Sen Ben Nelson says deal reached on judges to avoid shutdown

AP red alert--just came over on the wire--looking for link

ADDING LINK:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FILIBUSTER_FIGHT?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=customwire.htm

he is speaking on the floor-

still looking for link

There are times that you should fight to the end on principle and for future strategy. If this isn't one of them, I'm not sure what is.

Let's see what the deal is.

The worst of the worst. Detestable. :puke:

Give the Fascists 95% and they demand more.

So, like appeasing a kid throwing a screaming, kicking tantrum in the middle of the mall, the Quisling Democrats say "OK, just a few more."

They also pledged not to block any future Supreme Court nominees unless there are "extraordinary circumstances". They are making pledges to vote for * Supreme Court Nominees before they even know who they are. The Republicans just won because of the DLC caving in once again. Who needs a filibuster if you pledge not to use it?

n/t

itching for details.....:o

both agree? Or just the group that was talking? I don't see any room for a deal really.

Lieberman is going to hold a news conference. :shrug:

will look for a link.

Gulp.

This does not bode well.

comparing it to a power grab and a blow against checks and balances. Let's wait and see what happens.

I see Holy Joe, Warner, and McCain.

I don't think he gets kudos for being against this. It should be expected!

ANYONE else but Joementum.

guess I'll just wait and see what they say at the news conference. CNN saying the deal was brokered by "The Gang of 12". :shrug:

God help us all.

This is NOT a good deal.

So bunkerboy gets all but 2 - maybe - of his ahole nominations thru when they blocked over 250 of Clinton's - and none - in his last term.

Great "deal".

rah.

And they wonder why many more of us are so far sitting out the next election.

If the Republicans could kill the filibuster, they would do it. They don't have the votes.

as I write this.

In the end, we will probably give them everything they want, if not more, and they will be allowed to filibuster all of a Democratic president's judges for all of the future.

Why not just let them shoot their feet off?

I don't get it. If he had the votes, he'd go for the nuclear option. If he didn't have them, why the need for a deal???

Is this about saving face?

I have a feeling "Joe-Mentum" is about to bite us in the ass yet again...:banghead:

This is the possible deal and it makes me ill:

From AP:

With a meeting scheduled for early evening, negotiators were focusing on a compromise covering the fate of several of Bush's current nominees as well as ground rules for considering future appointments.

Under a proposal outlined in a draft agreement last Friday, Owen would be cleared for a final confirmation vote, as would Janice Rogers Brown, William Pryor, Richard Griffin, Susan Neilson and David McKeague, all of whom have been named to appeals courts. There would be no such guarantee for William Myers and Henry Saad, two other nominees that Democrats have blocked.

Note: This means Enron-Owens, anti-Social Security will get in.

Link: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FILIBUSTER_FIGHT?SITE=UTSOD&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&SECTION=HOME

CAPITOL HILL (AP) -- Senate sources say a bipartisan group of
moderates have reached a compromise to avert a showdown over
judicial nominees.

"Under a proposal outlined in a draft agreement last Friday, Owen would be cleared for a final confirmation vote, as would Janice Rogers Brown, William Pryor, Richard Griffin, Susan Neilson and David McKeague, all of whom have been named to appeals courts. There would be no such guarantee for William Myers and Henry Saad, two other nominees that Democrats have blocked."

That's just sick. I would really lose my mind over that. That's basically just democrats caving in.

If we control it we can do to Bush what Orin Hatch did to Clinton.

what kind of a deal is that?

Understanding that this puts Ch*** & Frist out-of-power but:

McCain is rumored to be running for 2008 office

So is Frist.

So is Hillary.

These secret Dems/Repub dealers are turning into heros in a way, per se. Maybe, maybe these Repubs are the only ones not drinking from the Kool-Aid.

Why would we give them everything?

We need to show the Republicans for the extremists they are.

Also, if they are going to get everything they want, we need to let them get rid of the filibuster so that the next Democtatic President can put in any judges he wants.

Don't give them everything and also let them have the filibuster the next time they need it.

Either get rid of it for both parties or they don't get any judges.

Democrats are walking right into a trap.

Owen is included per CNN online.

I can't believe this. Un-freakin-real. Note to "moderate" Dems: Psssst...cave just one more time! Show the folks what you really stand for! I am so sick of this fence-straddling that I can't see straight.

I used to consider myself a moderate, but I have now reconsidered. Moderate now seems to mean absolutely no courage at all, and if that is the case, I think I'll pass. Flagrant cowards, every last one.

How disgusting.

This is the best - and I mean it - the best we can do for now, and we're maintaining the capacity to filibuster Supreme Court nominees.

Fucking naysaying bullshit. This is the BEST deal we got, and we're handing Frist his ASS for not being able to kill the filibuster. Jesus Christ, people.

.........we're maintaining the capacity to filibuster Supreme Court

If this deal is accepted then Democrats have agreed to never use the fillibuster, and if they do use it - BAM RULE CHANGE. So the fascists get all of their hideous appointments and we get NOTHING IN RETURN. And then we get to the SC appt and then what? What's your rosy scenario then? Huh?

If the filibuster was removed for judges, appointments and legislation would have followed.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I'd like to think this puts the real power in the senate to a group of 12 moderates, rather than party line votes. And I hope this will be viewed as a major defeat for republican extremest.

Essentially what happened:

Republicans: no nuclear option will be exercised unless Democrats use filibuster in circumstances that are not "extrordinary".

Democrats: will allow 5 of 7 controversial judges to go for a vote and pledge not to use filibuster except in "extrordinary circumstances".

the problem is Republicans will never accept any circumstances as "extrordinary", so the next time Democrats try to filibuster, we will be back to square one.

So essentially, we gave the Repugs 5 judges for free.

to sustain an assertion of "extraordinary circumstances". There is just too much at stake, and these guys dont go out looking for a fight like the opposition does.

Get ready to hear the Russer/Matthews/Blitzer types talking about how how democrats are whining about a nominee, "though they acknowledge (far in advance) that they will probably be confirmed." Thats the best we will get, until we regain a majority in the Senate.

These sellouts pledged not to filibuster the Supreme Court nominees unless there are "extraordinary circumstances". And now by accepting deal unless Bush appoints a convicted murderer the thugs are going to claim there are not "extraordinary circumstances" and if they try a filibuster it will only make it easier for the nuclear option to go through because it will make it look like the Democrats broke their promise. Who needs a filibuster if you are not going to use it. Fuck the DLC.

Way to go vichy dems!

Just give it away!

Don't fight the good fight and lose. Just fucking give it all away.

So now bunkerboy gets ALL BUT "maybe" 2 of ALL his nominations to date! Wow! Hooray! And just think - MAYBE he'll get ALL of em including the last 2 plus the Supremes!

Yeah!

Go lecture someone else.

We're too smart to buy what you're trying to sell us.

Complete, utter, phony, and total surrender is what it is. Nothing less. And this is the Democratic Party? For shame! I really have to start thinking about an alternative. This is the last fucking straw.

to be made. I didn't catch what it was.

I think I'm feeling a bit sick. How is it we're the majority with a minority not in power?

:banghead:

A bipartisan group of senators has reached a deal to avert a showdown over President Bush's judicial nominees, congressional sources tell CNN. Details soon.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/19/bush.social.security.ap/index.html

What's the point of any point? Have I made my point?

:crazy: :banghead: :crazy:

Supreme Court nominee. And, the fact that they agreed to anything means that Frist and Bush blinked. (Must point out though that Graham said yesterday that there were a couple of these nominees that even a bunch of repubs were going to dink----so they got the bunch they wanted and we can filabuster whatever fascists they are going to put up for the SC).

might mean that a Supreme Court appointee who already holds a high judicial office (like Owen will, once she's been confirmed) or someone who has held high political office (like Ashcroft) is off limits for a filibuster.

Perhaps the "extraordinary circumstances" filibuster is just a weapon for the minority party in the event the POTUS appoints someone totally unsuitable like the Uni-Bomber or a street-person.

The devil is in the details. I think there is a lot of devilment here.

How is it going to be any different next time.
A nuclear option is just that -- an OPTION.
What's to prevent them pulling this again and again and again?

Not only that, but could the Repubs be thinking ahead to 2006? How many more senate seats could they get with Diebold voting?

Sure, give them 5 of 7 and retain the filibuster for Supreme Court, but after the election next year, the GOP may not have to worry about the Dems filibustering.

if they pull the nuclear option, they would esentially be breaking senate rules, since Cheney has NO authority to unilaterally change senate rules to limit debate. The senate parliamentarian HIMSELF has said so. Cheney would have to ignore the rules, which opens the Pugs up to criticism that they have no regard for the rules, and could damage them politically.

What happens here, is that they got what they wanted without having to take that political risk. They used the THREAT, and got what they wanted. That THREAT can be hung over our heads forever if we even THINK about filibustering anyone else.

Vichy dems.

I'm sick of them.

We need a few thousand Galloways.

One would be a good start.

I'm burned out from all this. What's all the deals about when the Dem's are being reported on CNN right now that Dem's won't Fillubuster.

Spector didn't want this, reported live now on CNN and others didn't like the agreement either.

I feel like turning off the TV and if I hear in-coming, I'll just duck and pray. Might as well get a job paying under-the-table since Social Security wil be drained and if Frist becomes President in 2008 I'm leaving on a jet plane and don't know when I"ll be back again...

:banghead: All are on stage right now on CNN!

:(

They want the end of the filibuster, period. We're standing them down and handing Frist his ass. He couldn't round up all his people to get this done. We won the debate on the filibuster. If we lost five judgeships, that's not the end of the world. The filibuster is the gold cup here, and we're saving it. Realism helps, y'know?

"Extraordinary Circumstances" are in the eyes of the beholder. Obviously it will be defined over party lines. This means that the Repubs will claim it is not Extraordinary Circumstances every time a nominee cries, "Stop impugning my integrity!" Therefore, the Repubs will by majority override any attempt at filibuster. It's a loss unless for any instance the Repubs disagree with a confirmation. They haven't done that yet and they have all thrown softball questions. Just remember Rice and Gonzalez to put it in perspective.

They got Owens, Rogers Brown, and Pryor ... the WORST of the WORST.

wtih no paper backup! 30 % of americans voted ont machines with no paper .

Frist just got his ass handed to him. Correct.

"Frist just got his ass handed to him. Correct."

Let's see. The Republicans and Bush "only" get 8 of the 10 most reactionary and right-wing judges we have seen in a long time approved. Yup. I'd call that a big win ..... for Bush.

Well, Bush finally needed to win something. After all, George Bush only got all of his key presidential appointments and some really nasty anti-consumer legislation (class action tort reform, bankruptcy bill) passed with the help of Democratic Senators, including Harry Reid.

Anyone going to pop the bubbly tonight and celebrate this great victory?

I wanna start drinkin'.:(

OH GOD OWENS AND BROWN ARE GOING TO BE VOTED ON!!!!!!!

I'M GOING TO LEAVE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND VOTE FOR NADER!!!!!

Look I don't like those two either but the only way to stop Bush is to win congress in 2006. To do that we've got to stop the intra-party sniping.

because your D's in congress are so pathetic and spineless. Ever want to throw your support behind someone who will stand up for something that's right instead of making deals for what's wrong??

And you're calling Senate Dems pathetic and spineless?!

After Ralphie sucked up so shamelessly to the RW?!

Pot, it's kettle calling.

You probably still believe the lie there was no differance between Bush and Al Gore.

Oh, I forgot. We don't have any.

Look this delays the showdaown for when Bush nominates a replacement for Rheinquist. Such will be a time when more Anericans are paying attention,

Remeber the backlash from the Clarence Thomas/ Anita Hill hearings?

snip

"...officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the
agreement wuld clear the way for yes or no votes on some of Bush's
nominees, but make no guarantee.
Under the agreement, Democrats would pledge not to filibuster
any of Bush's future appeals court or Supreme Court nominees except
in "extraordinary circumstances."
For their part, Republicans agreed not to support an attempt to
strip Democrats of their right to block votes..."

snip

with exceptions.

again, I feel ill. :(

whatever that means.

....Under the agreement, Democrats would pledge not to filibuster
any of Bush's future appeals court or Supreme Court nominees except
in "extraordinary circumstances."

I just can't be a Democrat anymore.

precedents based on the general welfare and commerce clauses that provide the Constitutionality for nearly all federal legislation since 1932.

Some of these RW loons want to declare Social Security, the Civil Rights Act and the various environmental acts unconstitutional. They want to fight the 1930s fights all over again.

They must be stopped.

I'm wondering what this all means, since we're likely to see a Supreme Court vacancy by the end of the year..

the nomination of a sitting member of the SCOTUS is an "extreme circumstance." After that, Ashcroft may be nominated to the bench.

Sorry to shout.

But they get their F-ing "yes or no" votes and we won't filibuster their supreme court nominees??????????

WHAT??????

simple awful.

:eyes:

What IN THE HELL constitutes an extraordinary circumstance?!!!

If Priscilla Owen doesn't constitute as an extraordinary circumstance, I do not know who does.

all 12 will be present (who worked on the deal)

It will be interesting to see how powerful this group might become.

no link

Press conference within minutes.

:scared:

I am afraid to see who. :hide:

Byrd, Reid and McCain are probably big winners and Frist is a big time loser. I mean really big.

We give them everything they want, they get to keep the filibuster for the next time they need it when there's a Democratic president.

You don't even know what the deal is yet.

You made a comment without knowing the deal, I responded, and you said I shouldn't comment because we don't know the deal.

Pot, meet the kettle. :)

That poster has "bullshited" me throughout these postings.

Wow! Thanks fellow "Democrat." No one out here should "shout bullshit" to others. W/ya "Democrat"

With "friends" like these.....

regardless of what the deal actually is, there are some that will declare it a sellout no matter what. They might as well do it before they know what the deal is.

oh his any old time he wants!

The real loser here will be Frist the cat killer. He has staked a great deal killing filibusters of bush's judicial nominees.

Frist is the big loser hear.

He DESERVES to lose big on this one.

:scared: and anxious.

Lord help us all...

Happened in McCains office. I'm not sure if Lieberman being happy translates into "us" being happy.

:9

People too cowardly to stand for something.

Especially if they were the ones to save the filibuster.

that the religious right will be at the Senate tomorrow because this is important to them and they aren't going to back down that easily.

to show up? Oh I can't wait.

they wanted.

an idea? Or are they the final spokespeople? Can Dictator Cheney and PNAC/Fed Society still say no?

that if they all agree, then this group can dictate what happens.

A deal now would make it almost impossible for the Republicans to try to again threaten the nuclear option when it really counts - the Supreme Court. Almost.

rules you know!!

It'll be like crying wolf again and again. The public and even the press whores won't stand for it.

vote, for anything, any day, any time. Excuse me, make that 14

I'm relieved that the nuclear option will not take place tomorrow.

We're fucked, folks. Royally fucked.

Sorry for the cussing, but there's no doubt about it.

Everybody ready for the divine intervention?

I'm a wee bit pissed and a whole lot disappointed, but I should be used to that by now.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FILIBUSTER_FIGHT?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=customwire.htm

"Under the agreement, Democrats would pledge not to filibuster any of Bush's future appeals court or Supreme Court nominees except in "extraordinary circumstances."

For their part, Republicans agreed not to support an attempt to strip Democrats of their right to block votes."

So, the GOP promises not to strip the Democrats of their "right" to block votes if the GOP gets the up or down vote they wanted in the first place?

So, what did the GOP give up in this exactly?

and who gets to define what constitutes "extraordinary circumstances"?

A nominated judge is found guilty of rape, incest and murder.

"The agreement said future nominees to the appeals court and Supreme Court should "only be filibustered under extraordinary circumstances," with each Democrat senator holding the discretion to decide when those conditions had been met."

it's anal rape of your wife in which case, it's part of the wife's marital duties.

It was a joke about the Republicans. In particular, I was joking about one of the recent nominees who apparently has a history of this with his wife.

Now, murder, on the other hand. Well, what about declaring there are WMD in Iraq and getting public support to go in. And then, finding no WMDs but killing 100,000 civilians?

Aren't we already at the point of "extraordinary circumstances??"

Liberal, Progressive, walks on his two feet without dragging his knuckles, can read and write, believes in logic and science...

In other words, is NOT a wacko religious nut job fundy repuke or KKK member.

Am I missing something?

Because the Democrats will not filibuster any of them.

That makes some sense...I only get three tv channels and none of them are showing the press conference. I am reading conflicting things here and I'm confused :shrug:

Guess I just need to be patient ;)

eom

What a sorry bunch of losers we have for a party.

We have soemthing but can never use it....Oh, I feel better. Basically the filibuster is gone without the headlines....which is worse the country will see only the comfirmation of who we have fought hard to prevent...Who could possible be worse that the thugs that will get confirmed?


These are the qualified circuit court nominees that were never given an "up
or down" vote by the Republican controlled senate. They were all nominated
by President Clinton. Notice that three were nominated to the fifth circuit
where the Democrats are now using their constitutional right to block Mr.
Bush's extremist nominees.

H. Alston Johnson (5th Circuit), James Duffy (9th Circuit), Kathleen
McCree-Lewis (6th Circuit), Enrique Moreno (5th Circuit), James Lyons (10th
Circuit), Robert Cindrich (3rd Circuit), Stephen Orlofsky (3rd Circuit),
Andre Davis (4th Circuit), James Beaty (4th Circuit), J. Rich Leonard (4th
Circuit),Allen Snyder (D.C. Circuit), Helene White (6th Circuit), Jorge
Rangel (5th Circuit), Robert Raymer (3rd Circuit), Barry Goode (9th
Circuit), Christine Arguello (10th Circuit), Elizabeth Gibson (4th Circuit),
Elana Kagan (D.C. Circuit), James Wynn (4th Circuit), Bonnie Campbell (8th
Circuit), Kent Markus (6th Circuit), and Roger Gregory (4th Circuit).

Democrats agree to let all of Bush's judges through, except for two that Bush didn't even expect to make it anyway. In return, Democrats get to keep the right to filibuster judges, as long as they promise not to use it, including on Supreme Court justices.

Then, when a Democratic President is in office, Republicans will filibuster almost every judge that he nominates and they'll scream about how Democrats are hypocrites because we were the ones fighting for the right to keep the filibuster.

If we are going to give them everything they want, and more, why not just let them get rid of the filibuster so that they can't use it against us once we are back in power?

If this deal turns out to be what people are saying, we are letting them have everything and getting no long term strategic gain.

It also makes Republicans look more moderate - if we forced them to "go nuclear" it would make them look more extremist before the 2006 elections.

:)

Trap is right. A lose-lose situation.

"and who gets to define what constitutes 'extraordinary circumstances'?"

The moral majority of course! Isn't that how you decide things in Congress?

extortion.

i will desert the Democrat Party so help me God!

No reason. We have just caved and given the Repugs and Bush the 3 most conservative judges ever and he is free to nominate the same type over and over. Bush wins it all again. These 7 Dems and Reid have to go.

I'm ashamed to have voted Democratic. So why vote anymore is the big question? Dems have given permission to the final destruction of this country.

for a long time now.

Why?

They have to give US a reason to vote FOR them this time around.

So far, THEY have a LOT of work to do, and they haven't even started yet.

screwed, blooed and tatooed by the Repugs right on their backsides.

The Repugs got what they wanted and we get to keep our filibuster...as long as we promise not to use it.

We're doomed!!! :mad:

I think we just got The Royal Shaft.:hurts:

Look the only way to defeat Bush's nominees is to control the Senate.

Not to commit suicide on principle.

to grab even more power, and we're supposed to be happy that they took a pricey bribe not to do it this time?

What about next time, people? Are these Senators ever going to realize what they're up against, stand up and say NO MORE?

bribe (brīb)

n.

1. Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct.

http://www.answers.com/bribe&r=67

Party to help elect real DEMOCRATS to office in order that they might represent his cause and beliefs as a democrat/Democrat back.

Apparently he believes, like so many other democrats/Democrats, and based on the evidence of many recent legislative actions voted upon by a substantial number of DLC right-wing Democratic Senators/Representatives, that the right-wing of the Democratic Party is not acting in a manner consistent with traditional Democratic Party values, and are, in fact, aiding the republican party in their very obvious right-wing takeover of the government of the US.

donation - to present as a gift for a fund or a cause.

understands me.

14 SENATORS ANNOUNCE DEAL THAT MAY PREVENT 'NUCLEAR OPTION' OVER SENATE FILIBUSTER

http://abcnews.go.com/

no further details yet...

What have we given up here? How will we get it back?

Maybe now, Dr.Fristian Doom will see his ambitious bubble burst.

Same with gay rights, unions, health care, etc.

We have to GIVE UP these things and SAVE it for some always unattainable FUTURE vote that will be MORE important!

Didn't you get the memo?

Some may not like compromise, but the most very important thing is that this totally cuts the balls off of Frist, Dobson and the rest of them.

We can live to fight another day: mainly the replacement for Rehnquist and the next SCOTUS justice.

He got absolutely everything he wanted!

The Dems got shit - the right to filibuster with a promise not to! And Frist didn't even have to expend political capital on trying to get the nuclear option passed or suffer possible public backlash if it did.

Many here pretend that our political system is still functioning. It's not. The opposition senators should have walked the fuck out and made it plain to everyone that the checks and balances, three branches of government, purse strings et al. don't exist outside of a damn high school civics class.

Fuck it. So many people are blind. Two parties, one system. And don't dare call me a left-wing loon for saying this.

... in 1968.

This was total capitulation by the Quisling Democrats. They're allowing Owens, Rogers Brown, and Pryor to be seated in the Circuit Courts of Appeal for their lifetimes. They're promising to disarm and not exercise their legitimate right to filibuster except under "extraordinary circumstances" (like the Rapture, probably). That "promise" extends to every judical nominee. Let's remember that Chimperor Codpiece disrespected the Senate's last term rejection of these nominees and just renominated them ... and also illicitly used the "recess appointment" provison to put Pryor on the Appellate Court ... even though he was rejected. That son of a bitch hasn't compromised one iota. He's been arrogant and has nominated the most extremist judges (and lwyers) of any President ever. Every one of them is a Federalist Society Reichbot.

I'm appalled at the people on DU swallowing the spin from the Force Five spin-tornado coming out of the Corporate Media and the Corporate Slaves in Congress.

Three of the 12 on the committee were on nightline and this is part of what was mentioned.Landrieu kept talking about partisanship and how they want to work with Bush.

Under the agreement, Democrats would pledge not to filibuster any of Bush's future appeals court or Supreme Court nominees except in "extraordinary circumstances."

If the Democrats don't defend themselves, the Republicans won't call strip of their ability to defend themselves?

"Extraordinary circumstances"?

Like the judges in question weren't extraordinary circumstances?

and no filibusters except in "exceptional circumstances"


I think the Democrats are already complying with that one.
Unfortunately, the repubs probably won't, as soon the next really bad one comes up, and they'll do this again, and again.

Will the repubs in this "deal" stick to it?

THEIR idea of "exceptional" and OURS are lightyears apart. Pretty vague and unbelievably lame.... :wtf:

About time the moderates took control of the agenda.

I doubt this means Barbara Boxer will take control of the agenda.

Letting Brown and Owen go through is a defeat as I see it. These are two of the least qualified, most extreme candidates for the bench that have ever come before the Senate.

They should have stood up for judges that both sides can agree upon. This is the outcome the WH wanted. Our side blinked.

Owen & Brown were the absolute worse.

Wondering how Senator Boxer, Biden, Kennedy and Schumer are feeling about this.

What party did you say we belong to? I no longer know because Senator Boxer is going to speak at 8:30 on C-Span according to Senator Durbin, speaking right now. He says they're all "exhilarated" and "both sides of the aisle" are feeling "great!"

:crazy::crazy::crazy:

Turning off TV. WTF

I guess they've really gotten to like it.
"Please sir, can I have another?"

Here is the real bad news. If this deal was not made, the republican's could have changed the senate rules to end the filibuster. In two months they could have put the craziest sob they could find on the SCOTUS and 85% of this country would not remember what a filibuster was!

We don't control the senate, the republican's do, like it or not they are in control of this countries government. What these 12 senators did was momentary take the power away from the extreme right.

Listen to talk radio or read Republican message boards, they are furious.

"We don't control the senate, the republican's do"

That may explain why we lose but it doesn't mean our losses are really wins.

"What these 12 senators did was momentary take the power away from the extreme right."

By giving them 3-5 more of the Judges they wanted after already giving them 200 of them.

"Listen to talk radio or read Republican message boards, they are furious."

Yes. When they don't get what they want they get angry. When we don't get what we want we declare victory!

in what the details of this "deal" are. I hope the Democrats, as is usually the case, didn't give away too much here. I'm very pessimistic at this point.

Now two of the biggest GOP crony judges -- Owens and Brown -- will have an even bigger say over the lives of Americans. And for what? For the "promise" that the Republicans will allow the Democrats to filibuster in the future? Anyone gullible enough to believe the Repubs will even honor such an agreement?

What a compromiser that Chamberlain was. Where have we rationalized these compromises before? Seems I have heard the choir singing praises for the even handed compromisers many times here. Then after the dust settles everyone says, 'oh, look what they did. We didn't think they would do that.'

Heck, cannot beat them, might as well join them, eh. No wonder this country is so screwed-up, the left is marginalized by their own party as "extremists" and the choir keeps singing praises for the 'new' center, which used to be the right.

Well Senator, don't piss down my back and tell me its raining.

and "WE" were right and Kerry and the Vichy dems were WRONG!

BIG TIME!

And they still wonder why the dems lose elections!

and our Democratic Senators are weaker than.....than a used tea bag. Didn't they learn anything from George Galloway?

I'm so pissed I can hardly type.

They are well versed and they are part of the equation ;). I'm disgusted and will vote green, left libertarian ... anything but DINO.

Don't worry, you can always buy your way out of your problems. And centrist Dems are almost as much to blame as the Republicans. I don't know what the solution to this mess might be. Many days I think - fuck it, if people don't care about stolen elections, or censorship in the media, or the thousands dead and dying in Iraq, then Americans truly deserve Republican rule. I've got a great idea, lets all live in misery, do nothing to fix our problems, but pray for Jesus to save us. It's the new American way. Bring on the theocracy! :(

This is C-SPAN live webcast. Should be on CSPAN 2. God help us.

God help us.

This is a great deal for the Senate Democrats in power. This how our Fearful Leaders stand down from challenges. They didn't think about the constitution when they made this deal. They didn't think about us. They only considered giving themselves a good deal for them and for the other over-privileged senators.

They still get their pensions. They still get health care. They still get raises. WE GET SCREWED. The party of the New Deal has now given us The Screw You Deal.

The hell with the Democrats. They have left us for good now.

you make it sound like these 3 judicial nominees have been in held in a concentration camp!!

What a freakin bastard!!!! :grr:

And he will use it if the dems try to "abuse" their powers and fillibuster again. What kind of deal is that? They better have a deal with those repugs to vote Priscilla Owen and Janice Rogers Brown down.

What the hell is going on with the Democratic Party???:dem::nuke:

What the hell is happening to this country???:shrug:

voted down. Brown & Owens i speak of.

The death of democracy is what's going on. Slowly but surely, we are watching this country become the Facist States of Americas. The reason? We are a nation of sheep being led by a handful of repugnant and DINO pigs chasing more power and more money.

And thats whats going on. ;(

senator. I wish some of those cats he dissected would come back from the dead and scratch his eyes out. That's how sickening this man is.

After the dust is settled on this one the spin will be that Frist's pressure got 3 extreme conservatives confirmed, and that he actually won. The Republicans sacrificed two minor nominees in order to confirm the worst of the extremists.

The Democrats essentially got NOTHING from this "compromise." The Democrats retain the right to filibuster, as long as they don't agree to use it... It's quite laughable. Republican Lindsey Graham (my own Senator, btw), a member of this gang of 14, is already on the tube, asserting how he has the right to change the rules to a mere 51 votes if the need arises.

We CAVED IN AGAIN GODDAMNIT !

That's a "compromise"? We agree to give them what they want, and they agree to take it?

Rat bastards have sold our country out.

It's over. The USA is no more.

unless as part of the deal the moderate Repubs privately promised to vote "no" when it comes to time to have a yes or no vote on Owen, Brown, and Pryor. I'm not holding my breath believing that was part of the deal. With Democrats like these, who needs Republicans.

:-(

----

Officials from both parties said the agreement would clear the way for yes or no votes on some of Bush’s nominees but make no guarantee.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7957374

Once again the Repukes get their way and Dems bend over and supplicate. HELLO! Is there any wonder why Dems are perceived as "wimps" and "weak"????

BUSH gets his way again...

JB

there is little to be thankful for in this.

1. The Pukkkes never keep their promises, and McCain can't promise that they will.

2. We gave the Right a big pass on rule changes.

3. We're giving them MORE judges.

4. Nothing was really settled.

5. Hooray! the moderates got some publicity--now make it stick, McCain!

6. What did we get? They promised not to crush us unless they feel like it!

Maybe we blew enough sand in their eyes to get them to stop this power grabbing nonsense for awhile. But why would Frist cooperate? He's more single minded than a Roomba. My bet?this will fall through. They don't want compromise, they want absolute power, and they won't let the McCain/Lieberman party stop them.

I'll lay odds that Dems give in on this and the Repukes will STILL fuck us over. The problem is Dems (in general) are too well-adjusted to understand that Repukes cannot be trusted and that they will kick you in the balls in any fight.

This kind of bullshit almost drives me homicidal. Time for a another major political party, me thinks. Maybe we could call it the "Rational Force" party...rational to denote our sensibilities and force to indicate that unlike Dems we aren't going to take any Repuke/pseudo-fascist bullshit.

JB

Democrat put it the way I see it in post 93.

They agree not to oppose the filibuster again -- which means that we get some say in the future of pretty much anything for the next two years (they could have decided to pull this crap again, on anything -- not just a judicial nominations)-- most importantly we get a vote in who fills Rehquist's seat.

Look it's a compromise -- in a compromise pretty much no one is really happy but its better than the alternatives.

They agree not to oppose the filibuster again -- which means that we get some say in the future of pretty much anything for the next two years...

Why would they need to oppose the filibuster again if one of the terms is that it won't be used? You're right about one thing -- nobody should be happy because this makes both sides look bad. Unfortunately, the Dems' image is starting from a lower point and we're taking a worse beating on this one than the 'thugs are.....

Dems should have stuck to their position...I think the people would have reacted at the polls if the republicans removed the filibuster

rejected. You do as I want or else, was the message--and they did.

What is so astonishing about that? And we see Lieberman sticking his face into the forefront again.

This game of tennis has been repeated over and over for the past five years. It is continued by his adament refusal to accept his SS snake oil product does not work, yet he continues to use our money for his frivolous pursuit of win that one game over an opponent who has already beat him twenty times.

Simple.

Bush won. It will played up as such in all the headlines, adding to his scorecard. Just another thing he can claim as his legacy.

Bolton will be approved also. No doubt in my mind in spite of all the brohaha. There are no heroes in the Democrat party. Only loud spouting and spewing actors playing to the camera, it seems.

Remember this was the guy who could never admit he lost a game of tennis, no matter how many games he really did lose. He forced the opponent to keep playing until he finally won a game. or so the tale went before his appointment by the SCOTUS.

The threat was the nuclear option and that is what drove Democrats into fear and into this submissive posture.

They ain't gonna win a thing and I am not so sure they want to, if Lieberman is somewhere in the back room making deals with McCain.

But then, dear people, who else will you vote for in the next election? There are really only two choices and as we saw in the last election, a vote was forced into voting against this tyrannical man. So many are fed up with their party, but what is the alternative but to vote them in? Not vote at all? Leave the country? Vote third parry?

It is a double blind at this point.

You will vote and they know you will and they know you will not vote Repbublican.

I will never again waste my vote on anyone I'm not voting FOR.

Never.

Again.

Repubs get all their judges appointed...

This is a compromise?

Sorry, as much as I like to hear Byrd speak, this is just a case of the Dems providing comedic entertainment...

dumb and dumber

Now the Repubs will spin it that they came out looking like roses, they negotiated the deal, they can work together...they they they

Even a blind man could have seen this coming...we stepped in it, and then they told us we had to like it. If they had the votes for the nuclear option, they would have USED it dammit!

Once again, the Dems prove they are a bastion of strategy...NOT

Very Vichy.

And it's very much on the mark.:evilgrin:

n/t

And this is probably the ONLY positive thing that I can see out of this deal. Apparently, Senators Robert Byrd and John Warner agreed to set up a bipartisan commission that would screen candidates and make recommendations to the President for judicial appointments. This is what really pissed me off when Bush first took office in 2001--he announced shortly after taking office that he would not be submitting his judicial nominations to an established review board set up by the American Bar Association for screening judicial nominations, a procedure that had been in use by Presidents from BOTH parties for well over 50 years. That was the first clear signal, IMO, that Bush had no intentions of "playing nice" on ANYTHING! If Bush does not abide by this bipartisan commission that Warner and Byrd are establishing, it seems to me that Bush will be in big trouble with the U.S. Senate. This is not to be taken lightly either (although I suspect that Bush in his arrogance IS taking it lightly). Recall the reaction of some of the most conservative federal court judges when Tom DeLay pulled that stunt with the Terri Schiavo case. Even Clarence Thomas had some choice words!

As to the nuclear option, I do not know whether either side had the votes, but my own gut tells me that the Republicans had the votes to pull the nuclear trigger. One reason I say this is because John McCain announced a while back that he would vote AGAINST pulling the nuclear option, and he reiterated that more recently. My own observation of McCain is that he likes to give the appearance of moderation, but in reality, he will always come down with the GOP when they need him for a crucial vote. If you do not believe this, just try and name ONE TIME when McCain's vote caused the GOP to lose a crucial vote! I think that you will find that it doesn't exist!

Having said that, I simply could not put together 6 Republican senators who would vote against their party on this. I DO believe that the Democrats were stupid to allow this because this vote had less to do with the Democrats and more to do with moderate Republican senators. If the nuclear option were actually pulled, who gets hurt the most? IMO, it's the moderate Republican senators who have been able to avoid making the hard votes against party interests on these judicial nominations--people like Lincoln Chaffee, Olympia Snowe, and Susan Collins. Well, as far as I am concerned, if these two-faced jerks want to stay in that party of thugs and warmongers, then why on earth should the Democrats continue to provide them cover for their two-faced nature? I hate to see the federal courts loaded down with a bunch of fascist pigs, but that may be what it takes for the constituents of these senators to realize that the party affiliation of the people they are electing DOES make a difference!

"Having said that, I simply could not put together 6 Republican senators who would vote against their party on this."

Lincoln Chafee
Arlen Specter
Olympia Snowe
Susan Collins
John McCain
John Warner

Possibles:
Richard Lugar
Richard Shelby
Norm Coleman
Lindsay Graham

It was no coincidence that they pulled that base closing mess BEFORE the filibuster showdown--the White House was certainly planning to "strong-arm" the weak-kneed with those closures. In particular, the women from Maine were up against the wall because those closures are supposed to cut deep! Specter is not in good health so I would not count on him for much of a fight. And as I said before, McCain is not one to vote against his party unless they simply do not need his vote to carry the day! Check McCain's votes out, and you will see what I mean--he's a disingenuous partisan jerk who is not going to stick his neck out unless the vote is already doomed.

There are certainly some on your list that are possibilities, but with the base closures and the White House pulling out all the stops, I would not count on ANY of them!