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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:27 PM
Original message
Marines surprised by insurgent's preparation for attack
Edited on Mon May-09-05 10:29 PM by NNN0LHI
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/world/11605487.htm

AL QAIM, Iraq - (KRT) - The Marines who swept into the Euphrates River town of Ubaydi confronted an enemy they had not expected to find - and one that attacked in surprising ways.

As they pushed from house to house in early fighting, trying to flush out the insurgents who had attacked their column with mortar fire, they ran into sandbagged emplacements behind garden walls. They found a house where insurgents were crouching in the basement, firing upwards through slits hacked at ankle height in the ground-floor walls, aiming at spots that the Marines' body armor did not cover.

The shock was that the enemy was not supposed to be in this town at all. Instead, American intelligence indicated that the insurgency had massed on the other side of the river. Marine commanders expressed surprise Monday not only at the insurgents' presence but also the extent of their preparations, as if they expected the Marines to come. snip

After retreating, Marines in Lawson's company called in artillery and heavy machine guns to rake the house. As sporadic fighting continued Monday morning, they brought in tanks and leveled it, Davis said.

Though military commanders in Baghdad announced that 100 insurgent fighters were killed in the early fighting, along with three Marines, Davis' figures were lower. He said "a couple of dozen" insurgents had been killed in Ubaydi, about 10 at another river crossing near Al Qaim, and several who were killed by air strikes north of the river.

more

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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. it IS Vietnam! we (or the imperials) thought then that those browner
people couldn't POSSIBLY devise a clever plan like that
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Well, who did the Marines THINK they were dealing with?
Edited on Mon May-09-05 10:48 PM by rocknation
A bunch of undersized yellow gook rice addicts armed with not much more than sharpened sticks? Uhhhh, never mind...

:dunce:
rocknation
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. That about sums it up.
They are taught that the "enemy" is a sub humanoid coward. Kind of like the population of Germany was conditioned to despise the Jews.
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Another Knight Ridder scoop.
KR is the only news agency worth reading on Iraq.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I agree
Of US media, they have provided what looks to be the most in-depth coverage.

Even they are depending heavily on US sources (doesn't read like they had anyone close to the fighting) -still they get quotes from people who WERE there, rather than relying on official releases.

This is just FUBAR. The US is still fighting to hang on to bridges.
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. we had bad intelligence?
can you imagine such a thing?

These casualty figures remind me so much of being a child during the Vietnam War. I remember one of my first questions about Vietnam had to do with how it was possible that we kept killing 10-20 times as many of them but never seemed to be getting anywhere.
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hector459 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. But they had good intelligence. Imagine that! n/t
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. You were right then, and you're right now. . . . . .eom
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. Because there are a lot more of them
then there are of us.

In Iraq there are 25 million people, give or take a few since Georgie has been in control. There are about 150,000 of us.

Besides this is exactly what Georgie wants. He has no peace plan for Iraq. The only solutions he offers are aggressive military actions. Someone forgot to tell him that he owns Iraq. It is up to him to get it under control and he doesn't have a clue. Nor does he want one.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Another corner turned in the peacefulization and democrazations
in Iraq. An enemy? That attacked? wow. I can't believe American intelligence missed that. :sarcasm:
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
31. No, no, no
Freedom is on the march.........right out of that village to phone in for assistance from an armoured division. :sarcasm:
My greatest fear...our guys are like a grasshopper that accidentally landed on an ant mound. Any moment they will be set upon and we won't be able to get them out. I just don't trust this administration to care.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Surprised? SURPRISED???
Look, this is blindingly obvious. Think of them fighting as if you would were your hometown occupied by a foreign power.

Except they're being told they're there to spread freedom. Or democracy. Or whatever.

They're not thinking as they would in a similar situation.

If <X powerful nation> invaded us, and there were an abandoned town, would we fortify it, quietly, in secret? Hell yes we would, because we're defending our country.

:grr: :grr: :grr:
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. I'm thinking it's just practice
for what's to be reality here in the good old usa
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SnowGoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. Ever seen the movie "Red Dawn"
in which a world-turned-socialist invades and occupies the USA?

The Americans were doing the same thing in that movie as the insurgents are now... they were resisting an foreign occupier.

And we would do the same.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Of course, this is nowhere near as surprising
Edited on Mon May-09-05 10:48 PM by rocknation
as the way in which those pesky insurgents managed to steal 350 TONS of ammunition right out from under the U.S. force's noses.

:shrug:
rocknation
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Chicago Trib reports towns warning each other with lights.
It also quoted some marines as saying residents of one riverside town turned off all their lights at night, apparently to warn neighbouring towns of the approaching U.S. troops.

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/050509/w050954.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4993635,00.html

Donkey carts firing missiles, lights signalling attacks. What's next...smoke signals?

Low tech winning over high tech.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Whats next, "one if by land, two if by water"?
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Wasn't that the lesson of the Ewoks? . . .
Low tech defeats high tech.

(I think I have the name right.)
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
33. I thought it might be to hide, but that's too sensible. nt
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. The marines are no match for these guys unless they use
high altitude bombs. Time for the boys to come home before they get hurt.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yup, They Couldn't....
Edited on Mon May-09-05 11:56 PM by jayfish
clear the house so they called in artillery. On a house!

Jay

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Theduckno2 Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. They'll have to destroy Iraq in order to save it?
Relentless fighting in Afghanistan destroyed building after building. We seem to have started that pattern in Fallujah and it is continuing with artillery, air strikes and other heavy weaponry. The world will wind up with another Afghanistan (with oil).
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radar Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. There's profit in that tactic...
...Halliburton et al get to rebuild everything our soldiers destroy.

Just put it on our tab. We'll pay later.
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
17. Why do I believe that helicopters, missiles and fighters did all the
bombing? (Plus mortars.)
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
18. "As if they expected the Marines to come"
Hmmm, we wouldn't have any insurgents undercover in all those tens of thousands of Iraqi military personnel in our midst, would we?

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the insurgents have better intelligence on us than we have on them.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. All Iraqis are Insurgents except the ones ...
in the Green Zone. All the dead are Insurgents.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
21. Throughout the sewer of imperial history...
...colonizers have been unpleasantly surprised by those they considered far beneath them in tactics, bravery, and intelligence, not to mention morality.

It's part of the great colonial delusion. You set forth to invade the barbarians, the "lesser races," who you will "civilize" or, as the CNN-Time Warner version goes, "democratize."

Then, suddenly, the ingrates start killing you in novel ways. Imagine that. However did the monkeys think to...?

And so the March of Folly goes on.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
22. This is just unfuckingbelievable...
They really, really really have no clue what is going on....

<snip>

But more surprising, he said, was the insurgents' preparation and tactical prowess, a development that he said reinforced intelligence that many of the insurgents have been trained by outsiders.

Davis described sophisticated attacks in which the detonation of a roadside bomb would be quickly followed by accurate mortar or rocket fire, then machine-gun fire as Marines raced to the area.

"They clearly have trained people," he said. "It looks rehearsed."

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Wright Patman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Trained by outsiders?
During the 1980s, I well remember Iraqi pilots being trained at Sheppard AFB in Wichita Falls, Texas.

At that point, the Iraqis were such good allies in the war against the Ayatollah Khomeini that I never would have dreamed we would someday fight what has basically been a 15-year-long war with those people with no end in sight.

It's just too bad they were sitting on all that oil. No one would ever have bothered them if it weren't right underneath them in such quantities that it seeps out of the ground without even having to drill wells.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
24. shock and awe, the sequel.
are they sure the iraqi's weren't welcoming them with open arms?

the resorting to air power is odd isn't it?

but i'm one of those who believes we pick wars to fight so that the pentagon can try out new expensive toys and tactics.

besides oil -- the iraq debacle is a good way to tell the chinese{or russians or whomever} -- we keep in practice.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
25. More Viet Vu in Iraq Nam.
I can only imagine what our Viet Nam veterans must be seeing when they read accounts of "insurgents firing upward through slits hacked at ankle height, aiming at spots that the Marines' body armor did not cover." If that ain't a page from Viet Cong 101, it will do nicely until a real one comes along.

Who the FUCK got us into this mess and why ain't his ass in jail?
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
28. Bad intel
give me a break. We own the country. We are in charge. Get it under control folks. For over $300 billion Wackenhut could do a better job.

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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
29. It is a clever and patient enemy
The Iraqis have been simmering and they reach their boiling point, like any humans would.

Every parent who has buried a child, every person who's buried loved ones after US bombs or other attacks, tell me many are not joining this movement. Perhaps if they could get on with decent lives they could heal but no, they live in a world where nearly every day is like 9/11 for them, they can hardly heal over unjust deaths of their loved ones.....you can be many will eventually rise up.....as they have been, are now doing and will continue to do. We've killed what? 100,000 Iraqis? Wrongly imprisoned how many more? Put out pictures of torture....the list of grave injustices grow. The list of those fighting back will keep pace.

Julie
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ausiedownunderground Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
30. Marines have "no" clue what Hornet's nest they've been ordered to invade?
Al Qaim is full of well supplied "Jihadi's". These people want to die! Us marines, army and sailors just don't know what they're walking into. A lot of Americans are going to be killed and wounded in Al Qaim. This is not Fallujah!
Tal Afar is full of Turkmen, armed to the teeth by the Turks!!! A lot of American's are going to die here as well.
Sadr is mobilizing his militia again because the "hard core" have undergone significant "Sunni" special forces training. They want to take the American's on for a second time, because they believe they will kill heaps more this time. Iranian Revolutionary Guard troops have been supplying them with the necessary weapons. Expect a second Najaf confrontation, but this time a lot more American's will die! As for Basra, well that's Bliar's problem!
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
32. Then Colonel Custer yelled...
..."Where'd all these frikkin' indians come from?"
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DivinBreuvage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Actually what he said, or is reputed to have said, was:
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:35 PM by DivinBreuvage
"We caught 'em napping, boys!" (which still supports your point!)
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
36. Sounds like leaked Intel...
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:31 PM by Az_lefty
just like Nam. Plan a mission and get ambushed. Probably coming through the new Iraqi Security forces were working with.

as if they expected the Marines to come
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
38. They should pretend that they are all wearing day-glo camoflage,
because by now there are no operations that the insurgency isn't already aware.
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