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Alaska's Studied Wolf Pack Threatened (Wash. Post)

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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 10:42 PM
Original message
Alaska's Studied Wolf Pack Threatened (Wash. Post)
State Officials Resist Calls to Expand Protected Territory

DENALI NATIONAL PARK, Alaska -- Lying alone and listless on a snow-covered ridge, the large male wolf appeared injured, probably from a trap. Blood stained the snow near his front paws.

Circling above in a single-engine airplane, wildlife biologist Gordon Haber found it difficult to maintain his composure. For nearly 40 years, he has been observing a family of wolves, whose current leader was the lethargic alpha male down below him in the snow.

That family, which lives in Denali National Park and is often described as the longest-studied, most-photographed group of wolves in the world, is now at risk. In the past two months, trappers operating just outside the park's northeastern border have picked off two senior females in the 11-member group. For weeks, the alpha male and his new mate have been separated from each other and from six younger members of the pack.

"It's so senseless," Haber shouted over the aircraft noise. "I'm not sure what is worse: the animals being killed or all the so-called experts allowing it to happen."

more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23709-2005Apr3.html
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yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. how sad
and how sad that one of the people i know who passionately defends wolves was idiotic enough to vote for * and later regret it.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. This makes me so sad. I saw those wolves this summer, when
we visited Denali. It was such a thrill to see these beautiful wild creatures, even from a distance.

I oppose torture, but might make an exception if we could put those trappers into one of their own traps and let them experience what they are putting these animals through.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Way towards the end of the article
One of these wolf trappers says he and his family have been threatened via phone with that very thing.
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. It makes me almost as angry...
Edited on Sun Apr-03-05 11:05 PM by InvisibleTouch
...when you have researchers who are there on the scene, but won't step in to help the animal, for fear of introducing uncontrolled factors into their "studies." I have nothing but contempt for the mindset that feels it's okay to let an animal die, or even kill it (stick it in a jar of preservative) for the sake of "research." I ran into that attitude for years in the zoology departments of universities I attended, and it's one of the big reasons why I eventually left in disgust. PhD be damned.


On edit: Not accusing this particular researcher of being that way, just saying in general. Because I didn't see anything about landing and trying to actually rescue the wounded alpha male. I can only hope they did.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Good point
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I understand
the carnage inflicted on wildlife by the required field collection in the herpetology course which I took in the 70's was one of the reasons that I said fuckit. Better part of 1,000 specimens collected and "sacrificed" at the altar of science education. Most of it terribly redundant, the permanent collection did not need more American Toads or Northern Watersnakes. Worse, many of the students were taking the course to fulfill requirements and had no real interest in or empathy for the animals they were working with. I saw mindless cruelty inflicted in a sick juvenile fashion.

Look, you've opened an old wound;>)

Fortunately I don't believe that herp is taught like that anymore.

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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Ex herp student here too...
Probably no great surprise. The freakish thing is, all of the people in our lab were entirely decent sorts, not at all cruel or indifferent, who passionately cared about the state of the natural world. They even kept pets of their own. But some mental disconnect made it not bother them to stick healthy animals in jars of formalin. I was the odd one out. I finally decided I'd rather live in my own little world with my (very much alive) animals.
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DenaliDemocrat Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. Ummm
we have over 10,000 wolves up here. In some places, like the Yukon Charely Preserve ,the wolves have literally eaten themselves out of "house and home". We trap and hunt some wolves to keep them from and their prey from "boom and bust" cycles typically seen in predator/prey scenarios. If we do not kill some, they will decimate their food source and starve to death. If we do kill some, some will die an umpleasant death. It's the tradeoff for human interference.
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PaulaFarrell Donating Member (840 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Wonder how they managed before man was around to save them from themselves
It's pretty true that wolf populations are limited by availability of food, but not that they need to be culled to avoid eating the supply right out. They prey primarily on old or very young animals, as adult healthy prey can generally escape. If you don't agree, you should check out Isle Royale where wolves have been for the sixty or so years without killing off all the moose. It's also true that old/injured wolves will probably die a lingering death, maybe even of starvation, but that's just nature and it's how the species keeps its fitness. When you trap animals, you're not picking off the old and injured. Imay be wrong, but it sounds like you're more interested in the welfare of the prey than of the wolves.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. There are more than enough moose in Alaska to feed plenty of wolves.
While staying on the Kenai peninsula at the southern end of the state, I noticed those road signs that said "Give Moose a Brake: 350 moose killed so far this season." (or words to that effect).

Thinking this seemed like a high number, I asked our innkeeper how many moose there are in the vicinity. "67,000," he replied without batting an eye.

"Alaska has 67,000 moose?" I asked, surprised.

"Nope," he said. "I don't know how many there are in the whole state. But there are 67,000 just in the Kenai Peninsula."

Bullwinkle is thriving in the land of the midnight sun, apparently.
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DenaliDemocrat Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Actually
the moose population up here is about 200,000. OF course, we ARE the size of TEXAS plus Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, and Nevada.

For a comparison, Colorado has over 350,000 elk.


Nice of you as a tourists to tell me (a biologist who lives and works in Alaska) how the cow ate the cabbage though.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Lucky you--sounds like a dream job.
We were fortunate to see 17 or 18 of those 200,000 moose during our two-week trip, along with 13 bears and more than 20 eagles.

No sign of moose eating cabbage, though we did see a few wandering into flower gardens and vegetable patches!

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DenaliDemocrat Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Not luck at all
I worked my ass off in college, ran through the ringer in graduate school, took professors' crap for years on end, did research and publsihed journals and had clowns who never did a lick of work stick their name in fromt of mine, finally... did an intership with the Corps of Engineers. I busted my ass to get where I am. Luck had nothing to do with it.
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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Sorry to hear your cow ate your cabbage
We have plenty of cabbage down here, can we ship you some? :D
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cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. we have more than enough cabbage up here
really....
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DenaliDemocrat Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. That's not true at all
I suggest you read up a little bit more on the arctic wolf. They are not like the Mexican Gray Wolf or the Red Wolf, these are pure eating machines. They run in packs upto fifteen and I have seen wolves over ten feet long from tip to tail. They will eat anything and everything they can catch. Sure, they will get the old and sick first, but they will readily catch and kill anything they can.

I don't need to check out Isle Royale, I have moose in my back yard. In my front yard too. Moose eat my fuschia, my pansies, they love my mountain ash tree.

I am intersted in keeping a balance of predator and prey. I could not imagine Alaska without grizzly bears or moose, but I cannot imagine it without moose or caribou either. The predator situation up here has gotten a little out of hand.
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PaulaFarrell Donating Member (840 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. then can you explain how they managed to survive till now?
Edited on Tue Apr-05-05 07:36 AM by PaulaFarrell
I really don't buy the 'we must control then for their own good' theory except in cases where the top-level predator has been eliminated. I can understand culling deer when there are no wolves, or even culling wolves to allow the prey population to regenerate, but not in this case.

anyway, i did a bit of reading up. The Arctic wolf is a sub-species of gray wolf inhabiting the Arctic circle and not really even close to Alaska. So I guess you are just talking about gray wolves which live in Alaska. ANyway, everything I have read says the population of wolves has fluctuated according to food supply, and this has been especially true in Denali, where there is protection for both species.

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. nonsense
Edited on Mon Apr-04-05 07:02 AM by blindpig
the problem is too many humans, particularly non-native. If your contention is true then either their range is being restricted or their prey is lacking. Probably a human problem although as I don't know enough wolf biology to rule out some sort of boom-bust cycle, which would also be natural. If you'd like to see the end result of this sort of intervention visit Jersey. Or Maryland. Or Georgia. Or California. Etc.

Enjoy your natural paradise while you can.
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DenaliDemocrat Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. No thanks
the reason I live in Alaska is because I don't want to live in a place like New Jersey. As a side note, I don't want people from New Jersey telling my state how to run it's wildlife program either.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. New Jersey once had wolves.
Keep it up and you'll be there anyway.

Nobody knows what they got until it's gone.

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DenaliDemocrat Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-05 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Really
Please don't preach to me. I pay thousands of dollar for hunting licenses, air taxi's, donations to Ducks Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, and the newly formed Alaska Moose Federation. I volunteer to help keep track of moose movenments for road projects, and help take care of road kill moose to give to needy families How much money and time do you spend supporting wildlife?

I like wolves, but the truth is, there are too many of them in some areas of the state. I don't know any hunter who wants to see all wolves eliminated. Hell, I have had grizzly bears at 30 yards before. What a rush!!! I feel sorry for those of you who never get to experience it. If we leave the wolves to themselves, they will decimate their prey, it's what wolves do. It is also why the Yukon Charley Preserve has only 1 moose per 5 mimles and another reason why the Porcupine caribou don't cross the Sheenijik often anymore.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. so you are a wildlife biologist
why are there too many wolves? If it's not some established cycle then what is it? Is their range being circumscribed by human activity? Is their food base being depleted by other species?

If decimating their prey is what wolves do then what about those Michigan wolves?

And yes, I spend the eco-bucks. From out of state hunting license in Az(required for snake hunting) to eco-lodges and tour groups in the Southwest and half a dozen Neotropical countries I do spend. Wish I had time but running a small retail business sucks up my time like an evil sponge.

Afraid that I probably won't ever see Grizzly in the field, my primary focus is herpetofauna, not much of that in your neck of the woods. Be assured, to encounter an Eastern Diamondback is to be in the presence of Kali herself.
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cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
21. the predator control
is a well managed and thought out program. we love wolves, my wife has a wolf ruff on her kuspuk, it keeps her very warm in the winter.

we manage wolf just as our ancestors did...we kill them...and this has been going on for thousands of years...nothing new...

from the ice age to the present man has had a relationship with the wolf...and part of that relationship has always involved man killing wolf...we compete for the same prey...it's only natural...
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. why are we still allowing trapping?
That's about as inhumane as it gets.
:grr:
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