Cardinal Ratzinger divides Germans

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-pope-ratzingers-roots,0,6330000.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

But opinion about him remains deeply divided in Germany, a sharp contrast to John Paul, who was revered in his native Poland. A recent poll for Der Spiegel news weekly showed Germans opposed to him becoming pope outnumbered supporters 36 percent to 29 percent. Another 17 percent didn't care. The poll of 1,000 people, taken April 5-7, gave no margin of error.

Many blame Ratzinger for decrees from Rome barring Catholic priests from counseling pregnant teens on their options and blocking German Catholics from sharing communion with their Lutheran brethren at a joint gathering in 2003.

Ratzinger has clashed with prominent theologians at home, most notably the liberal Hans Kueng, who helped him get a teaching post at the University of Tuebingen in the 1960s. The cardinal later publicly criticized Kueng, whose license to teach theology was revoked by the Vatican in 1979.

He has also sparred openly in articles with fellow German Cardinal Walter Kasper, a moderate who has urged less centralized church governance and is considered a dark horse papal candidate.

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Another reason I hope he doesn't get elected. :eyes:

If he gets elected then what are the negatives and positives?

What negatives of his will be positives?
Would his reign result in the RC becoming ineffective because of their harsh policies being ignored?

....so many great Church traditions for him to uphold.

It's virtually certain that JP2 was a moderating influence on Ratzi. All we need is a fascist in that seat. On the other hand, guess who had a strong say in the appointment of all but 3 of the electors.

ON THE 18th, THE CARDINALS CLOSE THEMSELVES OFF FROM THE MEDIA TO CHOOSE A SUCCESSOR TO JOHN PAUL II. THE RWers KNOW THIS IS CRUCIAL AND HAVE MOBILIZED. PROGRESSIVES MUST DO SO TOO, AS THE IMPACT ON GLOBAL AFFAIRS IS ENORMOUS.

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To start off, I am an agnostic of Jewish background/traditions of authentic progressive political leanings. So first off, one might wonder what standing I have to say ANYTHING. Well, in the mutuality of social existence, I might SAY something about the elections in the Ukraine, the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, the Varela project in Cuba, or Hindu nationalism in India, just as they have every reason and right to protest my government's neocolonial venture in Iraq. Of course, as in those issues, I have opinion, but my standing is different from a Ukrainian or a Cuban or a national of India.

Progressives around the world, especially but not only progressive Catholics, need to make their voices heard. For a quarter of a century, the Catholic Church has been led by its right wing, with the pope appointing many of the Cardinals who will select his successor, with a built in massive trend toward the right. Many are concerned about issues like the ordination of women or a more advanced view about homosexuality and such. My main concern is for a Church that does not build a self-perpetuating rightward trend at a time when it is, after all, the largest private civil institution in the world. The question is what forces in the Church REALISTICALLY are the most progressive that could predominate?

The squeaky wheel gets the grease and the rightwing in the US as in the Church is very good at squeaking, and SQEAKING STRATEGICALLY. Progressives tend to spin wheels on issues that seem tailored to not be effective. So the time is for progressives to insist that, given the political bent over the past quarter century, some 'balance' is needed, with a pope more along the lines of John XXIII, with a greater social conscience, a proper perspective on at least the theological and other changes that are POSSIBLE within the Church, and so forth. A pope from the third world, a good idea all other things being equal, is no step forward if they are just as conservative as John Paul II. A Vatican Clarence Thomas we don't need. But a progressive, within the bounds of the Church -- who need not promote married priesthood -- from the Third world or at least a non-Caucasian should be the general demand, with an emphasis on the politics and not on the ethnicity.

The squeaking must continue, whoever is selected, about the selection of cardinals. Progressives within the Church should continue to emphasize the issue of "balance", given a rightward trend in an institution where the world itself, including Catholics, have not be overall moving spiritually in that direction. A lengthy list of (relative) realistically possible progressives within the Church for high positions including cardinal should be constantly pursued and very vocally and publically. As the controversy brews, there will be pressure at least to balance the appointments to meet the disaffected progressives. Ordination of women and married priests, I suspect, are some ways off -- and politics has to do with what happens over the next 15 years first and the long term afterwards. The better position someone is in now, in terms of power, the better position they will be in in the longer term too. This is indeed the credo of all opportunists, but it is one reason opportunists tend to dominate the world of power.

RSVP
CLOUDY
cloudynuageux@aol.com
Feel free to forward this to interested parties or post it in interested fora or to suggest where I might do so.

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of a band of old men in red robes.

Do you imagine that "God" chose the wicked Pope Pius IX, the last in a line to confine Jews to ghettoes?

Do you imagine "God" inflicted the evil Alexander IV on the world?

Do you imagine "God" chose Stephen VII to dig up poor old Formosa's corpse and put it on trial at the Cadaver synod?

Some Popes have paid off cardinals to be elected; do you imagine "God" got a cut?

Unfortunately, in this purely political process, we can't know who will be inflicted upon the world to tell its poor to keep having children, browbeat women over their own biological rights, or heap hatred upon our gay brothers and lesbian sisters. We can hope he is less a zealot in these matters and more humane than his predecessor.

But if it's Ratzinger, God and I will throw up.

See the Godfather 3

Look at Cardinal Law, Father Geogan and Father Feeney.

his own country is divided over him - all he can do is divide. It's divided enough around me already! Ratzinger = Bush, Falwell - in the South, I'm sure they will be proud. Ack!

The Latin American, Asian, and African Catholics are much more conservative than Western Catholics. And the 3rd world is where church growth mainly is right now.

To evangelical protestant churches for a while now.

Hence the speculation that the next Pope will be a Latino.

I didn't know that. Hopefully they're not like our evangelical churches.

is a gift from god is not a rational person.

by how far society has gone; if arch-conservative Razinger is elected, the conservatives will rally 'round, but the church is doomed. This election will proclaim the real vision of the Roman church. Or lack of vision... It's almost a mirror image of the US travesty of last November.

IIRC, a group of cardinals decided he was a little too one-way-or-the-other, and poisoned him. ;)

Links?

:kick: