Tiger Future not Burning Bright-Nearing Extinction

My Comment: I need not ever see or be near a tiger, but I do not want our world to be without them.

Tiger future not burning bright
By Sugita Katyal in Sariska
23mar05

It's been months since anybody heard a tiger roar in Sariska and activists fear the story may be the same in sanctuaries across India, which has almost half the world's surviving tigers.

"It's probably the biggest conservation scandal in modern times," said Belinda Wright, executive director of the Wildlife Protection Society of India "There are some parks with none or so few tigers it's not a viable population. Sariska has been an incredible wakeup call."

A recent World Wide Fund-India report says there may be no tigers left in Sariska, a rich deciduous forest which until last year was home to about 16-18 tigers, but where you now only see stunning peacocks and delicate spotted dear roam freely.

<snip>

A shrinking habitat and drought are further pushing India's tigers towards extinction: according to government figures, the tiger population fell to 3642 in 2001 from 4334 in 1989. A century ago, there were an estimated 40,000 tigers in India. "But we'd be very lucky if it's even 2000, going by some recent seizures," said Wright. "Every tiger reserve in India without exception suffers from habitat pressure and poaching."

http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,12634050%255E401,00.html

who needs carnivores? Cruelty on the hoof is all they are.

Sure, keep some in zoos, for science.
but end their presence in the wild.
this planet has enough suffering without tigers adding to it. Tigers have bad personality traits also. Agressive. Who needs that?
Not me. Not human society in general. Aggressive populations begin wars.

we need more of Sweden's International institute for Peace Studies. in stockholm.

I think I'll hold my tongue until I have a firmer handle on what you are trying to say there. Are you being sarcastic?

esteemed morris,

just put yourself in the place of the antelope. Dont condone tigers. If a human does that tiger/antelope behavior to another human, we lock up the criminal. And justly so.

Same applies to sport fishing with cruel hooks. How would you feel with a hook down your throat, like a fish? End it, i say. Humane killing if that is needed, for food. Kosher .. i think.. is a preceedent for my view. My view is not as unheard of as you may think. Been around since the old testament kosher laws.

as buddha said, suffering is the problem.

the mice, think of the poor mice

<sarcasm>

Exotic fire ants have invaded a corner of my garage. I guess it's time to move out of the house. I wouldn't want to harm any animals.

</sarcasm>

you would consign a species to extinction because it does not conform to your concept of human morality? I suppose all cats, dogs, bears, weasels, shrews, snakes, spiders, wasps and etc gotta go too? Where do you get off with such simpleminded horseshit? These species have evolved over the eons to do what they do to survive. Now they've gotta go in order to conform to your peculiar interpretation of the Buddha's teaching?

Part of the problem with humankind today is that we do not put ourselves in the place of the antelope. This leads to a lack of appreciation of how Nature works. You are a prime example. Have you never heard of Yin and Yang? Does the beauty of a functional ecosystem only stir revulsion in you? Do you support the drilling in ANWR so that the predators might be destroyed while the caribou warm their tootsies by the pipelines?

Unfuckingbelievable.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever seen at DU. Seriously. Tigers kill other animals (and when you say antelopes I believe you're thinking of lions, not tigers) because they need them to eat. Humans don't sport fish or kill each other for food. There is no valid comparison between what a tiger does and anything else you've mentioned. Carnivores are as much a part of the natural process of life and death as amoebas.

And I very much doubt that Buddha would blame a tiger for being a tiger.

If their populations go unchecked, they have population explosions just as is happening to deer in many parts of North America.

And besides, they taste good.

This has *got* to be a troll.

"as buddha said, suffering is the problem"

Buddha said that suffering is inevitable. Don't think making tigers extinct is going to change that.

It's absolutely ridiculous to condemn a species for natural behavior. I don't think I've ever heard anything so silly.

Show me where Buddha said, "suffering is the problem"

They are doing anything for me.

They don't have any oil!

They're so beautiful and wild. One of the things I want to do before I die is to pet a tiger.

What human beings are doing to the world is unconscionable.

Priorities, people! Oil makes your car go. Can tigers do that?

Hmm...Maybe we could turn tigers into oil?

*ponders*

Nah, I'd rather have the tigers safe, sound and kept around.

I did get to 'pet' another tiger at the same compound - he loved being scratched between the ears! Of course there was a huge fence between me and him so I could only get a couple fingers through to give him a little scratch. But, he loved it! Romeo was just a big kitty. And if he *really* liked you, he'd whizz on you, marking you as 'his'.

These tigers were rescued from dumb humans who tried to keep them as pets. Some were found in abandoned trailers, others tied to light poles in grocery parking lots when they got too big to handle and feed. One idiot was going to have one of them declawed - until he was rescued and saved from that:



This is Connor, sleeping or rolling around in the dirt. They love to play with bowling balls, batting them around.



This is Jellybean, one of I think 2 white tigers at the compound. Jellybean isn't too bright but he's a sweetie!



This is Shalimar, I think Connor's mate in the enclosure. Or maybe Romeo's (the one I was scratching).

_ _ _ _ _

Tigers are beautiful. I've been utterly disgusted with how humans treat them, with such cruelty and disrespect - and stupidity. They're wild animals and should be preserved and left in the wild, safe from development and poachers - but it will never happen. Humans are too dumb...and greedy.

(edit: fix paths...add more info)

I am disgusted, also.

Triana, those pictures you posted of the tigers are absolutely amazing.

...the photos don't even do them justice.

I have been a WWF member for 20 years and the demise of the tiger has been one of my greatest fears. I thought the Siberian tiger would go next. The Sumatran tiger is indeed extinct already. When my first baby was born 10 years ago I always wondered if tigers would be around when he reached adulthood. We are killing this planet when the carnivores are disappearing.

:(

"We are killing this planet when the carnivores are disappearing."

I've read this statement before - from evolutionists and scientists.

:scared:

Sure looks like it. I did some volunteer work there about 10 years ago building fences for a new serval enclosure. Had a great time too. It was incredible to get so close to the tigers that they could be scratched or lick your hand.

I volunteered there recently (few years ago). They're thriving and are now approved for 'public' tours. They continue to do great work rescuing and caring for these displaced and sometimes abused carnivores.

It's a remarkable place and a remarkable effort.

http://www.cptigers.org

Check out Romeo under 'tigers'! Read how he was rescued from an abusive idiot. His enclosure mate is Shalimar...

...I wasn't supposed to be doing it. They frown on it - heavily - 'cause it's dangerous! I wasn't a 'regular' volunteer, though. I was only there for a short time to work on a specific project. They may train or allow regulars to pet the big cats. Mostly, it was only the smaller ones they'd let us pet or scratch (with their knowledge). One of the flirty little snow leopards used to get people to pet him - then he'd lop off a finger. A few ppl were missing fingers 'cause of him. So it can happen even with the smaller cats.

I took my chances. Romeo is a tad hard to resist when the 600-800 lb monster kitty chuffles, and rubs against the enclosure and wants his ears scratched. Heart-melting...Me. Dumb. In love with Tiggers. Don't do it. They'll toss ya out on your ear.

I'll keep hoping, though.

They don't like you doing that at CPT (petting tiggers), but there was a huge fence between me and Romeo. He mighta gotten a finger at most, but he couldn't get an arm between the chain link. He did pee on me though...big ol whizzer.

;)

My dh, who is a truly wonderful person, tried, for my birthday, to get the two zoos in our area to let me pet a tiger. They all said absolutely not, it's too dangerous.

But what about baby tigers? I know they're wild animals and dangerous, but still...

...raising them in captivity, but it appears that will be all we have left soon.

we have a similar facility down here in Tampa called "big cat rescue"; they take in retired circus animals and exotic pets (with stories like those of your tigers). They take excellent care of them there; they get daily enrichment, interaction, and have large, natural enclosures-but nothing the people at Big Cat Rescue can do will ever replace a tiger's rightful place in the wild. Most of their tigers are fixed, so they'll never be contributing to the gene pool. :-(

My mom and I doing operant conditioning with "Muffy":



The big guy on the bottom is Sher Khan; he's older, and a real sweetie (half Bengal/ half Siberian).

Anyone interested in a day tour, photo safari or cabin stay at big cat rescue (all proceeds go to the upkeep of the cats-over 250 of all species) can go to www.bigcatrescue.com

...It's so sad how these animals end up. It's great that these orgs are there to care for them, but truely, they belong in the wild. At least they have bigcatrescue, cpt and other orgs to help them have a decent life after humans interfered. I have to just consider that to keep myself from getting too sad.

are like the ones down here; chuffing, purring and rubbing when they get to see their people (not many people allowed into the refuge each day). BCR has a tiger named Conan and a cougar (whose name I've forgotten) who were both abused by their previous owners, and they still show fear when anyone approaches their cages. It's heartbreaking to think of the cruelty they've endured.

Back when I worked at Disney animation, our lead animator for Simba was giving me some pointers on drawing lions. He said "just study your housecats; all cats, whether tabby or tiger, move the same way and behave the same way". I didn't really believe that until I met the tigers, lions, panthers, snow leopards and other cats at Big Cat Rescue and got to know them; they were indeed oddly like giant housecats (and very magnificent ones at that)!

...they chuffle, and grunt and rub and want to get scratched and want to play. They're just big kitties. More dangerous and wild than my little housecat but the behaviors are very similar! CPT doesn't allow large groups either. Some of the cats get freaked out when their enclosure is surrounded by too many people. They feel trapped or like something bad is gonna happen to them. At some point in their lives, this may have been the case. :(

Romeo can't stand certain males for some reason. There was a keeper who'd come by to fill his water pan. Romeo roared and reared up and charged his cage when the guy approached. The guy probably reminded him of his captor/owner from whom Romeo was rescued, or so that's the theory. After the keeper filled the pan, Romeo would go over and swat the pan with his huge front paw unil the water was gone, then he flipped the pan out of its holder onto the ground. The guy made Romeo extremely agitated. No one knows why. God knows what that poor tiger endured when captured and kept. He was the one found tied to a light pole I believe. The idiot was going to have Romeo declawed and defanged.

UNbelievable...Thankfully, CPT was there to rescue Romeo and he has had a nice life there - and he still has his lovely teefies and clawzies - like a tigger oughtta have.

Poor guy...

I've been getting their newsletter for years, and I think they just recently changed their name.

I've wanted to visit them for years. You're lucky to live close enough to volunteer there. I've always had a major thing for tigers and wolves, ever since reading "The Jungle Book" at age 7 or so. In every version, from the written to the animated to the live-action, Shere Khan is my favorite character.

It's gotten so that I don't even want to think about the damage humans are doing to the planet and its other inhabitants, because I find myself just hating all of humanity in response.

actually, I've just gone for the day safaris-I've never volunteered (though I would love to). training the cats is part of the "safari"; it's fun for them and for you, plus a well trained tiger doesn't need to be tranquilized for routine vet visits. I do the same type of training with my Maine Coon, and he just loves it!

And I know what you mean about thinking about what humanity is doing to the earth and everything that lives on it; it can make one wish to become a complete recluse from the rest of one's kind. :-(

is possible, but petting is limited to bobcats, lynx, caracals, and servals...unless you volunteer there, then you can give the BIG kitties a scratch! ( when I hand fed a barbary lion half a chicken and felt his teeth crunch through the bone like it was a trisket, then I had no interest in petting the big kitties, lol)!

On edit; there is a place here in Central Florida that does a weekend course in wild animal handling, and you can get certified to handle big cats. It's illegal in the state of Florida to pet a big cat over the age of 7 months (I think that's the cut off) without certification (a "big cat" is anything the size of a clouded leopard or bigger; Siberian lynx-the size of a german shephard-and smaller are OK).

Thanks!

Not that I'm in a position finacially to do anything about it, but I would like to keep this info in a file for a couple years from now.

prevails everywhere. It all comes down to the almighty dollar, doesn't it?? That ugly sense of entitlement people have has destroyed so much. And continues to, only on a far faster track than ever before.

Tiger, tiger, burning bright,
In the forests of the night:
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

In what distant deeps or skies,
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand dare seize the fire?

And what shoulder, and what art,
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
And when thy heart began to beat,
What dread hand? and what dread feet?

What the hammer? what the chain?
In what furnace was the brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?

When the stars threw down their spears,
And watered Heaven with their tears,
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?

Tiger, tiger, burning bright,
In the forest of the night:
What immortal hand or eye
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?

(William Blake : The Tiger)

http://www.portablepoetry.com/poems/william_blake/the_tiger.html

Then they'll be safe.

why don't they call a spade a spade? India's population is totally out of control, due to exceed China in the near future. And then there is the market for the bogus Chinese "traditional medicine". Sympathetic magic dick medicine I call it.

Of course we find our own excuses to exterminate Nature and hold no moral high ground.

Thank you for doing so, even if merely raising the issue of population control is enough to get you flamed, even here on DU.

Bottom line: Human overpopulation will drive thousands of species to extinction over the next few decades. More humans = loss of habitats, depletion of resources and poisoning of the environment. Sadly, despite the hue and cry there seems to be little effort to address the root problem: HUMAN OVERPOPULATION!

I'm a human and I get downright testy when people elevate animals above my sentient being. I, with a complete cerebral cortex, eat animals. But never a tiger steak. I should really be really flaming that idiot above whose never even tasted antelope, but trust me, humans are the most beautiful mammals on the planet. ANd other creatures like us, just ask dogs.

I don't think that we are the only sentients on this planet. The great apes certainly are, I say this from personal experience. Many workers consider the whales and dolphins to be sentient. Elephants may also make the cut, again my personal experience leans that way.

In any case sentience may well be overrated, considering the way we are destroying the biosphere.

and most animals run from other animals until they feel safe. Then maybe they will circle back and warily approach or they may keep running.

It is unwise to crap in your nest and yet you continue to do so MANkind. That doesn't seem so sapient to me. And by the way who named you Homo Sapiens Sapiens that seems a little arrogant. Oh you did that yourself.

With such "Big Brains" why are humans destroying their life source and each other? Maybe it's more heart that we need.

It's a beautiful world, we are just a small part of it.

you'll notice that many, many members of the human race are far from "beautiful". What other animals kills it's own in such vast numbers? What other animal destroys it's own environment, often only for additional baubles to decorate it's nest? Ask a dog whose owner has beaten and starved it, and it might have a different opinion of mankind.

Sentience in our case does not always elevate us to any great level of importance. I'd chose the company of most dogs over that of a dittohead republican, and I think a tiger is of far greater value to the planet than any neo-con.

I completely agree with your comment on human overpopulation. When I was a grade school student about twelve years old in the mid fifties, yup, fifty years ago, I was a firm believer in human population control and of course still am. Needless to say, I was excoriated to a degree that would now be considered child abuse. Considering that the attitude appears to be unchanged, it is of little comfort to know that I was correct. It is my observation that many people who are electing to not have children are the some of the best educated and who have the resources to raise a child.

...no one wants to acknowledge that or DO anything about it, but I believe it is part of the issue.

Oh, you're talking about REAL tigers...never mind...

:crazy:
rocknation

One would do well to live in accordance with Her.

We all suffer when we abuse our brothers and sisters. The tiger is one of the most gorgeous creatures to ever grace the earth.

The planet is turning grey and the humans have lost the way.

The Arrogance of Humanism-the worlds most dangerous and cultish philosophy.

This is so thoroughly depressing. I love big cats, always have, always will. Tigers aren't top of the list for me (that'd be lions) but they're still beautiful animals who deserve better treatment than our imbecilic species gives them. :cry:

this is so very sad! :cry:

and the largest member of the cat family. How tragic.

We must make space for nature or one day we will find ourselves pushed out of what's left of the ecosystem.

Tigers going extinct and coral reefs dying.

Maybe when we are gone she can recover and start anew with the remaing life. Hope my favorite species--the cat family--in all its myriad shapes and sizes will still be here to live on.