Conflicting reports on condition of Pope - CNN

Just reported

Edit -CNN backtracking... CNN cannot confirm italian media reports. If it turns to be a hoax this will be the gaffe of the century.

Second edit - CNN retracting the news of Pope's death. Conflicting reports from the italian media... WTF?

Third edit - AP reports the Vatican denies that Pope John Paul II has died.

EDITED BY ADMIN: Changed title of thread: Conflicting reports on condition of Pope

n/t

Nothing on Reuters about him dying.

That alone may have helped stem the tide of Facism just enough to help us all down the road... even though the impact would be so very subtle.

in an increasingly complex and evil world. RIP.

www.cafepress.com/showtheworld

However, I'll acknowledge he did a couple of good things (oppose Iraq War, for one).

But his life has left millions worse off (opposition to birth control/condoms, spread of HIV, overpopulation and its horrible effects in developing countries, anti-gay opporession, and on and on.)

Perhaps the next Pope will be more progressive...but I seriously doubt it. The institution has a strong conservative streak that will continue to be hurtful in terms of HIV, condom use, and anti-gay oppression.

It was a shame. He has a towering legacy to leave, and this leaves a large blot on it for many, many Catholics and non-Catholics around the world.

I, too, hope the next pope will be just even a teensy bit more progressive on the issues of birth control, population control, the crisis of molestor-priests, the treatment of gays, and the fact that to a large extent, women remain second-class citizens in the Catholic Church. They throw us a bone here and there and think they've solved everything, but they haven't.

His loss is a huge one, any way you cut it. I think he tried to be a good servant. May he find peace when he finally makes the jump.

and I blame the church itself more than the man for those bad policies you mention.


www.cafepress.com/showtheworld

...for a nation-state/religion with no economic interests. It's been hard for me to take his "pro-life" stances seriously. When church officials are openly bad-mouthing Kerry, and helping to reelect the warmonger, they are missing a huge point.

I kept my mouth shut because I'm very anti-catholic (anti-religion, to tell you the truth) and I usually try to contain my most mordant remarks. They aren't very well accepted in this forums and tend to be deleted.

But I have to ask you: Could you please provide us with a detailed assessment of WHY you think so highly of a pope that, for the most part, put more weight on maintaining the status quo in the church than addressing social issues, which in this day and age are the most important things that a supposedly charitable church should focus on?

they cite italian media

...to no avail yet.

He's the only Pope I've ever known, this is quite a shock to me.

No link yet - breaking on CNN

But CNN says these are usually reliable sources.

... CNN saying report of death was premature...

no link yet.

...@ 1:33 pm et.

1:37pm est

:(

and may I see you there.

she thinks the Pope is God, so I better call her.
RIP John Paul, you at least told Bush he was WRONG to attack Iraq.

But I am in tears. God rest his soul.

you did all you could in this life. :hug:

He was definately against the war and you have to give him credit for that!

A gentle giant, if you will. I haven't always agreed with him either, but he was one of the most prominent voices against the war, and even the fundies and republi-CONS couldn't get back at him for that. They didn't dare. They couldn't touch him. One man who put bush in his place. There certainly haven't been many of those. For that, alone, I'd vote for canonization. But then again, I'd expect they'll get the ball rolling on that fairly shortly after he finally does pass.

only pope i've ever known as well. while his passing is a sad event, it will be interesting to see how they choose a successor and who it is.

I think we might've jumped the gun...

Reminds one of the Schiavo thread yesterday, an hour before she died...

lost consciousness:eyes:

:cry: :cry: :cry:

Rest in peace Pope John Paul II. RIP.

:kick:

:cry:

He's the only I ever saw in person. I'll never forget that.

I'm trying not to lose it here at work.

I'm not even Catholic.

He will be rid of a pain-wracked and increasingly nonresponsive shell, and perhaps, a lot of sychophants and manipulators who may have surrounded him and influenced him in some way. He'll be able to fly. He will probably spend the next eons meeting and greeting and celebrating with the millions of souls who went before him, whom he knew or touched in some way. He'll be a busy guy up there. Now he can get back to work - just on a different level.

:loveya:

When the news showed video two nights ago of the pontiff struggling in clear frustration to not only speak, but to breathe, it broke my heart. No matter how much I disagree with the church's policies, I wouldn't wish that kind of agony on anyone. I'm relieved he's at peace now.

I went to near by church at lunch and prayed and lite candles for the Pope, my brother and our solders.

It was about 20+ years ago. He stopped at my church and paid a visit. It was a very fine day. :cry: :cry: :cry:

:kick:

I saw him in the Pope mobile in SF.

I'll ever forget it. I was a little dissapointed they were going so fast. But he did look at us and waved. It was so touching.

He was a good man.

Are you crying for the Sudanese?
Are you crying for the tsunami victims?
Are you crying for the Afghanis and Iraqis?

Because there's a whole lot more people to get worked up for than a doddering old man in a tipped-over mitre.

Some positions he took, I didn't agree with, but overall he seemed like a peace-loving man who wanted us all to get along for the benefit of mankind. At least that's what I got out of his book.

R.I.P.

NYT, BBC, etc have no change in headlines. Yahoo says that there is no confirmation yet.

in the arms of your Lord.

I disagreed with you vehemently on many issues, but I always had alot of admiration and respect for you as well.:cry:

Condolences to all those who regarded him as their spiritual leader. I can't know what this truly means to you, but I wish you comfort in your grief.

Reading these testimonials is enough to choke me up a little.

Rest in peace

May we join you in Heaven when our time comes.

And a few other times when he took on the power, but on a lot of matters he seemed regressive. Nonetheless, one hopes he is at peace however it works.

Maybe he and Terri S. are having a little chat about the relative merits of feeding tubes and throat tubes and the experience of having one fifteen years vs fifteen days. Just in case any of that really matters to them anymore.

vatican unconfirmed.

He was a strong proponent of the environment. Do you know in his younger days he used to ski? As a Catholic, I mourn the loss of the leader of the church here on Earth. As a leftist, I shudder on who will replace him.

he was very inspirational.

I must have been around 7 or 8, well before the assassination attempt. He was going to the very large Polish cemetery in Bologna. I also remember him skiing with joy, in a way few popes had ever done before, and a smile.

I disagree vehemently with some of his pronouncements on women, reproductive rights and homosexuality, although I must confess that it is hard to determine what input he actually had on these encyclicals.

I believe he was much mor responsible for the 'fall' of Communism than Reagan ever dreamed of being. He stood up against the war in Iraq and the death penalty; he stood for the eradication of poverty around the world; he tried to come to terms with all other faiths, including Islam. He even forgave the man who tried to kill him.

I'm an agnostic, but I respect this man and I hope his suffering is now over. I'm thinking about heading to St. Patrick's Cathedral to show my condolences.

"I believe he was much mor responsible for the 'fall' of Communism than Reagan ever dreamed of being."

You couldn't be MORE correct. Choosing a Polish pope when they did, the Church hierarchy sent a big "up yours" to the then-Soviet Union and especially to the forces in Poland who were then trying to snuff out Lech Walesa and the Solidarity movement.

You just couldn't be MORE correct. What JP2 did to strike against Communism dwarfs ANYTHING Reagan did. Reagan just swam along in the same current the Pope was creating. JP2 was driving. Reagan thumbed a ride with him and Walesa and others who were on the front lines.

You could NOT be MORE correct. I hope that comes out in the obits. The Pope speaks with a roar with a lot of believers in other parts of the world - louder than any of their civilian leaders and certainly louder than anybody from our country. When he was chosen in the midst of all the turmoil in Eastern Europe (Gorbachev had a HUGE role in this, too, and must NOT be left out when the credits and kudos are passed around) it sent a collosal signal all over the world. Just the mere fact that he was Polish and not yet another in a continuing series of Italians spoke loudly, all by itself. It was HUGE. Just HUGE.

on edit for really bad spelling!

:eyes:

trying to get their story straight.

first, he's dead as announced on FOX, then he's not. Weird stuff.

Waiting for Vatican confirmation.

about 13 years ago and the Pope gave mass unannounced to everyone, as his procession went bye he looked right at me an blessed me. I can still remember it well, also took a pic at the same time....mama don't take my kodachrome away..

I forgot to add rest in peace

Rest in peace in with your GOD

http://news.lycos.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=1012762

Friday, April 01, 2005 1:49 p.m. ET

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Italian media gave contradictory reports about Pope John Paul's vital signs on Friday, first saying his heart and brain activity had stopped and then reporting this was not true.

Pope John Paul II as your time on this earth comes to and end.

...as per CNN.

Even though the Pope might be physically dead, he is not officially dead until the head of the Sacred College of Cardinals, or Camerlengo, verifies the death. Standing over the deceased, he calls the pontiff by his baptismal name three times. No response = pontiff has passed. Then the seal and ring must be broken. Then the announcement can be made.

Until these things happen, there can be no announcement, ergo, he cannot eb dead.

the actual rituals involved here.

. . . Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead

Vatican denies reports that the Pope is dead. wtf!?

on edit: I hope it's not an April fool's hoax....

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050401/ts_nm/pope_monitoring_dc


"VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Italian media gave contradictory reports about Pope John Paul's vital signs on Friday, first saying his heart and brain activity had stopped and then reporting this was not true. "

in Vatican City! :-)

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I only hope that if this indeed is his time that he go in peace. Unfortunately, the poor man's passing has become a media circus.

There were many things I disagreed with the Pope on but there were many things I agreed with him on.

I always believed that he was sincere in his beliefs which these days is saying alot.

"Holy See Press Office Director Joaquin Navarro-Valls released the
following statement to journalists:

The general conditions and cardio-respiratory conditions of the Holy Father have further
worsened.
A gradual worsening of arterial hypotension has been noted, and breathing has become
shallow.
The clinical picture indicates cardio-circulatory and renal insufficiency. The biological
parameters are notably compromised.
The Holy Father - with visible participation - is joining in the continual prayers of those
assisting him."

let us not forget that despite his progressiveness he was still a very conservative leader and caused harm as well as good. For example his stance on AIDS and the use, or nonuse, of condoms.

Besides, what do doctors and scientists know about Life and Death?
<Okay, I've got my sarcastic point off for the day>

:shrug:

until it was obvious he was there

in approximately 3 hours. On April 2, Rome time.

I don't want to believe that. :(

?

The Evening Courier says the pope is dead.

http://www.corriere.it/

We often forget that once he was a vital young priest:



<edited>

..per MSNBC

"You just get him down to Florida, miracles happen down there believe me. "
GWB