NYT: Schiavo Case Highlights Catholic-Evangelical Alliance

Schiavo Case Highlights Catholic-Evangelical Alliance
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: March 24, 2005


The powerful outcry over Terri Schiavo, the brain-damaged Florida woman whose case has provoked a national debate over whether she should live or die, is a testament to the growing alliance of conservative Roman Catholics and evangelicals who have found common cause in the "culture of life" agenda articulated by Pope John Paul II.

In their fight to keep their daughter alive, Ms. Schiavo's parents, who are Catholics, have been backed by an ad hoc coalition of Catholic and evangelical lobbyists, street organizers and legal advisers like the Rev. Frank Pavone, the Catholic priest who runs a group called Priests for Life and evangelical Protestants like Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, and the Rev. Pat Mahoney of the National Clergy Council.

The struggle is only the latest indication of a strengthening religious alliance between denominations that were once bitterly divided. Evangelical leaders say they frequently lean on Catholic intellectuals like Robert George at Princeton University and the Rev. Richard John Neuhaus, editor of the journal First Things, to help them frame political issues theologically....

***

The Catholics and evangelicals first joined forces in the anti-abortion movement. And their alliance has now extended to include promoting sexual abstinence education and opposing stem-cell research and euthanasia. It is an array of issues they link under the rubric of "respect for the sanctity of life," whether that life is an "unborn baby" or an unresponsive patient lying in a hospice bed....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/24/national/24relig.html

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The Catholic Church is right on this one. I am a Catholic myself, and am opposed to abortion, the death penalty (a recent development), and the murder of Terri Shiavo.

Politics make strange bedfellows.

Not all members of the Catholic Church feel the same: There's a very interesting interview at Salon.com from a Priest who also has a PhD in Law - He's a professor of Bioethics at Boston College, Rev. John Paris. I think he's more qualified than most of the people chiming in, given his background.

"This has nothing to do with the sanctity of life"
The Rev. John Paris, professor of bioethics, says Terri Schiavo has the moral and legal right to die, and only the Christian right is keeping her alive.

his head might explode. Who to believe? What Would Jeb Do?

Hey! Have a little respect for us Liberal Catholics who do our best to live our faith as we believe Jesus would want us to behave.

For example, Check out a couple of Father John Dear's Sermons? If you would kindly take a moment to do the above, you will also quickly discover that those of us Left Wing Catholics are very different from what's touted as "The Leadership" of the Catholic Church.

http://www.johndear.org/sermons.html#homilies


Please do not make glaring generalizations about the faith I love (Catholicism): If anything, please remember the good works for social justice by the Franciscans and The Jesuits? :-)

On edit: I don't believe removing the feeding tube from Terri Schiavo should be considered "killing." Why? Because the Nuns who care for terminally ill patients consider feeding tubes extra-ordinary measures for extending life. Terri's cerebral cortex is DEAD (a mixture of soup and swiss cheese organic material). Therefore, I believe that the wishes of the guardian are both legally and morally sound. I have no conflicts as a practicing Catholic for having her feeding tube removed. It is IMHO an Extra-Ordinary measure.

Terri's cerebral cortex is DEAD (a mixture of soup and swiss cheese organic material).

I am not saying you are wrong about the position of the Church. I am just wondering why you wouldn't present facts rather than fiction. Isn't fiction from the right bad enough?

has LIQUEFIED and the rest is breaking down to the form and substance whose appearance is NOT unlike swiss cheese.

If you have difficulty and/or are disconcerted envisioning my graphic descriptions, then for that I'm genuinely sorry. I don't shy away from stark descriptions to drive home a valid point.

However, that is an accurate visual from respected scientific tests. What part of *her EEG is FLAT* can you disagree with? ... as the forgoing is the clinical definition of BRAIN DEAD.

Terri Schiavo is brain dead everywhere save for the "housekeeping" area of the brain stem (no cognitive functions). The tissue that once composed her cerebral cortex is degrading. Baby Hudson may have only lived for a year or two, but he had a significantly higher chance of experiencing some significant "cognitive experiences" than Terri.

Thank you for posting this! As a fellow Catholic who loves her faith but hates the politics it becomes embedded with, I really appreciate your comments. It’s nice to know some Catholics use reason rather than nodding their heads to whatever is said by others…

the Catholics lose their tax exemptions after all the African American churches who have allowed our guys (Kerry, Clinton, etc.) to give a campaign speech during their Sunday services lose theirs? You don't want to fight this battle...

whackjob priests is right.

They are (at least offically) opposed to capital punishment.

You will also see Catholics involved in helping the poor in tangible ways that you won't see many evangelicals (who believe in salvation by faith alone)

on hardball, last year. He was highly enlightened and presented a very clear picture of the Catholic opposition to the death penalty. And, since those who are of any religious suasion are humans, first, the notion of lockstep opinions was not borne out.
It is tempting to tar the evangelicals with the unfeeling brush associated with the wingnut extreme. My own experience has it that they are pretty active, generally, but their altruism comes with strings and a kind of "you owe it to me to do this" attitude.

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But they will use each other in the meantime.

careful ... come The Rapture ---> All bets are off. Like, Game Over, Man! :crazy:

I sent a copy of a newspaper article here in N. Ga to a cousin in Pa, who is a reborn Christian minister.

Here's the article.

(copy)
CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- A church has withdrawn its support for a food pantry serving the needy because the pantry works with Roman Catholics.

Central Church of God explained its decision in a letter March 1 from minister of evangelism Shannon Burton to Loaves & Fishes in Charlotte.

"As a Christian church, we feel it is our responsibility to follow closely the (principles) and commands of Scripture," the letter said.

"To do this best, we feel we should abstain from any ministry that partners with or promotes Catholicism, or for that matter, any other denomination promoting a works-based salvation."

Loaves & Fishes isn't the only ministry with which the large church has cut ties, and Catholics have not been the only reason they've given.

The Rev. Tony Marciano, executive director of Charlotte Rescue Mission, said Burton told him the church could no longer support the agency after it allowed three Muslim students from UNC Charlotte to help serve a meal.

Doug Hartjes, director of development for Crisis Assistance Ministry in Charlotte, said Central Church of God told them it will not provide financial support this year. Crisis Assistance provides emergency financial aid and other help to people.

Hartjes said 200 congregations representing Christian, Jewish and other faiths donate money and volunteer time, as do people with no religious affiliation.

The church also ended funding for Love Inc., which provides services for the poor, elderly and disabled in Mecklenburg County.

Anna Burton, a spokesperson for Central Church of God and the minister's wife, said church leaders decline comment, letting the letter speak for itself. She said there was no animosity toward any of the organizations.

The Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte released a statement Friday, saying, "This apparent attempt to divide the faith community is most unfortunate."

With some 6,000 members, Central Church of God is known for its huge crowds and electrifying sermons by the Rev. Loran Livingston.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, tell me again about the joint venture between Catholics and Evangelicals.

disagree with Washington's intervention.

Evangelicals and Catholics really don't like each other on a pretty fundamental level. The Catholic Church was long ago dubbed Satan's Whore by the fundies - many fundies don't even consider Catholics "Christian."

As dumb as that sounds.

Likewise, Catholics are generally aware of this and don't look favorably on evangelicals and fundies who have no spiritual training whatsoever and run around quoting old Jewish laws. The lack of any control on what is an acceptable belief is a major sticking point for Catholics as regards the fundies. See Shi'a and Sunni Islam - Catholics are much more like the Shi'a while fundies are like the Sunni. You can push an extreme loony belief in evangelical Christianity without any difficulty.

And fundies are literally excommunicated - that is to say they cannot receive Communion in a Catholic church any more than a Muslim could. I'm using this in the sense that they can't get Communion - not that there is a specific decree of excommunication. Anglicans, in contrast, can get Communion, as can several other non-evangelical Christian denominations.

But evangelicals are most certainly *not* Catholic allies.

at least some of the relatively mainstream ones such as Charles Colson. They've been forming alliances on social issues with Catholics for some time. But they collect plenty of static from fundamentalists such as David Hunt, whose creepy anti-Catholic book A Woman Rides the Beast is easy to find in evangelical bookstores.

My late grandfather, a very devout Catholic, told me that salvation is only available in the Catholic Church. But he also told me that only God knows who the members of the Church really are. I've had equally devout Baptists who admit to believing that their traditional formula for salvation (belief in Christ) may be more of a sufficient condition for salvation than a necessary condition. Sensitive, intelligent people have trouble accepting rigid fundamentalist formulas for salvation when they realize how few people on this unfortunate planet meet the criteria. I certainly can't believe in a God who is prepared to consign the large majority of the world's population to the hot place.

coming up? and, whatever other battles it can influence ...

stoking emotions

with the media, as seen here, again, aiding and abetting the right-wing agenda .......


"The powerful outcry"
"a testament to the growing alliance"

(exploitation of the Schiavo Case by the right-wing/Republicans)

Neither respects the other as part of The Body of Christ. It amazes me in both groups the extent to which they are willing to say anything, no matter how wild or venomous to get on TV, or add to the fray.

It's time for this country to wake up, or be content to have decisions made by rule of a mob of idiots and dupes.
morcatknits

.

Politicians, Roman Catholics, together with protestant Evangelicals planning anti-gay votes ???


2004 Massachusetts Constitutional Convention members and lobbyists confer inside the Massachusetts Statehouse . . . from L to R, MA Representative Travis (co-sponsor of anti-gay bill/amendment); MA Representative Carrono; Daniel Avila, lobbyist for the Massachusetts Catholic Conference (anti-gay lobby); and Ron Crews, lobbyist, former Georgia State Representative, Evangelical preacher, and CEO of anti-gay group

who don't think the govt should get involved.

Sad to see the Times hype this minority as being such a godzilla -just they way the did after the election.

"Hyping a minority into a Godzilla" was used to cover election theft. Period.

A church has withdrawn its support for a food pantry serving the needy because the pantry works with Roman Catholics. Central Church of God explained its decision in a letter March 1 from minister of evangelism Shannon Burton to Loaves & Fishes in Charlotte.

"As a Christian church, we feel it is our responsibility to follow closely the (principles) and commands of Scripture," the letter said. "To do this best, we feel we should abstain from any ministry that partners with or promotes Catholicism, or for that matter, any other denomination promoting a works-based salvation."

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=114336

And Catholic Bishops recently announced a campaign against the Death Penalty--which is against Church doctrine. Conflict with some Evangelicals--who favor the penalty--was anticipated.

Some Bishops & priests have emphasized a few bits of Church doctrine while forgetting opposition to the Death Penalty, opposition to Aggressive War & working for Social Justice. Their "allies" would reject the whole package. And the Dominionist/Christian Reconstructionist movement is rooted in an extremely anti-Catholic strain of Protestantism.

they consider the Pope the antichrist. Catholics are considered a pagan heathen bunch, which tickles me to no end to tell my mother, a staunch Catholic, how much the religious right hates her.
Let them fight amongst themselves. Ill just watch the circus.

Saying in response to my mother asking if she was Catholic: "No, I'm Christian"

My mother has never liked the woman since then (they didn't help their case any by telling their kids that they shouldn't go into my parents' yard because my parents "worship statues" -- there's a St. Francis in the garden).

Thank God, for they Northeast, where fundies are (relatively) few & far between - mostly Catholics, Jews & Main Line Protestents.

...alliance at best. The sort of people who are really hot for this "alliance" aren't the sort who can bridge the cultural and theological differences.

The Christian Coalition tried it a few years back, but it fell apart -- sometimes on such petty things as the Catholics having a beer with their lunch, while tea-totalling evangelicals went into full "holier-than-thou" mode.

Sure, when they have a similar goal they'll use each other, but when you hear someone talking about an "alliance" between conservative Catholics and Conservative Fundagelicals, you're hearing someone tryng to make something true by repeating it enough times.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3328116&mesg_id=3328116


Church cuts ties to food pantry because of Catholics


!!


http://www.heraldsun.com/state/6-588371.html

Church cuts ties to food pantry because of Catholics


Mar 19, 2005 : 8:38 am ET

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- A church has withdrawn its support for a food pantry serving the needy because the pantry works with Roman Catholics.

Central Church of God explained its decision in a letter March 1 from minister of evangelism Shannon Burton to Loaves & Fishes in Charlotte.

"As a Christian church, we feel it is our responsibility to follow closely the (principles) and commands of Scripture," the letter said.

"To do this best, we feel we should abstain from any ministry that partners with or promotes Catholicism, or for that matter, any other denomination promoting a works-based salvation."

Loaves & Fishes isn't the only ministry with which the large church has cut ties, and Catholics have not been the only reason they've given.

MORE

Uh-huh. Right.

I saw that Santorum, of all people, appears to get it: that rah-rah death penalty is incompatible with the nebulous "culture of life". Maybe it's possible after all!