Judge Gives Offenders Option of Church

LONDON, Ky. -- A Kentucky judge has been offering some drug and alcohol offenders the option of attending worship services instead of going to jail or rehab _ a practice some say violates the separation of church and state.

District Judge Michael Caperton, 50, a devout Christian, said his goal is to "help people and their families."

"I don't think there's a church-state issue, because it's not mandatory and I say worship services instead of church," he said.
...
David Friedman, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky, said the option raises "serious constitutional problems."

"The judge is saying that those willing to go to worship services can avoid jail in the same way that those who decline to go cannot," Friedman said. "That strays from government neutrality towards religion."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/31/AR2005053100439.html

church of the buddha smoker.

I could be your missionary to the poor benighted English.

:crazy: The Constitution says nothing about worship services, it only addresses the Church. New GOP spin line...

You can avoid going to jail AND not have to give up my addictions! Lock and load baby, I'm going to Kentucky!

And they wonder why people call if the Twilight Zone at best and redneck heaven at worst. I moved here and now wonder why. With so many brainwashed Christian rednecks who thought Di Vinci Code was real and not fiction, I wonder how this state even formed in the first place.

To join the Pillow Presbyterians or the Mattress Methodists?

TlalocW

Will the minister be acting as an officer of the court? Does he wear a turban and answer to the honorific of 'Mullah'? (ie., it's Tuesday, so this must be Iran?)

:crazy:

That's great! Should be our new national motto!

Church-State Separation... How hard is that to understand anyways? Why don't judges offer more actual court ordered rehab as punishment? I'm all for alternate sentencing in drug/alcohol cases, but why aren't we sending people to get help?

Sending them to listen to a bunch of power hungry preachers isn't going to do a damn thing for them.

Rp

They know that, like water eroding limestine to eventually create
vast caverns, that no one will object to the theocracy if we go there
in small-enough steps with every step seeming "reasonable, who could
object to that?". (See post #14, below.)

This is just one more baby-step along the way.

Tesha

Lots-O-God there...

:evilgrin:

I expect such lunancy from these "activist" Christian judges.

LOL.

or a synagogue. A buddhist temple? A Wiccan council? A Satanic cult meeting?

Or does he just mean Southern Baptist?

The sentence is for 10 days in jail, re-hab or 10 "worship" services...

snip>
William Fortune, a University of Kentucky law professor and counsel to the Ethics Committee of the Kentucky Judiciary, said he has never heard of the type of sentence used by Caperton.

He said the judge's option "deliberately mixes religion into the criminal justice system."

Option is limited
Caperton, a district judge since 1994, has offered the option about 50 times to repeat drug and alcohol offenders in Laurel and Knox counties since earlier this spring.

He has limited it to defendants with misdemeanor public intoxication or drug-possession charges.

It's unclear what effect, if any, attendance at worship services has had on defendants, or how many chose that option, because the first group given the option won't be back in Caperton's court until next month.

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050531/NEWS0104/505310376/1008/NEWS01

have a problem with this.

This totally breaches the wall of separation.
Will I be allowed to meditate, alone, as I so choose?

Completely inappropriate. It sucks sewage.

and no distractions. Don't even need a suit.

worship but with jail you have to show up also--and stay showed up for a given period of time. i realize the constitutional issues here but......

this is a little better than in my day.

Sun Worshipers is about to be established in Kentucky.

Services commence at noon on Sunday.

A kid in my area got six years of Peace Corp. I actually got a good feeling about it. He'll come out a better person, without any doubt.
Now if the church in question was the Stanford Memorial, I'd say fine. Otherwise, stay away from churches.

was forced to resign over this type of obscene filth about 3 years ago.

AA is kind of like church, per my understanding.

I disagree with this judge's policy, however. I think that it is okay for someone to do court ordered volunteer work through a church or temple, or a faith-based organization. I think that if someone is a volunteer through their religious organization, it is a mitigating factor in sentencing for minor crimes. I just don't think it's right to give them the choice of rehab, jail or church. The first two should be what they choose between, although I am suspicious overall of medical treatment of addiction.

How would the judge feel about that? It IS worship, no?

it's the lack of understanding of what drug abuse and addiction truly are

they're not some personality disorder that you can pray away

it's a physical addiction that requires treatment

if someone has done something "bad" enough to appear before a judge, I'm betting that person is an addict and needs treatment

if he specified AA meetings?

After all, that's "treatment", and has Lots-O-God in it...

"Let go, and Let God..."

It's all Hooey, but it works for some folks...

AA is more spiritual and I'm all for that and has a proven track record of success

it talks about a higher power and that can be anything you want it to be--it can be the squirrel that sits on the telephone wire outside your apartment

but I much rather see rehab for these people

He said he couldn't buy into anything he couldn't see and feel, and his sponsor suggested using one of the laws of physics, so he picked Gravity.

Tucker

As far back as Jung and the Oxford Group, psychologists have recognized that religion is one of the few ways to fill the void left by an addiction. In other words, "finding God" is effective at easing the transition off addiction, because many of the same qualities of addiction are mirrored in religion.

This sentencing idea, as far as I can tell, is not much different from court-ordered Alcoholics Anonymous or similar 12-step treatment programs, which require as a first step the acceptance/acknowledgement of a higher being.

many people simply substitute an addiction to church for their addiction to drugs. And it can be just as harmful.

was talking (more) about spirituality than religion. BIG difference. Or, more accurately: religion can include spirituality, but doesn't necessarily and OFTEN precludes it.

FURTHUR, and this is really important, religion itself can become an addiction. See one of my favorite books: When God Becomes A Drug by Father Leo Booth.

You are also way wrong about this (surprise, surprise -- your track record isn't so good so far):

This sentencing idea, as far as I can tell, is not much different from court-ordered Alcoholics Anonymous or similar 12-step treatment programs, which require as a first step the acceptance/acknowledgement of a higher being.

There is NO such absolute requirement in the 12-Step programs, and it's not the First Step in any case:

Step 1
"We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable."


Those who are serious about recovery and sobriety can find ways to still adopt the Twelve Steps even if they are atheists. It just requires some willingness to adapt -- there's PLENTY there in the 12 Steps basides the Higher Power thing, I can assure you.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050531/COLUMNISTS02/505310398/1006/NEWS01

But, you could go to the Unitarian Universalists..they are as good as Pagan. However, the Judge may mandate that Beltaine Holiday is permissable only without birth control contraceptives : )

Whicky Whacky

JOKE. Our system is really losing ground. This is just another example of what hypocrites they are. Lets all smoke some dope and go to church...sounds like fun.
:evilgrin:

I remember when we had to go to Mass every Sunday in Catholic Elementary School. Some of the boys used to bring comic books in and hide them behind their missals.

Is this the kind of praying they are talking about?

to pray to avoid jail time...sounds very religious to me.

imprison the body or imprison the mind

You don't think the masses know a good opiate when they see one?

So, let's IMPEACH the bastard...he's clearly breaking his oath of office.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3756140#3765219
Thread title: “Judge Gives Offenders Option of Church”

If I hadn't seen it too late for voting, I would have gladly put this thread on the Greatest Page.

I view the fact that this sorry episode is being publicized as encouraging. Most people DON'T want a theocracy and are unnerved by these incidents. The publicity is imporant because they need to be reminded that unless something is done, the Bush admin is taking us into theocracy, not to mention fascist dictatorship.

Doesn't he know he's supposed to throw them into a private prison run by some fundie church where they're more or less FORCED to "find" Jaysus? Why does this judge hate America?

If you were a junky, which would you choose?

This guy is so delusional that he's become an enabler.

What a stupid idea!

There are plenty of church-goers who are drug/alcohol abusers. Only a total numbskull would think that attending services somehow precludes a person from criminal, abusive, or self-destructive behavior.

I'm all in favor of convicted drug and alcohol offenders handling poisonous snakes.

Kind of fits the crime, too.

So why couldn't Christian myth be used to wean users off other kinds of drugs?

Sort of like replacing one drug with another, less offensive(?) one; although the ultimate goal of the heroine-turned-methadone user is to kick the habit completely.

Thing is, all this will do is fill the pews with unbelievers. There's no guarantee that anyone will find Jesus in a church. In fact, this ought to be spun as being soft on crime rather than harder on it. Do you go to jail where you could get beaten up, go to rehab where they'll actually make you face your addictions, or go sit for an hour or so in some building on a Sunday and zone out while some preacher blabs from an old book. Maybe you'll luck out and sit next to a lady with an open purse full of all sorts of fun pills you might be able to score if you're subtle enough.

And I for one appreciate a good pun.

I agree with what you're saying:

...go sit for an hour or so in some building on a Sunday and zone out while some preacher blabs from an old book

Come to think of it, I've heard there are plenty of would-be "believers" who'll sit through a required sermon to get at a hot, filling meal supplied by such missions as the Salvation Army.

nt