Diocese of San Diego denies Catholic funeral rites to (Gay) bar owner

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=312&u=/sddt/20050318/lo_sddt/dioceseofsandiegodeniescatholicfuneralritestobarow&printer=1




more: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=312&u=/sddt/20050318/lo_sddt/dioceseofsandiegodeniescatholicfuneralritestobarow&printer=1

just before he died, so all were given funeral rites and we prayed for their soul.

What's the deal with this Diocese?

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...and is most certainly buried in the "sacred" ground of a Catholic cemetery somewhere.

Don

He'd hold the funeral himself.

:yourock:

:hi:

... assholes.

The Catholic Church is nothing more than a shadow right-wing organization, determined to keep the poor poor and the rich rich. Who gives the most money to them, after all?

Most Catholics are pretty good people. I think this is another case where you only hear about the notorious, but not the majority.

... the parishioners didn't make this decision. The diocese did.

They're the assholes. Right-wing assholes, pandering to their right-wing political community.

Criticizing leadership of the Catholic church is not the same thing as criticizing Catholics.

I'm never going to believe these people actually exist until they start speaking up DURING THE SERMONS.

Their silence equals their assent.

...its being made by one diocese and not the entire Catholic Church. I'm going to try to find some more facts on this. I have friends in that diocese.

I know too many good Catholics involved in progressive social action to write off everyone.

do Catholics object to drinking and owning a bar????

I knew of So Bapt families in OK and TX who kept real quiet about owning/managing/working in places where liquor was sold for fear of condemnation from members of their congregation

Catholics have absolutely no problem with alcohol unless its used in excess.

This is about him owning a gay bar, not merely a bar.

"repent' if you promote gay lifestyle (my read on this issue).

I think he is in heaven right now,
having all the gay sex he likes
because he un-repented the second
he arrived in heaven
(which I believe is a celestial right).

None of this changes the fact that
the diocese refused to honor a man who
was in fact repented at the time of
his departure.
Hellfire awaits those who would scorn a good Christian soul
on its journey to heaven!

is what the Catholic Church would refer to as "just" discrimination.

They make a distinction between "just" and "unjust" discrimination so that they can smile beatifically when they proclaim, "we should treat gay people with dignity and respect."

What's the difference between a Southern Baptist and a Catholic? A Catholic will say 'hello' to you in the liquor store!

Maybe the bars ARE scandalous. People aren't often denied Catholic funerals and it's certainly not done because someone is gay.

A homosexual orientation is not a sin, according to the Church, and gays are as much God's children as heterosexuals.

As already noted, Catholics don't have a problem with bar owners, either. What got the bishop of San Diego upset about this man's business activities? I'd be surprised if there wasn't more to this than the fact that he owned two gay bars. Anybody here from San Diego?

Or training soldiers to torture innocent people.

Or providing protection for criminal pedophiles.

Oh, my bad. The church endorses those business activities.

According to the San Diego Union Tribune, the major newspaper here, it was the "public" nature of McClosky's gay life that triggered the Bishop's actions - merely learning of McClosky's ownership of two nightclubs that have "gay nights". The Bishop certainly didn't have the time to privately investigate those "bars" to discover some other "scandalous" activity - the "scandal" was the "public" nature of the guy's being gay, IOW, owning "gay bars".

This Bishop is full of shit and deserves to be defrocked. But don't count on it - the Vatican has been corrupted by Bushco.

some rectories.

What, then did Jesus die for?

It's despicable. I sure hope some Catholic priest -- or a group of them -- go there and offer to say a funeral mass somewhere else, perhaps at the cemetary chapel.

I'm a critic of Catholicism, but I don't believe this reprehensible act is typical.

Bruce J. Simpson's book THE GAY FACE OF GOD. They might learn something. and they might also learn that as Archbishop Simpson says, (and as much as I and many others don't really want this current Pope to die--he,) this current Pope has moved the Roman Catholic Church back to the 15th Century.

(Years ago divorced people were not allowed by our enlightened church to receive the last rites. people who committed suicide could not be buried in Catholic cemeteries ......so many stupidities that I am sure God himself would be opposed to ... and here these prelates are reviving a whole bunch of new stupidities) wow! i now feel better.

"If Grace is True," by Gulley and Mulholland.

'splains everything.

What would it have taken to make a simple statement that while such-and-such activity didn't mesh with Church teachings, the highest law is charity towards all? The people who are hurt and need the funeral the most are the ones left behind.

the diocese has lost it's mind -- probably 'cause it's lost it's soul.

*sarcasm off*

The Church I grew up in is going to hell in a handbasket!

How dare they deny this man the funeral rites.

My Protestant father-in-law was given a Catholic funeral. Mobsters and murderers have been given Catholic funerals.

This has gone way too far!!!

i haven't stepped foot in a catholic church since my boss's son's funeral but i'm going to email or write to the SD diocese to register my complaint. this is not how i was taught in 12 years of catholic school!

who the hell do they think they are, anyway?
the sooner people turn away from "religious leader" charlatans (i.e., the whole fantasy world of organized religion, Marx's "opiate of the masses"), the better off the world will be.

reminds me of a bumpersticker I saw recently in my apartment complex:
Atheism Cures Religious Terrorism

JMHO and I apologize if I have offended anybody but this stuff just riles me no end.

I thought the sacrament was to connect God and the dead person and only concerned the decedent and God,

Not pandering to a group of Hating Right wing homophobes and their support of the church.

Odd that a catholic bishop makes church related decisions by asking: "What would Satan do?"

my contention the Catholic Church has its institutional head up its ass seems to be true. Where in any thing Jesus said, did He talk of gays? He didn't, therefore I think its safe to conclude, IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't get me wrong, on the local level the Church does many fine things in the community, I know because I work for the social action arm of the local diocese where I live. But this kind of thing only distances the Church from many of its former members, like me.............

the writings of Paul (who was a misogynistic xenophobe) than to the sayings of Jesus..

You are soooo right. St.Paul the 'messiah of the priests'.

devoid of any beauty of the soul. Worthless.

If it's not about the gay part, but the 'bar' part as they are claiming, can they show consistency?

What about owners of hotels that have a bar in them (or even just hotels for that matter)? Liquor stores? Anywhere that alcohol is served?

How about strip joints?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050318-9999-1n18funeral.html

Appalling, absolutely appalling:

"Valdivia wouldn't comment when asked to specify which of McCusker's business activities violated church doctrine. He emphasized that the church's decision had nothing to do with the sexual orientation of McCusker, who was gay. Instead, the decision was based on McCusker's 'public activity' as a businessman, Valdivia said."

"'We received information that the business he was involved with was inconsistent with Catholic teachings,' Valdivia said...."

"...Valdivia cited Canon 1184 of the Code of Canon Law, which provides a list of those who must be 'deprived of ecclesiastical funeral rites.' Among those on the list are 'manifest sinners' for whom such funeral rites 'cannot be granted without public scandal to the faithful.' The church uses the term 'manifest sinners' to describe those whom it considers obstinate and persistent sinners.
Valdivia was unable to say how often the diocese has invoked this canon to deny funeral rites to Catholics in past years. He couldn't recall any examples."

Soooo... denying McCusker a funeral had nothing to do with his being gay. It's McCusker's "public activity" in owning a nightclub which includes "gay nights" which, in this Bishop's fetid brain makes McCusker a "manifest sinner" under Canon 1184.

IOW, it's OK to be Catholic and a gay "sinner" so long as you aren't "manifest" about it and you STAY THE FUCK IN THE CLOSET!!!

Well screw you, Bishop Pukazoid. This is the last straw for me.

Strike one was the Vatican's reluctance to do a damned thing about the widespread abuse of children by Catholic priests for decades/centuries. It's still only reluctantly doing a half-assed job about it after the public revelations of the enormity of the problem during the past few years.

Strike two was Bush's trip to the Vatican during his re-election campaign, while simultaneously pushing his gay-bashing campaign for the Marriage Amendment, and the senile pope spouting anti-gay crap planted in his brain by cardinals bribed by Bushco. The bastards even went so far as to refuse to give communion to John Kerry DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN because Kerry opposed Bush's gay-bashing public statements and Marriage Amendment proposals.

This is strike three.

My wife and I were raised, baptised, confirmed, and married in the Catholic church.

So long Vatican. We quit. Hello Episcopalian church (which granted McCusker his funeral rites).

We're no longer particularly religious people, but have always been very spiritual. We can no longer abide having *anything* to do with the Catholic Church. So we're shopping around - we're going to check out the local Episcopalian church as a result of reading this article, primarily due to the possibility we may have our infant son baptised some day.

We're male, female, and straight by the way. We just have no tolerance for this kind of brazen bigotry from those who claim to uphold the teachings of Jesus, who would never condone such outrages.

And Church of Religious Science (great, fun, open, welcoming church down there)!

And United Church of Christ!

And the local Episcopal church!

They are all good!

I don't know anything about the others you mentioned, beyond the Episcopals.

My list of Progressive Churches: questions about them can be answered at the following websites.

Church of Religious Science (focused on affirmations, positive thinking, affirmative prayer),
http://www.rsintl.org/
http://www.religiousscience.org/

Metropolitan Community Churches,
http://www.mccchurch.org/

Quaker – Society of Friends (peace-oriented),
http://www.quaker.org/

United Church of Christ (Rev. Barry Lynn, J.D., of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is ordained through these fine folks; they did the great welcoming commercial),
http://www.ucc.org/index4.html

Unitarian-Universalist,
http://www.uua.org/

Unity,
http://www.unity.org/

****And to find the perfect faith for you, a very helpful test:
http://www.beliefnet.com/index.html?rnd=538
(take the Belief-o-Matic Test)


On edit:
Need a good website for the Episcopal Church.

:hi:

in the Episcopal church. I don't regret that fact because it encouraged me to think. I just quit after getting a belly full of rampant hypocrisy in the Church. I opened my eyes, studied other religions and philosophies and am content in my beliefs. I find it no longer necessary to attend any church. I believe life is eternal, in the Good Commandments, free will and the dangers of worship and idolization.

homosexuals as they are. True, they may not like to talk about their prejudice. They may not march in an anti-gay parade or cheer when homosexuals are harrassed or killed for their sexuality. On the other hand, they do nothing to rectify the situation. They sit silent while human beings are discriminated against, marginalized, because Christianity has decided to heed biblical passages condemning sodomy but not those upholding incest. In my opinion these people are culpable. They don't speak up because they agree with the position held by the Church. They let the Church do their dirty work, because they haven't got the courage to admit to their bigotry. I was raised a Catholic, and I don't believe I'm off the mark here.

Fuck them...

RL

avoid creating a public scandal, Bishop Pukazoid, you putrid, hypocritical, bigotted moron!

:thumbsdown:

...."avoid creating a public scandal." Hey, makes sense to me! :crazy:

this is the same church that turned a blind eye to children being raped, right?

by the thousands each year!
Maybe we'll get a progressive new pope soon.
"sigh"

my gawd. when did the catholic church start worrying about "scandal"?

http://www.10news.com/news/4297683/detail.html

Mr. McCusker, the article notes, will be given funeral rites at the San Diego Episcopalian cathedral, whose leader is quoted saying:

"Our basic philosophy at the cathedral is whoever you are and wherever you find yourself on the journey of faith, we welcome you," said the Rev. Scott Richardson, St. Paul's dean.

As an Episcopalian, I am once again proud of my church and it's welcome to all God's children. We're not where we should be completely yet, but we're definitely moving in the right direction.

If I did something wrong hit the alert and tell the moderators. Thank you.

Don

holy ground after masses in Churches. Right. No hypocrisy there.

I'm from Boston, and the Vatican PROMOTED Cardinal Law, though he was complicit in covering up pedophilia and sheltering priests. I have no love for the current Church.

They were to ashamed to show up (I hear Father Bob is going to buy the bar).
:evilgrin:

I'm a Catholic. And this is why I've turned away.

I had a friend who I've know since I was six who was one of the victims of molestation by our parish priest. They do NOTHING about that situation (the family has been shunned from the parish), but then they pull this shit? I'm so sick of it I could scream.

i'm done w/ them. my daughter's friend was molested and they transferred the priest off somewhere. same w/ one of the Brothers who taught at her hs. transferred him to east coast. the Brother even wrote to me once asking for a boy's address ( whom he supposedly 'bothered' ) and when i said i knew nothing of the boy, which i didn't, i never heard from Brother X again.

edit to add i wrote to the San Diego Diocese to protest this recent incident.

lots of reasons, Auntie . . . lots and lots and lots of reasons . . .

http://www.diocese-sdiego.org/FrameNews.htm

under press releases

Here's the statement:We have become aware that an organized campaign is distorting the action of the Bishop in order to advance its agenda and to silence those whose moral convictions are at variance with its own.

Once again, in order to avoid public scandal, John McCusker was denied a funeral in a Catholic church or chapel in the Diocese of San Diego because of his business activities which were contrary to Sacred Scripture and the moral teaching of the Church. The Bishop acted as he did so that the faithful would not be misled and erroneously conclude that the Church condones activities such as those included in the businesses of Mr. McCusker.



It is a mistake to interpret this pastoral action as a condemnation of Mr. McCusker. He should be in our prayers for the blessing of eternal life.


Pure and simple..it's hypocritical. Jesus talks about taking the log out of your own eye before dealing with the one in your neighbor's...the bishop would do well to read that part of the scripture.

http://www.diocese-sdiego.org/PressReleases/PDFs/John%20McCusker_Information%20Regarding%20RE-BAR.htm

Information Regarding RE-BAR:

· Advertising slogans include:

· Real Men, No Rules!

· Tired of Playing with Boys, Come Play with Men!

· Gay porn stars from XXX videos are scheduled to appear at RE-BAR on March 30th.

Information Regarding CLUB MONTAGE:

A porn video entitled “The Seekers”
notes that it was filmed at Club Montage.

Oh, so it's about porn, is it? I certainly hope no Catholic from the largely SoCal-based straight porn industry lives in the San Diego diocese... oh silly me, they're only behaving like this because it's gay porn.

Date: March 18, 2005

From: Rodrigo Valdivia, Chancellor

Re: Statement on McCusker Funeral



We have become aware that an organized campaign is distorting the action of the Bishop in order to advance its agenda and to silence those whose moral convictions are at variance with its own.

Once again, in order to avoid public scandal, John McCusker was denied a funeral in a Catholic church or chapel in the Diocese of San Diego because of his business activities which were contrary to Sacred Scripture and the moral teaching of the Church. The Bishop acted as he did so that the faithful would not be misled and erroneously conclude that the Church condones activities such as those included in the businesses of Mr. McCusker.

It is a mistake to interpret this pastoral action as a condemnation of Mr. McCusker. He should be in our prayers for the blessing of eternal life.

Information on which the decision was based.

________________________________________________________________
The Actual News release is here:

http://www.diocese-sdiego.org/set.asp?link=PressReleases.asp&in=News

http://www.diocese-sdiego.org/set.asp?link=PressReleases.asp&in=News

which were contrary to Sacred Scripture and the moral teaching of the Church" are. Deceased was running two gay bars. So, was it the gay factor, or the alcohol? Duh.

...have had funerals in the Imaculata.

A lot of people here in San Diego are pissed about this. The RCC is going to lose some members over it, and rightly so.

If they're trying to say that owning a gay bar somehow contributes to sexual immorality, then the same could be said of any club or bar where the "meat meets to meet meat".

I know from personal experience that an evening of convivial drinking and dancing at a local pub can led to fornication. In fact, I was disappointed if it didn't!

I was raised catholic but I no longer believe in an institution that preaches morality out of one side of its mouth and acts against it own doctrines of compassion out of the other side of its mouth.

Personally, no catholic priest will come near my dead body. I'm being cremated. They have no power or hot line with god, and their little 'sprinkling and mummery' have no influence on the Divine nor the standing of your soul in anafterlife. I see this article only as another example of the Catholic church's arrogance and hypocracy.

They have no power over your soul! They never did. Once you understand that, you're free! Free from mental moonshine and mass moronism.

The family members of this person should denounce the church publically and hold their own 'funeral rite'. Something so personal would be far more meaningful than the pre-packaged gibbering they'll offer over the casket.

a heart attack?

...hiree who started work the same day as I did dropped dead of a heart attack walking to the break area for our first coffee break right in front of me. We were both 18 years old at the time. The nurse said he was dead before he hit the floor.

Don

18

why aren't you staying to fight the good fight? How can the Church change if you leave? Is this a reason for leaving the Church or an excuse for not getting up early on a Sunday morning? How about the many other obligations a Catholic faces (feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for the sick etc..)

When mass murderers and child rapist priests can receive Catholic funeral rites and be buried in the "sacred" ground of a Catholic cemetery but a gay bar owner can not it becomes obvious to me something is very wrong. If you wish to ignore this that is fine with me. I will go my way and it is your right to go yours. I hope I have answered your question. And good luck to you and yours.

Don

views of the Pope is actively discouraged. Why fight a historically losing battle? There are other similar enough religions. Contributing to the decline of this hypocritical cult by leaving is the most effective statement I believe that can be made. You can still contribute to and participate in charitable causes. The Catholic Church doesn't hold a monopoly on these social responsibilities. Besides, the Church is so wealthy it could feed the world and resolve many social problems if it so wished, but it's more interested in supporting a kingdom on earth than a place in heaven.

To fight the good fight is to endeavor to free from oppression those under the boot of tyrrany. When the church talks about this I view it as purely lip service. Besides, it was PAUL who talked about this 'fight' not Jesus. Paul wasn't even there. He was a wannabe.

What did Jesus say? LOVE your neighbor as yourself. He did NOT say, "get into a church and support it and IT will fight for you".

Jesus never endorsed organized religion. He endorsed personal communion with the Divine. This is what he practiced, this is what he preached. Brotherly love - unconditionally. In case you weren't aware, that means "NO DOGMA- NO DOCTRINE - NO LEADERS. Man instituted these latter 3 and under the penalty of death in most cases throughout the first 5 centuries. The church rose to power because of a series of LAWS which were enacted to eliminate other forms of worship. They used the boot of tyrrany.

When the church or those affiliated with the church spout rhetoric about helping 'fight' against such insideous bahavior, they might do well to remember that 800,00 Rhuandans were killed and the church did nothing to help. Another 100,000 people have been killed in Darfor and the church has done nothing once again. 100,000 civilians,and as many as 4000 american soldiers are now dead in Iraq and the church (with all it's power, money, influence and holdings) is doing NOTHING once again.

The church has lost its claim to moral authority. And articles like these are just proof that as an institution the christian church is just another power game. The sheep are easily led.

This goat wandered long ago. And he found that God is FREE - no doctrines required.

With religions as with governments, people get the form they deserve if they refuse to do anything about it.

have never been rooted out of the catholic church....the great whore of the 7 hills still keeps mankind oppressed.

Is it perfect? No. Are the members always right? No. Do bishops engage in spectacular screw-ups? They've been doing it for years. The Church is a work in progress. We're working on getting it right.Change is happening. I'm starting to wonder if some here would rather see the Church remain unchanged so they can hold on to their anger at it.

The church has demonstrated it's lack of ability to be honest in it's canturies of cover-ups, payoff and lies. Rome was built on indulgences. What ever happened to "give your possessions and follow me"? Oh that's just an ideal we ascribe to some guy back in the first century.

There is no prerequisite of being Catholic or christian in order to 'feed the hungry, clothe the poor and shelter the homeless'. Those virtuous acts are not the sole propriety of christianity. They are a timeless call to service which has been the hallmark of all religions since many centuries before christianity was invented.

Christianity has no monopoly on truth. Spirituality exists without religion. The pilgrims left their homes too. And for good reason.