Abortion-rights battle shaping up (in CA)

Most of the attention has been drawn to the heat of a possible special election fight between Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and organized labor this year, but another highly charged measure might be first to qualify for the ballot.

A constitutional amendment requiring abortion providers to notify the parent or guardian of unemancipated minors 48 hours before performing an abortion is well on its way to qualifying, supporters say.

"We are pretty confident we will qualify, and most people seem to think this is a pretty good idea," said Albin Rhomberg, a retired physicist from Sacramento who is a spokesman for the group collecting signatures for the initiative.

"Even Hillary Clinton, on the anniversary of Roe v. Wade, said she supported the idea of parental notification."
....
"It endangers young women's lives. Period," said Katherine Spiller, executive director of the Feminist Foundation. "There are young women who will be afraid to tell their parents they are sexually active. They'll go into a clinic and when they find out their parents have to be notified, they'll get up and walk out.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/12631701p-13485572c.html

It may qualify, but it won't pass.

Did Hillary really say that? I know her words on the subject have been twisted. I hope that's the case here.

because it's before the date when the new state law requiring paper trails goes into effect.

Arnold is trying to install a Republican Secretary of State (after ousting Kevin Shelley, a Democrat). Also Repug Registrars of Voters are trying to ram through other changes to allow decertified machines back into the November election that $chwarzenegger wants to hold.

This is very disturbing all around.

It will definitely pass, and it should. I have never talked to any parent, even a liberal, who thinks any teen should have a SURGERY without parental consent.

M

You see, I have a stepdaughter who is experiencing the joy and wonder of puberty as we speak. Now if she were to find herself knocked up in a few years her Dad and I would take her down to the clinic ourselves and sign any paperwork required. The problem is that she lives not with us, but her mother, an anti-choice fundie nutburger. There's no way that woman would sign consent.

Instead, my stepdaughter would face pregnancy and birth, a prospect riskier than a surgical abotion with the best of care. Teenage mothers do not get the best of care. Then, assuming she and the hypothetical baby were okay, the same morons who don't think she's responsible enough to direct her own health care would expect her to finish her education while suppourting her hypothetical infant.

All in all, I'd rather she direct her own care.

get that?

instead of aborting a 4 or 5 week old fetus, you end up aborting a 4 or 5 month old fetus...where the hell is the mercy in that?

Are we ever going to be done fighting this battle? People who have good family lives cannot imagine what those who do not are going through. This is a particularly insidious argument because it sounds reasonable to good hearted people, but they are not the ones protected by the current law.

I think we should start surgically attaching it to the whole sordid Terry Schiavo business of government meddling and intrusion into people's personal lives and decisions. And why the hell not? The bad guys certainly will be trying to, trying to bend the issue into something that suits their agenda (be watching: the "Activist Judges" crap).

But the issue turns OUR way, NOT THEIRS. You can see from the polls. Run the numbers. The numbers tell it. Americans DO NOT LIKE intrusive government. Americans DO NOT LIKE BUTT-IN-SKIS. They're fighting over a woman's body in Florida. They're fighting for young women's bodies here in CA. And that's not anywhere near the end of it. They certainly wouldn't hesitate to try to manipulate all this. Why shouldn't we? Especially when public opinion is HUGELY on our side. Again - LOOK. AT. THE. POLLS. Everyone's trying to spin them into something they're not, but they still are there, glaring you in the face. Americans DO NOT LIKE INTRUSIVE GOVERNMENT. And we need to frame this, and almost every other issue, as such. These fanatics are the ones who really and truly "hate us for our freedoms." And we should turn that one straight back into a big, fat, smack in the face against them. ("No. YOU'RE the ones who hate us for our freedoms!" YOU'RE the ones advocating violence and kidnapping and hostage-taking and intimidation. It's 'RIGHT WING' WACKOS who are killing and threatening the judges at the moment! YOU are the terrorist threat to America's safety and security. YOU are a bigger threat than Osama EVER WAS!")

Then, we win.

Repeat, repeat, repeat.

POISON THE WELL.

It's not government interfering, this is about parental rights. Why should a child be permitted to have surgery without mom and/or dad knowing? If a 16 year old wants her wisdom teeth pulled the parents must consent, because she receives anasthesia, etc...If she gets her tonsills pulled, parental consent is required. But you want them to have surgery to remove a fetus without parental knowledge? Why? So they don't have to fear the consequences of their parents knowing they are sexually active? I agree with you guys on most issues, but this is one where we disagree. It IS a parents business if a child is sexually active, because parents are responsible for them.
Besides, if the child getting the abortion should die (rare), abortion providers can be sued by the parents. An incident such as that would end up mandating a consent law.

M

And it echoes my own feelings as the mother of a teenage girl. Granted, I THINK (well, I HOPE) I have a good, open, trusting, candid relationship with my daughter. I think/hope she feels comfortable enough coming to me to talk about anything and everything. But you never know. Shame is a HUGE thing. Denial is another HUGE thing. And thinking they can handle stuff and sneaking around and manipulating circumstances and other such prerogatives is a HUGE thing with this group. At her age, I've noticed the tendency is to shut the door and carry on a whole life behind closed doors with her friends on her phone line and her text-messaging and school-related instant-messaging chat room. One of her friends, whom I know because the other girl graduated with my daughter from the same Catholic elementary school is in a mixed-race relationship. Her mom is UBER-strict and narrow-minded and backwards-leaning. The girl's boyfriend is a big secret from her family, although it's whispered about all over their school. Yes, my daughter told me.

During their fifth grade "birds-and-the-bees" class, this mom actually shut down discussion in the middle of the animated instructional video we were watching because it had mentioned masturbation "we don't discuss such things! We're Catholic!" I knew then and there this woman's daughter was liable to get knocked up in the back seat of some boy's car. This girl has NO relationship with her mother in which she could EVER confide sensitive stuff of any sort, no less an accidental pregnancy. And the mother would NOT understand. EVER. She's one of "those." A hopeless fundie. Just too far gone. And there are mothers like her all over everywhere.

You're going to promote a freeze-out if this happens. My daughter, hopefully, feels like she could bring stuff like this to me, but the other girl? NEVER!!! All this will do will be to encourage young girls to sneak around even more, because if they get pregnant and want to get an abortion, they'll find a way. And they'll do it whether or not their parents know or approve. This is just more government meddling! Dressed a little differently here, but the same thing nonetheless.

why should a minor be able to have sex or drink without mom and dad knowing?

I'm not in favor of ANY kind of law that can allow someone else to prevent you from having--or NOT having--an abortion. Not even your own parents.

:headbang:
rocknation

involved "will just walk out" will immediately head to a back-alley abortionist actually putting her life in danger.

have the baby in some motel or Prom night restroom, and dump in a dumpster or, if NOT in complete and total denial, abandon it completely somewhere. (A few states have "no fault" abandonment laws -- that's not the term for them, I don't think, but they allow a new mother to give a baby up to a hospital with no penalty, no questions asked, etc.)

And I would be against parental notification. She is a good student, nice kid and she is not sexually active (I do know this). But just from the way she worries about getting in trouble for minor things (and we do not punish her excessively), I know that she would likely be terrified to tell us if she was pregnant. This is the case despite repeatedly telling her that she can tell us anything and that we would ALWAYS be there to help her and support her. So I can't imagine that a kid who has neglectful, abusive uneducated or poor parents would feel confident that they could tell their parents without genuine fear. And that's not to mention the poor children of religious zealots.

I also think little could be more intimidating to a scared teenager than to have to go to a judge. So even though I hope my daughter ( and any girlfriend my son will eventually have) would not find themselves in such a situation, or that if they did, they would feel comfortable coming to me, I would not want to impose that requirement on them. Just my opinion.

....fortunately planned parenthood got to help write the law and made sure that there was ample room for exceptions - especially in case that the child claims it was a parent that caused it and of course consideration that some children do not have both parents available

on choice. The theory has always been instead of overturning R-vs-W that they would restrict it to death. Less bad publicity.

A better idea would be to require all girls that get abortions be informed about birth control methods.

thought how wonderful and politically savvy it was to reach out to the pro lifers that statement was .Gag. I am sure terrified young girls will thank her. NOT.

freakin' CLUE. I've never much cared for her, but she is rapidly becoming one of my most despised so-called Dems.

to be behind all right wing propositions in California. They
should stay in Utah where god wants them to be.

with their perfect parents all would be, well, perfect.

The world I live in isn't perfect.


There is no one size fits all for every situation.

The girl should decide whether her parents should be part of the decision.

When I was a teenager, my mother didn't want to know, and I would have ended up taking care of her, instead of the other way around, if you know what I mean.

These people try to pretend that all parents are great and all parent-child relationships are ideal.

Hey people. That's a fantasy.

b_b

If a 14 year old can't have oral surgery, or any minor surgey without parental consent, why should she be permitted to have an abortion without parental consent?

The conservatives are right on this one.

M

Daddy is fooling around with his daughter. The daughter becomes pregnant and wants an abortion but is too scared to go to her parents, when it's clear her father has been molesting her. She can't go to the doctor about the abortion, so she has no choice but to notify daddy. Daddy, in fear that she's going to tell the doctor that HE is the father of the baby, kills her and dumps her body off in some rural location.

Sounds extreme? Well so did back alley abortions back when abortions were outlawed. You run the risk of jeopardizing the life of the minor. But that's ok, huh?

Let's say the parents find out that she's pregnant and decide to throw her out of the house. Now you've got a pregnant minor living on the streets. She can't have that abortion, because she needs parental notification, so she's going to have this child. In 9 months, after having the baby in some alley, she dumps it off in the dumpster knowing she can't support it. OR she decides to keep it, but does a horrible job at raising the child because she is homeless, without money and any source of income. But that's cool, right?

The girl tells her parents that she's pregnant and the parents decide to beat the shit out of her. Can't happen? It does, every day in this country.

Even better.

Little girl knows how abusive the parents are, decides to keep the pregnancy a secret, gives birth to the child in the bathroom and throws the baby away.

Sometimes the child is found, we realistically don't know how many times it's not.

Fortunately, my state didn't require parental consent at the time, but this 16 year old girl's parents kicked her out on the street because they found out she was going to have an abortion.

One of our HS teachers (female) let her to move in.

Parental notification is just such a stupid, stupid idea. Every one of your scenarios will happen.

One more: young women who are more afraid of telling their parents than of dying are capable of going to extremes. There are all kinds of toxic chemicals that are rumored to cause miscarriage, along with alcohol poisoning and any number of illicit drugs (not to mention the shady online pharmacies that offer "abortion pills"). You're going to end up in a situation where girls are poisoning themselves in an effort to terminate their unwanted pregnancies without having to tell their parents.

You know the one where all parents are compassionate and understanding when it comes to teenage sexuality! Especially today, in our free-love society.

The world is black and white. Parents are always good and abortion is just like having your tonsils pulled. No extenuating circumstances.

I could agree with the law if it contained a mechanism for dealing with parents wanting one thing and the daughter the other (and what if one parent wants one thing and the OTHER parent the other?).

Is single parenthood a proper "punishment" for a sexually active minor? Is it okay if the parents lock the daughter in her room until her third trimester? Should ANYBODY be able to say, "YOU can't have an abortion because I don't believe in it?"

:headbang:
rocknation

That's ridiculous! Parents, rights are circumvented in ANY instance that their decision puts their child in danger. Look at all the Christian Scientists whose kids are given life saving surgery or treatments, along with other things like vaccinations, mandated by law without parental consent. This is done because the rights of children supercede those of parents responsibility to them, its that simple. Parents don't OWN their kids, they take care of them as best they can, and if they fail, then they are revoked of that responsibility and someone else takes over.

you're old enough to choose abortion without Mom and Dad's permission.

...than of notifying their parents.



What does that tell you?
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/010705/loc_20050107012.shtml

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No. Not Karl Marx - but Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Zeppo, and Gummo.

And in keeping with the true California Marxist tradition of Groucho (Say da Magic Word - Win a Hunnert Bucks) - I am supporting a Petition to ban pig meat in California (Santa Clara County has a majority of citizens whose various and sundry faiths - frequently battling each other - prohibit Pig Meat). Maybe this is a campaign that could bring these warring communities together.

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