Turkey massing troops along Kurdish areas of Iraq border

LONDON — Turkey was said to have massed troops along its southern border with Iraq.

Kurdish opposition sources said thousands of Turkish troops have been gathering in positions near the Iraqi border. They said the Turkish military formation was taking place in the Kurdish areas of southeastern Turkey.

The Turkish troops deployed near the Iraqi border were identified as units of two commando brigades, Bolu and Kayseri. The sources said the commando forces were seen in the Cukurca district of Hakkari.

The sources said more than 10,000 troops have been deployed in Cukurca.

They said information on the troop concentrations was relayed by the Turkish Gendarmerie Command to forces in the district.

"It was learned that these preparations are being carried out within the framework of an operation against south Kurdistan ," the Kurdish television Roj, based in Copenhagen, reported on April 26.


(more)

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/front2453493.9868055554.html

More and more turmoil every day in that part of the world.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Bush is more of a threat to world peace than ANYONE.

What a horrible mess.

That shouldn't surprise anyone. I remember this was mentioned ad nauseam before the invasion of Iraq: if we went in, Turkey would likely invade and annex the Kurdish area of Iraq.

Well, it seems like this may happen.

In that case, Turkey can say goodbye for good to any aspirations of joining the EU.

This was one of the "nightmare" scenarios described before Dubya got his Iraqi wet dream......

Hope nothing materializes but I don't have a lot of faith in either Dubya or Condi's diplomatic skills.....

if this turns into another war, no hope for us getting out. My grandson due to return to Iraq in Sept. The nightmare returns for our family.

I know that I could not stand to have a child of mine over there - no way. I hope he returns safely home.

Bushco and the republicans need a diversion, this was probably one of the outs they had already set up. Not telling Turkey directly or even indirectly but in a covert and seductive way so they all could have cover. Also note, without fail the US has destabilized every place it ever went into when it did not get what it wanted. So why should that place be any different?

that it's possible, but I don't give either Dubya or Condi that much credit....I don't think either is bright enough to manipulate the situation.

To me it would all seem too convenient for the OIL companies since these folks hold so much of their allegiance to them. Really trying to figure out where these people get their voice is the object, it's obvious they are not their own person and have very little original thought.

In taking hold or weakening any one of the entities hold on all these well heads would seem like an important job and dividing it up is the first logical choice if you can't control it as a whole. It's also becoming quite obvious that the US military will not be able to hold on to it for very much longer because the strong arm tactic of invasion has failed and the population didn't surrender to submission. So divide it up some how to make it easier to deal with is what they might be doing. If you were an oil company executive what scenarios would be tolerable to you?

They might not be all that monolithic but they are trying to hold it together that way, find the cracks and exploit them so they can expose themselves for the creeps they really are.

If they were nudging Turkey (Poppy did have April Glaspie give a wink-and-nod to Hussein's look at Kuwait, so who knows), wouldn't they realize Turley would love to yoink the oil-rich city for themselves while they're at it?

let the Turks, who are a rock solid US ally, do the dirty work of securing Kirkuk for them ...

when we started our war crime in Iraq. I don`t think Bu$h Inc. can trust Turkey. As they can trust our Pravda style media.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

It is a rock solid ally, just not a suicidal ally.

and one of the reasons Turkey isn't part of EU. The Kurds are strong there if Turkey makes an incursion citing the war on terrorism and the failed Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive attack.

HORRIFIC HUMAN RIGHTS RECORD. tORTURE IS ENDEMIC THROUGHOUT ALL ARMS OF THE STATE AND THEY HAVE YET TO TAKE IT FROM THEIR STATUTE BOOKS AS A LEGITIMATE TOOL OF THE POLICE.

wOMAN ARE TREATED AS SECOND CLASS CITIZENS AND kURDS ARE TREATED AS ANIMALS

ONE STRANGE LAW AIMED AT THE KURDS IS THAT NO-ONE IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY ARE ALLOWED TO GIVE THEIR CHILD A NAEM WITH CERTAIN LETTERS IN IT. tHE LETTERS BEING THOSE COMMON IN kURDISH CULTURE.

THE TURKS HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF CULTURAL ANNHIALATION AND BRUTALITY. IN FACT THEY INVENTED GENOCIDE WHEN DEALING WITH THE ARMENIANS.

I guess this is what happens when imperialists make up arbitrary borders, splitting up ethnic groups to create convenient nation-states.
:scared:

Turkish troops = NVA

I have yet to hear of american troops engaging Turkish troops in major battle. Remember most real battles were with NVA regulars. We fought them in large numbers and they were at that time in history the third largest army on earth..They assaulted Khe Sahn with tanks. I personally witnessed the burnt out hulks left behind. People have a profound misunderstanding of Vietnam... I never ever once witnessed an enemy that was not in full uniform and carrying modern weapons.

Kurds prepare for guerrilla war in Iran
Published: 14/4/2005, 09:47 (UAE)

Near Sulaimaniya, Iraq: Kurdish fighters dedicated to overthrowing the Iranian Government are hiding out in the mountains of northern Iraq, waiting for a chance to strike at Tehran.

Gulf News gained exclusive access to the militiamen as they trained for a full-scale guerrilla war that could send shockwaves through the region.

(snip)

The fighters are members of Komala, a group of militant socialist Kurds dedicated to bringing down Tehran. Hundreds of young men and women armed with AK47 rifles, machine guns and RPGs are training in northern Iraq for this mission.

Many more are based across the border and group leaders say the rebels are already carrying out "covert actions" in Iran.

http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/RegionNF.asp?ArticleID=160707

I missed that. So in the worst-case scenario, Kurdish Peshmergas are getting ready to start a guerrilla war in Iran, and Turkey - which has excellent relations with Iran and is united with them in the "Kurdish question" - are going to invade northern Iraq. The US are going to bomb Iran and declare war on Turkey.

The best-selling book in Turkey these days is reportedly a novel about a war between the US and Turkey.

There success will depend on what happens with Turkey. Kurds have been fighting oppression in Turkey for ever and are classed as Terrorists by Turkey.

If Turkey join the EU and play ball with the US in all other ways you can guarantee the Kurds will turn from freedom fighters into terrorists in our media. It happened in Chechnya it will happen here

What do you call Iraqi Kurds crossing into Turkey and bombing the border towns and cities?

it pleases you. The IRA were freedom fighters in the american press, yet were blowing up pubs and shopping centres in England killing innocents.

The Jewsish stern gang in what was then the state of Palastine in the 1940s were called freedom fighters whilst blowing up hotels and shops and hanging British soldiers from trees.

The PLO and Yasser Arafat enjoyed brief classification as freedom fighters until the Munich Olympics.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. It depends whether you agree with their cause as to whether you believe blowing up babies is abhorrent.

Its hypocritical and sick but true

The PKK target civilians, not the government or Turkish troops.

They are terrorists.

America loved them.

The brave struggle against British oppression included for example: putting a bomb in a bin and blowing three little boys to pieces on a shopping street on their way to buy a new pair of sneakers with their saved up pocket money.

27 people, mostly teenagers blown to peices enjoying a drink in a pub in Birmingham.

Gas facility 2 miles from my house with an old peoples home next door blown to bits.

Omagh high street on a busy saturday afternoon 29 dead

The list goes on.

My point is that one man's freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. I don't support any kind of action against civilians at all, i do believe they should all be consistently condemned by the press, not glorified like in the case of the IRA or the Stern Gang when the effects are the same.

DEAD CIVILIANS

The U.S. supported Britain in Ireland. The U.S. has called for the unarming and disbanding of the IRA for decades.

The U.S. designated the IRA as a terrorist group more than 10 years ago.


You might want to find another example if you want to be taken seriously.

ten years. In fact ten years ago coincided with the beginning of the peace process.

The IRA have been blowing up innocent people since the 1960s funded mainly by groups in America.

Noraid for example.

If you search arcives of your own countries press you will find the blatantly bias coverage of the 'struggle' by many papers in your county, and i didn't mention your government i was talking about the press and the people who bought into the press' account.

But i'm sorry i shouldn't generalise, i'll rephrase that as many people.

"Anyone who harbours or funds terrorists" is our enemy your president said.

America did both for the glorious irish. Look at the facts.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

i'm the authority on Turkey at all.

I was making the point that groups are classed as freedom fighters or terrorists depending on who's describing them and where their affiliation lies.

I used the IRA as an example to highlight how easily these descriptions can shift, depending on the circumstances.

If you read my posts again you may get a better idea of the point i was making.

the native americans were genocidally removed from their land; because they were fragmented.

Well it was obviously their fault.

Anyway nowhere in my argument did i say Kurds were terrorists, you should read what i write if you want to criticise my argument

Do we support the Iranian fundy islamic govt or "commie" Kurds....
My guess is that they'll downplay the socialist part of that and tell the media to do the same.

Of course, the repubs could do what they did in the 80's; support both sides (Iran/Iraq war) and supply them both with weapons to kill as many of them on either side (heck, they're all "brown ragheads" ya know) including women and children. The repubs didn't seem to care too much for their freedom.

big riots within the last few months. If I'm not mistaken, recently Iran was accused of being behind a big influx of Arabs into Kurdish areas, which Iran vehemently denied. My first thought was that the US was behind that story....

News to the clueless (freepers, NOT you): Iranians are Persian, not Arab.

Idiots.

That has been said since before this whole mess started. It's just a matter of time. Turkey will not put up with a independent Kurdish state. Just a fact of life. If the Kurds in Iraq get a country, then the Kurds in Turkey, (you know the ones, the same ones Turkey has been killing for years, but let's not call it genocide), will want their own republic as well.

and it all started with a mindless war with spurrious rationales. Problem is GW and his ilk get off on winning thru confrontation. "If there ain't no fight, what's the fun in winning??" so to speak. I fear the only question is where is the next 'provocation' going to take place. Peace thru superior firepower my butt.

republic, they'll want reunification. The operative word here is "Kurdistan." Kurdistan does not exist, except in the hearts and minds of the Kurds.

There was a story I read recently about how one of the Kurd political parties/militias in Iraq has in their headquarters a map with the country of Kurdistan on it, which overlapped Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and if I'm not mistaken a piece of Jordan as well.

I imagine a Kurdish uprising is a Likud/Neocon wet dream. Wouldn't surprise me if the Israelis were helping that process out.

:popcorn:

the Kurds - who are largely secular and left-leaning - have received extensive covert training and assistance from israel.

Don't you all remember that we went into Iraq to defend its border from Turkish incursions? Remember how Dubya went on national teevee and warned the Turks to quit threatening Iraq or there's be heck to pay? Heck, I tell ya!

And now, mission accomplished, as our fearless, freckle-faced, star-spangled men and women in uniform take on the Godless hordes of Turkey, liberating our great and good friends the Kurds from their terroristic designs!

God bless America.

their muscles. They did it in the build up to war, and are just sending messages to the kurds. However once the Americans and Brits have gone home in a few years time, just watch those kurds build up their army and start something with turkey and Iran. Kurdistan straddles Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria and they are gonna want their nation back.

Self determination is all part of the doctrine of us being in Iraq, but self determination can get awful bloody, just look at the Balkans. European troops are still in there keeping everyone apart.

Turkey is hell-bent on preventing the Kurds from obtaining any more power than they currently have.

Turkey will not allow the Iraqi Kurds and the Turkish Kurds from coordinating or working together politically or militarily. Turkey will attack the Kurds to prevent it.


As a Turkish-American with relatives in the Turkish government, Turkey knows the U.S. is in no position to tell them what to do and Turkey wants a final solution to the Kurdish problem. And they want it soon.

Are we talking 1930's - 1940's Germany type 'final solution' here?

If the Kurds continue to use terrorist attacks against Turkey, it might end up that way.

And since it falls within Bush's "war on terrorism", the U.S. has no standing in preventing it.

I understand that the Turks wil prevent a Kurdistan at all costs. What i mean is that they are flexing their muscles at the moment. There is no way that Turkey is gonna go into Iraq with the US in there. Once the US and Britain leave is when it will all happen. Kurds in Turkey rising up against aggression cordinated across the border.

I can see the headlines now. "Kurdish Terrorists"

And then our now friends will magically become our enemies.

If there's a Kurdish attack in Turkey, or if Turkey feels they are being threatened, Turkey can claim they are following the guidelines Bush set in his war on terrorism and cross into other countries to prevent further or future attacks.

Bush will be powerless to stop them. Politically and militarily. After all, Turkey would be following Bush's own pre-emptive policy.

Turkey is a lot more saavy then people give them credit for.

I recall in 2003, during the buildup to war in Iraq. The US was moving forces, already had destroyers in the gulf, getting ready to use Turkey as a staging area. I think they even had a few troops (but for sure lots of supplies and provisions) that had already been unloaded in Turkey. There were some photos, I think on Yahoo news.

Suddenly, without warning, the Turkish government said "No" to the US plans. Washington made all these plans, and then they had to change them.

This was quite an event. I just remember shaking my head, thinking "My God they are presumptious". Just imagine the cost of having to change their plans.

The bottom line is, Turkey ended up turning down a bribe of $24 billion dollars to be Prostitute for a Day. An amazing turn of events.

ReumsFailed mentioned it recently. He said, "we weren't able to capture all the terrorists because Turkey denied us access in the early stages of the war".

Thanks for the info, T. Please keep us posted on any new developments.:smoke:

in writing. Thay aren't $tupid and told * to $hove it.

Turkey had already started receiving some of the money, but also saw where Bush was reneging on other obligations to other countries and wanted the rest of the deal in writing.

The $24 billion wasn't the biggest part of the deal, the forgiveness of over $130 billion in loans was the biggest part.

Bush had forgiven tens of billions as a sign of "good will", but he refused to put the rest in writing.


Turkey didn't want the troops to move through their country anyway for various reasons, so Bush's unwillingness to sign an agreement gave Turkey a public out. Then the legislature rejected it outright giving the government another out.

Turkey had already received $7 to $10 billion of the promised $24 billion before they finally rejected the request to move troops through the country. They also got Bush to forgive billions in loans Turkey had with the U.S.

The Turkish administration played Bush like a fiddle. Signed, sealed and delivered.


The Turkish government only gave approval at first for the U.S. to use its territory to move troops because they knew the legislature would vote it down, and they knew by the time the legislature voted, they would have already started receiving U.S. financial support and concessions. I understand government officials lobbied legislators behind the scenes to reject it while at the same time telling Bush they supported it.


The other reason Turkey denied the U.S. the right to move troops through its country is because Turkey knew Israel was arming and training the Kurds in the north. Even though Turkey and Israel are wary allies, Israel has ignored Turkey's request that Israel stop supporting the Iraqi Kurds. Turkey didn't want the Israeli military on their soil, and Bush wanted to move Israeli paramilitary troops through Turkey into northern Iraq.


All sides were playing off of one another, but Bush was the only one not to benefit from it.

that was the french and germans.

You didn't think, you listened to your crappy warmonger media.

This is not about self determination but about carving up Iraq by Turkey, Bush, and Iran. We could have helped Iraq freedom fighters overthrow Saddam years ago. But then Bush and company would have never got their hands on all that oil.

:toast:

Indeed the Turks are waiting until it's their turn. So there are two options. Either the US will decide to include Turkey in their Coalition since they are a valuable NATO asset or it'll wait until the US leaves and then invade.

Edit: Toast. It's not :cheers: but toast LMAO

Remember, they all went to Jerusalem to fight the heathen Turks. Yee-ha. It's been too long, time for a replay.

I'm sure he told Sharon that Israel's support of the Kurds through the sale of arms and the use of Israeli paramilitary training troops has emboldened the Kurds and Turkey will protect its border cities from attacks using all means necessary.

What I'd like to know is Sharon's response.

There are conflicting things going on. Erdogan had some rhetoric
about "fighting terror together" or some thing, which might be a
hint to Sharon about the meddling with the Kurds, but there is also
a lot of cooperation between Turkey and Israel at the economic level,
and trying to get into the EU, etc.

I was thinking he might have just told him to "stay out of it" or
"let us take care of it" or something like that, or possibly that
they were not really going into Iraq yet, so not to panic.

There are also fundamental conflicts in the "interests" of Turkey and
Israel, so it's a difficult one to figure out.

I would not mind knowing what Sharon had to say either.

There have been and there will be many and divers destructions of mankind, of which the greatest are by fire and water, and lesser ones by countless other means. -Plato


Just another chapter....

,...shit, shit, shit,....

,...the neoCONs are gonna' get their great, big, messy world war,...

:grr:

Not that it's inaccurate, but I'd like to see some other perspectives.

Every day, in every way, I hate * more and more.

And to the fellow "oh, shit" poster: I second that 10 times over!!!

S-H-I-T! Gotta bang the head "thingy" again!

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Iraq would like to become part of Iran?

Edit: Not sure, but I think I can hear the very distant drums of unrest in Saudi Arabia too. Yes, the tom-toms are definately coming from there too. Hold on folks, we are coming into some air turbulence.

At Kurd police HQ - over 60 dead
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=8384586
I feel like i'm in a nightmare and i'm not even in Iraq...poor souls.

at all. It seems to me, what we think of as nations by and large are actually groups of loosely affiliated people very different ethnically from each other. If given the even a little opportunity, by a weak government, the whole thing crumbles into much smaller states of common ethnic background.

Like the British in the middle east to India, when they got there it was small kingdoms held by a Prince with hardly any allegiance to anyone else. The British turned each of these areas into larger nations to administer better, but the people by and large remained the same with a very closed allegiance.

The map of the middle east could be changing very rapidly in the near future. I doubt it will change to the west's liking either, or the corporations controlling the resources. It is far easier for corporations to deal with nations. They won't come out of this well.

I wonder if PNAC considered this when they kicked the hornets nest. Probably not, Strauss wasn't that smart actually.

Especially Strauss, a mediocre mind if I ever saw one.

of Hannah Arendt

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/49/articles/leo_strauss/noflash.html

Sure, they may crack down on Kurds in Turkey, but they aren't going to go into Iraq and bust heads until long after our troops are out of there.

They're not stupid, and we have military bases in Turkey, for Chrissakes. Believe me, this isn't a worry bead you need to be fondling.

Regardless of the U.S.

Bush set the standard when he announced his pre-emptive terrorist policy. Bush won't dare prevent Turkey from enforcing his own policy if Turkey attacks after they are attacked, or have intelligence of a future attack.

And Bush showed Turkey the intelligence doesn't even have to be accurate or true. If the U.S. protests, Turkey merely has to demonstrate how they followed Bush's procedures for justifying the Iraq war.


The U.S. bases in Turkey are surrounded by Turkish bases, intentionally. Unless Bush wants to watch them get wiped out, they'll be forced to sit on their hands. And much of the U.S. bases in Turkey were drawn down to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq.


It's funny how people don't give Turkey any credit for being on top of things.

but Turkey WILL NOT, WILL NOT do anything to American bases that are allegedly surrounded. That's an absurb allusion. Will Turkey forray into Iraq in search of the PKK? Perhaps. The would be the pretense of their invasion but it would not be to annex part of Northern Iraq. I'd be happy to debate the issue ad nauseam with anyone of Turkish descent or otherwise.

The poster I responded to insinuated that Bush could attack Turkey from inside if Turkey went after the Kurds in Iraq.

If Bush attempted that, Turkey would wipe out every single U.S. soldier in Turkey with very little loss of life or property.


Turkey has no plans to annex any part of Iraq. That's a strawman on your part.

I don't believe Turkey has any intent to "annex" any part of Iraq. I said so in plain English. The essence of my previous post was that combat between the Turks and the US in Turkey (or elsewhere) is ludicrous and it makes no sense to debate who-could-do-what-to-whom.

and the fact that the whole place seems to be exploding into civil war, if tha last few days are any indication.

The Kurds promised the U.S. to stop attacks in Turkey during the lead-up to the Iraq war. The agreement is weakening now that the Kurds are getting into positions of power.


There has been an increase in incursions into Turkish territory by the Kurds in the last few months. Border attacks are picking up and Kurdish spies have been caught inside of Turkish cities.


This can rightfully be seen as a pre-emptive strike on the Kurds by Turkey. Turkey will use Bush's policy against the Kurds. It's partially designed to split the Kurds from the Bush administration and further weaken them.

They are about as bad as Debka.com

Take this article with a grain of salt.

From the New Yorker...

In fact, the World Tribune is not published in the United Kingdom, nor is it, to be precise, a newspaper. It is a Web site produced, more or less as a hobby, in Falls Church, Virginia, and is dedicated to the notion, as its mission statement explains, that “there is a market for news of the world and not just news of the weird.” (Nonetheless, the site includes a prominent feature, Cosmic Tribune, with an extraterrestrial focus, and it links to a Mafia journal called Gang Land News.) Its editor and publisher, Robert Morton, is an assistant managing editor at the Washington Times and a former “corporate editor” for News World Communications, the Times’ owner and the publishing arm of the Unification Church, led by the Reverend Sun Myung Moon. (Morton and his wife, Choon Boon, are themselves followers of the Reverend Moon.) Among the World Tribune’s other recent half-ignored scoops are that Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for last month’s blackout and that a North Korean defector stressed, during a meeting in July with White House officials, the need for a preëmptive military strike against Kim Jong Il.

<SNIP>

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/?030908ta_talk_mcgrath

There is nothing on Google News Search on this...

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=turkey+kurdistan

Edited to add google news search.

This has not been picked up on any other news wires. Take it for what it is... a rumor.

More death is imminent. It's even worse just sitting here waiting for whatever the hell it is to begin.

Way to go George, you fuckwit bastard. Lord only knows what's going to happen next.

For your analysis and perspective on this.

It's always wonderful to get a viewpoint from someone who has knowledge and understanding beyond what we can get from the pitiful U.S. Media.

...border in 1991 by any chance?

Don

Will America sit by and let them take it I don't think soo!!!

Turkey wants nothing to do with Iraq territory or oil wells.

What they want is for the Kurds to stop trying to annex parts of Turkey for their own country, and to stop using terrorist acts in order to get their way.

What do you propose the Kurds do?

this is nothing new. Not even reported in Turkish media. American paranoia is what this is.

to not get the big head.