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NNN0LHI

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Mon Mar-14-05 12:28 AM
Original message

U.S. concerned by Venezuela arms deals

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5598826

LONDON (Reuters) - A senior U.S. military commander has expressed concerns over Venezuela's arms procurement programme, the
Financial Times reports.

General Bantz Craddock, the commander-in-chief of the U.S. Southern Command, said he was worried about the end-destination of around
100,000 Kalashnikov rifles which are reported to be heading for Venezuela.

"We are wondering what is the intent here," Craddock was quoted as saying on Monday. "If it is for sovereign defence, obviously each
nation can do their own... If it is to export instability, that is a different situation."

"We are concerned about that and we would like that not to happen," he added.

more

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oblivious

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Mon Mar-14-05 12:37 AM
Response to Original message

1. Why would Venezuela have any interest in 'exporting instability'?

It's so ridiculous!

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NNN0LHI

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Mon Mar-14-05 12:37 AM
Response to Original message

2. But Reagan supplying Stinger missile to bin Laden was just dandy?

Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 12:40 AM by NNN0LHI

The Reagan administration selling arms to Iran (Iran/Contra) was OK too, huh? And arming Saddam to fight the Iranians was just hunky dory also. But Chavez purchasing machine guns for use in his own country is bad. Who is kidding who here?

Don

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Spiffarino

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Mon Mar-14-05 12:42 AM
Response to Original message

3. Here's the set up...

Then comes the "proof" that Chavez is sending arms to Colombian guerillas.

Then Chavez gets vilified by the WH and its media lapdogs.

Then we have a nice new war on a place that just happens to have huge oil reserves.

Am I missing anything here?

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oblivious

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Mon Mar-14-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #3

5. Also, fake evidence of atrocities and undemocratic behavior at home.

Dutifully reported by the US media of course.

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xray s

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Mon Mar-14-05 12:47 AM
Response to Original message

4. Sounds like Tony Montana talking

"You wanna buy GUNS!? YOu don't buy no FUCKIN' GUNS in this town unless you buy from TONY MOMTANA! NOBODY takes business from ME!"

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shance

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Mon Mar-14-05 12:50 AM
Response to Original message

6. Like clockwork....here they go!!

Somebody mentioned today they wondered when the Administration would start being "worried" about WMD in Venezuela.

Well, heres the next best thing!!

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AP

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Mon Mar-14-05 12:57 AM
Response to Original message

7. Apparently the guns they use now are 50 years old...or so I read...

Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 12:57 AM by AP

in an interview with the foreign minister.

And to whom are they going to export instability? Nigeria? Every country in South America is pretty much run by a stable, center-left or left government.

If the fascists took control of Venezuela, that would cause more regional instability than Chavez and all the other left wing governments keeping on keeping on.

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punpirate

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Mon Mar-14-05 12:59 AM
Response to Original message

8. Venezuela has...

Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 12:59 AM by punpirate

... with regular army, national guard and irregulars, about 70,000 soldiers. An order for 100,000 hand weapons would be quite in order, considering the need for spares.

The first possibility in this US complaint is that Venezuela isn't ordering from US manufacturers, and second, that they are trying to raise the possibility that Venezuela is exporting terrorism--that will be the likely later claim. I recall that similar disinformation was used against Nicaragua in the early `80s, when the Sandinistas tried to arm themselves against the Contras, and somewhat before that time, when rebels opposed the right-wing government in El Salvador.

But, the general rule of thumb for the Pentagon is that arms not coming from US manufacturers are suspect....

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IndianaGreen

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Mon Mar-14-05 01:06 AM
Response to Original message

9. Chavez is arming the people's militia

and the one thing any criminal American general does not want is having Venezuela being turned into a Latin version of Iraq.

Who is this military puke that thinks he can tell a sovereign nation what it can and cannot do to defend itself against the Colossus of the North?

The American military are the Wehrmacht of the 21st century!

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Blue to the bone

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Mon Mar-14-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #9

14. I thought he wasn't arming a people's militia? Is he? n/t

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Judi Lynn

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Mon Mar-14-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #14

18. You tell us. You've stated you live in Venezuela. n/t

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Blue to the bone

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Mon Mar-14-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #18

20. I have told you guys and was blasted for what I said. n/t

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IndianaGreen

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Mon Mar-14-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #14

22. If you don't want your people to end up killed like the Aristide

If you don't want your people to end up killed like the Aristide supporters in Haiti, one must organize them into people's militias (a good example of the Second Amendment at work!)

The militia consists of all the social elements that stand to lose the most if the elites were to regain control. Remember that the people's militia is run from the bottom up, not the top down. So the people that live in one of the shanty towns so prevalent in Latin America, would be armed and trained to defend themselves from the sort of assassins that John Negroponte ran in El Salvador and Nicaragua.

The people's militia will also make a living hell for any misguided US soldier that dares to set foot in Venezuela.

Had Allende had a people's militia, Pinochet would have never grabbed power.

Published on Monday, May 17, 2004 by the Agence France Presse

Thousands Protest Colombian Paramilitary Presence in Venezuela

Chavez to Set up 'People's Militia'

President Hugo Chavez announced his government would establish "people's militias" to counter what he called foreign interference after an alleged coup plot by Colombian paramilitaries Caracas claims was financed by Washington.

Chavez also said he would boost the strength of Venezuela's armed forces as part of a new "anti-imperialist" phase for his government.

"Each and every Venezuelan man and woman must consider themselves a soldier," said Chavez.

"Let the organization of a popular and military orientation begin from today."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0517-04.htm

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solinvictus

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Mon Mar-14-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #9

24. The Wermacht won most of their battles...

so far under Chimpy, we're at a stalemate turning into a quagmire.

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bemildred

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Mon Mar-14-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message

10. New arsenal for Venezuela.

Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 01:55 PM by bemildred

Additional dialog, some new spin.

Equipment ranging from 50 latest-generation Mig-29 warplanes to dozens of helicopter gunships, 100,000 Kalashnikov automatic rifles and a fleet of naval vessels, have all been reported as imminent deliveries to Venezuela's new arsenal.

---

“We are wondering just what the intent here is,” Gen Craddock said in an interview. “If it is for sovereign defence, obviously each nation can do their own, and as well they should in terms of protecting their sovereignty and their national boundaries.”

No clue there, eh?

---

Some US officials are more concerned by what they see as the lack of financial transparency in the negotiation of the arms deals than by the bellicose capability of the arms themselves. Price tags ranging up to $5bn (€3.7bn, £2.6bn) have been reported as the total cost of Mr Chávez's oil-financed defence spending spree, yet none of the purchases has yet been debated in Venezuela's legislature.

“It's an orgy of corruption,” said Roger Pardo-Maurer, deputy assistant secretary for western hemisphere affairs at the US Department of Defense.

MercoPress

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Judi Lynn

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Mon Mar-14-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #10

11. "An orgy of corruption! This, from a former Iran-Contra scum.

The last quote in your post comes from Roger (Rogelio) Pardo-Maurer, an unfamilar name to most, I'd bet. A quick google grab reveals the following happened prior to the right-wing coup attempt:

The Pentagon has confirmed that Gen. Lucas Rincón Romero, chief of the Venezuelan armed forces, met December 18 with Rogelio Pardo-Maurer, U.S. deputy defense secretary for Western Hemisphere affairs, who served during the 1980s as chief of staff to the U.S. representative of rightwing Nicaraguan rebels known as contras. On April 11, before Chávez was removed, Rincón refused an order to send tanks to protect the presidential palace. A few hours later, he announced Chávez’s “resignation.”
(snip)

http://www.americas.org/item_227

Rogelio Pardo-Maurer,
deputy defense secretary
for Western Hemisphere affairs

So not only was he VERY involved in Reagan's Contra war, he was also one of the instrumental figures in Washington as they coordinated plans for the attempted coup on Venezuela's very popular leader. Another slime from another time.

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bemildred

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Mon Mar-14-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #11

13. Very funny coming from a Pentagon guy.

Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 02:26 PM by bemildred

They like invented it, and are the World's formost exponents of corruption
in arms deals.

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redqueen

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Mon Mar-14-05 02:20 PM
Response to Original message

12. Just like clockwork...

*sigh*

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tom_paine

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Mon Mar-14-05 03:43 PM
Response to Original message

15. Funny, I though the Export of Instability was an Imperial Amerikan core

belief?

Oh, that's right. We are exporting FREEDOM :puke:

You know, all that bullshit about freedom coming from a Tyrannical Dictator doesn't sound any better coming our of Emperor Tiberius' BushMouth than it did coming out of Ferdinand Marcos or Josef Stalin.

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Vladimir

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Mon Mar-14-05 03:45 PM
Response to Original message

16. Exporting instability?!?

You've got that fucking market cornered chum...

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Zorra

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Mon Mar-14-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message

17. "what is the intent here?" Analysis: Chavez will arm the people

By Carlos Coello
TIEMPOS DEL MUNDO
Published February 25, 2005

CARACAS, Venezuela -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has ignited new controversy with his plans for "units of popular defense" throughout the country to defend it from a possible attack from "imperialism."

Chavez, who has referred on many occasions to a possible U.S. invasion, said, "If imperialism ever has the idea of challenging Venezuela it would have to deal with Bolivar's people, who is prepared to defend their sovereignty, their motherland."

He also said he will increase the number of reservists from 35,000 to 100,000.

The government has said the country must be prepared for "asymmetrical warfare" against "imperialism," a warning Chavez issued after making a substantial weapons purchase from Russia, including 100,000 AK-47s, 40 combat helicopters and antitank and antiaircraft missiles. Venezuela has also been negotiating with Russia's Rosoboronexport to purchase MiG fighter aircraft.

http://www.wpherald.com/Latin_America/storyview.php?StoryID=20050225-030514-6916r

If this source is credible, it seems that Chavez has pretty plainly stated his intentions.

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Judi Lynn

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Mon Mar-14-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #17

19. Maybe be the slightest bit spun towards the right....

Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 04:37 PM by Judi Lynn

From "about us," at your source:

World Peace Herald is an online general-interest news publication for readers around the world. Based in Washington, D.C., World Peace Herald draws on the worldwide resources of The Washington Times,
(snip)

http://www.wpherald.com/About/about.php

If you are unacquaianted with the Washington Times, it'd be worth your while to check on that organization.

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Zorra

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Mon Mar-14-05 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #19

21. The Moonie Times? One step above Newsmax, maybe. Pretty well

acquainted with many of the RW propaganda rags.

Thanks for the link.

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IndianaGreen

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Mon Mar-14-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #17

23. What do we expect Chavez to do? Let America slaughter his people?

No one would think twice about arming the citizenry to protect themselves from terrorists. In this case, Chavez wants to protect his people from the American Hitler.

Viva Chavez!

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Blue to the bone

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Tue Mar-15-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #17

25. I've not supported the idea of "units of popular defense"....

I say so because I look at how these arms and the "units of popular defense" are likely to ultimately be used in the future.

While the intent of protecting the nation against an imperial US invasion looks good on paper, I'm afraid that many of these weapons will ultimately fall into the wrong hands or be used against those they were never intended.

Crime here is terrible, especially in the big cities, and it's just hard for me to believe that a government distribution of small arms will result in anything good.

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AP

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Tue Mar-15-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #25

26. In The Revolution Will Not be Televised, I remember there being a

statistic cited that 80% or so of the population carries guns.

It seems like there's already a super-high saturation of weapons in Venezuela.

Another thing I remember thinking after seeing that movie was that one of the few reasons the coup was undone was because people with guns stayed loyal to Chávez. If the Miraflores guards didn't have weapons, and if loyal elements of the armed services weren't armed, Chávez would not have returned to power.

I suspect that the US objection to Venezuelans loyal to Chávez being armed might come from the exact same reading of that movie.

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