Helicopter downed in Iraq; video shows apparent killing of lone survivor

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Insurgents brought down a Russian-made helicopter carrying 11 civilians with missile fire north of the capital Thursday and said they captured and shot to death the lone crew member who survived. The dead from the crash included six American bodyguards for U.S. diplomats.

snip

"An Internet statement by a group identifying itself as the Islamic Army in Iraq was accompanied by a video showing the repeated shooting of a man who was found in tall grass and forced to stand up and walk. The video showed burning wreckage just before the shooting."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7572161/

another video of this crash-meaning the shooting down of the person may have come from another time and place. But they did say 'may'. I think it was Cnn (but not sure which station I was flipping a few moments ago).

tell the victim to Go, GO--then they shoot him down.
Alzahzeh is not showing any bodies (at downed helicopter-only buring rubble)-and not the actual execution of the person who was shot down.

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That's not comparable - that's WORSE !

Did you see the video of the GI gunning down a wounded Iraqi inside a building?

You must be terribly naive or just plain stupid if you believe US forces treat all wounded and prisoners humanely. It was the Bush administration that created the command climate that the Geneva Coventions were "quaint" and did not need to be followed.

Now we have no moral authority to complain when the insurgents do the same to us. Thanks to chickenhawks who never spent a day in combat.

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So its OK if a Marine MURDERS a wounded person, but an Iraqi (or perhaps other nationality) who kills a mercenary is not fine by you? The hypocrisy is so strong you could cut it with a putty knife.

Insurgents are not "cowardly terrorists" at all, those who blow up cars and kill Iraqis are. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, and I hope you are not so shallow as to not see this (although it is apparent that you are). How, exactly, is bombing houses from thousands of feet in the sky not "cowardly", and how is it not "terrorism"? How is dragging innocents out of their homes and gunning down mothers, fathers, sons and sisters NOT disgusting to you? GET A GRIP.

The Geneva Conventions you refer to apply to conventional military forces, and irregulars are not discussed in this matter.

There have been many more cases than 37 internees dying (under VERY suspicious circumstances, mind you) in US "custody". Those prosecutions were a slap on the wrist, NO justice was done whatsoever. Do not be so idiotic to think that only the pictures you have seen and the things you have heard is all that is happening. Our torture and abuse (abuse being a very light word) is all too widespread. A pretty deplorable record, to say the least.

The chopping off of people's heads and mutilation is a DIRECT REACTION to the horrible actions of the US. PERIOD. Those occurrences show you how much these people want us out, and what desperate measures we have forced these people to take. For your info, the French Resistance was VERY notorious for mutilating their Nazi enemies.

YOUR argument was used during WWII (among other conflicts): "they are inhumane terrorists, and we are protecting ourselves and our freedoms, as well as fighting evil." As I mentioned, these people who used this argument (your argument) found themselves mutilated and hated by those they were oppressing just as we are. By the way, no prizes for guessing which country I was talking about (think: fascism).

I may not be talking to a "Chickenhawk", but I believe I am talking to a war-crimes apologist AND a supporter of oppression and injustice.

I was an Airborne Ranger for 12 years and had two combat tours. I'm well aware of sweeping the objective and how conventions do not apply in all circumstances.

That being said, I never allowed my soldiers to mistreat prisoners, but I am not stupid enough to think it does not happen - a lot. The video we both refer to shows a US troop shooting a helpless enemy combatant. Since you ran to the defense of the previous poster, please tell me how that is different from the murder of the helpless victim of the air crash.

NEITHER of the murders was right and I was pointing out to the previous poster that our guys do the same fucking thing.

So take your relative moralism somewhere else. In my book, murder is WRONG no matter who commits it. I will Not stand by and allow my Nation to be pulled into the gutter by moral relativists.

Big deal Marine grunt - nothing but a dirty leg.

I in no way condone what happened at Abu Ghraib. In fact, it's something I've been quite passionately following since May 6, 2004.

Remember the "mercy killing" of the Iraqi in the mosque in Fallujah a few months back by a US soldier?

Keep us posted!

I don't think so....

It doesn't look promising, does it?

just now). They said very little

It could have burned com,pletely after it hit the ground, y'know?

This was taken from a video grab shortly after it happened. y'know? :eyes:

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a helicopter that had been A)hit by a missile B)fell out of the sky and hit the ground and C)burned to a cinder.

why is that illogical?

It fulfills all the conditions you mentioned. Something like 16 troops were killed. And something like 8 survived.

Point being, nobody here is an expert in the dynamics of these crashes, so it is just as logical to think that somebody survived as to think otherwise. If the insurgents have video of a person they claim to have been on the helicopter, and he is clearly injured, I'm likely to believe it was actually a person on the helicopter. It would be pretty easy to disprove, in any case, since the identities of the people on the helicopter are known. But a simple picture of the burned helicopter (taken God knows when after God knows what chain of events) is not sufficient to disprove it under any reasonable standard of evidence. That's the point.

but I've been in one, and I'm still here.

Your assertion is correct.

Redstone

where everybody survived. Here's your dynamics live and up close, even if it was just a small chopper.

http://www.boredland.com/funnyvideos/files/12304162.wmv

It was the very first shown of the wreckage yesterday morning and was from a video grab. It was on fire before it crashed. The point is even IF someone survived, that they would not be pulling themselves away from the wreckage and talking for cripes sakes. It is extremely unlikely and makes this video of said "survivor" most likely fake. It would not be the first time.

It is perfectly plausible that someone on board survived the crash with a broken leg and worked to get away from the burning vehicle. I can't imagine why you're having such a hard time with this. It's not like we're talking about a 747 crashing into a mountain, for Christ's sake. It was a helicopter shootdown. We see people survive these with broken bones all the time. Claiming that that is implausible flies in the face of all our experience.

and I'm going to agree with you. I don't know for sure what happened. However, these are some conclusions I've drawn about the Pentagon and the type of information it releases:

1) We can never rely on anything they say. I have had long-standing issues about fatalities in Iraq. I believe it's much higher than they say.

2) Everything they do is tainted with propaganda.

2) We're still at war. Stan Goff wrote that war is mainly psychological.

Smoke trails behind a flaming helicopter in this image taken from TV. The commercial helicopter carrying civilian contractors was shot down by missile fire north of Baghdad Iraq Thursday April 21, 2005. The 11 people on the helicopter were all killed in the incident. (AP Photo/Al Jazeera Via APTN)


... and MSRNC has pulled the story. The OP link goes to a new story from Iraq and I can't find the original anywhere. But the "facts" of the original story are now firmly embedded in the ameriKans minds.
:eyes:

that there were no survovors of the WTC attacks, being all that was left was a pile of smoldering rubble.

and oranges :eyes:

did people survive the collapse of the towers? absolutely! but i don't regret the assumption I had that nobody would survive it, because it looked like hell on earth as it fell.

i make assumptions about all sorts of things, and I don't regret it when it turns out I'm wrong - because I assume based on reason and logic - not out of prejudice.

And I chose to assume that the execution was a hoax.

orgish if anyone wants to see it.

It seems like a lost art these days for people to actually reference the shit they post.

American soldier, walking through the dead and the wounded in some Baghdad room, when one of the wounded stirs. The soldier pops him and makes some comment (I truly don't recall what he said) that seemed rather callous.

And the news programs, for the 24 hours that video was a story, were falling over each other to declaim that we weren't necessarily getting the full story from the video clip, and how no one should rush to judgment of the American soldier who looked for all the world as if he had just committed a cold-blooded murder of a wounded man begging for help.

I'm absolutely sure, that in their fair and balanced way, that all the news outlets will once again be cautioning their viewers that they shouldn't rush to judgment based on this video clip, and how we don't have the full story, and we should let any investigation just proceed to find out the whole truth of this terrible incident.

What's that nurse? Time for my meds again? Okay.

"he's dead now"

So, there is 11 dead. 6 are american mercs,
3 were Bulgarian pilots, who were the other 3 people?

There were 3 Fiji nationals on board as well.

And said later that they were mercy killings. There have been a number of celebrated cases. That logic has generally been accepted - at least the punishments handed out in courts martial have been extremely lenient. I suppose Iraqis could well make the same claim in this case. Although the western press and governments will try to claim there is no comparison. Perhaps we will get the 'moral relativism' claim, whatever it is supposed to mean.

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working for the US govt.

murdered was American, even though he was speaking English.

color the Iraqis who are defending their nation from lawless and illegal invaders?

Well DONE kkkarl! WELL done! Pit the US chrizzie morons against the iraqis even MORE in your fake war.

Dogs of war get no sympathy here. Besides, they don't want our pity, these John Wayne types. LOL ... I'll bet a few of these dumb fucks never got a chance to spend their pile of cash.

Losers.

This helo was targeted for a reason? Now i am aware that American's are quite comfortable with "merc" deaths, but the deaths of senior American commanders in Iraq is another thing. The people who died in this helo shootdown were not "Blackwater" mercs! Lookaround the World Wide Web, they will tell you who was killed!

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refrain from personal attacks, even though another poster may anger you.

Fair, logical debate is a goal for us at DU.

Thanks.

PS I agree with you view regarding the issue just not the method of your counter.

seems a little different to me. I honestly believe there is a conspiracy in the NeoCon controlled/owned media. I KNOW many many Americans don't listen so carefully, have other things to care about, have lower education with difficulty understanding/filtering SPIN... I am 100% there are a large portion of Americans who heard "crash" and actually think this crashed which gives a feeling of it's not such a problem.