than I thought... sigh. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
30. Her own government isn't even sticking up for her now.
What did BushCo threaten them with?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
35. Sounds like Italy's Justice Minister is on the US payroll.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fab1969 Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. He's in Berlusconi payroll
like all the other ones there.
It's disgusting how those fascists are manipulating the situation.
In one of berlusca channels (Rete4), his most devoted "journalist" (Emilio Fede) presented an editorial where he chastised Sgrena for thanking her kidnappers for the way she was treated "Le vergognose farneticazioni della comunista Giuliana Sgrena" (the shameful inventions of the Communist Sgrena).
Fede's editorial was so out of the top that his own journalists published a communique where they dissociated themselves from it.
http://www.repubblica.it/2005/c/sezioni/cronaca/caliparifune/fede/fede.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC