Student Suspended for Call to Mom in Iraq

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050506/ap_on_re_us/mom_s_call_suspension_1

COLUMBUS, Ga. - A high school student was suspended for 10 days for refusing to end a mobile phone call with his mother, a soldier serving in Iraq, school officials said.

The 10-day suspension was issued because Kevin Francois was "defiant and disorderly" and was imposed in lieu of an arrest, Spencer High School assistant principal Alfred Parham said.

The confrontation Wednesday began after the 17-year-old junior got a call at lunchtime from his mother, Sgt. 1st Class Monique Bates, who left in January for a one-year tour with the 203rd Forward Support Battalion.

Mobile phones are allowed on campus but may not be used during school hours. When a teacher told him to hang up, he refused. He said he told the teacher, "This is my mom in Iraq. I'm not about to hang up on my mom."

Good for him, I wouldn't have hung up either

Just goes to show that schools have gotten so obsessed with discipline that common sense has gone out the window. If they didn't believe it was his mother, all they had to do was ask to confirm it by speaking with her. I'm sure she cannot just call whenever she wants to. This is just plain mean and stupid on their part.

A statement was emailed to me from the superintendent, Dr. John Phillips.


MEDIA RELEASE FROM DR. JOHN A. PHILLIPS, JR.,
SUPERINTENDENT
MUSCOGEE COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT


The Muscogee County School District has over 3700 military students enrolled. We have a long and strong relationship with Ft. Benning. Spencer High School has the greatest number of military students of any of our schools. All of our counselors have received training in supporting students whose parents have been deployed, and military personnel serve as Partners in Education in over half of our schools.

When the Spencer teacher approached the young man about using a cell phone on campus, contrary to Board of Education policy which is designed to preserve instructional time and decorum in our schools, the young man did not tell the teacher he was speaking to his mother in Iraq. He indicated he would not comply with a request to turn over his cell phone and used profanity. The teacher escorted the young man to the office, where assistant principals tried to get him to calm himself and to cease the use of profanity. It was only at this point that administrators learned he was talking to his mother in Iraq.

The Guidance Department at Spencer High School has arranged for a number of students to receive calls from parents who are deployed. They would have been happy to do this for this young man. The issue here was not so much the use of the cell phone as it was the choices the young man made in handling the situation. We are empathetic to all students whose parents serve in the armed forces; we do have behavior standards which we uphold.

The school has been in touch with personnel from Ft. Benning. We are endeavoring to have the young man readmitted after a three day suspension, which was the first option for him. It was only after greater defiance and profanity that the suspension was extended. We will ask that the student and his guardian sign a behavior contract indicating that he will comply with the same standards of behavior which apply to all of our students. We will continue to be sensitive to the needs of students whose parents serve our country.


06 May 2005

Hypocrite. And we Dems are accused of being unpatriotic and hypocritical.

Thank you for your response and the additional information. It would seem that your version of events differs from that of the student's in question. Also, the news article I read stated that the phone call occurred during the student's lunchtime. My daughter is also 17, in high school, and they have a policy as well. The phone MUST be turned off in class, but between classes and at lunchtime, students are permitted to use their cell phones. I think your policy is too strict. By not allowing students to use their phones on campus at all is most likely the cause of much hardship for those military students you claim to support. A soldier in a combat zone cannot just pick up the phone and call home anytime they want. These parents serving in Iraq need to be able to get calls through at their convenience, not the schools. I urge you to try and make amends, because from where I and many others who are aware of this situation stand, the school has handled it very poorly. Discipline is not the end all and be all. Common sense and compassion must win out in this case.

If you asked your daughter to do something, and she said "Fuck you" and went off on a tirade, what would you do?

You cannot equate a child-parent conflict with this situation. His MOTHER is in a war zone. Maybe the kid is just a little bit stressed out? Or does that not enter into it? He is 17, his mom is in real danger, and he should not have been bothered about his cell phone, especially on his lunchtime. It's very heavy handed of them to take this stance.

but not you. Teachers are not, despite what you may think, mind readers. I highly doubt this kid told the teacher who was on the phone.

It's not in a classroom! When I was a freshman in high school they allowed you to go off campus and get lunch and all that, so why can't this kid talk to his mother who is off in WAR for a few minute's??? Nonsense.

to a teacher. The school has a rule saying no cell phones.

or the repsonse from the superintendent specifies this. The article says "When a teacher told him to hang up, he refused. He said he told the teacher, "This is my mom in Iraq. I'm not about to hang up on my mom."

Parham said the teen's suspension was based on his reaction to the teacher's request. He said the teen used profanity when taken to the office."

I assume you are a teacher and no, I don't think you deserve to be sworn at but we don't know how this situation took place. We don't know the manner in which the teacher actually approached the student or what the actual exchange was. The teacher and school may be trying to cover their asses. It happens. I've been lied to by school officials and as a model student in school, I was yelled at unjustly by a teacher.

And if he used profanity when he was escorted to the office, while trying to talk to his mother in Iraq, I can understand that whether it was the best approach or not.

but the article says the kid says he told, not the kid told. Those are very different constructions. Certainly there would have been witnesses and I would like to know what they say.

Kids don't get 10 days for saying one cuss word and doing nothing else. Schools would be empty if that happened.

I have taught adults, not teens, and been threatened because I was ruining somebody's 4.0 average because I wouldn't allow him an extra credit opportunity on the last day of the semester. I volunteer in my son's school. I was the PTO VP this year.

And this year, I've inadvertantly been on the wrong side of the school board dealing with district issues due to changed policy. I spent 4 months appealing to the school board to let my son stay in the school THEY gave us permission for him to attend before changing their policy retroactively. I have been blatantly lied to by school administrators and school board members who seem not to be aware that I knew what was actually going on. I have been unethically contacted in private by a school board member. And in the middle of it, the superintendent put a gag order on all teachers b/c of a different situation dealing with a student nearly beaten to death at school and a fraudulent insurance claim made by the school surrounding that situation where the school claimed he was injured during a sport. The kid spent 3 weeks in the hospital and it's currently under investigation. Schools lie sometimes.

I am not ignorant of the condition in school with students, nor am I ignorant of the fact that school administrators have been known to cover their asses before. I have witnessed it. Overall, I have great respect for educators but I don't put them above question. Unfair actions do get taken against students. I have seen it. I think you are quick to make assumptions about what happened.

The exchange between the student and teacher took place in a crowded lunch room. No teacher is going to claim that he got cussed out when dozens of witnesses can say he didn't. People can be dishonest, but not stupid. For all the teacher knew the phone was still live as well. The office exchange also likely had several witnesses. That is why I think it is highly unlikely the teacher is lying here.

Our school board "misrepresented the truth" all over the local papers. It happens.

You have been able to articulate my own viewpoint perfectly. The other poster seems to think that no way would the school officials lie, but some of us know that it does happen all the time, and yes, that blatantly. I have been treated abysmally by school personnel in the past, and I know how acutely they fear lawsuits so they do whatever is required to cover their asses. Clearly some posters here need to wake up and realize this. It could be that neither version is completely correct, and the truth lies somewhere in between. That is my opinion anyway.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Do you have a child/parent/spouse/boyrfiiend/girlfriend in Iraq? I do. My son, a Marine, is back in Iraq for his second tour. I had hoped to hear from him today, on Mother's Day. I didn't. It's been weeks.
If you don't have a very close, loved one over there, I don't think you can understand how emotional the situation can be.
And, yes, I would say "Fuck You" if someone tried to take my cell phone away from me during his call.
I had great empathy for teachers. Both my parents were teachers. My sister teaches. My in-laws taught school. And my son hopes to teach after his leaves the military.
But a call from Iraq is something I don't think you understand. You just want to hear that voice. And someone, even a teacher, is not going to get in your way.

But right back at ya. As for what was said, how the FUCK do you know what the kid said, if he told the teacher it was his mother as he claims, and what sort of profanity he used? We have one person, a kid, claiming he told the teacher it was his mother calling from Iraq, and an adult, the teacher, saying otherwise. How do you know that he/she isn't trying to cover by claiming the boy didn't say it was his mother calling? Teacher's aren't saints. I had a teacher, male, once proposition me in the classroom when I was in the seventh grade and 11 years old. Sorry, but until and unless there is solid proof things didn't happen the way the kid said they did, I will choose believe him.

which raised his suspension from 3 to 10 days. I realize that not all teachers are saints but they also aren't stupid. A teacher isn't going to make up profanity in a room full of witnesses.

I think people should go back and read the original newspaper article which appeared in the Columbus GA paper. This did not happen in front of a bunch of people. The teacher grabbed the phone out of the student's hand and cut the connection. Think about it, this kid, whose father is dead, who hears on the phone from his mom, who is in a war zone, only about once a month. I think you would be a little upset too. Again, I am a teacher and this just makes me madder and madder.

Is the full article--the orginal anywhere on the internet? I've looked but none so far include that extra bit which if true would make a BIG difference in this situation.

I cannot imagine a kid going ballistic just because a teacher told him to hang up the phone. But if after he told the teacher it was his mother calling from Iraq, and the teacher grabbed the phone and cut the connection anyway?

If this is the case--and it seems to me a logical missing piece of the puzzle--well...that poor kid.

He might never get to talk to his mother ever again -- never hear her beloved voice ever again. and to be dealt with in such a manner--no compassion--just a cruel authoritarian gesture. If this is the case--that teacher should be begging his forgiveness. it brings me to tears.

He made it very apparent that he wasn't hanging up the phone and that it was his mother and she's in Iraq.

The teacher persisted. If I were principal (which I will be one in exactly three years after my Master's degree is done), I would have given the student three days of after school and lambasted the teacher in private.

Discipline, something I am in STRONG favor of, is not the be all of the world. The teacher make a HUGE mistake and the Administration made it worse. . .they could have called the police, which is in the article as well.

Nice, huh?

You should make a fine administrator.

Jay

it. Sane and logical..something in Short Supply these days.

And I'd be proud to have you as a Principal for my kid, well, if I wasn't child-free anyway...

Seriously, good luck; you sound like you'll do fine:)

The student says he told the teacher immediately. Why would he not, it seems like a plausible excuse, don't you think. As a 30 year high school teacher, I can assure you that some teachers often lie---its all part of the game to them. I have witnessed it many times.

Either the teacher thought the kid was lying or just didn't give a crap that it was his mother calling from Iraq. I'm sure he did have some choice words for this teacher and other school officials, but no one can blame him for mouthing off if this is the way they behave towards kids they claim to fully support, i.e., children of deployed military personnel. The superintendent specifically made mention of that fact in his official statement. But I think they need to back it with actions, and if they are going to allow the kids to have cell phones on their persons at school, then they should allow them to use the phones on campus at specified, times due the number of parents deployed. That is the policy at my daughter's high school, and as far as I can tell, it works just fine. With so many parents deployed from his district, this superintendent needs to look at the policy on cell phones and perhaps loosen it up a bit.

Edited to add this link, an update on this situation. Clearly two very different versions of what happened.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/11586469.htm

I was just getting ready to ask what would happen if you broke a rule at work and then said 'fuck you' when you were corrected.

maturity and the ability to rationalize like an adult. That is why they have restrictions as minors in all aspects of their lives. As well they are dealing with peer pressure and hormonal changes. So... if you are talking to your mom for very possibly the last time in your lives, you may respond poorly when agitated by a rigid, uncompromising and quite possibly rude teacher. Many of the teachers and administrators in Georgia are under 30 years of age (25 even) and lack experience and even the maturity of some of their students. You can't assume it was 50 year old Mrs. Crabtree.

Most likely, after the situation was explained, you would get an apology and maybe even a hug. Most people, other than in today's schools, are sympathetic to their co-workers problems, especially when it has to do with a loved one over seas in combat.

The situation isn't comparable.

If you had an employer who told you you couldn't step outside during lunch hour and use your cell phone to call anybody, you probably would tell him to f**k off, at least figuratively.

I would suggest that everyone who thinks that this is an outrage e-mail or call the school district, as I have.

i see it here in northern iowa, and thought it was just a local thing.

It can't help that a 17 year old has his Mother half a world away. Where the fuck is the compassion?

Fuck You, you pedantic asshole.

Absolutism absolutely sucks.

I'm not going to pass judgment on anyone involved. The superintendent of a school with over 3700 military students enrolled has got his hands full. No solution is going to make everybody happy.

We don't know this kid's history, either. Perhaps he's been acting out ever since his mother left. The fact that he has a guardian appointed is of concern. That means he has no father around, apparently.

My anger is directed at bush for first of all deploying troops to Iraq and putting them in harm's way; second of all, for separating children from their only parent and putting the children in psychological harm's way.

Repubs pretend to be the party of family values. Yeah, sure, their family, nobody else's.

He is referring to his entire school district. I'm sure where I used to live in Dayton that they have many times that many kids of military members in school in several different school districts. What the hell does that have to do with it?

Duh! In order to be eligible to attend a public school in this day and age, a kid whose parent is absent must have a legal guardian in the local district. The kid's mother is in Iraq and his father is dead so there has to be a local guardian. I have to ask the same thong other posters have asked. Where is the compassion? Well as a school teacher, I know. Except for a very few favored kids, there is none in today's schools. Instead, students are arrested ( avery common practice) or suspended. I might add that being suspended for ten days this time of the year translates to a death sentence for many high school students, since the work cannot be made up. So, I whole years work is often lost. Then there is the little problem of a notation being placed on the student's official transcript any time a suspension is carried out. this is a very sad, deplorable situation. The school system and school should be ashamed.

of zero tolerance gone wild and out of control.

BUT... I have just had one of the worst weeks I've ever had since I began substitute teaching more than four years ago.

For the last three days, I have been with one seventh grade team. These kids have been disruptive to the point that I could not teach the lesson. During at least two classes, I had to end student participation in going over a work sheet they had just completed. We were correcting the papers for them to have a study guide.

For only the second time in my subbing career, I had to call a dean to one class due to their lack of even absolute minimum of classroom decorum.

I had kids calling me crazy and other less salubrious epithets.

In one instance a student was asking me for the meaning of the words "abiotic" and "biotic". I explained that bio means life and that "a" means means not life and went on to explain that abiotic meant never having had life as opposed to dead. Another student who was at a desk nearby then asked, with appropriate horror, "Ms. S....,
are you threatening to kill us?" I nipped that in the bud immediately, but it was the opening for a complaint that would have been a problem for me.

Another student who had given me grief for all three of the days was really ripping today. I gave her more than enough chances to change her behavior before implementing the chain of discipline: more than enough verbal warnings, moving her to a place away from the rest of the students,note in the planner, and finally when the disruptive behavior continued to escalate, a referral. Her answer to that was to ask her fellow students if she had done anything to deserve a referral. About half of the class supported her ... the half that had also been disruptive. At which point, I got another teacher to come in the room to let them know that this was not going to fly.

I suggest that any of you who have children in the public school system spend several days in your kids' school... maybe in the teacher's planning room with the door left slightly ajar so that the students don't see you and you can hear everything that goes on. And make sure that there is a substitute teacher teaching on one of those days.

You might be very surprised at what you learn from such an experience.

When I think of myself at that time, it is with some regret. It is such a difficult time of life, and putting 30 or 40 kids in a room only makes it worse. Junior High teachers have my greatest sympathy.

I am not sure what a teacher planning room is, but I just started taking an adult ed course in a local high school. I found out the county has a rule that all doors are always locked and all doors are closed during class.

That way, if they have a Columbine type incident, it will limit the shooters' access to the rest of the students in the school. Times sure have changed since I was in high school.

Add this to the irony list: I have a 1951 yearbook (Not mine, I'm not that old) where there was actually a rifle team as an extracurricular activity just like the track team.

and so do most of the teachers I know.

to keep the door open. I think different schools behave differently. I generally keep my door closed but only due to my room being a trailer.

Get your facts straight, please. This unfortunate incident took place during the student's lunch period. Though schools are generally on lock down these days, students are often allowed to go to a restricted outside area during their break. Not only was the kid not in class, he was outside the school building!

so years have two classrooms backing up to a long narrow office, which is called a teacher planning room. It is usually shared by two teachers and a door leads from both classrooms into the planning room. There are windows in the planning room that look into each classroom, but they usually have venetian blinds in them that can be closed. Leaving the door slightly ajar would insure that the parent could hear everything that goes on in a classroom.

Some teachers keep their doors locked all the time, but it is rare. I know of only one or two who do.

We do have a "traffic light" alert plan (posted in every classroom). I don't remember the exact instructions, but they go something like this: Red alert - lock doors, account for all students, pull any students in the hall near your door into your classroom. Yellow Alert - lock doors, account for students, wait for further instructions. Green alert - evacuate the building, account for all students.

Heartless.

Kudos to the student for standing up to the pigs.

to spend ONE day in my classroom. As soon as a kid cusses at you, you too may become a 'heartless bastard'. :)

good for the kid

CB

Support the Troops, NOT.

...thats EXACTLY what I was about to say!

Must be that great minds thing going again!:hi:

to his mom (who is in a war zone)?

WTF is wrong with people? Besides ignorance, that is...

the school acting like they're doing the kid and Mom a favor with a ten day suspension.

It's a charming combination, and it can win you the presidency.

cursing at the teacher and administrators. In my city, that is considered verbal assault and yes, high school students have been arrested for it.

Wow. Where I come from we call that freedom of speech and the democratic tradition. I doubt that anyone has been convicted for insulting a school official.

is not exercising freedom of speech. Yes, it IS a crime.

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-cvsweb/2005-January/000356.html

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~polcomp/gsnb.shtml

http://www.grab.com/movies/news/3587

The idea that they would call the cops and have the kid arrested for cussing out a teacher seems like real bullshit to me. Ridiculous.

I've cursed out a few teachers in my time...and they deserved it one and all. You can well imagine the surprise by many when I became a teacher.


I'd have to have the whole story to determine if the child actually did do the cursing. And I don't mean what the media claims for either side. I'll make some calls..I lived at Fort Benning a few years back.

I don't take a teacher's word for everything simply because they are teachers.Teachers can and will lie. Being both student and teacher taught me that. I've seen my fellow teachers lie. Yes, students lie too.

I still wouldn't support "arrest" for profanity. "Fighting" words are considered a crime in Georgia...but simple profanity does not constitute "fighting" words. So it really depends on the level of profanity used.

I was born and raised in Georgia. Attended school there, K-12 +4).

Maxine....This is the time to chime in on your wise advice.

Hit it Maxine!

this happened in the south...
Glad I live in New England

LeftChick, I signed your L.A. Zoo petition. Thanks for posting the link.

I almost changed it today then I got this email about Wankie...

:cry:

<snip>
Enough is enough! The tragic death of 36-year-old Wankie this past Sunday marks the twelfth zoo elephant to die in 14 months. She was euthanized after collapsing during her transport from the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago to Utah's Hogle Park Zoo -- despite efforts from activists who fought to have her moved to The Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee.

Compared with their wild counterparts, who live up to 70 years, captive elephants are lucky to make it to age 40 and suffer from ailments rarely seen in free roaming herds. It has become abundantly clear that zoos cannot provide the care that elephants need.

Activists from around the country are Fighting Back! On Tuesday, May 3, LCA president Chris DeRose handcuffed himself to the elephant exhibit at the Los Angeles Zoo in protest of the zoo's refusal to even consider closing the exhibit and sending its elephants to a sanctuary. Activists will continue to do this until zoos wise up and do the right thing for the elephants.

Join the movement! Animal rights advocates have been protesting elephants in captivity for years -- the time is now to take action! We must make it clear to zoos that we will not tolerate the unnecessary deaths and suffering any longer. Civil disobedience has long been a successful tactic in getting media attention. The media is the most effective tool to get the word out to the public -- and to elevate pressure on zoo and city officials.

Even though many of us on the left are progressive and think of all enemies as Repukes, I am not sure that the reasons for wanting this kid to hang up with his mom had anything at all to do with politics. I think it had more to do with the absolute power that school administrators demand over their respective school systems.

It is all about control, baby. The kid was defying a direct order from the school Gestapo, and that is all that is needed to bring all hell down upon him.

How do I know? I was institutionally abused by my Texas school system for being out of my seat when the bell rang one day. Nevermind my Dad had died the day before....it was all about control.

a perfectly normal response in this circumstance. Can you imagine the pressure he is under wondering if that might be his last phone call with his mother? I can't believe that a teacher couldn't empathize with this boy.

It's not like he was on the phone to one of his friends.

This kid got upset and rightfully so. If it was my mother, I would of told the same and probably more.

This was a power struggle period.

http://www.mcsdga.net/schools/high/spencer.html

Above is the school district website, with handy email addresses--I just sent an email to the principal and suggested that the ones who need to grow up are the adults at that school. After all, aren't adults the ones with the capability to analyze a given situation, and adjust to fit the circumstances?

Go on, click and send an email--you can hit the principal, or the assistant principals, including the idiotic apologist for the regime.

Oh, and irony of ironies, these assholes have a Junior ROTC program.

Let's bitch, and see what they say!!!

Here's the members. Why doesn't Alfred Parham support the troops? Does he hate America?

http://www.mcsdga.net/board/1members.html

...is not excessively inflammatory. Something like "Discipline Issue at the High School" or "Question about Teacher" should be enough to get them to read the damn mail!!!

act instead of just bitching. I just sent off the email :hi:

I figure, I am just one voice, but if many complain, you can sometimes see change. It seems to be getting harder to see any movement in this creepy era, but I can remember back in the dark days of Nixon (and well before email made it easier!) when it seemed pretty bleak, too. So, I figure I am old enough, and pissed off enough, and what are they gonna do to me? :patriot: :hi:

Hello, Dr. I am not a member or your school district. I am a high school senior in a small, rural community in upstate New York. I read a news story on Yahoo.com about a student being suspended for 10 days in your district for refusing to hang up on his mother, a soldier who has to spend one year in Iraq.

I obviously don't know all of the details, but this doesn't make one bit of sense to me. Cell phones are not allowed in my school either. However, I would like to think that any decent individual would allow that rule to be broken a little bit if a student's parent called. From a MILITARY BASE IN IRAQ.... during lunch of all times! What if that were the last time Kevin Francois talked to his mother, and he were forced to hang up? Soldiers in Iraq don't have properly armored humvees, and only now are they figuring out how to jam some of the roadside bombs.

This wasn't during a history or government class, although I'm sure any history teacher would allow a student to talk to their parent who is serving overseas, in such a historic time. Perhaps he or she would even want to talk to the parent themselves to get a different perspective on the war.

I hope very much that the whole scenario was a misunderstanding. I hope that the teacher and whoever else was responsible for disciplinary action publicly apologizes to the student and to his mother, and that the school enacts a policy that allows students to call parents serving in the military overseas. If it were my decision, I would invoke disciplinary action on the teacher.

Good luck.

Sincerely,

Good going! Well done.

here is the reply that i got

"Thanks for writing. We will consider your comments carefully. Please
see attached message.
Mary Sue Polleys"

---the attached message is a word document, which is something i find extremely irritating, even though i do have word---


"Muscogee County School Board Members are very concerned about every military family student, including this one.

My only child is an Airborne, Ranger-qualified SFC now serving in Mosul---his second tour in Iraq.

See the explanation below from the Superintendent (Dr. Phillips) and the principal of Spencer High School (Mrs. Rutledge):


Dear Board Members,

Dr. Phillips asked that I e-mail to you the explanation from Mrs. Rutledge regarding the student who was suspended yesterday at Spencer. Please see below:


Ms. Rutledge said a teacher saw the student walking up and down the hall talking on the phone. The cell phone policy says they can have cell phones but they must be turned off. The teacher asked for the phone more than once. He refused and did not reveal it was his mother. She carried him to Mr. Turner’s office. He became very belligerent and started cursing. He was suspended. Ms. Rutledge added that it was the disrespect and profanity (even in front of the guardian) that got him suspended. She said he will be allowed to come back for finals for any classes he may have a chance in passing.

Ms. Rutledge said there are other students in her school with parents overseas. Some have made arrangements for calls through the guidance office—students allowed to leave class for the call, etc.


You will note the major difference in the student’s story and the school’s story is whether or not he told the teacher it was his mother calling from Iraq. (not my emphasis)

At any rate, we are VERY sorry that this incident escalated. It might have simply been a misunderstanding between the teacher and student originally. We will rectify this situation and clarify procedures involving cell phones and deployed parents. This student will be back in school Monday.

Our policy allows cell phones at school so that students and parents can communicate about after-school activities and plans. Having phones on during the school day, of course, would be disruptive. This is the first year that phones have been allowed at all, and many districts still do not allow them.

Thank you for writing. I appreciate your position.


Mary Sue Polleys, Chair
Muscogee County School Board"

"Ms. Rutledge said a teacher saw the student walking up and down the hall talking on the phone. The cell phone policy says they can have cell phones but they must be turned off. The teacher asked for the phone more than once. He refused and did not reveal it was his mother. She carried him to Mr. Turner’s office. He became very belligerent and started cursing."

Note it wasn't "the teacher confronted the student about his using the cellphone" --

No, the teacher's first responses was to attempt to take the phone away, thus placing the student on a defensive. Coupled with the stress and importance of speaking with his mom in Iraq, I completely understand his response of "fuck you" or whatever belligerent choice words he used.

I was just going to look for a site to give 'em hell. I will also, in my letter mention that I will contact other news organizations to shed light on their policies. They should be ashamed. One size does NOT fit all, and they should be ashamed that they cannot, as educators, model common sense and compassion. Exactly what have they taught this child?

That soldiers can't pick and choose when they can call home--it is usually a now or never proposition.
Don't they teach time zone differences in Georgia?
These people should be shot and hung from the highest tree.
They should be ordered to take their "Support the troops" magnets off their SUV's. :sarcasm:

:wtf:

Maybe we can enlist the Freeps help in this as well. They love getting people shit-canned

Jay

that makes me want to hit large people in the face. I wouldn't hang on my mom. I don't think anyone COULD hang up on thier mom if she was in Iraq. (Well, I know one person who hung up on her dad. He left her when she was a baby so, not unexpected.)

And in the hierarchy of elders... teachers do not rank above parents when parents are around.

Coupled with the earlier story of miltary dependents in CA lining up at the foodbank, I'm thinking it's time for a Top Ten "Supporting The Troops Edition".

We need to bombard these fuckers so that this kid doesn't get the suspension, or at least it's not put on his school record for later colleges to look at.

bureaucratic administrator gone wild...... in his little mind, the student was breaking the rule and he (the admin) cannot conceive of extenuating circumstances that would lead to such a thing.
The student, no doubt enraged at the idiocy of this action, (kids have a much sharper sense of fair/unfair than adults) reacted as any of us would, given the situation.
Why couldn't the teacher or principal have said,"your Mom who is in Iraq? Step into my office and talk as long as you like" Guess what the student would have said to his friends had that happened? Geezzeee :(

Again citing my experience as a high school teacher, I can assure you that the teacher, school, and school system would have gained a friend for life. A little compassion goes a long way in making things run smoother....

:eyes:

4340 Victory Drive
Columbus, GA 31903

Phone: 706-685-7652
Fax: 706-685-7708

Enrollment: 1086
Pupil/Teacher Ratio: 18 to 1

School Facilities
Number of Classrooms: 60
Number of Computers: 194

School Website http://www.mcsdga.net/schools/high/spencer.html

Note one of their partners in education

Partners in Education

* Swift Denim
* The 29th Infantry Regiment

:applause:

and taint the MSN's rose-colored view of what's going on over there....

Dr. John A. Phillips, Jr. Superintendent

649-0685
jphillips@mcsdga.net

I left a msg for him. When I called the school it rang and rang until someone picked it up and hung right up. These are not very sophisticated folk.

This is what people expect should happen to you if you are disobedient in modern American (Republican) society. I was explaining to a friend the other night why marijuana is gone after so much in lieu of hard drugs. Because disobedience is disrespect, and disrespect is intolerable to Republicans.

foolish consistency. Little minds. But little minds are running the nation now -- no regard for the personal.

Does this sound odd? Sort of lockstep, like Mao?
And you know... "they" are calling this The Culture War, too.

I can just see their ILLOGICAL argument: if we let one kid take a phone call, what will happen? They'll all take phone calls.

Slippery slope is a logical fallacy that they -- the Right and most Authority -- love to use.

I soooo hope this becomes a big deal and this kid becomes a hero for talking back.

After all, in ten years... who cares? That's the way Authority needs to look at events like this. Instead... one step from arrest. Total overkill. Duh.

I got throgh to the school office and the man who answered is taking the wrong tact. The school is taking the attitude of knowing what they are doing and they aren't doing anything wrong. The man said he knew what this kid's life was like by virtue of serving a military base near by.

Not interested in having a heart.

to give the information to their press office and one of Chambliss aides.

Tie those in power to the "Zero tolerance" crap that goes on and hang it on the Republican's head.

It's what the Repukes did to Democrats with teh "PC" crap.

But this was beyond the pale. Here's the letter I sent to Parham, his principal, and the school board, Subject "Student Discipline Issue:

To: Muscogee County School District:

The action of your Spencer High School employee Alfred Parham in suspending the student on the phone with his mother in Iraq is the most despicable act of bullying I've heard of in years. For the lunchroom teacher to insist that the student hang up under those circumstances shows a level of insensitivity and bad judgment that disqualifies the individual to be in responsible charge of students.

Mr. Parham's assertion that because the student was "defiant and disorderly," (under the incredible provocation the student was placed) and so could either be arrested or suspended proves that Mr. Parham lacks the judgment to be an educator. Any reasonable person would -- at a minimum -- call him a horse's ass for such a grossly insensitive act.

Mr. Parham is a bully and a fool. What's more, he's made you and your entire school district look like heartless bumpkins. For the good of your students and your schools, I hope Mr. Parham will shortly be looking for another line of work for which he is more suited.

Here's the reply I just got from the school district (hope this isn't too long -- I'm fairly sure it's not copyrighted):

MEDIA RELEASE FROM DR. JOHN A. PHILLIPS, JR.,
SUPERINTENDENT
MUSCOGEE COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT


The Muscogee County School District has over 3700 military students enrolled. We have a long and strong relationship with Ft. Benning. Spencer High School has the greatest number of military students of any of our schools. All of our counselors have received training in supporting students whose parents have been deployed, and military personnel serve as Partners in Education in over half of our schools.

When the Spencer teacher approached the young man about using a cell phone on campus, contrary to Board of Education policy which is designed to preserve instructional time and decorum in our schools, the young man did not tell the teacher he was speaking to his mother in Iraq. He indicated he would not comply with a request to turn over his cell phone and used profanity. The teacher escorted the young man to the office, where assistant principals tried to get him to calm himself and to cease the use of profanity. It was only at this point that administrators learned he was talking to his mother in Iraq.

The Guidance Department at Spencer High School has arranged for a number of students to receive calls from parents who are deployed. They would have been happy to do this for this young man. The issue here was not so much the use of the cell phone as it was the choices the young man made in handling the situation. We are empathetic to all students whose parents serve in the armed forces; we do have behavior standards which we uphold.

The school has been in touch with personnel from Ft. Benning. We are endeavoring to have the young man readmitted after a three day suspension, which was the first option for him. It was only after greater defiance and profanity that the suspension was extended. We will ask that the student and his guardian sign a behavior contract indicating that he will comply with the same standards of behavior which apply to all of our students. We will continue to be sensitive to the needs of students whose parents serve our country.

I get the impression that the boy was asked (threatened) to hang up. I don't think the teacher even ASKED who he was talking too. Sometimes overseas calls can be hard to hear and connections can be cut or lost in a moments notice. I hate to be interrupted in a call and I can understand the kids desire to hear every word his Mom was saying SANS interruption.
While there are standards of behaviour, this child is under stress and people under stress curse, yell, and sometimes hit. I think in light of the circumstances, allowing the ctudent time to cool off, showing compassion and explaining what to do and give a warning would have been far more effective.

He knows he FU and is looking for a way out.

Sometimes rules of procedure need to be set aside in favor of good old fashioned American common sense.

Congratulations on discipline in your school. After all, what right doew Kevin Francois have to talk to his mother, who just happens to be in that meatgrinder that is called Iraq. And the kid could not have been under stress, considering that it is not possible that his mother would be maimed or killed while there.

No, children should obey immediately, with a heartfelt "Sig Heil" to those issueing the orders. But we know that this abominable situation is not about discipline, it's about control, and the refusal of a person to obey an order he believed was heartless and wrong. This must not be allowed. Next, the kid who disobeys will be shipped to a re-education camp and come out a true member of the indoctrinated.

I had thought that we got rid of the nazis in 1945, but apparently they are now in control of the schools.

Keep up the good work, herr oberfuerer.

Very witty and original.

the rules (because then everyone would want to be an exception) but come on, his mom is fighting a war. If that's the only time she could call, so be it. Let the kid talk to his mom and just let it go.

I'd have used profanity too if I'd have been that kid. Now that suspension is on his permanent record and could affect his chances of getting into college. Morons.

This reads as if schools conspire with other powerful groups to destroy families.

Curiously, if you're the teacher of a tough kid who routinely beats up a particular gay student who in turn doesn't fight back: Oh, what to do? What to do?

Now the article said he was out of control, but doesn't say what that means. But it was enough that they pondered having him arrested. I'm sorry, right now I side with the school.

Would it of been ok for him to take the call during class?

Lets see, he got a call. Did he ask a teacher if it would be okay to talk to his mother? No. Bet a teacher would have been okay with it, I would have had the kid go to the office to talk on the phone.

But the funniest thing about the responses here is that this story will end up on Rush and every FOX show with the "see how our liberally dominated education system treats the children of our war heros."

even though the schools response contradicts it. If I was the student, there would have been more then obscenities used. If I was his parent there would be absolute hell to pay upon my return.

"But the funniest thing about the responses here is that this story will end up on Rush and every FOX show with the "see how our liberally dominated education system treats the children of our war heros."

You are right-on with that point though, I'm already hearing it. You can also bet they won't quote any of the posts on this thread like they did the Laura Ingraham thread though.

Jay

truly unbelievable reaction here on this story. Seems that quite a few people around here are purely anti-establishment for the sake of being anti-establishment.

I would be curious to know A) How many of these people work as teachers, and B) How they would have handled the situation.

If the school is being honest and not just covering their butts, I'm siding with them. I realize the kid is under tremendous stress but why couldn't he simply tell the teacher immediately that he was speaking to his mom in Iraq. Why, instead, just go off on people and use obscenities?

Apparently, I'm in the minority here but if the school's version is correct, then I agree with them. The fact that this kid's mom is in Iraq is not a free pass to act any way he likes.

understanding with him..so yeah..I'd counsel him rather than suspend him

I know if it was me, I would have made an about face once the student explained who he was talking to. I imagine the teachers stance on the issue caused the student to react in an irrational way, but if you were put in his situation, what would you do? I think this is typical of what has been going on in this country since W corrupted it. At least the teacher didn't tazzer the kid or shoot him. That will be next. What a country we are now living in. Disgraceful. The guy needs to be fired, like a previous poster said, this job just ain't right for him.

I am torn on this. If the school system is telling the story correctly, (and there would be plenty of witnesses) then it looks like they handled it well, actually. I don't care what the kid was doing, if his reponse to 'no calls in school' was obscenities, then he needs to take some time off. You cannot curse teachers out. Hell, you cannot curse out anyone. I am 100% certain that a heavily military school would have made allowances for him talking to his mother, if they'd known who he was talking to. in fact they did, once they learned who was on the other end. But they have to enforce the rules against obscentity and insubordination, sorry.

They are human and make mistakes in judgment. What's with this strict obedience stuff? I've known some teachers that I could not talk to about their lawn! One got nearly hysterical because of a neighbors' lawn. Just an example. I have a super sister-in-law that was a teacher for a jillion years and now principal with lots of common sense. Takes all kinds. It was the kids MOM. I feel so sad for this kid whether an A or D student.

It was during lunchtime.

Again, get your facts straight. This happened during the student's lunch break. And for your information, having a student arrested is now one of many schools most favored disciplinary tools. They love to lead a student through the halls in handcuffs, believing this is an excellent example to other students. I would not be surprised if administrators did not threaten the kid with arrest, making a bad situation worse.

"Fuck you, I'm on the phone" wouldn't have cut it for me, either. The situation may have been extraordinary, but fifteen seconds of common courtesy from the kid would have solved it.

And we wouldn't be, as you note, fanning a FAUX fire. :eyes:

In fact, this is exactly the kind of incident that leads to lowered opinions of the education system as a whole instead of particular individuals within it.

ADMINISTRATORS make decisions about suspending kids. They don't belong to the teachers union.

and the voters don't care too much about separating administrators from teachers when it comes time to approve the next batch of school-funding bonds or tax increases. The public schools are perceived as a single opaque entity, not a diverse assortment of people striving to put forth their best individual efforts under what are often stressful, trying conditions.

Every time a rule like this is enforced with harsh penalties, the school system becomes a little more distant from the people with the greatest interest in supporting it, namely the parents; the people who it hurts most are inevitably the students and teachers.

Thanks for the links. Makes me feel better to do something, however small.

aparham@mcsdga.net - The Alfred Parham quoted in the article, Assistant Principal

orutledge@mcsdga.net - Olivia T. Rutledge, Principal.

wturner@mcsdga.net _ Wendall Turner, the other Assistant Principal.

You know what to do.

Anyways what are we supposed to do? I see no problem with what they did, they could just relax on the cell phone policy at lunch but other than that, if a kid uses profanity, he should be punished.

It is important to note that the phone call was FROM his mother not to. He did not place the phone call. I think I might be a bit more than "defiant and disorderly" if a high school teacher told me stop talking to my mother who was halfway around the world in a war zone. He's my hero and perfect timing since Mother's day is around the corner.

the mindset of the educators in the Columbus area. The city of Columbus, GA supports a very large military population, (Ft. Benning - The US Army Infantry School and the US Army Airborne School). Many members of Ft. Benning's units are or have already been deployed to Iraq so this seventeen year old's experiences were not unique to the faculty of his school. The young man himself acknowledges that he should have handled the situation better than he did and does seem quite contrite over the controversy that has erupted over this event. Sorry, but I too must come to the defense of the school officials who rightly felt the need to discipline this fellow after barraging them with an obscenity laced tirade. I am quite certain that if the young man would have simply informed the teacher who told him to turn off his phone, that he was speaking to his mother in Iraq, things would have turned out quite differently. That he chose a different course of action is something HE should have to live with, not the school officials. Before the flaming starts, I often was on the other end of that phone, calling home to my wife and children while on long deployments and clearly understood when there was appropriate times and less than appropriate times to call. I'm not saying to blame the mother now for calling when she knew he'd be at school, it's just that I'm sure she would have understood had her son been told to limit the time he spoke with her. Another thing about military life........phone calls and E-Mails.....the things that keep you sane!

Sorry for the lecture.......time's up.

He "barraging them with an obscenity laced tirade" or are you just taking the school word for that.

to think that a 17-year old boy is going to act in a rational manner when his only parent (his father passed away) calls him from a war-zone thousands of miles away. Then add to that a teacher who tries to take the phone away? ...gasoline on a bonfire. If the original story pans out, the teacher and district deserve everything (within reason)they have coming.

Jay

It is amazing the kid can even function enough to go to school considering his circumstances. OMG. Where is the compassion?

I was totally thinking the way you were.. but it's hard to be heard through all the indignant shouting here sometimes.

There was no excuse for this kid to go ballistic on his teacher, and let out a profanity-laced tirade. Kids at schools out here are not allowed to have their phones on during school hours. Period.

If the student politely said to the teacher, "This is my mom in Iraq and I'm allowed to talk to her," the school is out of line. If he said something to the effect of, "Fuck no!" when told to hang up, which is what I probably would have said, then the school did have the right to at least remove him from the lunch room.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

and cussed out a teacher when he was corrected. The school said they were willing to work out a way for his mom to call him at school but he refused to work with them. So should he be able to cuss out a teacher just because his mom is halfway around the world fighting in the chimp's stupid war?

IMO, having his mom in Iraq is the real tragedy here.

What do you expect them to say? "Oh ya, we were being dick-heads"?

Jay

the school was lying?

I've had enough dealing with school administrators in LAUSD over several issues to know that they will say WHATEVER THEY THINK WILL MAKE THEM LOOK BEST.

They lie about crime statistics in the schools, they lie about school policies, they lie about what other parents have said.

In my experience, I know it it safe to assume anything coming from a school administrator is a lie. I know that if I want to know the truth about anything going on in a school, I need to check records, check with other parents, or just use common sense.

Doesn't happen where I work.

Parents at my school have caught the school district lying about teachers who have been disciplined, about test score availability (they told us the scores weren't in yet because they were lower than expected and didn't want us questioning our children's scores), about district policy, about crimes committed at school.

THe kid's story makes more sense. Some lunch aide told him to hang up the phone, and he said "No, it's my Mome in Iraq." The lunch aide tried to snatch the phone out of his hand, and the kid--who remember, may at any time BE TALKING TO HIS MOTHER FOR THE LAST TIME--got angry and swore at her.

That doesn't look so good, so let's just leave out the part about him telling her/him he was talking on the phone to his mother in Iraq.

What the heck is so important about keeping kids from talking on the phone during their own lunch hour anyway? Would you work at a place that told you you weren't allowed to talk on your cell phone outside the office during lunch break? It's all about control, and treating all minors as if they were delinquents.

for every bad thing teachers and schools have done to you? I feel badly that you don't trust them, but it certainly isn't my fault. I have open and trusting relationships with parents and I think that is true of most teachers and schools. You have obviously had very different experiences.

One thing you are forgetting here when you feel so certain that the school is fabricating these events is that this happened in a busy lunch room. Surely there were dozens of witnesses. Don't you find it peculiar that NONE have come forward to coroborate your version of events? If a teacher or other adult did try to snatch the cell phone away and if the kid had indeed stated IN THE LUNCHROOM that he was talking to his mom in Iraq, (instead of waiting until he was in the office, as the school claims) then surely plenty of other kids would have witnessed this. With all the media attention this incident has received, I find it rather odd that no one - including the kid - has stated that anything different happened other than what the school has reported.

I'm just going with the first story as quoted in the main post of this thread. When it was fresh in the minds of those who participated. Not some half-ass explanation that the school had all day to come up with.

Jay

the phone.

and the phone would be confiscated until a parent or guardian comes to school to get it back. And yes, one of our parents tried to challenge that policy in court - and lost.

So, when does the Mom in Iraq get to come home and get the phone back for her son?

Guess he'll have to wait a year--unless, of course, her time is extended. 2 years? Maybe 4? Oh, well. Just let them keep it.

If your school did what this school did, I would be sending them outraged e-mails as well.

So he wouldn't have to wait for Mom to come home.

And BTW, the majority of cell phones we confiscate from kids are stolen.

how embarassing for the school

Public school administrators are not the brightest bulbs in the batch.

refused to let this kid talk on the phone after he merely said "This is my mother in Iraq, I am not about to hang up on her". I further wonder how many people think a 10 day suspension ensued from just one use of profanity. I have worked in quite a few schools and I can tell you that just doesn't happen. I find it exceedingly hard to believe that this kid actually told the teacher that the call was from Iraq with no profanity being used. I literally can't imagine a teacher not letting the kid complete the call in that case. Yet, I can easily imagine that the kid said Fuck you with no explanation when asked to hang up the phone.

I have to say that many people here need to walk the halls of a school or better yet sign up as a substitute teacher at a school. I think your eyes would be widely opened.

Are you a sub?

and am a regular teacher now. I think many people our age think of what school was like then and have no earthly idea what it is like now. Some eyes would be opened.

would spend just ONE day in a high school lunchroom. THAT would open their eyes.

It is also pretty disheartening to see that so many are quick to jump up and accuse the school of lying. They need to stop and think for just a second. What do most kids do when they get in trouble?
A. Admit they were wrong and apologize
B. Say "I didn't do it" or "It wasn't my fault"
C. Say "It was an accident"
D. Become belligerent

hint: it's not A

But teachers lie, ALL THE TIME. When it come to covering your ass to save face or your job, teachers are flawed humans like everyone else. You're a teacher; you automatically take the teacher's side. Fine. But don't insult anybody's intelligence that all teachers are Mr. Rogers; they aren't. I'm sure a number of people here can give you horror stories about teachers on an ego/power trip; I have more than a few myself.

You believe what you what you want to believe; I'll believe what I know.

And no, I don't automatically take the teacher's side. But in this case, I do understand why this kid was suspended.

I work as a Systems Admin at a middle school and have seen how teachers and counselors handle these types of situations. I would be inclined to believe it went down just as the school has described.

I'm sorry that the kid's mom is stuck in the 'raq, but that doesn't entitle him to act in the manner that is presented in the article.

At my daughter's school, using the cell phone results in simply having the phone taken a way until later in the day when the Principal can chat with the kid. Also, teachers have been known to ask for the phone and hang up regardless of who's on the line. That happened the other day.. a girl was on the phone to her mom, and the teacher asked for the phone and simply hung it up. They aren't allowed to be used in school. Period. I had a talk with the principal once, while chaperoning a dance. She said that she and the teachers HATE the rule that the kids could have the phones in school, because they are a distraction and a major problem... even tho they're told they cannot use them, they do anyway. Also, the idea that the kids can call for help if there is a shooting, is now being questioned because so many kids are calling police and parents during incidents, that the 911 lines are jammed, and parents are showing up on the scene of a potentially dangerous operation.

I have no doubt there was much more to the story. You do NOT get a 10 day suspension for refusing to hang up your phone. People on DU sometimes get so incensed without knowing the facts. Which.. we probably will never know. Even smoking doesn't get you 10 days suspension.

Jeez--you are rigid son of a gun! You would deny a student the chance to speak to his mother who in serving her country in Iraq because students are not allowed to speak on cell phones? Remember, the mother called the student from the other side of the world. I am a school teacher, and it is very difficult to exist with todays "zero tolerance rules" which allow these types of things to happen. And worse, "zero tolerance" only applies to some students. Also, I get a kick out of your story about teachers being so upset that students can have cell phones. From my experience, I can assure you that the vast majority of teachers have them in their pockets or purses, and use them at every opportunity. By the way, you are correct--students will not get a ten day suspension for smoking at school. Usually, if they are the right student, they will be expelled if caught. It is all part of zero tolerance!

More socially acceptable at DU than prejudice aganist gays or women or blacks, I suppose?
:eyes:

Idle curiousity. If at your place of work you got cussed out what would you do?

...that were thousands of miles away, that I only got to talk to a few times a month at most. Especially not during my lunch hour.

knew this from looking at the kid. If some kid cussed me out I would have sent him to the office too. I would have let him finish his call but there will be snow on the hill tops of Hell before some kid can cuss me out in a room full of people and not get sent to the office.

1) The student told the teacher that he was talking to his mom. the teacher ignored him and grabbed the phone out of his hand.
2) The student did not curse the teacher. He only began using profanity after he was taken to the office.

The article states that the kid SAID he told the teacher that it was his mother it also says the teacher SAID the kid used profanity. That is he said, he said. And no where in that article does it say THE PHONE WAS TAKEN. Either put up or apologize.

and of course the psychic teacher knew this from looking at the kid.
"Francois said he told the teacher, 'This is my mom in Iraq. I'm not about to hang up on my mom.'"

If some kid cussed me out I would have sent him to the office too.
Francois did no such thing. He used profanity only when unjustly forced to go to the assistant principal's office to be interrogated:
"'Kevin got defiant and disorderly with Mr. Turner and another assistant principal,' Parham said Thursday. 'He got defiant with me. He refused to leave Mr. Turner's office. When a kid becomes out of control like that they can either be arrested or suspended for 10 days. Now being that his mother is in Iraq, we're not trying to cause her any undue hardship; he was suspended for 10 days.'"

"…in a room full of people…"
"The incident happened when Francois received a call from his mother at 12:30 p.m., which he said was his lunch break. Francois said he went outside the school building to get a better reception when his mother called. A teacher who saw Francois on his phone told him to get off the phone. But he didn't."

"And no where in that article does it say THE PHONE WAS TAKEN. Either put up or apologize."
"Francois said the teacher tried to take the phone, causing it to hang up.
The student said he then went with the teacher to the school's office where he surrendered his phone."

Source: Soenaries, Angelique. "Student suspended over call from mom serving in Iraq." Knight-Ridder. May 6, 2005.

Note even your quote has it as Kevin said he told the teacher. Not Kevin told the teacher. Those are redically different things.

As to the second, the quote about removal of the cell phone isn't in the original article which I just reread. So I want a link to the article you quoted from, which again, isn't the original article.

As to the second, the quote about removal of the cell phone isn't in the original article which I just reread. So I want a link to the article you quoted from, which again, isn't the original article.
Note my post, unedited, includes a link at the bottom to my source.

That looked like a sig line and I generally ignore those.

I have done in a while. That said, I will grant he looks better in this article, than in other ones. Letting him finish the call would be the right thing to do, but he still used profanity on at least two occassions. His suspension has been reduced to 3 days according to the Superintendent and I think that is legit.

If YOU cussed at your boss, what would happen?

tried to physically take a cell phone out of my hand while I was talking to my only parent who's stationed in Iraq, I'd probably floor him. And chances are that if there were people around to see what was happening, they'd probably applaud.

Teacher's ego's do not trump a high-school kid talking to his only parent in a war/occupation zone while on lunchbreak. Period.

for a quote in that article which states that cell phone was removed.

"And no where in that article does it say THE PHONE WAS TAKEN. Either put up or apologize."
"Francois said the teacher tried to take the phone, causing it to hang up.
The student said he then went with the teacher to the school's office where he surrendered his phone."

Source: Soenaries, Angelique. "Student suspended over call from mom serving in Iraq." Knight-Ridder. May 6, 2005. (quoted from above)

You know, I'm a brat - Father was in the Navy from before I was born until I was nearly 16; he's now doing fill-in duty as an IRR in Mesa, AZ at the National Guard Armory because the unit regulars are gone and he's too old and in too ill of health to be deployed, but can shuffle papers. There were a lot of days growing up where we picked up the phone only long enough to get rid of whoever was on the other end to make sure we didn't miss him calling, and didn't go anywhere for fear of missing him. (Call waiting was the first feature we ever got on the phone.) We also obsessed over the mail in those pre-cell phone days. Father went to Grenada, to Panama, and several other less-than-garden spots, thanks to the DoD.

I had two parents, and that was HELL. I can't imagine what it's like to have a single parent left who is in a war zone. Whatever the boy's reaction to having his mother's voice taken away from him and turned off, it was within his rights, especially considering that lunch is the student's time, not the teacher's time. Just as my boss cannot fire me for what I do on my lunch break, be it nookie with my husband or a fruit cup and yogurt or 45 minutes of yoga, she can't fire me for being on my personal phone during that time.

That said, I have worked with teenagers, often in worse situations than any public school or sub teacher deals with. Juvenile justice and mental health. Honestly, swearing at me doesn't phaze me. I've been called a c***, a c***s*****, a b****, a h*, a w****, and words I had to go ask what that meant. They're just words. They're just anger. They're gone in an instant, hot air on the wind.

I've had kids suspended or expelled for language come across my desk a couple years after, in trouble because they ended up having to go to the alternative school, breaking down the ties they had built and putting them in a vulnerable situation where gangs, drugs, violence and apathy were viable in ways they weren't in the regular schools. It doesn't happen to every kid, but it happens often enough to know that zero tolerance hurts more kids than it helps. There's a chain of causality that can be traced back, and maybe it was a cussing out, maybe it was a bullying that ended up with the bullied fighting back, and the admins believing the football QB over the freaky punk, maybe it was a phone or a pager or a black trench coat that caused the initial suspension, the initial incident that made the kids unwilling to deal with school because the deck was never going to be honest. Some kids bounce back from unfair enforcement of policies. Some don't, and that's why Zero Tolerance doesn't work, because you never know which kids it's going to hurt more than it helps.

I worked with them at the end, but if I could say one thing to teachers and have them hear it is this: Kids aren't as resilient, as rebellious, as irresponsible, as disrespectful and as contemptuous as you think they are. It's usually a facade to cover deep insecurity and fear. You can hurt them with a cross word or a contemptuous look, and destroy them with a CYA decision-making process.

If teachers (and parents) would hear that, I'd have had a smaller case load, and would not be in obsessive-compulsive research now. I'd still be in juvenile justice mental health where I'm needed.

and I will admit that I hadn't read that other article, but if I let students cuss me out then I will have no authority whatsoever. Alternative school is a very different thing. Yes, you have worse students, but you also have way fewer of them (12 at most vs up to 30) and you have another adult in the room. Those are huge advantages. I am also assuming that you have call buttons and the like which I also don't have.

Suppose this had been the VietNam era, how would the mother have called her son? Why didn't she use whatever method that would be? Did she not know about the rule? Did she not care about the rule? For ages before cell phones people have gotten important calls in a timely manner and the same thing could have happened here, and according to even the kid friendly one, has happened at that school in the past.

It also should be noted the child wasn't suspeneded under zero tolerance. He was suspended for cursing and then refused to stop adding to his suspension. His suspension has been reduced to the three days he would have gotten had he shut his mouth after the original cursing.

Finally, one of the jobs we have is to prepare kids for the adult world. In just one year that kid will be a full adult and expected to behave like one. If at age 19 he curses out his boss due to not liking some rule he will be fired or worse. It does him no good at all to let him curse people out now and then in a year he gets fired for it.

Edit/spelling

Suppose this had been the VietNam era, how would the mother have called her son? First, the mother would not have called her son, she would not have been over there, because her job is classified as combat support, and women were only allowed in admin and nursing fields during that war. Second, it was almost impossible to call from Vietnam. You wrote letters, and your "bennie" was that you put "Free" in the right hand corner of the envelope, saving you the postage.

Did she not know about the rule? Did she not care about the rule? Odds are good that this woman is working a fourteen hour day, six or seven days a week. In a FORWARD OPERATING AREA. Barracks are tents, prefabs, conex boxes, or makeshift wooden huts. There are no real facilities, they are slapped up in a hurry--the best construction is the perimeter. You have to figure that this woman and her battle buddies have to stand IN LINE to clean their clothes, stand in line to have a shower, stand in line to take a crap, stand in line to use the phone, stand in line for chow...are you starting to understand the dimensions of her difficulty? Plus, she is dealing with a 14 hour time difference. For all we know she might have waited in that line for hours. We don't know, it is unfair to judge her, since she is one of the poor bastards doing the heavy lifting over there.

Oh, and Mom, on an E-whatever salary, less than you make as an assistant manager at Mickey D's, is paying a BUCK A MINUTE for that call.

I'm not saying the kid was right for letting loose. What I am saying is that the school administration showed ZERO compassion along with their ZERO TOLERANCE. And ZERO judgment, to boot. What could have been handled with a formal apology by the student, and guidelines for future calls, was blown up into a story that highlights how little these teachers care about a kid who is living in a custodial environment with five other children, at a tough age, and who has never before been separated from his mother.

I would not be surprised at all if this comes down to a teacher who is forced to do lunchroom patrol and resents it, and takes it out on the kid--LUNCHROOM ENFORCEMENT MODE. If the kid had been in homeroom or a class where the teacher knew his situation, he may well have gotten permission to take the call, and even hang out the window to get a clear signal on his phone, and talk to mom to his heart's content. I'd do that for the child of a single parent in a designated combat zone. It's the human thing to do for a kid who gets to talk to his only parent once a month.

You are correct in that no women would have been allowed to serve in any type of combat or forward zone. But also, there were no mothers in the armed forces at that time. It hasn't been all that long since any active duty woman who became pregnant was immediately discharged. So yeah, dcs is correct, his mother wouldn't have called him on a cell phone during the Vietnam era because no mother would have been permitted to serve. It's a ridiculous comparison, but typical for this poster.

Skilled nurses and MDs could get a waiver if they gave up custody! Hand over yer kid to gramma, and if you are a thoracic surgeon, we'll letcha serve....(gee, thanks....!).

and dying in VietNam. It took me one, count it one, google search to find this page. Are they all uninformed liars too? Is it typical for them too?

http://www.illyria.com/vnwnurse.html

Among other things at this site is one of the several WOMEN'S names that are on the VietNam wall.

I will admit to finding no evidence that any of them had children, which would be relevent to this discussion. But to call me ignorant for stating that WOMEN SERVED IN VIETNAM, is both ignorant and against the rules.

No one, including me, said that no women served in Vietnam. They served in very limited capacities, usually nurses or secretaries. No women at that time were driving supply trucks or performing any other military job that might put them into a forward or combat zone. It would seem that you don't tend to read very carefully or completely, do you? You read things that don't exist.

This thread has gotten long, so I doubt anyone will read this, but I will post the info anyway. I realize this is just a peripheral issue related to this boy's suspension, but since poster DSC has made rather a big deal about whether mothers were permitted to serve in the military during the Vietnam era, I thought I would find a site that would provide the info. The above-mentioned poster has disputed my contention that no woman who was a mother could join, and pregnant women were automatically discharged. For anyone who is interested and willing to wade through this thread and find my post, here ya go.

http://www.wrei.org/projects/wiu/wim/wim_chron01.pdf

say 'Fuck you' to a teacher or anyone regardless of WHO is on the other end of the phone. If I did this at work, I would most likely lose my job.

Especially SOuthern schools, that, yes, I can believe that some administrator looked up a list in a book that said "any use of profanity around a teacher will not be tolerated. Student will be arrested or suspended for 10 days" and went ahead and did it.

Zero Tolerance is all about not taking ANY extenuating circumstances into account.

I wouldn't want to walk the halls of some of these zero tolerance schools--or doesn't anybody remember the South Carolina high school where security videos caught the SWAT teams terrorizing students, waving assault rifles in their faces, intimidating them with police dogs--all because the moron principal had heard rumors that someone had some pot in the lockers (none, by the way, was found).

I defy you to find one school anywhere where profanity around a teacher gets a student 10 days.

and cursing in a teacher's presence. So my challenge still stands. I wan't one school where cursing in a teacher's presence gets a student a 10 day suspension.

and that's being generous.

Look, teachers aren't infallible; you should know that better than anyone. If it's more important to a teacher's ego to install blind disipline than show reason, then the teacher needs to leave the profession, IMO. It's not about the teachers teachin anymore, it's about the teacher's ego.

The first would be me saying Mother fuck it is cold outside tonight.

The second would be me saying You are a mother fucker.

I highly doubt that you would be as offended by the first as by the second.

Profanity is profanity, no matter who it's directed to.

Right?

I have worked in a lot of schools and most of them have had zero tolerance policies with regards to weapons, and not one treated the first situation the same as the second. Students generally only got suspended in the first senario if they had repeatedly done that behavior or had done another bad behavior first. Students generally do get suspended in the second senario (though not always).

On edit I have never had a write up that didn't involve violence result in a 10 day suspension. Not one time. The closest thing was an 18 year old freshman who insulted me in class, the principal did get rid of her but only due to her being an 18 year old freshman. Had that not been the case she would have gotten a three day suspension.

that cursing a teacher in an office away from students doesn't deserve a 10 day suspension, since there was no violence involved?

He cursed in the office and had a three day suspension and then continued to curse. If that is accurate, then he might well have deserved it. My source is the letter quoted in several posts here from the Superintendent. Repeatedly doing something is worse than doing it once.

But it's pointless to argue this anymore.

says that is what happened. They don't mention three days but do mention that he continued to curse in the office.

That's what zero tolerance is all about.

It doesn't matter if you said "F**K no" to a lunch aid who was trying to hang up on your mother in Iraq or you unleashed a torrent of obscene threats to the entire staff--you get the same sentence.

I find it exceedingly EASY to believe that there are many teachers or aides out there who can't think beyond what the zero tolerance rule book tells them.

Kid shouldn't have been on the phone during school.

it amazes me that we were able to function as a society prior to the invention of cellular technology.

Many students are now parents too. I can see a legitimate reason for a student to need a cell phone immediately after school and thus have it with them at school. But they should be turned off.

cell phones have only been prevalent for the last 4 or 5 years, and as I stated, we seemed to be able to function as a society prior to that.

I am still a hold out about not having a cell phone but when I travel this summer I am likely to get one. It used to be just about anywhere had a payphone for an emergency, now I could travel for miles without one. The newness of my car is the only reason I am thinking I will do without, but even with that I might get a pre paid cell.

and succinct counter argument. Rather than simply attacking my statement as idiotic, perhaps you would care to explain the merits of kids carrying cellys at school. As I've pointed out in more than one post in this thread, we managed to survive and conduct our lives on this planet perfectly well before cell phones became a must-have accessory.

IF he didn't tell the teacher that it was his mom in Iraq, and
IF he did curse at the teacher, then she did the right thing.
Flame me if you want, but without knowing who he was talking to, I would have done the same.

I don't let ADULTS curse me, I'll be damned if I would let a kid.

teacher that this was his Mom in Iraq. The student started cussing AFTER HE WAS TAKEN TO THE OFFICE!

His first response was letting the teacher know why he was on the phone. That teacher took him to the Office. We don't know what happened in the office, but we do know that the kid started cussing. I don't think the kid should have been taken to the office for this.

They claim he did not tell anyone who he was speaking to UNTIL they got him to the office.

I'm not sure which is the correct version. I've been around enough schools and school administrators and I don't always believe them. I don't automatically disbelieve them either.

Bates came to Fort Benning with her son from Hunter Army Airfield in Savannah, Ga. She enrolled him at Spencer in August. Since her deployment overseas, Francois, whose father was killed when he was 5 years old, lives with a guardian who has five children in Columbus.

The incident happened when Francois received a call from his mother at 12:30 p.m., which he said was his lunch break. Francois said he went outside the school building to get a better reception when his mother called. A teacher who saw Francois on his phone told him to get off the phone. But he didn't....

"They are really allowed to have those cell phones so that after band or after chorus or after the debate and practices are over they have to coordinate with the parents," said Alfred Parham, assistant principal at Spencer. "They're not supposed to use them for conversating back and forth during school because if they were allowed to do that, they could be text messaging each other for test questions."

Francois said he told the teacher, "This is my mom in Iraq. I'm not about to hang up on my mom."

Francois said the teacher tried to take the phone, causing it to hang up.


Coversating back and forth? CONVERSATING? Is that a country cousin of CONVERSING? I'd say that assistant principal is a DUNCE. And the teacher who grabbed the phone from the kid is a jerk.

I strongly support teachers, when they are good. But these bozos sound like rubes to me!

in capital letters.

Not a surprise though, temps run hot, folks read what they want to see.

just askin...:bounce:

So, the kid gets his ONE call a month from his mom in a war zone,a nd is supposed to say, "Sorry Mom! Can't talk now. Guess I'll hear from you next month if you're not dead! Bye!"

She called him, and she called him THEN because she is in a combat zone, and probably has three phones for 2,000 people, and can only call when there is a chance.

it would be one thing if the kid initiated the call- although i doubt that would be possible- any phone contact has to come from the sodlier...it would be utter chaos for them to carry cellphones and take calls in a war zone.

but as you said- she can only call when she has the opportunity, which is probably very limited.

the school is wrong, and unless the suspension does something to affect his GPA or his graduation- i say he should just enjoy the time off- that's what i'd do.

stay home from school for ten days, if I was in his shoes and I wouldn't have hung up on her either.

The kid should get an award for citizenship for standing up to the little Nazi teacher.