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CNN Breaking--2-1-- 11th Circuit refuses to Order Reinsert of Tube-Schiavo

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:38 AM
Original message
CNN Breaking--2-1-- 11th Circuit refuses to Order Reinsert of Tube-Schiavo
Just Breaking, as of 2:36 a.m. No links Yet, and the appeal continues on the substantive filings. This refers to the request for reinsert only.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good. Let the poor woman die in peace...
...that is the only way she'll ever get those parasites off her body.

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airfoil Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. I don't get this...
If her parents want to keep her alive and are willing to pay, why are they not being permitted to do so?
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. Sweety she's already dead
let her go.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #39
80. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
all.of.me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #80
112. it's not just right wingers!
on mondays, my 11 year old's school has a special class held by a counselor who works with kids. this guy seems informed and somewhat progressive, but my daughter came home telling me that terri smiles and talks. i was shocked! it showed me how many people have not read up on this case and what it means to have no cerebral cortex.

i spend a lot of time with my kids' schools enlightening them on one thing or another, so i'm feeling like ... here we go again.
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MollyStark Donating Member (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #39
122. I know facts are stupid things
but she isn't dead. If she were they wouldn't have to starve her to death would they?
Just so you know, I am not proposing keeping her alive.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #122
151. Her body is alive only
her brain has been dead for years. Let her go.
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #31
42. Because she's not a piece of property
She said she wouldn't want life support and she has the right to refuse it even if she's incapacitated.

The parents said they don't care what she wanted and wouldn't honor her wishes even if she told them she wouldn't want this, they would continue it anyway. Why would Michael turn her over to such sicko's?
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
50. It's not about what her parents want.
It's about what Terri Schiavo would have wanted had she a say in this. Numerous courts and judges have decided that she would not have wanted this for herself.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #31
51. Terri is on MEDICAID...You'd be paying for it. The parents took her home
and COULDN'T manage her care because she's BRAIN DEAD.

Let Terri GO PEOPLE.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #31
54. It's not about her parents, it's about HER
The only one who seems to be honoring the woman's wishes is the husband. I don't think the poor woman should continue to live a tortured, unaware half existence to make her PARENTS feel better.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
55. Her parents want to keep her like a pet Gerbile
In a cage.

In fact she's getting so much better according to her mother, she'll soon be singing and dancing on Broadway in the Revival of "SHOWBOAT"
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #31
56. Because under Florida law, the spouse can make the decision
Any more stupid questions?

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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
74. They took her home in 1990, brought her back after 2 weeks...
Three witnesses testified that Terri would not want this. This is Terri's rights. She is not their minor child.
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
81. I don't get why people don't educate themselves
and find out just WHY the parents are not permitted to do so.

But that's me.

Welcome to DU.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #81
100. Because facts would interfere with their beliefs, emotions and
agendas. After all, why read what the court has to say when you can bloviate at will based on feelings. The Repukes have another election to win in 2006, based on feelings and values, and facts would get in the way.

(sarcasm)
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #81
101. Because facts would interfere with their beliefs, emotions and
agendas. After all, why read what the court has to say when you can bloviate at will based on feelings. The Repukes have another election to win in 2006, based on feelings and values, and facts would get in the way.

(sarcasm)
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DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #31
99. Her parents aren't paying a cent for all this.
Right to Life and Anti-Abortion groups all over the nation and the world are paying for all these court battles. They are working round-the-clock to keep the money flowing.

While.. in the Sudan THOUSANDS of LIVE children, women, and men are MURDERED every single day --- and has * or any of those compassionate conservatives said a thing? done a thing?

Sanctimonious assholes.
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #99
116. That's a great picture!Are those your pets? nt
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #31
113. her husband is trying to respect his wifes expressed wishes
to die rather than be kept "alive" by medical means. He is trying to do what SHE wanted done, otherwise he could have divorced her and let the parents keep her in this living hell.

he was offered a million dollars recently to do just that and turned it down - because he is honoring her express wishes.

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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #113
129. even more, actually
he was offered ten million dollars to divorce her. That's even more than Indecent Proposal. Think about that, would you divorce your spouse for ten million dollars? the man managed a McDonald's he's never going to see ten million bucks. and he turned it down.

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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #31
120. I understand your feelings, airfoil --
welcome to DU, by the way :hi:

I went through this issue as well. Since she can't think or feel, what's the harm in letting her parents care for her. She doesn't know she's in the state she's in, so what's the harm to her?

But, I realized it isn't about that. It is about HER right not to be kept alive through technology if that's what she wanted. Even if one doubts the motives of her husband, there is still evidence that this is what she wanted. To doubt that, one has to think that the courts and the judges who decided that had some evil, ulterior motive for killing her (that's what I heard Randall Terry allege on some TV show) and that's just crazy.

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airfoil Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #120
126. Makes perfect sense, thanks
I wasn't aware that her wishes were that she not be kept alive. I haven't been following this much at all and suddenly it's everywhere. If she didn't want all these machines then that should be respected.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #31
123. Terri is NOT alive
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 10:39 AM by rocknation
Terri the person died when her brain did. She has no concsciouness, she feels no pain. She now has liquid where her brain used to be, so recovery is impossible.

Terri's body is being kept functional artificially, which is pointless because she's as brain dead as you can get. As the legal next of kin, her widower husband has simply been trying to exercise his legal right to put a stop to it. He has also excercised his right to try to get on with his life. It's not possible to "cheat" on someone who's dead--or to "divorce" them.

Keeping Terri's body functioning artificially udner these circumstances is cruel and unusal punishment no matter who wants to do it.

:headbang:
rocknation
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #31
138. Where did you hear her parents were paying?
On Pigboy's show? Medicare and a $1 million award garnered by an evil trial lawyer have paid every penny.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #31
139. Her parents don't have the legal authority
Only her husband has the right to make the decision.

If he died or divorced her, the parents would take on the role of next of kin.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #31
142. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nobody in this country accepts court rulings as final anymore
They appeal. And appeal. And appeal. And appeal.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. they better hurry
nt
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. What a travesty for the poor and middle class!
How can any AVERAGE party afford to defend. And defend. And defend. And defend?
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
41. Defend what?
:shrug:
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #41
117. It appears there are "at least" two parties involved,
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 10:19 AM by SimpleTrend
not counting the courts, congress, or other interested parties.

The Schindler's attorney, David Gibbs, had told the court Schiavo was "fading quickly" and death was imminent. But George Felos, a lawyer for Terri Schiavo's husband and guardian, Michael Schiavo, said: "I do not believe it is true. Terri is stable, peaceful and calm."
More...


Apparently, George Felos was in court. If he wasn't defending, then what?
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #117
150. She faded long ago
Let her go. So many of these people believe in Heaven, but they refuse to let some go ahead and go there.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. damn, there is a dissent n/t
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. That's okay--it seems that the dissent focuses on how not
reinserting frustrates the will of Congress, regarding the review....

The dissent may be mooted by finding the underlying law is unconstitutional--and that ruling may be 3-0.

Don't know yet.....
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. May this poor woman's body join her spirit in rest n/t
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gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #5
38. Amen!
Go gently, and rest easy, Terri. For what your family has put you through, you deserve to rest in the arms of God.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #38
97. It has made me wonder if the fundies and freeps believe in
Heaven anymore. Maybe they are too afraid of death for themselves because their own lives have been so wretched and evil.
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. Fortunately the Republicans were slow to act
While it seemed like they were acting rapidly in passing the law over the weekend, they were probably too slow in taking this to the federal courts. If they had given Federal courts jurisdiction before the tube was out, I bet it would have been far easier to get the courts to agree to maintain the status quo until the case was heard and order that the tube be kept in. Now that it is out, there is a higher hurdle to pass to get them to intervene to order it back in.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Don't think they didn't set it up that way......n/t
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. That's my thought too. They want her to be a martyr...
Callous as they are, of course they don't really care if she lives at this point. Only how her "story" will serve their broader political agenda and "base."

I think we really need to start discussing that Bill that Bush instituted when he was Governor in Texas which allowed hospitals to pull the plug on Life Support on people who couldn't afford it. THAT's the story that needs to get out here. It's all about the bottom-line to them. Period.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #32
52. Ten bucks says we'll be hearing Terri Schiavo's name
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 03:49 AM by deadparrot
at the 2008 GoOP convention.

At this point, they want her to die, so they can rail about how us liberals love death and get our jollies by pulling people's feeding tubes and killing babies. If Terri Schiavo lives, they won't have anything to whine about to their fundie base.

Life as usual in the Republican party.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
57. They WANT that woman to die, make no mistake!
They want to use her to rile up the "right to lifer" base (who have gotten a lot of words, but no deeds, for their slavish devotion) and this whole charade was a way to throw them a bone.

But they actually want her dead--if they somehow succeeded with this absurdity, then any time a non-custodial relative didn't want to pull the plug, it's off to court and WE PAY! They don't even want to give health care to little kids, never mind brain dead patients.

And perhaps most importantly, she'll make a useful martyr, a rallying cry, a touchstone, for their cause.

They like to create a faux perspective that they are "little people" battling "powerful forces" but in truth they own all branches of government. This is nothing more than "bread and circuses" for the far right, who are happiest, it seems, when they are mightily aggrieved in some fashion!
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #57
61. Well stated
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 04:17 AM by saigon68
These sick Fundy Whack Jobs need arousal from time to time.


Its a sick sexual power trip.



Like Jimmy Swaggert who used to purchases sex from $10.00 a trick, flea bag, street walkers

"OH I Have Sinned", he said.




Just as Swaggart had been so methodical on digging up the dirt on Gorman, Marvin decided to return the favor by having Swaggert followed by a private detective. This eventually led to the Travel Inn in LakeCharles, Louisiana where for twenty bucks a pop, Swaggert was having his way with a hooker by the name of Debra Murphree. It was outside the Motel that Gorman took video tapes of Swaggart with Ms. Murphree.


In an interview she gave in Penthouse magazine, Murphree claimed that Swaggert made inquiries about her nine year old daugter. Swaggert was also a cheap customer as he tried to haggle Murphree down from $20 to $10 during one particular session. Swaggart said that since on that particular day he only wanted her to pose for him, it shouldn’t cost more than $10. Murphree stuck to her minimum of $20 and I’m sure there was no tip.
But Jimmy-boy was not finished with his sinful ways.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. Who wants to bet they try to take it to Scalia now?
Take it Directly to THE Activist Judge.

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Kennedy oversees the 11th Circuit. n/t
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. In the past he's ruled federal courts have no role in this
From USA Today:

n 1990, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the family of a comatose patient, Nancy Cruzan, could remove her feeding tube if they presented evidence to Missouri officials that doing so would have been her choice. In an opinion supporting that decision, Justice Antonin Scalia (news - web sites) wrote that the Constitution "has nothing to say about the subject" and that federal courts have "no business in the field."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&e=7&u=/usatoday/20050322/ts_usatoday/shifttofederalcourtraisesnewsetofquestionsincase

Will he stick by this, or will he flip flop?
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. No
the appeal goes to Kennedy first. He's unlikely to accept it. I don't think Scalia can do anything by himself.
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pacifictiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. They've tried to get it
before the supreme court already and have been turned down 3 times!
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
118. Actually I am not so sure Scalia would agree to hear the case-he is
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 10:08 AM by yellowcanine
fairly big on state's rights (at least until Bush v Gore) and he is trying to appear moderate these days in case Bush nominates him to be Chief Justice. Furthermore - If they don't agree to hear the case, no one will know what his vote was, whereas if they hear the case his viewpoint will become known - which is probably not what he wants now.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. Praise the Lord! He (actually SHE) has spoken! AMEN!
:bounce:

Rest in Peace dear Terri....

Namaste
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Princess Turandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. Yahoo has the AP story up:
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 02:48 AM by Princess Turandot
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050323/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman

federal appeals court refused early Wednesday to order the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, denying an emergency request by the severely brain-damaged woman's parents.

The three-judge panel ruled 2-1 to deny the request, a day after a federal judge in Florida also refused a similar appeal.


Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, vowed yet another appeal Wednesday.


"The Schindlers will be filing an appropriate appeal to save their daughter's life," said Rex Sparklin, an attorney with the law firm representing the parents"
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ProudToBeLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. How can the parents keep afford all these court battles? nt
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. They've got guys like Randall Terry flipping the bill n/t
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. they're funded
by Richard Mellon-Scaife and other right-wing fucknuts.
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
47. Here's some funding information to give you an idea
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 03:38 AM by moobu2
Jon Eisenberg is a lawyer who's been somewhat involved in the legal issues. He's written several articles about who's financing the Schindlers, here's one.

The Terri Schiavo Case: Following the Money

Schindler lawyer Pat Anderson "was paid directly" by the anti-abortion Life Legal Defense Foundation, which "has already spent over $300,000 on this case," according to the foundation's Web site. Much of the support for Life Legal Defense Foundation, in turn, comes from the Alliance Defense Fund, an anti-gay rights group which collected more than $15 million in private donations in 2002 and admits to having spent money on the Schiavo case "in the six figures," according to a recent article in the Palm Beach Post. Mediatransparency.org states that between 1994 and 2002, the Alliance Defense Fund received $142,000 from Philanthropy Roundtable members that include the Lynde & Harry Bradley Foundation and the Richard and Helen DeVos Foundation.

Wesley Smith and Rita Marker also work for organizations that get funding from Roundtable members. Smith is a paid senior fellow with the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based think tank that advocates the teaching of creationist "intelligent design" theory in public schools. Between 1993 and 1997, the Discovery Institute received $175,000 from the Bradley Foundation. Marker is executive director of the International Task Force on Euthanasia, which lobbies against physician-assisted suicide. In 2001, Marker's organization received $110,390 from the Randolph Foundation, an affiliate of the Smith Richardson family.

Roundtable members also played a role in financing the Bush v. Schiavo litigation.

The Family Research Council, which uses its annual $10 million budget to lobby for prayer in public schools and against gay marriage, filed an amicus curiae brief in Bush v. Schiavo supporting Gov. Bush, at the same time its former president, attorney Kenneth Connor, was representing the governor in that litigation. Between 1992 and 2000, the council received $215,000 from the Bradley Foundation.


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Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. LOL JUDICIAL TYRANNY! LOL
They spoke on the law, this isn't Tyranny, they're simply following the law and precident. Give the judges a break, isn't bad enough one judge has been kicked out of his church over this crap?
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Mike Daniels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
115. Never mind that at least two judges are Republicans
and one of the judges involved with denying reinserting the tube today was appointed by Bush's daddy but that won't make a whit of difference to these loons.

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OilemFirchen Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
114. Hilarious wording
"federal appeals court refused early Wednesday to order the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, denying an emergency request by the severely brain-damaged woman's parents."

Sometimes bad writing is a blessing...
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #114
124. Terri's brain is not damaged
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 10:37 AM by rocknation
it's nonexistent.

:headbang:
rocknation
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OilemFirchen Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #124
135. That too.
But have the parents been tested recently? The sentence seems to imply something I've long suspected...
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. So she may get passed the pearly gates, and the jesus freaks have a
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 02:48 AM by caligirl
problem with this? They apparently don't believe their own bible talk.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Best point made tonight!!!
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. So very true...
It's mind-boggling.
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wellst0nev0ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
15. 22
= # judges now siding with Michael Schiavo.
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iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
19. A wager:
10 theoretical bucks says that when Ms. Shiavo dies, her parents and their handlers sue Mr. Shiavo in civil court for wrongful death.
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. The Schindlers were talking about that
on Hannity & Colmes tonight. Also, Jeb is trying to unseal the Social Service records to dig up dirt on Michael Schiavo.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. this is just flat ass sick ...and he won't be able to file for bankruptcy
protection if they win. We are so fucked in this country ...
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:17 AM
Original message
Speaking of the "Schindler" name...has anyone checked a "family tree"
on Teri's dad? I'm sure it's just coincidental, but the Shrubs did have ties to the Nazi's, as we know. And the Schindler's lived in Jeb's state, right? Why THIS case...and WHY for so many years?

Probably nothing, but...

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
58. He should countersue for defamation! n/t
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #19
128. Another wager
50 theoretical bucks say that when Terri Schiavo dies, Congress is going to hold another "Tom DeLay Midnight Special" to pass a bill of attainder declaring Michael Schiavo guilty of murder.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
20. MSNBC link
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
24. The constitution may still remain
Hallelujah!

And terri go meet your maker... and rest in peace...
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
27. Link to opinion.......
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 03:19 AM by pacoyogi
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200511556.pdf

Takes awhile to load...

Judges Carnes and Hull deny, Wilson dissents, would insert tube pending substantive review. The dissent parrots your basic freeper logic--shame on Judge wilson. He should know better.

On edit---
The Wilson dissent seems to conceed that the Schindler case is weak, but that the injunction should be granted anyway to allow for the substantive review required by law (this idiot law). In fact, Wilson seems to conceed that the Schindlers have not met their burden for a TRO, but, rather, should be granted an injunction under the All Writs Act in order to maintain jurisdiction....an extrodinary measure.

This is a bone. Wilson threw them a bone. It's still possible to get a 3-0 ruling on the underlying issues....
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. The Judges.....
Affirm the District Court:
Ed Carnes is a Bush I appointee, in 1992.

Frank Hull, 1997 President Clinton appointee.


Dissent:
Charles Wilson, 1999 Clinton appointee.
I've read his dissent. He seems very concerned with frustrating Congress. Jeebus....
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sonicx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #28
49. damn activist...opps. nevermind...
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 03:39 AM by sonicx
:P
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
30. Interesting trivia on court which ruled
From AP reports on the decision:

The court also played a role in litigation over the 2000 presidential election, rejecting George W. Bush's request for an emergency order stopping hand recounts in Florida before the U.S. Supreme Court granted it.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #30
87. That is interesting. n/t
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gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
34. I pray this poor woman can finally rest in peace.
The beautiful young woman she was before her brain died would never have wanted to linger this way ... she would never have wanted to have her wasted image plastered all over television in such a disrespectful-of-life fashion -- the feeding tube sticking out of her stomach. God -- it makes me cry.

I'm sure Michael Schiavo just wants to get on with his life. But I think he'd have a case if he wanted to sue a lot of right-wingers for slander and libel -- painting him to be some sort of cynical murderer, a cad, a money-grubber -- all based on a bunch of bullshit hearsay. The wingers basically say he abused her and put her in the vegetative state ... on NO evidence. The court-appointed guardian spoke on "Nightline" last night, and totally shot holes in several of those lies about Michael. For one thing, he said Michael doesn't stand to gain much financially from the trust set up for Terri -- there's hardly any money left in the trust, the guardian said.

Also, it's already been documented that, for the first several years after Terri became brain-dead, Michael drove the health-care workers crazy with demands for superior care for his wife. When he realized nothing would bring her out of her vegetative state, he sought to have her wishes (as stated BY HER to him and his family) carried out -- only to be thwarted by a bunch of people who -- though I have no doubt they love her -- basically want to treat her as a family pet.

Michael Schiavo may be a nice guy or a jerk -- I don't know, and I don't care. But I'd love to see those lying wingers have to apologize publicly for all the rumors and lies they've spread about him in order to ensure a woman in a vegetative state continues to suffer in her mortal body. Damn them!
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #34
119. Speculation on the character of Michael Schiavo
The court records and what we've seen seem to indicate that Michael Schiavo has been a loving, dutiful, and dedicated husband to Terri under the most trying of circumstances. For fifteen years he has been her champion. And he has suffered the slings and arrows of some pretty outrageous slander-mongers in the past couple of days.

But I think, just in the for whatever the fuck it's worth department, there's another person who can give us a pretty good idea of what kind of guy Michael Schiavo is -- the current "Mrs." Schiavo. I know nothing about the woman with whom Michael has had a relationship and two children over the past ten or so years, but I think it's somehow indicative of what kind of guy he is that this "other woman" has stuck by him through what must be hell on wheels for her. He has refused to "divorce" Terri, meaning this "other woman" has had little to no hope of ever being his legal wife until the woman he obviously loves and cares about dies. Can you imagine being in that kind of position? Can you imagine how difficult their relationship must be with Terri essentially in the bed with them? Yet this woman, who as far as I know has never even been named, stands by him.

Mike must be some kinda guy.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
35. The family is fighting the uphill battle of a Black Man condemned to die
This is a last futile attempt to get The Head Bush Criminal as Governor from FRYING a convicted Black man living on death row.

Aka Karla Tucker "Please don't kill me", he mocked.

Amazing how the worm turns. These Fundie Freaks would be all in favor of KILLING THE BLACK MAN. And "sending him to hell"
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. Yes, the irony of the fact that that the Repukes have spent so
much time gutting the habeas protections in this country is not lost on me........
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. I guess Kennedy will probably not pass it up
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 03:32 AM by saigon68
so either they will have to appeal En Banc to the full 11th Circuit or directly to the Scotus.

I think they'll (schindler et al) go right to the Top?

Agree?
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #35
46. I agree that the adminstration is pure evil
But what are you talking about, about killing black men? I don't get it.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. See above reply about GUTTING HABEAS PROTECTIONS
For years the PUKES and their fellow travelers have reveled at how they have stopped Convicted Black men on death row from trying to put off their executions with Habeas Writs in the Federal courts.

Its ironic to me that now, when the PUKES and their Fellow Traveling Fundy Whack Job cohorts could have used the tactic. Its unavailable.

Kind of like Ramses having the angel of death come to his own people after cursing the Jews and ordering their first born KILLED---LOL
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
37. delete
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 03:22 AM by saigon68
For some reason it posted twice
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MattP Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. The judgment
If there was a Judge to go against it, I'm glad it was Clinton put him there and Bush's affirmed the decision.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
44. If they don't hurry up and kill her....
Her mushy cerebral cortex will solidify back into brain tissue...

She'll wake up like in "Wizard Of Oz"...point out the people around her, and say: "I remember it all, you were there, and you....and YOU were trying to kill me!"

The entire court system is trying to avoid this, because Disney owns the rights to the movie, and they have to get around the copyrights first.

But someday, the truth will come out.
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Baconfoot Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #44
53. Don't you think mushy is a bit of an overstatement?
Soggy bread is mushy but at least there is some bread. What we've got here is more like just the sog.
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Pallas180 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #53
59. Apparently since no one has taken an MRI you dont know that-in
fifteen years mri's have come a long way.

And there is something else....tissue regenerates itself. Even people who have strokes grow new pathways to other areas of their brains...but it has to be retrained

The crime here I think is that instead of Randall Terry and the fundamentalist xian jihadists spending money on lawyers to further their wacked out theocratic agenda...they could have been spending the money on therapy for her.

Having dealt with a situation where a person had a massive stroke and the doctors said the person wasn't there...but the nurse told me
the person;s eyes followed her whenever she was inthe room...and the person refused to acknowledge the doctors when they were in the room, but would respond and open eyes and blink yes/no when I was in the room......I have some serious doubts about all of this.

Don't take that to mean I side with the fundies or parents, who said, even is she had written a living will, they would go against it...

I just have my doubt about the reports that Terry isn't there at all.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. And I think the brain is a "Use it or Lose It" organ.
Lack of activity causes it to adapt to an atrophic state.

She's not the same girl she was 10 years ago.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #62
70. Deleted message
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. There are limits to what we can do medically
Oh and ethically this is the right decision, from a medico legal persppective.....

I know people are conflicted on this, but it is the right decision

Oh and as I told my husband and will put it in writing... I am ever in that situation, let me go... pull the plug...

At least in my opinion this also has to do with an incredible fear of death by a certain minority in our country
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #59
68. Deleted message
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sonicx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #68
72. She's had swallow tests and therapy
you don't seem to know the facts.

On 18 June 1990, Michael was formally appointed by the court to serve as Theresa's legal guardian, because she was adjudicated to be incompetent by law. Michael's appointment was undisputed by the parties.

The clinical records within the massive case file indicate that Theresa was not responsive to neurological and swallowing tests. She received regular and intense physical, occupational and speech therapies.

snip

In late Autumn of 1990, following months of therapy and testing, formal diagnoses of persistent vegetative state with no evidence of improvement, Michael took Theresa to California, where she received an experimental thalamic stimulator implant in her brain. Michael remained in California caring for Theresa during a period of several months and returned to Florida with her in January of 1991. Theresa was transferred to the Mediplex Rehabilitation Center in Brandon, where she received 24 hour skilled care, physical, occupational, speech and recreational therapies.

Despite aggressive therapies, physician and other clinical assessments consistently revealed no functional abilities, only reflexive, rather than cognitive movements, random eye opening, no communication system and little change cognitively or functionally.

On 19 July 1991 Theresa was transferred to the Sable Palms skilled care facility. Periodic neurological exams, regular and aggressive physical, occupational and speech therapy continued through 1994.

snip

Three, independent sets of swallowing tests were performed early in Theresa's medical treatment: 1991, 1992 and 1993. Each of these determined that Theresa was not able to swallow without risk of aspiration (and consequent infection).

http://jb-williams.com/ts-report-12-03.htm
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #72
75. Deleted message
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sonicx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #75
77. therapy happened and it didn't work, so they stopped
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 05:40 AM by sonicx
He went to the court on her wishes to not remain on life support and won. This should have be over long ago.

please quote that statement from the guardian.

btw, he doesn't get her money.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Why don't you redirect all that concern to the needless death
of the Hudson baby in Texas? The only reason he died was because his Mother was poor.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #78
106. yes, bush signed a law that allows hospitals to use money as a criteria
for pulling the plug. In other words: unable to pay? you die. Even over the objections of the parents.

I can't help but feel that republicans are selective in their outrage.

:)
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #75
141. Therapy is extremely expensive
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 11:16 AM by Horse with no Name
And it is up to the therapists to evaluate whether or not there is rehab potential.
All that can be done for Terri is to do passive range of motion (which family or nursing staff can do).
She cannot sit by herself.
She cannot move by herself.
What exactly would you like them to do?
Tie her to a treadmill? Throw her in a swimming pool with floaties?
YOu really need to research what type of legitimate and accepted therapy modalities are available for someone in Terri's condition.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #72
96. Deleted message
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #68
85. And YOU think she should have had a subsequent swallow test?
That would have been an absolutely *terrific* idea. Especially since at the point the judge denied it, she had dysphagia and probably would have contracted, and possibly died from, aspiration pnemonia since medically, she wasn't alert and participatory enough to undergo such a test. In fact, had they GIVEN her a swallow test, all this may have been a moot point.

"Okay, Mrs. Schiavo - chew this cracker and swallow. Drink this liquid and swallow." Yarite.

But hey, what's a little food and liquid barium poured into her lungs among friends?

I *love* it when people who don't know what they're talking about convince themselves that they do.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #85
88. Deleted message
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #88
90. You just proved to me that you haven't a clue
what you're talking about.

If you did, you'd never even ask those questions.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #90
91. Deleted message
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. Again,
you have no idea what you're talking about.

But don't worry, there are actually educated people making these decisions.
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chickenscratching Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #91
131. well.
why do they need to find out when her cerebral cortex has atrophied?

"Swallowing requires higher brain function, something vegetables don't have, so a feeding tube is necessary."

http://www.nndb.com/people/435/000026357/

here's another link that explains the brains areas and their functions.
http://www.neuroskills.com/index.shtml?main=/tbi/brain.html


it's unfortunate that it appears there is nothing at this point scientists, doctors or any medical team can do for Terri Schiavo. If one were to present information that could prove that Terri Schiavo could be rehabilitated, then by all means we should help her; but at this time what information is stopping you from believing that Terri Schiavo can come back from a PVS?
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #91
132. but it's not her parents' decision, right?
you actually want her to be a guinea pig? poked and prodded until th purient interests of everyone are satisfied?

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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #88
107. Just curious...
why is every fundie suddenly an self-proclaimed expert on the medical aspects n Schiavo's case? Was there a run on internet-awarded medical degrees and I missed it?

here's an earthshattering revelation for you: ITS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. it is and should be between the family (the husband who has power of attorny) and the doctors to decide her best care/resolution.

why is it SOOOO important for the anti-abortionists to interpose themselves? If the answer is to set a precedent to help them in their fight against abortion, then I say you are being transparent in your mercenary abuse of an innocent to further your political goals...which makes you ghoulish and soulless. IMHO
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justsomegirl Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #107
125. Yeah-
Lerkfish said:
Was there a run on internet-awarded medical degrees and I missed it?

Yeah, The Leadership Institute set up one of those weekend medical degree programs since the weekend journalism program worked out so well.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #88
121. Yes, we all know how slanted the media can be
TO THE RIGHT.

Anyone who thinks the media is slanted to the left can only have one agenda.

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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #68
95. We're Democrats
Not democrats. Big difference.

Oh, and welcome to DU.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #68
108. Deleted message
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #59
69. Nobody could be spending money on her therapy.
It's up to the husband to decide if she gets therapy or not.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. Deleted message
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sonicx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. She's not alone. He's been with her much of the time...
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 05:17 AM by sonicx
Probably right now too. She feels nothing, so it doesn't matter.

Second, he doesn't control the money and barely any's left.
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #69
89. In actuality, any speech-language pathologist
who would perform swallowing or speech therapy on Mrs. Schiavo would probably be brought up on disciplinary charges by ASHA and censured.

It's against our code of ethics to provide therapy and receive compensation in cases where there would likely be no benefit to the patient.

In addition, any SLP or radiologist who tried to perform a swallow test on Mrs. Schiavo would be a prime target for a malpractice suit, since she would not be able to participate in the test. You don't just pour barium in someone's mouth and "hope" they can swallow.

Unless you think that every professional is part of a grand scheme devised by Mr. Schiavo, you need to realize the ideas you are putting forth are not valid. Educate yourself.

http://tinyurl.com/6lxgs
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. Deleted message
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #93
94. I don't know of one SLP or radiologist
who would take on the personal liability risk of causing aspiration.

To give her a swallow test is against every protocol I've ever worked under in a hospital or SNF. There's no way any professional would do it.

Of course, you have no citation regarding the "numerous professionals" who would violate their code of ethics and hospital protocols to do this.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #93
110. yeah and Terri's court appointed guardian said Michael was insistent on
her getting better care...insistent to the point of being a pain in the ass.


enjoy your stay.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #59
76. New pathways do not equate to new brain cells ...
Her entire cerebral cortex is non-functional. That is she has no functioning "little grey cells" to begin new pathways. We lose 4000 brain cells each day in normal life and they do NOT regenerate.

What happens to stroke patients is not regeneration but alternate use of other parts of the cerebral cortex to take up the lost functioning of dead cells/brain area.

Terry has a functioning "brain stem." A brain stem performs only the necessities to keep an person alive, NO, I repeat, no cognitive functions - housekeeping only.

That little 5 month old baby that was taken off life support had a significantly greater chance of a quality life. Albeit his brain stem was not fully functional, the dendrites could have extended in other parts of the brain (only seen in youth) to allow him to breath on his own in time. ALSO, and this is big, his cerebral cortex had not disintegrated, unlike Terry, Baby Hudson had a chance for SOME cognition ergo, some decent quality of life.

*'s Texas law discriminates against the poor. Gee, 10 days to find another hospital doesn't mean squat when you have no money or other resource.

I guess only the middle class and wealthy deserve to be supported by these Pseudo Pro-Life nut cases.

May this dear woman remain off the feeding tube (extra-ordinary measure of prolonging brain-dead life) and die in peace.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #76
84. Sorry. "Baby Sun" had no chance for a decent life.
He had a form of dwarfism which caused shortened arms & legs & a malformed head. But the "bad" part was a permanently shrunken rib cage--too small to allow breathing. There was no way to repair this; most children in his condition are allowed to die at birth. He was kept sedated throughout his short life because of the pain. The "best" possible scenario for him would have been a couple of years of pain before an early death. And severe mental retardatation during that time. In his case, it was the best decision.

His mother thought that a miracle would occur since his father was the Sun--therefore the name. Her trust in the Sun also led her to avoid prenatal care. No real father ever bothered to show up.

However, there is hypocrisy in comparing how the cases have been handled. The right decision has been made for Terri Schiavo--but powerful forces oppose it.

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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #84
109. Right outcome
Wrong reason under that law - NO INSURANCE, NO MONEY
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #84
136. Originally posted by Bridget Burke
The "best" possible scenario for him would have been a couple of years of pain before an early death.
A scenario that WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE if his mom had had the money--THAT'S the point.

Baby Sun was legally entitled to his "couple of years in pain"--even if the state of Texas ended up footing the bill. There are people living in bubbles, connected to machines, with spikes in their heads, and with severe mental retardation. A decent life? No. But a life.

:headbang:
rocknation
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #84
143. You don't have to say you're sorry when you are IN ERROR ...
Yes his chances were "very slim" of regaining some cognition. However, because his higher brain centers had NOT degraded to "swiss cheese" he would have had a SIGNIFICANTLY increased chance than that poor woman that the Republicans refuse to let die in peace, Terri Schiavo. And yes, albeit rare, improvement has occurred with Baby Hudson's condition. I pray for Terry's Soul but I shed my tears for Baby Hudson who MIGHT have had a chance if those greedy Republicans were not so damn heartless in Texas.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #76
133. DING DING DING! ElectroPrincess, you're our grand prize winner!
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 10:56 AM by rocknation
That little 5-month old baby that was taken off life support had a significantly greater chance of a quality life...his cerebral cortex had not disintegrated, unlike Terry, Baby Hudson had a chance for SOME cognition, ergo, some decent quality of life...10 days to find another hospital doesn't mean squat when you have no money or other resource.
From what I understand, Baby Sun was neither brain-dead nor persisently vegetative. He was disconnected because was a financial burden on Bush's rich hospital-owning friends!

:headbang:
rocknation
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #133
144. Oh you are so very kind ... and IMO = Correct! (blush & skipping away)
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #59
137. You are right
In some instances tissue does regenerate.
Brain tissue does not however.
And liquid only regenerates liquid--not tissue.
What you are speaking of in strokes and other brain injuries is the fact that when you have nerves and pathways and tissue where the nerves will attempt to create other pathways to attain previous function. It's kind of like a mouse in a maze.
Sometimes it can takes months or even years for the nerves to get around certain obstructions, and that is why there are sometimes "miraculous" recoveries because sometimes the new pathways become successful paths.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #137
145. However, the research supports that extensions of dendrites ...
that is, some form of brain regeneration is not what we would envision ... not actually growing new tissue, but the existing cells extending out (growing longer) to connect with other structures to regain functioning.

THIS IS IMPORTANT: To the best of my knowledge (review of the research), the above "miraculous" type recoveries have only been documented and confirmed with BABIES and YOUNG children. Why? Because only infants and very young children have what's considered "plasticity of brain cell function." Again they do NOT grow new brain cells but the existing structures branch out. Yes, it is *beautiful* but requires YOUTH.

Those adult folks who experience strokes recover in another manner entirely. OTHER (not the original structures) brain structures "acquire" the ability (unknown but transform electro-chemically) to take on the function of the "dead area" from stroke.

Again, Terry's cerebral cortex is degraded and she has been extensively examined by neurologists.

IMHO it would take a PURE "higher being" intervention to transform dead cerebral cortex into healthy functioning tissue. Translation - It ain't gonna happen.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #145
148. Nice research
I was trying to keep it simple but thanks for the great explanation.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #148
149. Thanks, made it "too simple" to fully please academia but
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 12:43 PM by ElectroPrincess
Oh well ... nobody's perfect. I was never too proud to ask a professor who seemingly got carried away with terminology to, "please explain that again in PLAIN English?" ;)
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #53
60. Dammit Jim....I'm a doctor, not a linguist.
I know that after this week I'm passing on the Zuchinni this Easter.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #53
66. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #66
79. Yes whitney, it was heartless when they took Baby Hudson off the
respirator without his Mother's consent. It's called saving the State of Texas "a buck."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #79
86. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #53
130. You're right, Baconfoot
Describing Terri's brain as "soggy" is an understandment. It's pure liquid.

:headbang:
rocknation
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ze_dscherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
64. Steve Bell's comment on *'s intervention
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. The Chimp as Christ--- Precious. LOL
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #64
82. George W. Bush is NOT Pro-Life!
http://www.patridiots.com/001544.html

snip

If you are poor and going to die anyway, Bush doesn't care about you.

But if you have parents who are willing to pay even though they have no legal standing, we'll pass a law just for you.

That's not pro-life. That's politics.

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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
65. US Court Rejects Appeal Over Woman's Feeding Tube - Reuters
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
83. Teri's Law?
What do you think? Bush will not only use this to promote his activist judges thinking, but call for a FEDERAL law to promote his "Culture of Life" to make his Fundie base happy. Something to the effect of, say, absent a Living Will we must err on the side of LIFE and keep ALL artificial life support. I think he will try to do this. This case is the perfect setup for it. Of course, this would certainly break down spousal rights to make medical decisions, but these holier than thou's seem more upset with the lying, cheating husband, that I think they will do it. It sends two messages there - LIFE and "SACRED vows of marriage".

Comments?
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
98. Link to complete opinion of 11th Circuit
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #98
102. Randall Terry is now working on Florida Senators--to convince them

to create another bill to put the tube back in.




http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/23/schiavo/index.html

Appeals panel won't order Schiavo fed
Parents had sought to restore feeding tube after lower court setback

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 Posted: 4:47 AM EST (0947 GMT)

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN)

...Reached in Tallahassee, Florida, Randall Terry -- an anti-abortion activist and spokesman for the Schindlers -- said the parents were "devastated" by the appeals panel's ruling.

"We're simply hoping the Tallahassee legislature will intervene to save Terri's life," he said. "At this point, it appears that all roads to saving Terri goes through Tallahassee."

Terry said he's in Tallahassee trying to convince state senators to vote for a bill that would reinsert Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.

"We've only got maybe two senators to convert, so I'm hoping the Tallahassee government gets its act together."........
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. Schiavo should get her out of Florida now
If they are going to pull a fast one at the end of the litigation he can take her to another, more friendly jurisdiction.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #102
104. I think people like Randell set up false hopes for the partents/family
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shay_shay Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #102
105. This might be a stupid question...
So pardon my ignorance. But didn't the Florida legislature try to do this already and it was declared unconstitutional? So seriously, can they really do anything else? Besides, with all of the polls showing the most people disagree with Congressional intervention, would a state congressman really want to risk re-election?
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durablend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #105
111. Because they don't care what the sheeple think
It's all about THEM now (congress and *)...American sheeple be damned.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #105
134. The people's position on issues doesn't sway elections anymore
People favor services over tax cuts, preserving SocSec, cuts in defense spending and massive investment in alternate energies and education by large margins.

If the pol convinces the people that she/he is more convicted to that wrong position than the opponent is to a position the people favor, they win.
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justsomegirl Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
127. Who can truly "save" Terri?
I see her mother on the television, asking people to "save her daughter". It surely seems as though the only "person" who can truly "save" her daughter at this time is the God they claim to have so much faith in - by taking her out of this shell that is no longer functional.

I'm waiting for (Good) Friday, when I expect someone to say that they heard Terri exclaim: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
140. Supreme Court
I just heard on CNN that the Schindler's have petitioned the Supreme Court.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #140
146. CNN just reported asking for re-hearing from 11th Circuit
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
147. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
152. locking
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