For Recruiters, a Hard Toll From a Hard Sell -NYT

The Army's recruiters are being challenged with one of the hardest selling jobs the military has asked of them in the nation's history, and many say the demands are taking a toll.

A recruiter in New York said pressure from the Army to meet his recruiting goals during a time of war has given him stomach problems and searing back pain. Suffering from bouts of depression, he said he has considered suicide.

Another, in Texas, said he had volunteered many times to go to Iraq rather than face ridicule, rejection and the Army's wrath.
...
"There were a couple of recruiters that felt they were having nervous breakdowns, literally," said Maj. Stephen Nagler, a chaplain who retired in March after serving at Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn, where the New York City recruiting battalion is based.

Some two dozen recruiters nationwide were interviewed about their experiences over four months. Ten spoke with The New York Times even after an Army official sent an e-mail message advising all recruiters not to speak to a reporter, who was named. Most asked to remain anonymous to avoid being disciplined.

http://nytimes.com/2005/03/27/nyregion/27recruit.html?hp&ex=1111899600&en=6a48988b1357eb7b&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Surely all those parents would LOVE to support their fuhrer's plans....

SEE? Bush was right. No draft! It will be the "national service initiative" :grr:

snip>
While some in Congress have raised the specter of a draft, the Bush administration has rejected that idea, saying higher skilled soldiers are needed in a high-tech age, and are best found through recruitment.

But several senior officers interviewed, including Col. Greg Parlier, retired, who until 2002 headed the research and strategy arm of the Army Recruiting Command, said the pressure on recruiters shows the policy should be re-examined, and initiatives like national service should be considered.

would be protesting in the streets if Congress tries to reinstate the draft via some kind of "national service initiative."

Fucking hypocrites.

Now think of Kurt Russell in the movie 'Used Cars'. Russell and his buddies used all kinds of tricks to get people onto the car lot. They used a $5-dollar bill and a fishing line, bubble gum stuck under the bumper, they manually turned back the odometer, and so on.

THAT's what the recruiters are like now. Used car salesmen. Don't trust em!

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Isn't' that just a politically correct way of saying DRAFT?

Like any label, it can mean almost whatever the speaker intends. The devil is in the details.

Look at this one...

snip>
But Sergeant Hayes said he started rethinking his assignment as the war went on. Mothers required months, not weeks, of persuasion. And the stories he heard from some of his recruits who had deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan made him reluctant to pursue prospects by emphasizing the Army's benefits. When his cousin - whom he had recruited - came home from Iraq with psychological trauma, he filed for conscientious objector status in June, as a strategy to obtain a new assignment.

The application was rejected in November. Now, instead of serving 20 years in the Army, he intends to leave in December, when his recruiting tour is done. "There's a deep human connection when you try to persuade someone to do something you've done," he said. "So when it turns into something else - maybe even the opposite - it's difficult."
....................

Some of those command e-mails sound like a script from an old movie, and the players weren't wearing US uniforms.

If they can't make a Marine out of you they kill you.

http://braxtonian.com/extra/JasonsTharpsLetters_SundayGazetteMail.html

...take their own life based on your dislike of a job they're under orders to do. If you're posting your comments out of ignorance, maybe the following information will help you understand the military recruiter's position a bit better.

These guys don't volunteer to be recruiters... they're chosen by the Army to fill that position. Every recruiter has a quota that they're under a great deal of pressure, even during peacetime, to meet or exceed. I would guess that their quotas have been increased to keep up with their normal quota and to replace those that have been killed or wounded in Afghanistan and Iraq.

It's obvious to me that having to recruit under the current conditions is causing some of these guys some major personal problems. Keep in mind that the people interviewed for the article are just the soldiers willing to go public with their situation...there are undoubtedly a lot more recruiters who are not willing to talk about their experiences. If discovered to be talking to the press, they can face severe penalties from their military organizations.

Now, do I agree with the two wars being fought in the Middle East? Heck, no. But would I suggest that someone kill themselves because they happen to be in the service at this particular time in US history? Most definitely not.

This story is a big deal. It's all falling apart.

snip>
But many recruiters said the Army continues to minimize how difficult it has become to find qualified volunteers during a war and in a growing economy.

Yeah....nice spin...the economy is so busting with fabulous jobs that nobody wants to go to Iraq, yeah, that's it.

...and quit. Enticing Americans into involvement in an illegal war is wrong, any way you spin it. I have zero sympathy-- ZERO-- for recruiters who are stressed out because their lies and enticements aren't working at 100 percent efficiency.

That's pretty dispicable.

I know the recruiting game, I lost a number of them to emotional problems, medical problems brought on by extreme stress, and one who avoided suicide only because his wife came home early and found him babbling in the shower with a gun in his mouth. This was a top-notch guy, who was an acknowledged leader in his regular area of responsibility, who had NEVER FAILED in a 14 year career...and who was watching his entire life go down the drain because he was assigned an IMPOSSIBLE task and chastised for failing to make goal. I spent most of my time "in the middle" between the senior leaders and the poor bastards out there trolling. It is a gut-wrenching, soul imploding job, where you have to hold on hard and tight to your integrity, because the temptation to toss it aside is in your face every damn minute of every damn day.

I never knew a recruiter who came from the regular ranks (as opposed to those who are on the professional recruiter track) who wanted to be there in that shitty, non-vol job. They fucking HATED it. Who likes aging ten years in a three year tour? You never see your family, you work every weekend, and you get your ass handed to you (with consequences to your pension) if you fail to make goal. It is an abusive, dark environment.

...in support of an illegal and immoral war, so I don't have much sympathy.

But I do have one word for any recruiter who's in this pitiable state: Quit. Your life, your self-respect, your dignity isn't worth this. And remember that whatever it's doing to you, the people around you who love are also suffering as they watch helplessly.

Just quit.

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They're ALL for the Liberation & Democratization! And then they can pass along the contact info for all the draft age kids in the country club. I really don't see why it would be so difficult to get all the young GOPers off to fight. What a puzzle.`

service, contact me. I'll forward you to the American Friends Service Committee.

http://www.afsc.org/

http://www.afsc.org/issues/program.php?id=322

I'm a Quaker, and we have a number of initiatives and programs to help conscientious objectors, including an underground railroad to Canada, with a network of safehouses up there. If you, a member of your family, or someone you know, feels that it is wrong to wage war, we'll be glad to help with avoiding military service. I was a conscientious objector to the Vietnam War.

Cheers

www.brethren.org and enter keyword Brethren Witness/Washington.

If they love him so goddamn much, let *them* go fight.

They obviously intend to start up the draft, they just need a pretext.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/nyregion/27recruit.html?ei=5094&en=6a48988b1357eb7b&hp=&ex=1111899600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print&position=

The Army's recruiters are being challenged with one of the hardest selling jobs the military has asked of them in American history, and many say the demands are taking a toll.

A recruiter in New York said pressure from the Army to meet his recruiting goals during a time of war has given him stomach problems and searing back pain. Suffering from bouts of depression, he said he has considered suicide. Another, in Texas, said he had volunteered many times to go to Iraq rather than face ridicule, rejection and the Army's wrath.

An Army chaplain said he had counseled nearly a dozen recruiters in the past 18 months to help them cope with marital troubles and job-related stress.

"There were a couple of recruiters that felt they were having nervous breakdowns, literally," said Maj. Stephen Nagler, a chaplain who retired in March after serving at Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn, where the New York City recruiting battalion is based.

<snip>

At least 37 members of the Army Recruiting Command, which oversees enlistment, have gone AWOL since October 2002, Army figures show. And, in what recruiters consider another sign of stress, the number of improprieties committed - signing up unqualified people to meet quotas or giving bonuses or other enlistment benefits to recruits not eligible for them - has increased, Army documents show.

These guys are just recruiting in the wrong place. I'm sure if they went to a Young Republican meeting on any campus they could easily fill their quota. :evilgrin:

But they vote for him anyway :shrug:

Can you cite a source for your claim that the military voted for Bush?

I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just interested.

I know a lot of military people that hate Bush.

http://starbulletin.com/2005/03/25/news/story9.html

The Army continues to have problems recruiting soldiers for the war in Iraq.

Army recruiters were only able to sign 126 soldiers between Oct. 1 and March 15 -- 50 percent below its goal of 253 for the current fiscal year.

Army recruiters reported that their recruitment effort for the Army Reserve is down by 43 percent for the same time period. Army recruiters missed their goal of 151 new soldiers and were only able to bring in 65.

The Hawaii Army National Guard, which has a brigade combat team with 2,200 soldiers from Hawaii in Iraq, also is having recruiting problems.

Army Secretary Francis Harvey said this week his service would not meet its recruiting goals for this month and next. Those forecasts follow the official release of statistics for February, when the active-duty Army was 27 percent below its recruiting goal of 7,050.

Oh, I forgot for a moment. Freepers just talk out of their asses. They'd never sign up for war, they just "talk" like big strong men and women. They never walk the walk.

Come on freepers prove me wrong and sign up to fight for your Fuhrer.

...same exact story as the little red hen.

Time for real Democrats to stand up and be counted. Get lists of neighbours who voted Rethuglican and send them with their children's names to your local US forces recruitment agency. The "Rest of the World" could quite happily accept Rethuglican's children going and dieing in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere in the future! What really hurts us is when we have to kill real Democrats children. That is not fair! Democrats killing Democrats. Bring on the Rethuglican's kids, thats who we really want to kill!!

I have seen these recruiters in and out of that building on a daily basis for a couple of weeks now. I want to be "supportive" of our troops, but it is very hard for me not to sneer at them every time I see them. They are up to no good, I can see it with my own eyes! I don't know whether they are asking for more access to the schools or whether they are looking through records of our children. I'm not privy to that information. Either way, I have been very uncomfortable watching them come in and out of that building for the last couple weeks. I have seen a Marine, two Army guys, a Navy guy, and an Air Force guy!

The draft is approaching. I feel it in my bones. I have NEVER seen so much activity like this. I have a high schooler who claims they are permanently stationed at a specific corner in her school. She says NO kids are signing up, but MANY are being bribed to the table by freebies! I hope all of you parents have been talking to your kids about how good these guys are at what they do!

and the place was always 'crawling' with recruiters.

I complained, but it did no good.

they are stepping up the rhetoric. Have you seen the DU thread about The Young Marines? Believe it or not there is now an elementary level of ROTC-like recruitment going on. They play military games. My son claims they run obstacle courses like the "real Marines." They wear ACTUAL fatigues to school once a week. My son wanted me to let him join up. I was, needless to say, NOT wiling to sign him up! We had a very long talk about "the age of consent" and WHY 10 year olds can't make an educated decision about military issues. I have no idea what level of commitment these kids have because my son only knows one kid involved and I do not allow him to play with him outside school. His family is a little messed up IMO!

My son thought the uniforms were "cool!" I'm sure many of those involved think the same way. What 10 year old boy doesn't like fatigues?

fight for Bush, Country and Freedom. NOT! Fucking cowards!

A recruiter in New York said pressure from the Army to meet his recruiting goals during a time of war has given him stomach problems and searing back pain. Suffering from bouts of depression, he said he has considered suicide.

Grim times indeed when you can't round up canon fodder for imperial adventures without suffering stomach and back pain!

Do these "sleazy" pyschop's recruiters think that Public schools are where the great American support for "Total War" on the "Rest of the World" is to be found? I don't think so! These recruiter's need to be sent to every "Private" college and university in America. That's where you'll likely find "Your true believer's"! They'll be "signing up" in droves! No more "Nervous Breakdowns" or "bad feelings" in the stomach. The recruiter's will be in "Heaven"!!! Kill a "Raghead" must "echo" around American campuses!
Time for US university student's to stand up for their country!!!! and Defend Freedom and Democracy! in the name of all Anglo-Saxons.

are through the late spring and into the summer months after high school graduation. Nov through Feb/Mar tends to be the slowest.

The army is projecting that it won't make quota for the next two months, which is dipping into late spring. Recruiting officers are probably holding their collective breaths in hopes of making the grade by Aug/Sept. If they don't make quota after summer, what other options are available?

Parent's approval is required from 17, which is the earliest you can join, to 18 when you legally become an adult.

March 26, 2005, 10:29PM

Iraq conflict takes its toll on recruiters' health, careers
By DAMIEN CAVE
New York Times

NEW YORK - Some Army recruiters charged with recruiting an all-volunteer force during an extended period of conflict say the demands are taking a toll.

A recruiter in New York said pressure from the Army to meet his recruiting goals during a time of war has given him stomach problems and searing back pain. Suffering from bouts of depression, he said he had considered suicide.

Another, in Texas, said he had volunteered many times to go to Iraq rather than face ridicule, rejection and the Army's wrath.

"The recruiter is stuck in the situation where you're not going to make mission, it just won't happen," the New York recruiter said. "And you're getting chewed out every day for it. It's horrible."
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/3104043
(Free registration is required)

I honestly feel sorry for the guys, but at the same time they chose this line of work and now they are living with the consequences. By the time Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz get done with our military it will be well and truly broken, to the detriment of all of us.

I'm afraid that if I were one of the parents being directly contacted by a military recruiter about a high school aged son -- I would not even try to hold myself back.

Hekate

www.militaryfreezone.org

to see what you can do on the local level to stop or counter military recruitment from the high schools.

In Oz, in Great Britain, in Canada and even in New Zealand military recruitment tactics that i have read about in America just don't happen. They would cause riots in the street. If soldiers turned up to any school in an effort to recruit children, the government would be "slaughtered" in the next election. The most military recruiters can get away with in OZ is TV ads and newspaper ads telling us all how fantastic a life in the military is. We accept that like any other ad. Unsolicited phone calls, which are the norm here in OZ, is accepted as ok as long as it is not from a defence force employee. Turning up to schools or anything that active 17 and 18 year old male and female children participate in, in an effort to recruit them for the armed forces would cause a "huge" stink here in OZ. Its not Australian!! In OZ, you join through the TV or newspaper ads, or if you are "Drafted". Although the Draft for Iraq will not be met by the same sort of "American love" as Vietnam was. There will be massive resistance in OZ. The government that trys to bring it in will be "hammered" at the next election. We have fair elections every 3 years!!!

and that will fix that problem.

Cheap slave labor and "fodder units" for war, as Poppy likes to refer to them...

I sure as hell don't feel bad that they can't meet their quotas!

they should all be lining up in numbers so large that they get turned away.