Fox News Poll: 79% of Americans want choice on Soc Sec

private accounts.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,154805,00.html

"Overall, fully 79 percent of the public think people under age 55 should have the right to choose between keeping all of their Social Security contributions in the current system and investing a portion of their funds. That support goes up to 84 percent among respondents under age 55.

On the personal level, 53 percent say they want the choice to invest a portion of their contributions, up from 48 percent in early February — soon after President Bush spoke in his State of the Union address about offering investment accounts. Among those under age 55, almost two-thirds (64 percent) want the option to invest."

Anyone else having trouble believing this poll? By Fox? Why, they would never make up figures on the day of a big news conference by their Chimperor-in-Chief, would they?

Faux can kiss my shiny metal ass. The only reason they got a number like 79% is because only wingers vote in the poll.

TYY:P

that's what I would have said, if I'd thought of it! Good one!

www.cafepress.com/showtheworld

'nuf said.

It doesn't jive with any other poll out there. Including some that were just done last week. F Fox!!!

Someone just left of a freeper perhaps?

these idiots just make up numbers :rofl:

I have been surprised that W hasn't done the "logical" next step more often and just have "polls" that support whatever he wants. Just ask only those folks at his "town meetings", or have Dibold "calculate" them. Why start asking the people what they want now?

Glad to have you here :hi:

:hi:

Welcome and you "got it!" Good post, my sediments, exactly!

You're in good company, now!

bullshit is too kind.

This flies in the face of what folks on the street are saying to me, whether Republican or Democrat.

Why is this not illegal? Because Faux is run by Republicans?

And I mean ANYTHING....oh except that Delay and Congress overreached on Schiavo.

at 7 in the morning, as the stockbrokers were going to work.

are they talking to, registered repukes only?

Of course they wouldn't want to be FORCED to do it.

What percentage of the respondents were actually under age 55? More important, where they also asked if they actually WOULD open a private SS account, or if they think it's a good idea?

:headbang:
rocknation

No longer content with simple omission, they have dived feet first into Soviet-like full and complete lies.

Why? Because they don't have to even bother pretending anymore that they are a News Organization.

Which they NEVER were.

Now they are REALLY coming out of the closet on this one.

They are Soviet Pravda. They are Nazi Der Sturmer. They are the antithetial nightmare that stands opposed to freedomeverywhere.

And, in truth, for Third-World nations all over the earth not just Amerika, they are what most of the World's Oppressed and Unfree Citiznery gets for "news".

State-Sponsored Lies.

Welcome to the Thrid-World Amerika. You asked for it, you got it.

even though some other posts here treat this like something "deplorable" and irresponsible obtained by manipulation when in fact it is dispicable, brazen fucking fabrication.

... of a "poll" entirely designed to defraud. It's criminal, imho.

If they were to ask something like:

Do you want to:
a) have your taxes go up to cover paying money to those who've gone broke on investing all of their SS money in private accounts, since money contributed to government SS plan has been significantly reduced.

or

b) keeping the system as is where the government still has the investment money coming in from contributors and is responsible for paying back the claims of individuals for SS, even in an economic downturn where those invested privately might lose their shirts.

or something like that, I think the polls results might be quite different. Of course a lot of the freepers might say there should be a third option like so:

c) Not pay any more taxes and let those poor saps that didn't invest wisely in their private accounts starve to death or go to debtors prison. That will be a good way to keep the gene pool intelligent, though we don't want to give the appearance of endorsing Darwinist ideologies.

The questions are designed (wording and sequence) even more insidiously.

I still think it needs to be pointed out how brazen they are becoming.

When you put that in, support for privitization plunges.

This poll question is essentially, "Would you like a free lunch? Invest part of your contribution and still get all your guaranteed benefits?" Who wouldn't want that?

The Idiot King's non-plan involves cutting a person's guaranteed benefits by the amount they would expect to gain from investing. It's a wash or a loss for most people.

http://www.pollingreport.com/social.htm


All but FOX show a trend toward disapproval. FOX seems to have focused on registered voters and not the pool of all adults.

don't want a choice. I thought they did better brainwashing than that over at Faux.

Late Breaking Bull Shit

from the ignorant, and catch a troll or two.

I don't know why Dems aren't screaming to these people that everyone already has the option to invest privately. Social Security is our padding incase our already privately invested account(s) goes belly up.

plus 95% of their viewers are hardcore, brainwashed repukes.

the blame-the-Jews stuff for a few years.

he really did wrong.

I think we may need to start protests directly against faux news. They have become O'Lielly News. They just make stuff up to suit them just like their main boy falafel fucker.

And, surprise surprise, they won.

On appeal to a crooked Bushevik-Loaded "Three-Judge Panel" of the type that has become infamous for their Imperial corruptions.

http://www.foxbghsuit.com/
http://www.axiusnews.com/Dove/2003/mar/dove030403.htm (scroll down for info and for an additional Sierra Times article)
http://www.relfe.com/media_can_legally_lie.html
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/2003/March/02/AppelateCourtRules2.htm

So, no, the "news" is not legally required to be "real".

Welcome to the New Soviet Union, Comrade.

instead of "fair and balanced", perhaps we could sue them over this for misrepresentation.

I wonder if Murdoch is ever going to figure out why more people are tuning into blogs instead of MSM now. All that whining about him and his advertisers losing ratings to blog sites don't have me shedding a single tear (except in joyful laughter).

Earth to Murdoch! If you weren't trying to push your agenda onto us and were truely performing the duties of a traditional free press, you probably wouldn't have those worries! This is the cost of "doing business" with the Bushies and the Rethugs!

that's pure hogwash.

The Poll can be read at http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/poll_042705.pdf

When you examine the sequence and wording of the questions, it's clear they designed it to skew the results. Here're three of the questions they asked, in the sequence they asked them:

16. Based on what you know about the Social Security proposal for personal investment accounts, is it your understanding that individuals could continue under the current system if they wanted or is it your understanding that everyone would be required to put a portion of their retirement money in stocks and mutual funds?

17. Thinking about Social Security contributions, do you think people under 55 should have the right to choose between keeping all of their contributions in the current system and investing a portion of their contributions?

18. Based on what you know about the Social Security personal investment proposal, would you want the choice to invest a portion of your Social Security contributions in stocks or mutual funds?

Nowhere do they ask whether such "personal (propaganda alert!!!) investment accounts" should be created in the first place! They prime the pollee to think in terms of such a proposal already enacted. The questions are designed to appear as though they're surveying the pollee's knowledge of the (ill-defined and unwritten) proposal, rather than their preferences regarding the proposal in the first place. Question 18 is even more ambiguous. The pollee is clearly being conned into thinking the "choice" is between "stocks" and "mutual funds" ... not between having such accounts or not in the first place.

They're getting desperate. I've not seen such blatantly mal-designed questions in a "news" poll before. Usually, such perversions are kept to the campaign "push polls."

It should be noted that other polls have asked the question as:

"Would you support or oppose a plan in which people who chose to could invest some of their Social Security contributions in the stock market?"

This makes it somewhat clearer that the opinion being solicited is about supporting the Piratization Proposal itself ... even though there's still disinformation regarding Social Security as an "investment" in the first place, rather than being insurance.

It should also be noted that the telephone poll was (purportedly) conducted on April 25-26. That was Monday and Tuesday. It's very well-known that working class Democrats are under-represented in weekday-only telephone polling. Over-sampling in the South will counter the demographic of "Dem" vs. "Rep" with a lot of "Zell Miller Democrats" ... people who're Bushbots.

These people are totally detestable! :puke:

These questions must've been designed by Karl Rove himself. He couldn't do any "better."

pollster to repeat the question 3 times before they could get a feel for what was being asked.

16. Based on what you know about the Social Security proposal for personal investment accounts, is it your understanding that individuals could continue under the current system if they wanted...
<eyes glaze over>

... are all deliberately designed to elicit the maximum bias in responses. It's fucking incredible that they're getting so blatant. They even use the White-House-approved phrase "personal investment account" rather than the more neutral "private account."

Just as interesting is their deliberate "priming" of the bias pump by asking, in question 15,

15. Who do you trust more to handle your retirement investment decisions -- you and your family or the federal government?

This primes the pump. It sets up a bias that Goebbels would love. It's worded as sheer propaganda. "you and your family" indeed!! How about "God" and "apple pie" as well? (Never mind the incorrect use of "who" vs. "whom.")

These people are worse than Pravda and Tass in the "bad old days."

It's very important, imho, that people examine this poll and get to understand how insidious and blatant these people have become.

along with the ones made by TahitiNut. When I read that question 18 I had to think about it for a second.

Another point - this was a phone poll and the questions about social security come later. If it was me, I'd be inclined to be about ready to say anything to get the person off the phone as my eyes glaze over from listening to the person.

I think phone polling, in general is a lousy way to poll because half the time the people polling are not very good at asking the questions and just get on your nerves anyway.

So combine the fact that it was a phone poll, with the very ambiguous manner of questioning and I'd say this is not reliable at all.

Antoher thing I noticed about their polls is that though they are supposedly of registerred voters, they have an awful high percentage of responders who have no opinion on the question when that is an option.

Also, one last thing, note this little disclaimer in their methodology section:

Weighting

Generally, Fox News poll results are not weighted. The national probability sample, if conducted properly, should accurately reflect national attitudes. However, particularly because the survey is often conducted over only two nights (limiting the opportunity for callbacks), some demographic deviation is possible. Opinion Dynamics Corporation has a constantly updated database of demographic information about the national samples and, if one should deviate significantly from past averages, weighting is used to bring the sample into conformity with other samples.

It'd be interesting to see the raw dated on these, particularly were weighting is concerned as that can easily be manipulated. It says the makeup is supposed to 39% Democrat, 39% Repub, 17% Independant and the rest (5%) are something like Refuse to identify party.

This is a push poll, there is know way around that. Also these people are really uninformed if they don't know who Tom Delay or Annan are. This is meant to disinform.
Also you can tell that these so called dems are repub lite because Cheney has a positive approval rating. How can that be? He has been in hiding since dimson got elected.

They might as well emblazon the poll report with a PROPAGANDA stamp.

I also notice that 1% of those (purportedly) polled never heard of Dick Cheney. Astonishing.

YMMV.

Yes, please.

Any logician or (academically-trained) computer programmer understands that one. (And most folks with a functioning brain.)

:thumbsup::thumbsdown:

:shrug:

'Yes' OR 'No' = 'Yes'
'No' OR 'Yes' = 'Yes'
'Yes' OR 'Yes' = 'Yes'

See?

(a) best or best
(b) best and best
(c) best not bad

when even the FAUX poll was consistently showing shrub and Kerry neck-and-neck, and occasionally showing Kerry ahead?
No way a subsequent poll properly run would show these results now.
I believe you've discerned the reason for the results. :thumbsup:

mis-representation of the truth. Funny, their poll varies so differently than every other poll on SS. You can bet the bu$h administration will attempt to pass this off as fact. since the other network are vying for ratings-WHY NOT BRING DOWN THIS CONSTRANT PERPETRATOR OF LIES!

COME ON CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC-DON'T YOU WANT THEIR SHARE OF THE PIE?

EXPOSE THIS FAUX NEWS!

to Faux.

Even if they weren't, the Imperials would target them for destruction, as they did Dan Rather when they suckered him with Phony Documents (that tunred out to be true documents regarding the content, but were phony--apparently, a brilliant CIA Black Op if ever I heard one!).

So don't expect the Mice to Roar (well, except at the weak and Powerless...they are VERY tough when confronting the Weak and Powerless) anytime soon.

market share might entice them to sprout some integrity. The other networks are indicating that the majority of Americans are not supporting the (faux) president's SS plan.

There is much competition for Faux New's market share, why not suggest they show Fox's true colors?

I can only conclude that there are other forces at work out there that prevent it.

Perhaps the fear of having a CBS-style Op run against them, or simply the good old-fshioned fear of the Flinching Coward who has been punched a lot and will do ANYTHING not to be beaten again.

Anmd by beaten, I refer to the incessant and now patently false charges of "Liberal Media Bias" every time they DARE report what THE PARTY actually DID, instead of repeating their lies uncritically verbatim.

In either case, mod mom, you'd think it would have already happened.

But it hasn't and I don't believe it will.

Yes, they have higher ratings of # of viewers at any one time, but when you talk about audience reach, CNN still kicks its ass, and gets more ad dollars because of this.

Fox News gets a smaller and more hard core audience that tune in for longer periods of time where CNN and others have those tune in for a short time to get news and leave (and presumably go out and buy products and services that the advertisers want them to, not continue to veg at the TV set watching Hannity, etc.).

Read here for more details:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2005

Don't keep perpetuating the myth that Fox News rules the ratings. CNN still gets more money for their ad sales, and there's a reason for that.

Faux's chunk of the pie.

they also had * sitting at 47% approval rating, which we all know to be BS

President Bush’s job approval sits at 47 percent, with 43 percent disapproving

other polls are showing his rating to be as low as 43 percent, but half of what comes out of faux is Rummy's propaganda machine he wanted so badly

OMG what a bunch of bullshit. I think even the GOPers are starting to see through this shit now.

then this would be their proof in the pudding

BS!! who did they poll?I guess only Repugs.Every other poll shows a strong majority opposing Shrub's idiotic plan.

That's like polling on gun laws at an NRA convention or abortion at Bob Jones University . . .

believe there are WMD's in Iraq

fully 79 percent of the public think people under age 55 should have the right to choose between keeping all of their Social Security contributions in the current system AND investing a portion of their funds.

why I support this too!!! You mean I can have the Constitutional right to choose between keeping all my contributions in the current system while simultaneously investing it all...awesome?!? :wow:


Over three-quarters (78 percent) of the public think young women should be required to notify at least one parent OR guardian before having an abortion and 72 percent support requiring permission from at least one parent.

Sure..I believe young women under 18 should be required to have permission for an abortion from some adult, any parent or guardian such as a lawyer or medical doctor. Why not?

More generally, when Social Security is not mentioned, most Americans say they trust themselves (77 percent) over the government when it comes to making retirement investment decisions.(15 percent)

I don't trust the government to screw around with my personal stocks or savings, just make sure we get our Social Security checks!

and get the answers you want. They should have asked people if they wanted as much money as possible in Social Security. 100% would say yes. :dumb:

today to bolster the chimp's "statement" tonight. Just another in an endless parade of chimp/rove tricks.

A sample of 900 registered voters. The question was framed as "should people have a right to choose such and such" rather than "do you want YOUR social security left to the vagaries of the market". It is not surprising that results would be skewed that way when the question is framed in rights language.

If you guys think social security doesn’t require a kick in the butt, then your blinded by party B.S. and not the facts. I’m not talking about the Shrubs facts. Both sides of the isles have voice concerned over SS in the last 15 years.

If we don’t like a corporation stealing money from the elderly, then we as a party had better come up with some ideas to fix it.

I'm 26 and I personally want a choice, but not at the expense of the Elderly. Why don't we have more choices on the table....This is starting to look like a onesided effort.

This shit is getting old. I'm thinking of going Green or hell libertarian....Dems and Repugs are too busy fighting each other to be worth a damn.

....I'll be written off as some plant or some other stupid conspiracy.

The "choice" card currently being played by the Right wing won't fix SS problems that are set to happen at what 2042?


Even so, no one is stoppin you from going to a brokerage firm and opening a market-based account. I have one myself. I don't want the govement giving me MORE risk.

SS needs tweaking, not overhauling in ways that will do nothing to solve the problem.

both Social Security and private accounts..sounds great
Social Security checks or private accounts..not in the poll, but don't I already have the right to do both?

I'm not so savvy with this SS stuff, so have a heart...

Yes we have a choice already to do both, but isn't the point that we don't have a choice right now to take a third out of our SS taxes and apply THAT to a "private" account? What if I had no other money to use to invest except the taxes I pay to SS? Then I couldn't do both, as it stands right now.

These specifics I don't (obviously) understand.

What I do understand though, (which I think takes more logic and common sense IMO) is that taking ANYTHING out of SS is not acceptable. The mere fact that it is underfunded and that this is even a thought, let alone a plan ...lol, is Bush at his usual best - (which is as always, opposite) therefore, at his WORST.

In another thought, the republicans are trying to say we don't have a plan, and that is all they can respond with when they are addressed with questions about THEIR plan. The Dem's have the greatest opportunity to have our "PLAN" put in an ad and spread all over the networks/radio etc. Move On would be great at this. If they want to poll like its a push poll for election year, then why don't we send out ads with policy "plans" as if it were election year?

if this had been the question, the public would not approve. The majority does not support paying more in SS taxes, if it results in their parents receiving even less. Taking a third of young workers' Social Security taxes and investing it will ultimately result in higher personal expenses to help financially strapped parents. Reducing payments of young workers into the Social Security fund when the ratio of retiring folks is now growing will only make things more difficult, especially as growing numbers of retiring workers begin withdrawing this capital from their investments. What will happen to employment and stock values as babyboomers pull this money out?

Social Security exists to help cushion the private market when it crashes, not make it harder.

This "poll" only demonstrates how utterly desperate and moronic this administration is.

They're failing about--and scrambling to save their unpopular, ridiculous SocSec plan.

Using Fox News-the administration is attempting to convince America that the idea is popular.

How low can these rats go?

Do they think we are all mindless lemmings--just waiting for the next propaganda injection?

This ONE poll defies every, single poll out there.

This administration is getting sicker by the moment. No joke. They're losing it, big time.

EVERY other poll doesn't support Shurb's SS scam.

Damn the news whore's slip is showing.

get asked. No one I know believes in this private account BS. :banghead:

and how stupidly have they gotten used to speaking down to their audience? They took this poll by going to the local bar, buying a few rounds and staging a darts competition - If you hit this block, it's 79%, if you hit that block it's 64%

What else would one expect. I hold them accountable, like others on my $hit list for dividing this country and brainwashing so many disenfranchised, under and un-educated Americans.

Screw Fox. They really should change their logo. The word "NEWS" does not equate with their spin.

OPINE on that one O'REALLY, ANNIE GET YOUR GUN & HANNITY-A$$!

properly sampled poll.