Six Killed in Plane Crash in Central Pa. (Dems)

AP 2 hours, 53 minutes ago

BELLEFONTE, Pa. - A small plane carrying two families to a college lacrosse game crashed Saturday, killing all six people aboard, authorities said. The two families from Rhode Island had been on vacation in Florida and were going to Penn State University to watch pilot Jeffrey Jacober's son play in a lacrosse game, according to a family friend.
...
Officials believe icing may have contributed to the crash, Boyde said. The FAA (news - web sites) and the National Transportation Safety Board (news - web sites) planned to investigate.
...
The dead were identified as Jacober, 51, of Providence, R.I.; his wife Karen, 49; their son Eric, 15; Gregg Weingeroff, 49; his wife Dawn; and their 10-year-old son Leland, said Carl Freedman, a family friend and attorney for both men.
...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=533&e=5&u=/ap/20050327/ap_on_re_us/plane_crash

I looked up the campaign donations for the men. Most people who can afford to fly in planes like this are not Democrats but these people were. Weingeroff was one of the top political donors in R.I. and I suppose he was planning on donating to Kennedy to help him unseat Lincoln Chafee, but he won't be doing that now. Coincidentally, the story about that race was one of Yahoo's top stories today.

I feel for their friends and family.

and determine circumstances of flight--several recently seem to have occurred on take off or landing and "ice" is the problem. At some point, if there are enough, we could see if there's some kind of unusual pattern.

I didn't understand it today when I heard about it, it's not really that cold, but of course if you add in the wind chill maybe?

...at cruising altitude.

Away here -- and it is very wet out, but i thought kinda warm.

sad

etc.
How many up and coming repugs have met this same demise in this fashion?

n/t

And the first thing you do is google the political contributions of the victims? Call me old-fashioned, maybe, but that's ghoulish.

However, I would like to keep those reasons personal.

Whatever, man. Still weird.

:tinfoilhat:

First of all, if you look in the archives you will see that I used to live in Rhode Island; and also I worked at a jewelry company at one point while I lived there. That was one reason I Googled around--I wanted to see if I knew any of the people but I couldn't remember the name of the jewelry company. Then the article about Chafee vs. Kennedy was on my mind because I had just looked at it a few hours ago. Also, I am very familiar with R.I. politics and if you look in the archives you will see that I have talked about how corrupt politics are there. Like--seriously, seriously corrupt and R.I. is a very small state.

Anyway, as I said I have two reasons I am not going to talk about also.

I interpreted it as :tinfoilhat: immediately from that... Who CARES who these people donated to? They weren't politicians. Absolutely odd to point out their possible party affiliation. Not everything is political... yet.

You must not be paying attention. In this day and age,EVERYTHING is political....even dying.

is rarely political (though if you include those we've killed in war... then, yeah... a lot of death is political, but not all death is).

Or the congress on a whim decides you have to stay alive for their political clout.

In the current political climate, it's good to be aware.

If a member of my family had been killed in the crash i would want people to be asking questions. Maybe nothing to it, but still...

If you're defensive enough to deny the volume of convenient exits of Democrats from this planet, then you live in your own world of denial.

Just don't condemn others for searching out facts and their interest in obtaining the truth.

Nobody here said its intentional, atleast yet.

You are the one jumping on anyone who is just getting the facts.

Owned by a powerful Democrat. I think you guys should get on it. You know, just start collecting facts. I saw a black sedan speeding away! Might have been Rove behind the wheel but I can't be sure.

Thank you in advance for your valuable work.

that was genuinely funny!

If it is ghoulish, it is because we live in ghoulish times.

Thugs, I tell ya.

I'm beginning to believe the murder rate about is a hefty percentage done by the fucking power spawns of evil that hide it well enough.

but the stuff about Hunter Thompson was beyond even me--did anything come of that?

I can't see that he'd blow out one of the few working brains in his country... his own.

Because he killed himself. Anyone who's followed his career, his medical problems, and his ideas on suffering would immediately understand why he did what he did. Perhaps it's not germaine to this thread to point out that he WAS NOT well-known, and was not a force for anything having to do with politics any more, at least outside of the minds of those for whom Nixon is still the issue.

I loved the man and respected his work, but jesus, come off this gibberish. The good doctor would probably shoot himself again if he'd known what nonsense his suicide caused.

aren't folks out there who would assinate their countrymen if they could do it with a low chance of being caught and if it brought them political and/or economic power.

There is some nasty stuff going on in this country and alot of Dems, particularly ones who fall for weak DLC rhetoric, appear to be oblivious to them and this makes them vulnerable. Folks need to be made aware so that they can better protect themselves.

but I have often thought that small planes like this must have an appalling safety record given the number of times they seem to crash!

However our fears are not evidence, we need some facts.

For example data on the number of plane crashes in a given period and an analysis of the people killed in those crashes. If it does seem that there is an anomalous amount of dems of other group involved, then we need to make a lot of noise about it and get it investigated further.

What a strange criticism to level...

and see how many hits come up.

These planes crash all the time. They carry students, oil men, investors, Dems and Republicans and the non-political.

-----------------

Just a sample:

http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=3073383&nav=EQlpXSBd

http://www.realestategates.com/News/19102004/small-plane87234.html

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/10993991.htm

http://www.indystar.com/articles/9/232362-3099-009.html

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-03/27/content_2748171.htm

http://www.koin.com/news.asp?RECORD_KEY%5Bnews%5D=ID&ID%5Bnews%5D=1833

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Small-plane-crash-in-Italy-kills-twos/2005/03/19/1111086043730.html?oneclick=true

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20050326&hn=17859

http://1010wins.com/topstories/local_story_058170143.html

Tin foil hats often seem to be worn by people with interesting hypotheses!

B has a theory that is of interest, that is not to say that it is correct. We cannot know until we have more facts. B says she? has two reasons for her viewpoint and they may or may not be valid.

Just googling plane crashes is unlikely to pull up the relevant info on party affiliation.

Perhaps an easier route would be to look at how many registered dems have died in a given period of time, and how many of those died in questionable circumstances.

I'm not in the US and have no idea how many registered dems there are in the world, or how many are like to expire in a given year (of natural causes).

You might narrow the field further by defining a sub-group of influential dems if there are too many to look up.

I picked up a conversation to this effect between the NTSB and FAA through my fillings.

And my stupid therapist wants me to stop breaking the pills in half.

> I looked up the campaign donations for the men.

Good for you.

> Most people who can afford to fly in planes like this are not
> Democrats but these people were.

Factual evidence to back up this statement, eh?

> Weingeroff was one of the top political donors in R.I.

And...?

> I suppose he was planning on donating to Kennedy to help him
> unseat Lincoln Chafee, but he won't be doing that now.

Oh, what fun! That's $2000 down for Kennedy. Only about 20,000 people left to kill in small plane crashes.

> Coincidentally, the story about that race was one of Yahoo's top
> stories today.

Yes. Coincidentally.

To handle icing conditions.

It is the pilot's responsibility to not fly the aircraft into those conditions if the plane cannot handle them.

mhr- do weather conditions often deteriorate unexpectedly in your experience, or are forecasting methods good enough to preclude this?

Six hours or less.

The NWS is good at predicting when icing may be a problem.

However, occasionally they do get it wrong. When that happens, if the pilot has no experience in icing, the trouble begins. It could be as simple as not flying faster during the approach. As ice build up on the wings the stall speed goes up dramatically. Hence the plane must be flown faster to preclude a stall. This is a potential problem during an instrument approach because the plane is being flown slower on purpose - to set the aircraft up for a landing.

To underscore the seriousness of even a little ice, a pilot cannot take off if there is visible FROST on the wings!

Saw the wrecked tail picture with the N number last night and looked it up; N770G was a Pilatus PC-12. This is a very capable--and expensive-- aircraft. An example:

http://www.globalair.com/classifieds/details~/MessageID=25371&class=Type&item=Single+Engine+Turbine

The World's Safest General Aviation Aircraft: The Pilatus PC-12 by Vaughn Olson*
Reprinted with permission from Western Aircraft

The purpose of this article is to offer some of the reasons why the Pilatus PC-12 is probably the safest aircraft of its class in the world.

In the past sixteen years in the United States and Canada there have been over 230 fatalities in twin engine aircraft due to a loss of power on one engine. This averages 14.6 fatalities per year in twins.

The PC-12 is a state-of-the-art single engine turboprop aircraft. Since the first date of manufacture, all single engine turboprop aircraft combined have compiled over 6,000,000 (six million) flight hours with no (that's zero) fatalities due to engine failure.
...
http://www.aero-excel.com/safety.htm

Is the next likely culprit.

One can be a rated pilot for instrument conditions but that does not mean that one is proficient.

For example, I fly my instrument simulator two to three times per week just to keep my skills up in preparation for flying real instruments.

The question is how much instrument time did he have and when was his last check ride. Unlike automobiles, pilots must perform proficiency checks with a flight instructor to demonstrate competency.

--They heard the airplane "sputter". Turbines don't usually do that; compressor stalls sound more like sharp pops or booms.

--They saw it "nose into the ground". Possibly a stall, caused by
-ice?
-power loss?
-pilot disorientation?
-all of the above?

--There was no post crash fire. This plane broke up pretty good. The tail with the N number was the biggest piece I saw in the photo. No fire would indicate a good possibility of no fuel left in the tanks. It wouldn't be the first time.

The sky was overcast (no ceiling specified), 32 degrees, 10 miles visibility, light easterly winds. No big deal for this aircraft, in normal operation.

The NTSB will release a preliminary guess within a few days, weeks or less. The formal report will be out next year. Sad.

It has been known to happen.

In Rivera v. Rhode Island (CA1), a 15-year old - Jennifer Rivera - witnessed a gangland murder. She was too afraid to testify, though, because everyone knew that if crossing this gang meant the death penalty. But the police promised that they would protect her. But for those promises, little Jennifer would have clammed up.

Sadly, the police broke their promises. Jennifer did not have any protection, and she was murdered.

http://federalism.typepad.com/crime_federalism/2005/03/irivera_v_rhode.html


I saw a lot of coincidences when I lived in Rhode Island. I know what it's like to live in a place controlled by a CRIME FAMILY. I have a perfect right to note COINCIDENCES.

I hope the people of Rhode Island will not allow the name of Jennifer Rivera to disappear into history.

Damn you lizard people!!!

Here is an interesting web site. It is a web site listing where dead politicians are buried and has some interesting sections, including death by car crash and by plane.


http://politicalgraveyard.com/index.html

http://politicalgraveyard.com/death/aircraft.html
and
http://politicalgraveyard.com/death/in-cars.html

They have a caveat at the start of each list saying "Very incomplete list!" but nonetheless, since 2000, they have noted just one death by car crash and 7 in plane crashes, Grover C. Robinson (Democrat ?), Thomas Allgood, Sr. (Democrat?), Charles B. Yeates (Democrat), Melvin Eugene Carnahan (Democrat), Jasper Baxter (Democrat), Paul David Wellstone (Democrat), and Mary McEvoy (Democrat).

They do not list any deaths after Mary McEvoy's, but this list seems to be heavily biased in favour of the dems.

I was quite surprised to see the news of this horrible crash on DU, but flat-out shocked to see it being spun as even remotely related to politics. I was the drummer in a band called Slim Pickins, and Mike Jacober, the deceased pilot's and family's surviving son, was our front man. I am not BSing you whatsoever.

I know Mike Jacober to be an exceptionally talented singer, guitarist, and lacrosse mid-fielder, as well as a damn good person. I met his father, younger brother, and mother at one of Mike's home games, and they were the sweetest people. That such an unmitigated tragedy would happen to such a wonderful family, and a great friend, truly breaks my heart. Yes, I am a liberal like many of you, but for heaven's sake keep politics and half-baked conspiracy theories out of this terrible loss.

Your energy is better spent on legitimate questions and pursuits.

Hi DC

I'm very sorry to hear that you were connected to the victims of this crash and hope you are not upset by our discussion- it is certainly not my (our) intention to offend anyone.

However if someone has the misfortune to die in an accident like this, there is always a discussion of the events and an attempt to come to some sort of understanding of what has occurred.

I think such discussion is a healthy part of a free society and if it results in any facts being thrown up along the way, then all the better.

For example, this discussion may well have resulted in some one with specialist knowledge spotting a mechanical problem with a particular type of plane, or shortcomings in the weather forecasting etc

HP

for the repugs, I wouldn't put anything past them...even murder. x(

We are not fresh out of ligitimate conspiracys!!! But if you insist... My dad, Phil Cessna, told me on his deathbed that they made two types of 150s... one for the general public and one just for known liberals. They used old soup cans and such to build the liberal planes so they would crash a lot. Weird but true... remember, this was a deathbed confession so it's true! Have fun!!!

used ... :tinfoilhat:

The local news interviewed someone at the airport. The man had personal knowledge that the last 3 planes that arrived before the crash were complaining about the ice on the wings. The man also mentioned that ice could of formed in the fuel lines.

Is there any kind of alert system for icing? Is icing included in weather reports for landing?

When I first heard about this crash I was worried it was someone important to the Dem Party ...like a politician. A big donor would also be very important...weird, creepy weird...