Wind, dust that MAY have led to copter crash still battering Afghanistan

bases

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=28282

A day after severe weather apparently forced a CH-47 Chinook to crash — resulting in the deadliest day for American forces in Afghanistan — wind and dust continued to batter key bases in the country.

Flags were lowered to half staff at Bagram to honor the 16 people who died Wednesday afternoon when their helicopter was forced down while it was returning to Bagram. The military issued a release Thursday stating that 13 of the victims were active-duty personnel. Three were civilian contractors working for the government. Two more active-duty soldiers had been listed on the flight manifest.

“Those two individuals are still unaccounted for,” said Navy Lt. Cindy Moore, a coalition spokeswoman in Kabul.

(cut)

The military has launched an investigation into the crash. It reported Wednesday night that it believed a severe change in weather — and not a hostile action — brought the helicopter down.

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Gen. Kamiya said the weather in Afghanistan has been poor. Then why allow the Chinook to perform this "routine" mission in bad weather? They trained in Germany. How has that "paid off?"

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=28268

It can get pretty rough, and you see similar conditions from Afghanistan through Iran, Iraq, Syria, SA and Lebanon at this time of year. You can shield the intakes somewhat, but that time of year is a maintenance nightmare even if nothing goes wrong.

The possible causes of the crash are rushed to print before we even know where the chopper orginated from (Germany). Has an investigation taken place so quickly that we can suppose the cause, especially when two people are still missing?

The General in charge of troops in Afghanistan was reported an hour ago saying that training in Germany had "paid off" in Afghanistan, yet the soldiers who lost their lives HAD trained in Germany. What gives? These Stripes articles, all written by the same reporter and dashed out in the last hour, have got to be the height of insensitivity.

Why have designated drivers if you're going to let a crew "fly in shit like that?"

We learned that back in the late 70's during the Iran hostage fiasco. Remember Desert 1?

It could be that the cause became immediately obvious after looking at the maintenance records, that's all I'm saying.

Isn't that how the SF evolved?

I think reenlistment rates in Europe are at their lowest level since Bush took office, and this crash will do nothing to enhance reenlistments, so the Pentagon/WH hopes to stem the tide of separations by putting on a happy face: they got the best training possible, but, gee, you can't account for the weather!

What a convenient cover for everything that goes wrong in this ill-conceived CEO escapade.

But when you have helos taking off from a ship in the gulf at sea level, low leveling to a desert several thousand feet above sea level, not having any screens on the intakes, radios that can't talk to each other, and a host of other shit, to include lousy coordination, too many bosses and not enough worker bees, differences in 'milspeak'...well, accident waiting to happen.

The sad thing is that there were many, many, MANY civilian assets who could have provided this kind of technical and maintenance advice as well as valid DIRECTIONS. A bunch of helo pilots and wrench benders who were Nam trained and highly experienced had left there when the Shah got the boot, who were employed by Bell and Sikorsky at sites all around the country. They weren't called in and asked for advice, and they should have been. That whole mess could have been avoided.

I can't think about that evolution without becoming ill, to be honest with you.

Your memory of it, however painful, stirred up a lot of facts I'd forgotten about. I'll have to find that book and reread before I can contribute to a conversation on it. I used to drink with helo pilots, who told me a lot.

so, ya fly in crap like that so you will know how to fly in crap like that.

From what I understand the sandstorm flying is horrid. You don't believe your instruments, they all seem to be lying, the wind buffeting is equally disorienting. A real recipe for disastor.

And, those storms can pop up really quickly - I've family there and he sends reports home pretty regularly that they were caught in "another" sand storm. When this crash originally popped up I waited most of the day to find out it was a Chinook and not a Blackhawk. If it were a Blackhawk I would be waiting on pins and needles to to find out what unit it was from, etc.

"Sarjang said the weather was cloudy with strong winds, but had no explanation for why the aircraft came down in a flat, desert area."

This was later changed to read differently and suggest that there may have been a sandstorm or mechanical problems.

Hmmm...

for all that the training in Germany is supposed to have "paid off," according to General Kamiya. What a glorified comment for a crash that is "the worst involving American forces since invading the country in late 2001."

in the Oregonian newspaper.

"According to US Dept. of Defense statistics, at least 122 soldiers had died before Wednesday's incident in and around Afghanistan since the US-led war on terrorism began after the 9/11 attacks.

"Accidents have proved almost as deadly as attacks from Taliban-led insurgents, including a string of helicopter crashes and explosions caused by mines and munitions left from the country's long wars".

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Now we have to ask ourselves: why are these helicopters crashing? Sand? They're kidding, right? Surely they must be aware that the Middle East is one big pile of sand and there are sandstorms on a regular basis. Didn't they plan for this?

Why are there so many incidents with vehicles, heli's, that end up killing so many Americans. Does the Pentagon even care?

Or is it all Crony Deals, with General Dynamics, or whoever else contracted with the Dept. of Defense and produces shoddy equipment?

But we are in Afghanistan for life, so what is the plan to remedy a sandy situation?

If it's a weather issue, why fly in it for training purposes, especially in equipment that gets so much use in an area it wasn't designed for?

We've seen a lot of crashes and deaths lately. It's great for the Bush family business, but eventually the attrition, and high gas prices since our invasions, will wear on the public's patience and cause voters to question why we are in the Middle East at all.

It seems a little to me like they are backing off, and might call it undetermined or something like that. Maybe even admit enemy fire as a possibility. Just a hunch from the tone of the excerpt.

A couple of weeks ago you couldn't get her to stop provoking countries into war. Now she's silent. Why? Waiting for her cue card from Dr. Lector Cheney as he fiddles with beakers, formulas and dials in his bat cave?

Condi's job is to prepare Americans for a generational commitment to "democratize" the Middle East. Now that "boots on the ground" have become "boots under ground," she's a boat without a paddle.

I guess I answered my own question.