'Lactivists' Taking Their Cause, and Their Babies, to the Streets

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http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/07/nyregion/07nurse.html

This stuff really irks me. I have no problem if ladies don't have a decent option, but I do believe its rude to breast feed in public just so you can. Breastmilk is the one body fluid that is somewhat acceptable to emit in public, but doing it unneccissarily just seems rude.

Baby's gotta eat... but I will say that's why you bring large towels in your diaper bag.

Personally we use a breast pump in our household just because we believe it's a tad on the rude side to whip your boobs out in public. But if the baby is hungry the baby doesn't care where you are.

Breast feeding is natural and healthy...

natural and healthy but no one is doing this in public. And yes, when someone gotta go...

Comments about pumping breast milk and carrying it in a bottle, or using large towels are good one.

Real Civil Disobedience would be having a PooP-In

LOL :headbang:

just kidding :)

they wouldn't. And I'll be damned if I am going to stay home just because my baby may need to nurse. I'm as discreet as I can be - just turn away. I have been on a plane nursing and the guy next to me said it was less uncomfortable than the blabber mouth he had on the other side of him.

I'm not much of an activist - but I say fight on sisters! This whole squeamishness about bfing goes back to the fifties when pregnancy was kept under a tent.

The problem is, most public places do not provide a comfortable, private area for women to breast feed. So a woman should sit on a toilet stall and feed her baby where people move their bowels and urinate?


:puke:

breast milk and carry it in a bottle so she doesn't breast feed in public? I think you are and others are in this thread are also. I'm amazed that anyone would suggest this.

First, pumping is sometimes painful and difficult. Kudos to all the women who do this so their babies can have breast milk when they are at work. It is difficult and the breast milk has to be kept cold to remain safe.

Second, the expressed milk has to be warmed before many babies will drink it.

Third, you have to delay feeding your crying child while you get the bottle, heat it, and feed your child.

Compare this to picking up your child and discreetly feeding your child the perfect food. No refrigeration, cleaning bottles, heating bottles, or delays. It's what breasts are for.

I would much prefer a breastfeeding mother than to hear a crying baby. That drives me crazy. If it bothers you, then just don't look.

On edit: I forgot to add that both my children refused bottles. They would go for hours while I worked instead of drinking from a bottle. Eventually, the oldest took a bottle but refused to take a bottle from me. The youngest just drank from cups as she got older.

The same people who object to seeing a woman breastfeeding in public usually couldn't care less if they saw a woman wearing a skimpy shirt that showed all her cleavage. YK, I breastfed my kids in public and did it so discreetly that almost nobody ever noticed that I was doing it. And no, I didn't cover up with a blanket - that's like having a big ol' sign over my head saying "hey, breastfeeding over here! don't look!" You might say you've never seen women breastfeeding discreetly in public - and that's exactly the point, they're there, they're doing it, but you're not seeing it because they're doing it discreetly.

Quite frankly I think comparing breastfeeding to the excretion of other bodily fluids is pretty disgusting. It's not the same thing - it's EATING. I've watched some pretty disgusting people eating food from their plates in restaurants, and watching them was so gross I had to look away. Are we going to banish them to eat in the restroom too? It would certainly be a lot more pleasant for me as a fellow patron! The fact that you can say that the exact same breastmilk in a bottle is fine to give to the baby, but breastfeeding is not, suggests to me that it's not about the fact that the fluid is produced by a natural bodily function, but about the fact that breasts are only supposed to be on public display for sexual purposes. But I go back to my point above - it IS possible to breastfeed discreetly, where the only thing you might see is a slight glimpse of skin - certainly far less than you'd see on any teenage girl walking through the mall.

If we can ban men from "hocking loogies" (sp?) - hacking up big disgusting goobers and spitting them on the sidewalk, maybe THEN we would have the society where all bodily fluids have to be expressed in private.

interesting.

Sick, but... interesting. In a sick way.

What, precisely, are you likely to catch because a woman in your vicinity is feeding her child?

Nice upbringing you must have had!!!

I'm not now nor will I ever be a mother but something tells me that it is necessary to feed your baby and where you are when the time comes shouldn't matter.

I can't see anything rude there unless you have negative feelings about breast feeding which a lot of people do but if so I think you should get over it or move on and don't look.

I maybe should have said open and obviously. Aka, strip down to the waste and feed them (I've seen this). I should have said, as the poster below, that it is good to be considerate of others and be discrete.

Newsflash: The 'natural state' of milk isn't encased in cardboard in a dairy case, and some might regard drinking the milk of another species far more gross than doing what mammals do naturally.
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

when they're hungry?

on edit: What is it about female breasts that is so offensive anyway? I rather like mine and I think it should be as legal for me to go topless as it is for a man, whether I am breastfeeding or just laying in the sun.

I personally find man-boobs in public offensive... but that's just me :)


edited for spelling... I just get too excited thinking about boobs to spell correctly I guess LOL

:P

BooBies!!!!! :party: :woohoo: :applause:

It never ceases to amaze me how neurotic Americans are about breasts (the Janet Jackson debacle pretty much ensured your place as the laughing stock in the Western World on the point.) Breastmilk is the healthiest food you can give your babies - that's been proven again and again. American women have little enough maternity leave - at least let the women breastfeed while they can. Too many American children are given crap food because their parents either cannot afford anything else, or do not know enough about nutrition to avoid it. As many of them as possible should at least be given a good start.

Somebody call John Ashcroft so he can throw a $7000 curtain over them!

I concur. Your only two choices are to not nurse at all or to sequester yourself in your home because, no matter how carefully you plan and pump, someday you will be out with no "supplies" with a child literally crying from hunger and you aren't going to deny her sustenance just because you or anyone else is uncomfortable with the sight of a breast being used for a purpose other than to turn someone on.

I do try to be as discrete as possible - I "hide" as much as I can without smothering my kid and I find as quiet and out of the way place as I can, but I will go out because it's important for my mental health and I will breastfeed because it's important for my daughter's physical health, so I will be nursing in public from time to time.

In fact, this weekend I was at a New Orleans style music and food festival and even earned some beads. (All in good natured fun of course.)

Besides, I can guarantee that Ms. Walters would have been much more uncomfortable sitting next to a screaming baby during her flight, as would the rest of the passengers! That nursing mom was doing her a tremendous favor by keeping the baby quiet!

but breastfeeding a baby is not?

More breast is visible in the ad than when a woman breastfeeds, but because it's meant to turn men on and sell a product, it must be okay.

:eyes:

Some people need to get a grip. The breast is dual purpose!

Ladies, your breasts are objects of a SEXUAL nature... not for BABIES... that's DISGUSTING!

:sarcasm:

:banghead:

I had a child in the NICU for 6.5 mo, I HAD to pump for him - he had severe reflux. I remember the nasty stares I used to get from women IN THE LADIES RESTROOM!!! I would try to find a quiet corner, and turn the chair slightly away from those walking in - I even draped a coat over myself... AND STILL I got nasty looks, and people asking me what I was doing, only to make rude faces or responses after I quietly explained.

JEEBUS People!!! We do what we have to do for our children's health and survival - get over it! If I could have breastfed my son - you better believe I would do that in public! Why should I be forced into a dirty, smelly bathroom? If I can eat at the table - so can he!

And for you formula freaks - I'll just add, when my supply dried up and I ran out of my freezer stash - My child's reflux became so severe that he is now orally averse, and has a g-tube for 100% of his feedings (we tried 4 formulas before the tube was required). If only the formula companies told you about that risk!

I know some mothers pump extra to supply babies like yours. :hug: You are a strong woman to face all this.

God these people are so intolerant. Don't look if it's so offensive -- perhaps we should just be like in Afghanistan, so nobody has to GASP get an unintentional glimpse of a nipple.

When you are breastfeeding your body responds to certain clues including the baby's crying and if you ignore it the pressure builds up and it KILLS. I always tried to find an out of the way place and draped....but that was more for my comfort, I tend to be modest, but I don't find it offensive at all.

Doing things that we can do and should be allowed to do without judgment or consequence, and doing these things in public so that others will allow us to do these things without making remarks about how "uncomfortable" they feel about whatever it is that's happening. After all, men used to be "uncomfortable" about female and black citizens voting.

A man urinating in public, whether it's next to his car or "discreetly" hidden in an alley is rude.

A woman breastfeeding her child in a group in public is not "rude," it's an act of protest and nurturing.

and unconstitutional laws deserve to be broken. When men can expose their chests in public but women are not even allowed to breastfeed, we are not giving women equal protection under the law. Anti-breastfeeding laws are anti-woman laws, and they are anti-children laws. Our society is prohibitting children from growing up with a healthy diet because we are afraid of offending our puritan sensibilities. Unjust laws should not be followed, if any woman wants to nurse in public I will defend their right to do so.

Whatever do you think breasts are for? Some grown man to have his jollies on? Babies must be fed every couple of hours (sometimes more often). Are women supposed to be prisoners in their homes until their child is 9 months old? Do you think that it is appropriate to have to stand (because there is no seat except a toilet) in some smelly bathroom with all kinds of germs everywhere.
:wtf:

I find bottle feeding rude. Rude to the baby, rude to the mother. Formula manufacturers do their best to ingrain in the mother that their product is somehow on the same level as what nature intended. Their ads are everywhere in pregnancy and new mother magazines and other literature. This outrages me.

I hear from young pregnant women that they might 'try' breastfeeding to see if it works. "See if it Works????" Women have been nursing since the dawn of time and there are very few women who physiologically 'don't work'. When they have been told countless times by the media and advertising that breastfeeding is somehow primitive or for the lower classes, there tends to be those women for whom breastfeeding 'doesn't work' emotionally.

At my old university, the student council instituted a boycott of Nestle products in 1995 that is still in effect because they were pushing formula on African mothers, telling them it was healthier than breastmilk. Not only did most of these women not have access to clean water, but the instructions on the boxes were written in English and Spanish. How many of these women knew how to read, let alone read those languages? There was also the case not long ago where a number of the formula containers sold actually had wrong instructions. For those of you who do not know it, incorrectly made formula can permanently damage or even kill an infant.

Spitting in public is rude, though incredibly common.

Talking on cell phones in public is incredibly rude, though ridiculously common.

Preaching the Gospel at the top of one's lungs to people looking for some peace and quiet in the local park is rude, though Constitutionally protected.

Feeding one's child in the healthiest, most natural way possible is NOT rude, and it should not be illegal. The conceit that this is rude and shouldn't be seen lacks any semblance of logic.

I'm proud of these women. They are true patriots.

It's the most natural thing on the planet. In most societies throughout history children have been breastfed in public view for years.

Stop looking at a woman's breast as a sexual object during the time a woman is breastfeeding for just a few seconds, reflect on what you're really seeing, and the notion of "rudeness" will evaporate.

The current restrictions on breastfeeding seem to me to be unconstitutional. Afterall men can expose their chests in public even though there is no real reason for doing so, other than perhaps to stay cool in a hot environment. It is illegal on the other hand for women to expose their breasts even if it is for the very necessary act of feeding their child. It is not equal protection under the law, it is discrimination against women.

Does it seem rude to you when other people eat in public?

Honestly...

I breastfed three babies, EVERYWHERE (including while coaching a Christian Youth Volleyball game, and while teaching Sunday school to high school aged-students) and no one saw a blessed thing, nor did they run the risk of my "emitting" my bodily fluid on them.

And no one breastfeeds in public "just so you can." Babies get hungry at odd times.

One other thought - Barbara Walters must have been in first class - those seats are HUGE. What, she couldn't turn away?

breastfeeding can be done quite discreetly, and your discomfort is your problem and shouldn't be the mother's or the baby's.

I mean. While we're turning the toilet into a dining room, let's take care of some real business.

;)

I am amazed at some of the prudish, anti-basic rights responses to this thread. Wow.

Can we include gum crackers, too? Please?

Do you eat feces or drink urine or sweat?

I didn't think so.

It is acceptable to feed one's baby breastmilk in public. It's time to come to grips with the lack of logic of those who believe it should be otherwise.

boys every now and then, than I say go on and nourish thy child.

Seriously I remember this as being so taboo in some areas by some people. This will also help to in the long run demystify the female breasts. Where men can go topless so should the women.

As somebody said, the old towel routine. Women today are much more fortunate in that many restaurants now have a separate lounge area for changing/feeding babies whereby you don't have to sit on the john to give baby their dinner. Been there, done that too.

We did a lot of traveling when my daughter was little and believe me nursing her was a lot easier than lugging around bottles, formula, etc. I put her on my back in a baby sling, packed some diapers, and off I went.

It's a classism thing. Heaven forbid that the wealthy woman stoop to doing what poor women do! Hire a wet nurse! Hire a nanny!

Humanity has a long history of adopting "values" afforded to wealth and privilege, no matter how insane.

that something could be cheaper AND better. Says something powerful about society when we choose a less optimal option and pay for the priveledge.

And to be clear, I know that many very good moms decide to use formula because they can't nurse for either physical or life style reasons - no judgement here at all - my mom had to formula feed me and I turned out OK! - but we still haven't developed a formula that provides all the benefits of breastmilk yet.

For example, did you all know that not only does the composition of breast milk change as your baby grows to better fit her needs, but that it changes throughout the day and even throughout the nursing session? The first 3 to 4 minutes are high carb to quench thirst and quickly satisfy the sharpest hunger, followed by 2 - 3 minutes of high protein (which varies depending on whether your baby is experiencing a growth spirt), ending with a high fat to satisfy your baby until the next feeding. Pretty cool huh? Let's see Gerber do that!

My husband, older daughter, and my baby (daughter 9 months) came down with sever stomach virus. At the time the baby had started solid foods, but was still nursing a little. She had sever diarrhea and could keep nothing down, not even Pedialyte. The doctor said if she couldn't take the Pedialyte, she would have to go into the hospital because she was starting to dehydrate. Against the advice of all my family and this doctor, I nursed her. She was able to keep it down and immediately fell asleep. I contacted a different doctor and the first thing he asked was if I was sick. lol No, I was the only one in the house who wasn't. He told me that I might have antibodies against the virus, and if so, breastfeeding would pass it on to the baby. She nursed like a newborn for a full 24 hours and was fine. In fact, she even gained weight. Was very rough on ME, but it kept her out of the hospital.

was the ONLY one in our house not to get sick. I was amazed I kept it up through being sick - but so glad I did! Nature's wonderdrug!

Breast milk counts as a clear liquid. Many times the pediatricians told me I was lucky I was nursing because I could soothe my baby and calm her stomach at the same time. We have gone through some nasty GI viruses because of daycare, but she always makes a quick recovery.

Breastfeeding rates now are much higher among wealthier, more educated women, and bottlefeeding formula is statistically more common among the lower classes.

It's a lot easier to breastfeed if you're "wealthy" and don't have to work at a job that's breastfeeder unfriendly (or two jobs).

The only time anyone noticed was when I was stuck in the center seat in the center aisle of a wide-body DC-10. Covered up, very careful not to draw attention to myself, but eager to get my baby on the breast BEFORE the plane took off -- since infants don't chew gum, right?
This jerk businessman next to me glances over, sighs loudly, and hits the call button. When the flight attendant came over, he complained -- loudly and long.

She told him he was free to seek a seat on another flight -- and moved me and the kid to 1st class!
Only time I've ever flown 1st class. If I thought it would work again, I'd whip out a tit in a hot second!

and should get a medal!

I even remember her name. Dona -- with one "n". She was senior on that flight (want to say it was Continental, but it might have been United).

Just goes to show -- never back down. Never give in.

descrete about it though. Try to cover, as best you can, the goods.

??

:evilgrin:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Nice. I love being objectified for the sake of men :eyes:
Ladies, feed your babies proudly!
I'd like to give a big FU to the people who get freaked out over breastfeeding.

Seriously. Why?

Do you also insist on the ankle being covered? The face? Why not just swathe women in burkhas and be done with it?

It's just a part of the body, doing its natural function. Get over your weird juvenile preoccupation with it.

I really don't understand why breasts must be covered at all times, I really don't.

All I meant was that it would be respectful to some of your fellow citizens, me included, if it basically weren't on display. Does that make sense? I've seen it in public and it doesn't bother me, however I've see it where the breast is out with baby unattached for quite some time. I guess Mom was waiting to see if baby was going for seconds. That's all I meant, geez. I guess with noting else going on in the news to fight about we get insane about breast feeding.

but ONLY when a baby is using it, insane?

It's not insane. What's insane is the idea that many people in this country have that it's just frickin fine for women to parade down runways with their nipples clearly visibile... it's A-OK to wear tops which show everything but the nipple... that's FINE...

but don't you DARE show that breast if it's for feeding time... that's rude and disgusting!

THAT'S what's insane. NOT our reaction to seeing that mindset supported here on DU.

Or is it because I'm male? Your post comes off as sexist.

Not only that, though, no... context is IMPORTANT.

You WERE the one who referred to our baby-feeding appendages as "the goods", weren't you?

MY post is sexist?

Unfuckingbeliveable...

You already said it was because I am male and used the term "the goods" Talk about getting worked up over nothing. I'm done with you now.

YOU may think it's nothing. But I assure you, it is not.

being used for its purpose?

Baring a breast isn't the least bit offensive to me so maybe I don't understand those who feel it is rude to have a bare breast in public.

We are taught these feelings from early childhood. Other parts of the world teach their people differently. If we had a generation that was not taught what I think is false modesty this would never be an issue.

Breast feeding is not in the same category as urinating of defecating yet some people think it should be. That is what I call rude.

The f*cking insanity is appalling! What the f*ck do these anti-nursing morons think breasts are for? selling brassieres? (Sheesh!)

I think this discussion is sliding a tad off course. The first poster said that they perhaps should have worded their thoughts better... no harm

When you say Mammals... which ones are you referring to?

The ones where the Male sleeps all day and lets the female do all the work?

Or the ones were the Male has a group of females to mate with?

Or the ones who hunt and kill and eat other animals?

If one person thinks it's rude for someone to show breasts in public that is just how they feel... If someone thinks thats natural that's their opinion too.

Lets not bash people or posts into oblivion especially after the post a retraction.

Personally I have no desire to live in the jungle or grassy plains or desert like the rest of the mammals... but I will not judge you for wishing it. :):grouphug:

Strange equivalence inference. Oh ... and when did humans stop killing and eating other animals? I must've missed the news.

Whales and dolphins whould be surprised to learn they're not mammals, I guess ... or are somehow displaced from "the jungle or grassy plains or desert." :shrug:

that was my point... there simply isn't enough space to list all of the characteristics of mammals. I never said nursing an infant is behaving like a savage beast you read what you wanted to read in my post and then incorrectly applied it to your statements/beliefs, I merely pointed out that even though we are mammals.... we choose to modify our behaviors in order to interact together in society.

I'm sorry if my comments upset you... just as I am sure you didn't mean to upset me by obviously not reading my earlier comment on this subject... and post such an emotional rebuttal. I stand by my earlier comments it is possible for people to share different views AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE HASSLED FOR IT

the purpose of my post was a live and let live comment... a behavior not commonly found in mammals btw since most mammals have the capacity to eat other animals.

PS apparently the group hug smiley has no effect on you :) but I value your opinion anyway :grouphug:

"If someone thinks thats natural that's their opinion too."

Of course breastfeeding is natural. Feeding a baby any other way is NOT natural. That's not an opinion, that's biology.

Quote from earlier post in this thread: "Breast feeding is natural and healthy..."

However if you want to get technical...

Drinking breast milk is natural... whatever the medium: through the breast or a bottle is only an opinion as to which way is better. There are those who would demonstrate that feeding directly from the breast builds intimacy between mother and child (I personally believe it does) but I am unaware of any factual evidence to support this... perhaps a web search will later.

But I am not going to tell someone else what to do with their children and neither should you by the way...

I know that you seem to be very close to this issue from your earlier post:

"I find bottle feeding rude. Rude to the baby, rude to the mother. Formula manufacturers do their best to ingrain in the mother that their product is somehow on the same level as what nature intended."

I can respect your opinion to feed straight from the breast but keep in mind that there are children out there who's mothers can not produce enough milk (or at all) I wouldn't think they are being rude to their children if they choose other options.

This thread seems to bring out several posts thinking this discussion is about preventing women from breast feeding in public. I find that to be absurd. I don't think anyone here is saying women must hide themselves in dark places like criminals. But if they are Flame them... and leave me in peace :)


Hell I think oral sex is natural but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if someone sitting next to me on a plane said it made them uncomfortable to watch.. (heh probably jealous)

Some people are uncomfortable with all sorts of things... that doesn't mean there is something wrong with them or with you... that's just the way it goes life is a tad too short to worry about it.

First, Grassy Plains are where we evolved, hence the vertical bi-pedal walking, better to see prey and predator over tall grasses that way. Second, I would prefer to be associated with the many animals that do not show unnecessary cruelty towards their own species, including war(exclude Chimps please, they actually do have wars).

To give a simple description of us, we are a bi-pedal, rather intelligent(debatable), primate(mammalian) species, that also happens to be mostly hairless, except for my dad, he has a natural coat of fur on him. :)

your points are very good... but they still don't make me want to put on a loin cloth and give up my house with air conditioning in favor of rejoining the wild. :)

edit... forgot the smiley

:sarcasm:

:grr:

... my udderly obsessed brethren. Ever since puberty, I've been far more aesthetically-focused on "where the action is." :evilgrin:

WooT BooBies!!!!! I'm reminded of a Rodney Carrington song... let me get a Beer to complete the image :)

But the Rodney Carrington referrence was lost on you

"Titties and Beer" is a very short comedy song by Rodney Carrington a comedian who does cowboy humor... He is actually quite funny but you have to like that sort of thing.

You were making a sarcastic referrence to boobs (possibly within the mindset of Beer drinking sexist men looking forward to the next Budweiser commercial while watching the Man Show) and so I replied to you with one of my own...

No worries... we can't all think before we speak... not even me :)

I suppose I should have looked up the lyrics to your song, rather than expecting something as simple as a sarcasm tag, or even a winky smiley.

Ah well... as you said, we can't all think before we speak. :)

:) I would have figured the accent and the Beer would have given me away... :)

Excuse me, but bottles (of formula, beer, cans of Pepsi, etc) are more likely to create enough volume to cause a "spillage" problem. In spite of how a new mom might feel first thing in the morning, these breasts aren't the Exxon Valdez and able to flood the streets of your city.

It just goes to show how stupid they are. Not about lactation, but they are too stupid to ask the specialists questions about things they know nothing about.

fed the folks on the Exxon Valdez. No matter how often I pumped or fed, the moment my baby or another baby cried, I would be soaked in front if I didn't feed him/her fast. I carried around all sorts of things to soak it up but when mother nature called, or should I say when a child cried, I'd better feed fast. I could have fed triplets or, well you get the idea. Sometimes all it took was looking at a picture of a baby or just thinking of my baby. The possibility of spillage was a constant.

as some sort of natural disaster, like Noah's flood or something. ;) (I produced quite a bit myself. My son weighed 15+ pounds at two months.)

I had to leave a meeting once and go home to change my bra and shirt - I think it was the sound of the dry-erase markers on the board that set me off. Squeak!

Now that is one I've never heard!

I had leakage problems (especially during the newborn stage) but never from a dry erase board.

Ah, nursing war stories.

Unfortunately, from this thread it looks like we're still fighting the battle even though we're no longer personally breastfeeding. :eyes:

cause my breasts started to leak a good mo. before delivery.

but I wouldn't call it spillage. it didn't spill, it soaked.

....and I wouldn't expect my baby to eat in one either.

If you ask me some public restrooms are not even good for people who have to to got the the restroom. Sometimes I would rather use the bushes to pee on


http://beerial.com/gallery21.htm

Breasts are for promoting football games and selling pickup trucks!

:sarcasm:

as we know it, and perhaps little thrones are constructed where they may sit to feed their children for everyone better to see them, what's next on the list of earth-shaking neccessary life-saving changes to force everyone to embrace?



Don't tell me, I can guess.

I smell resentment. Why does it matter to you if these women are engaging in an act of protest by breastfeeding in public?

And as for what's next? Please tell me, because I don't know, and you obviously do.

than anything else so far, eh? imagine a world without missile envy.

They were offended by comments made on a show, and are acting out to show they won't be cowed into submission.

That bothers you... why?

You're an active poster and discourser here at DU - your post is a real surprise to me. What's your problem with what these women have done?

What's your problem, anyway?

And I'm both "victim" and "perpetrator" I guess.

It would be hard for me to see a woman breastfeeding in public and not be slightly repulsed by it. But I realize that this feeling is due to social conditioning. So I would look away and try to remind myself of that.

I think also that part of my personal problem is that I was the oldest sibling, so I have clear memories of my mother breastfeeding my younger siblings, which never bothered me at all......until I saw my dad witnessing it, and his anger reaction. When I asked my mother why dad got angry for her breastfeeding she explained, "He's jealous" That sort of messed up my head. Well, that was probably more personal info than anyone needed to know about me and my family.

babies. personally, I'd slam the door on them and say adios.

babies in public considered that if they're going to choose to be offended by the sight of that normal activity, maybe they should--stop looking? Maybe they should leave the area? It's such a simple solution to their simple problem. It costs no money, requires no law, wastes no airtime, offends no one. Oh, right, I forgot, then they would have to acknowledge that they're the ones with the problem.

Normal Activity, that's the words I was looking for but couldn't come up with. I get so passionate about this subject.

And how. Could all of the people who honestly feel it is worth their time, energy and effort to judge, then express judgments about mothers feeding their children, yes, through their breasts, yes, in public, please GET LIVES? Go judge someone actually doing something wrong. Think for a spell about why you would think public nursing was the same as say--someone beating a man to death because he was gay (something legitimately worth deeming wrong and making illegal)--then get the hell over yourself. Jesus. It's 2005.

Want to make judgments about a woman who breastfeeds her child? Judge your mothers and wives, too, fools.

These hateful bastards were probably propped up with a **gasp** bottle and left in a crib. That way they never learned to attach to anyone, never were gently loved, and hence.....

BECAME REPUBLICANS!

I see how it is, now. Man, that explanation seems so strangely obvious, I can't believe I haven't already written a multi-paragraph treatise on it, myself.

kinda difficult to leave the area, or even to ignore what with seats getting smaller and smaller and for "security reasons" passengers are expected to sit through the flight

and her sick prejudices coping response should have come in. Entirely mental. Easy. Free. Combined with the "not staring" response. Also easy and free.

It's easy to ignore, unless you're somehow incapable of controlling your own thoughts.

need chewing & swallowing to help equalize ear pressure like adults need chewing gum or Scotch.

Babba Wawwa can by damn read a book or take a friggin' nap.

Can you imagine having to breast feed in an airplane toilet?

And how long did Babba have to feel uncomfortable?

10 minutes? 15?

Of course, Babba is one of those women who would feel uncomfortable sitting next to anyone, er, human.

Imagine how uncomfortable the nursing mother must have felt sitting next to Babba.

Don't mind me. Just keeping abreast of the situation.

It would have been more like 40 minutes...but her nursing habits were a tad odd.

I don't recall that she ever needed to nurse on a plane, but she nursed on at least one train and in her share of restaurants and other public places.

If she was flying out of or into DC National Airport, you CANNOT get out of your seat for 30 minutes after takeoff or before landing. As in, if you try, the friendly air marshal will have his gun on you in seconds. I have the world's smallest bladder as well as a nervous stomach, and I always worry that I'll have to choose between pissing myself and being shot.

So in some cases, going to the bathroom (as disgusting as that is) is not even an option.

People didn't say anything, but one time there was this friggin' asshole next to me who kept blatantly leering (he was obviously just inches away). It was so obvious. I was trying to cover as best I could to deny him the satisfaction. I wanted to kick him in the scrotum when I got off the plane.

out in public

than

some hairy fat guy without his shirt on, out in public . . .

Sometimes I want to get myself arrested for toplessness so I can get the stupid sexist laws about boobs overturned.

Hoooray for boobs! And for babies who get fed when they're hungry instead of at the convenience of prudish eyes.

The kind designed to sexually please only heterosexual males. That can tend to cloud your perspective.

I love stories like this. I support what these women did 300%. I wouldn't go into a nasty, germy bathroom to feed a child.

While they're insisting on nursing their child in public, they should know that there is huge pornographic traffic on the internet dealing in covertly taping women nursing babies. They could become this month's 'nipple star' without even knowing it.

Yeah, you should feed the baby when it's hungry, but putting your breasts on display to prove a point can get you more of the wrong kind of attention, especially with someone with a hidden video camera and an internet connection.

potentiality. It's the information age, lots of people, even if they are women with babies who need to nurse, would consider that issue. Their totally reasonable position is, THEY don't care if some people are weirdly interested in watching them breastfeed or choose to interpret their decision to feed their children when the kids need to be fed as "exposing a breast." If the shopping mall people, the grocery store people, the park people or the Internet people care, that's their problem.

Feet. Legs. Arms. Back of the neck. Women in jeans. Women in coats. Gee, I guess anyone could be secretly taping me at any given moment, sure, but it doesn't mean I plan to start wearing a burka. Heck, I'm sure there are men out there who pleasure themselves thinking about women in burkas, too, LOL! We ladies can't win, so we may as well just live our damn lives, know what I mean?

completely, yet the sight of a ankle would be thought of as indecent. Go figure.

saw my nipple (except for my babies) for even a nano second. If you don't want anyone to see your breasts, you don't have to.

:-) It can be confusing on these active threads.

...because there's a huge market out there for foot fetishists. And while we're at it, don't wear skirts that show ankle, because that would be inviting the "wrong kind of attention."

Sorry but my burqa's in the wash...breastmilk stains, ya know.

My local group of moms has a motto when it comes to this: Your hangups are not my problem. (and that's a general "you" not necessarily directed to any one particular poster)

I breast fed three kids and I never had spillage. leakage yes, but it was my shirt the suffered. I breast fed during the early eighties and even my pediatrician was against it. Of course I found out later he had stock in Simulac. His partner was for it so I insisted on my kids seeing him. I never whipped out a breast in public. I used a receiving blanket gently draped over my shoulder. Most people didn't even know what I was doing. What's more embarrassing, a kid eating quietly or a screaming hungry child? I breast fed my kids for two years. I started weaning after a year and let them choose when to stop completely.

and everywhere. This is the custom as it is part of living. I was shocked when I hear how American people view womens breast never should be exposed. Especially when breast feeding babies. I breast feed both my children's back in 70's and I did it anywhere and everywhere and I really didn't give a shit what anyone thought. When my babies were hungry, they were going get feed!

BTW... Barbara Walter can kiss my Asian ass!

what a snooty woman she is

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Why should breasts be so taboo? Men can go topless, why shouldn't women be able to?

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People eat in public all the time. Should we have special rooms for that? Maybe just for people who chew with their mouths open which is pretty gross, IMHO.

Or how about breathing? That's natural. Should I only do that in designated areas?

This is about people who have a warped perspective on breasts and babies. And that's kind of sad.

For the record, I don't have kids and I don't plan to. But if I do, I will feed them when they are hungry.

to have them. That doesn't mean I find it any less offensive that people are trying to stigmatize women who do and need to feed them in the healthy way, when the poor creatures need to eat. The attitude that breastfeeding, even if it is in public, is wrong or dirty, is archaic, anti-woman and anti-family. There are few things more offensive to me than that.

"breasts as sex organs" mentality.

It's like, so 7th grade ;)

breasts as sex organs, as well as the nursing mothers - once they return to sexual relations with their partners.

How many of the outrage nursing mothers here have worn clothes to enhance their breasts - when they were not lactating? How many would be offended if their partners stopped fondling their breasts during intimate love making, claiming that "it is for feeding?"

You have to be honest and to agree the dual function of the human breast and to accept the fact that for many, breasts - covered or naked - are first a sex organ. And for nursing mothers to start breast feeding their babies as an act of defiance instead of as an act of nurturing - well, I don't think that they are going to change anyone's mind.

And baba wawa, like anyone else, has a right to express her opinion.

It is not the child's fault that so many people are deluded about that, and the child should not be the one to pay the price.

I believe the responsibility lies on the people who have a distorted sense of the purpose of breasts. They can look away, or leave, or just stay home if they are so offended by things.

Of course Barbara Walters has the right to express her opinion, just as these mothers have the right to express theirs.

On edit: See, Barbara is on TV, so her opinion reaches lots of people. For these mothers, they have to do something a little more extreme to get their opinion heard. It worked!:)

She seems to want to show her rack off.

But the people eating in dining rooms aren't sucking the food out of their mothers.

Me, personally, I don't care if you breastfeed in public or not. I'm not paying that much attention to you.

But this is about respecting the rights of everyone WHOSE NOT YOU. If you are in a restaurant, and the manager comes up and asks you to please breastfeed somewhere else, it's not because he hates breasts.

It's because he has an entire dining room of people to think about and NOT JUST YOU.

Even if just one person in that restaurant is offended, it is still your duty to respect that person's wishes. Because you're in PUBLIC. Do whatever you want in the privacy of your own home, but once you step through that restaurant's front door, it's not about you anymore.

Still :nopity:

Your arguments make no sense. I can't even refute them because they are so illogical.

I'll finish with this thought - if someone doesn't like to see breastfeeding, they should look away, because it isn't about THEM, it is about a BABY NEEDING TO EAT. And as another poster pointed out, why the hell should a baby have to eat in a bathroom? Would YOU eat in a bathroom? YUCK!

:shrug:

women have the right to breastfeed anywhere they are allowed to take a baby.

AFAIK, no law gives anyone the "right" to breastfeeding-free restaurants, airplanes, or any other public place.

more thoughtful of other people if I let my baby scream hysterically with hunger in public. :eyes:

Mothers and babies are connected in ways far beyond the umbilical. After 9 mos. give or take, of experiencing life inside the womb, being on the 'outside' does not remove the intimate connection they share. When the mother eats (nourishing herself) she in turn is preparing a 'home cooked' meal for her offspring. It is natural, and expected, imo, for that child to feel hunger appropriately at that time. Or at anytime for that matter, since babies only eat small servings which is providing the energy needed to fuel the one of the largest growth spurts they experience. What a beautiful symbiotic relationship.

The issue isn't about 'you' or 'them' adults. It's about babies, nourishment and providing. Children of any age in any part of the world should never be hungry.


dp

That's wonderful and echoes my sentiments on the subject entirely.

How totally ridiculous.

Being a new mom is one of the hardest things you can ever do. People who want to make it harder -- more isolating, more paranoid -- are clueless about it. Having the freedom to breastfeed my child anywhere helped made up for the stress of living on constantly interrupted sleep and 100% focused-on-a-new-life-vigilance, because it let me feel a little bit free to relax and know I could handle being out without worrying over bottle sanitation, spoiled milk, or running out, and it is an easy way to comfort an upset baby.

instead of at some woman feeding her child? Most of the women I've seen nursing in restaurants do so very discreetly. Their goal is to get some chow in the kid ASAP so they can eat their food in peace. It's not like they're pole dancing.

Perhaps defiant1 thinks women have to whip down their jeans and underwear to nurse!

:rofl:

People keep coming up with that "breastfeeding/breastmilk is just like defecation and urination" analogy--sorry, but this is really sick and totally off base.

Defecation and urination are waste materials. Every human society--probably every semi-advanced animal species--avoids them. The smell of defecation is universally offensive, and probably for good evolutionary reasons. Exposure to feces is dangerous and can spread all kinds of diseases--even feces from healthy people. Raw sewage in underdeveloped countries is a major source of disease.

Breastmilk is FOOD. FOOD, folks, NOT waste, not filth.

It doesn't smell bad. It is not unhealthy. IT IS NOT COMPARABLE TO FECES AND URINE.

I spent 10 years of my life nursing babies, and even more time around other nursing mothers. In that time I never saw one woman strip to the waist to nurse. This sounds like someone's sick fantasy.

If I want to rearrange my life so that nobody can ever catch something they shouldn't on a hidden cam, I guess I should never wear a skirt, never lean forward when I'm wearing a tank top, never wear high heeled shoes. The poster above was right--I'd just have to wear a burka.

is just nonsense. And that special room where a nursing mother can go is usually a restroom. I would certainly object to taking my meals in a toilet and I would certainly not feed my baby in one. Breastfeeding an infant is the most natural thing in the world. If someone has a problem with a woman nursing her baby, it is their problem. Why society, in general, has relegated a woman's breast to the status of a mere sexual object is beyond me. We are classed among the mammals bacause of our mammary glands, meaning that we feed our offspring with milk produced by our own bodies.

They're gross, dirty, and discusting.

Feces is dirty and carries germs, that is why people are trained at a very young age to wash their hands after using the bathroom.

You cannot compare a baby or young child getting nourishment with defecating in public. If you really don't get that, I'm sorry.

Debbi

That's all that was going on. Breast feeding is not about mom's need to rid herself of toxic substances (fecal matter and urine) for disposal somewhere, it is about baby's need for nourishment (that just happens to be provided by directly by mom in the manner for which our bodies were designed). If it was acceptable for Ms. Walters, or anyone else on the plane for that matter, to consume anything while seated in the cabin it was likewise acceptable for baby to do so, and has nothing to do with mom's laziness or selfishness.

Before you call bunch women protesting to show their support of breast feeding a moron, you should re-examined the cause why they're protesting instead of calling them a name. Barbara Walkers is the MORON here, not the protester! You should be SHAMED!!!

You wrote exactly what I was thinking re: who the moron is.

:thumbsup:

Barbara Walters expressing HER OWN DAMN OPINION about sitting next to women who breastfeed.

So 200 women get a goddamn giant bee in their collective bonnet and rush into the streets to "protest".

Protest what?? Her opinion??

Morons.

Let me tell you, that nursing job is not an easy one, nor is it some marvelously sexual experience. It can hurt, it can be a real drag for a lot of reasons, and yet we Mom's do it because we love our babies and want them to have what is medically proven to be the best possible food.

It is really a big insult to have some sow like Baba Wawa sitting all prim and proper on a TV show talking about how offended she was that some woman fed her kid on a flight. Jeesh--you'd think she'd be happy the kid wasn't left crying, and you'd THINK that she'd be happy that at least ONE person got a decent meal on what passes for commercial airline travel.

Instead she has to talk about how it made her "Uncomfortable"? Let's put HER as in a stall someplace in a bathroom with a kid clamped on HER boob and let's see how "uncomfortable" she is.

It isn't like that Mom was sitting there masturbating herself to some thundering climax--she was FEEDING her kid. There IS no sexual element to this at all. It is based on baby nutrition. PERIOD.

Material Girl is well past the age of nursing, but I can damn well tell you that had Baba or any other TV sow been flapping her gums about public BF I'd have been there nursing away too.

Gawd save me from dirty minded men and TV sows.



Laura

Otherwise you would know that feed-ins are somewhat common. While I must admit to becoming very annoyed at the lactation nazis when I was preparing to give birth and just after (I mean the lactation consultants who go too far and make you feel guilty if you express rather than nipple feed) I have to say that reading such strong opposition to breastfeeding here at DU of all places makes me angrier. If you feel "funny" seeing a woman breastfeed, take a moment to consider that it may be that you have a problem that is improper to impose on a stranger. I know there are posters here who have said as much, for which I am thankful. As for the others, please take a moment after your initial feeling of disgust to think about why you feel disgusted. Perhaps you can work though the issue, and that "funny" feeling will go away. After all, it's not like you are assaulted by breastfeeding everywhere you go, nu?

when I was nursing - it might have been nice to create a wall between me and folks determined to undermine my breastfeeding (see my response to the post you are responded to). They weren't malicious (except the night nurse in the nursery - who was later fired), they just bought into all of the myths perpetuated for the last 50 years about nursing being second class feeding.

How interesting/sad that I had the opposite experience: I was told that if I had the temerity to pump and have my stay at home spouse bottle feed my own milk to my child, that I was being a bad parent.

were deprived of being breastfed because of being taught that formula was better, only lower class women breastfed, it wasn't polite, etc.?

Breastfeeding is still, for the most part, viewed as a quaint oddity rather than the standard means of feeding our children because of the damage done in the lost generations (50s-80s), and because when breastfeeding was done after the 50s it was done mostly in private as if it were shameful, so our daughters have no models for the healthy and central role breastfeeding can play in a child's life

When my daughter was born I had to fight the hospitals (one of which insisted that my daughter could not room with me to be fed on demand unless I agreed to stay awake 24 hours a day, and a second of which screamed at and hit children to wake them for midnight feedings, and when I finally agreed they could wake my child who preferred to sleep through the night likely did the same to her, and which ultimately insisted I feed her bottled water by scaring me with the concern that she was losing weight - which I later learned is universal for newborns), my mother (who tried to breastfeed me and failed - and was convinced that it wouldn't work), and the lactation aid (who insisted I was sitting incorrectly and my daughter would shred my nipples - which never happened in 18 months of breastfeeding in virtually the same "bad" position)

Barbara Walters is a public person, making a public statement, regardless of whether it is her personal opinion or not. Statements like Barbara Walters perpetuate the harmful myth that breastfeeding is somehow shameful, and such statements need to be countered with something that has an equivalent impact to what she is able to command because of who she is and the position she holds.

This may be news to you, but that is in fact what breasts are for... and despite your attempt to characterize a nursing baby as akin to urinating or defacating, it's not the same thing at all.

Mothers have the right to feed their infants. If MORANS like Barbara want to shoot their ignorant mouths off on national TV, they should not be surprised to get called on that ignorance, by more women than you'd like to think.

Sickening... disgusting... willful, wanton ignorance ...

but I guess Republicans are ok with that.

I'll take lactating women--yes, nursing away, right in front of me (oh, my LAWD) over ANY image of Bush any day. Bush: Now we're talking obscene.

Your argument will go just that teensy bit further if you spell the effing word right! Not that it would sway me - I breastfed my child until I dried up. Living near San Francisco meant I had no trouble along those lines anyway.

All this talk about eating is making me hungry.

See the boobs are always in front


http://www.blogwood.com/archives/2004_05.html

FOR GOD'S SAKE, COVER THAT THING BEFORE SOMEBODY GETS HURT!

:eyes:

Damn it, I saw metal statue boobs. I need 911 now!!

For many years, the push in America was to try to convince everyone to bottlefeed their babies. It sells formula for Nestle, and one wouldn't want saggy old mommy boobies, would one? because after all, boobies are for men to admire, not to feed babies. Those generations that grew up bottlefed grew up with this obsession with boobies. They didn't get their boobie fix as babies, so they never get over it. They fixate on breasts to the point of fetish. I think that's where the whole thing with wanting big boobies comes from - they're looking for the same proportions it would have been as an infant - they want to find boobies bigger than their head.

Other cultures didn't go wholesale to bottlefeeding the way the American culture did for a time, and none of those cultures have either the weird-ass hangups about public breastfeeding that we do, or the fetishization of enormous breasts. It's damned near a pathology in this culture.

Folks, mammary glands are meant to provide food for infants. In most cultures, feeding an infant when it's hungry is considered a perfectly normal thing to do. It goes to show you how screwed up we really are that the topic is even debated.

- I was one of those born within the generations where babies were bottlefed. My mom was bottlefed. My grandfather was bottlefed as I've got a photo ca 1905 of him with a black nippled baby bottle.

BUT, I was the generation that broke out of it. I nursed all my children and even pumped milk for kids in the ICN while one of my children was hospitalized after birth. I've probably fed 20-30 children with my breast milk!

Someone, somewhere has to break out of the bottlefed generations. It just takes some education and common sense.

just that that's one of the places where we went awry. Not everyone who was bottlefed developed a paraphilia for gigantic breasts, either. I just think that's one of the reasons it's so widespread in this society, the fascination with breasts and the insistence that they be kept shielded.

I think the fact that even though the number of women who breastfeed their newborns is increasing, few are still nursed a few months later is also part of the reason the infant mortality rate is so abysmally low in the US.

It's weird to me that the US is such a puritanical society that people get uptight about breastfeeding or seeing nudity on TV for that matter, but half-naked women are used in ads to sell everything from motor oil to toothpaste. It's weird that we're collectively so uptight about some things, but not at all about others. Using women's half-naked bodies in a sexual context to promote products is just fine...women exhibiting their own bodies in a natural, non-sexual way (whether in discreet breastfeeding or lying topless on a beach) gets people all upset. Weird.

After all, let's face the reality that the tongue in today's society is a multi-purpose organ used for eating, talking AND sex. So it's rude not to hide your tongue while eating. It would be inconsiderate to those who might be offended at the sexual nature of your tongue for you not to cover your head in a blanket while you're eating. Thanks.

Good one. :thumbsup:

Personally I think there's little sweeter than the sight of a mother nursing her child. I remember those days fondly.

I think women of a certain generation are uncomfortable because they were actively dissuaded from nursing themselves. (My mom was a maverick and insisted on it, over doctor's objections.) So they're just plain uncomfortable, and I think perhaps a touch guilty that they didn't do this themselves?

But that ought to be their problem, not a mother's or a baby's.

It's amazing what them there Puritan ideas hath wrought in time.

nothing

:scared:

I applaud the "lactivists!!"

It always pissed me off that breasts were bared on all the corner newsstands, but I was expected to feed my baby in bathrooms!

Hello -- this is what breasts are for, despite our culture's fetish about them!! In some cultures, women wear burkas or veils to keep other people from feeling "uncomfortable" about seeing their bodies, hair, face, etc... Let's get past that already.

I just find it useful sometimes, as a guy, to shut the hell up and listen to what women have to put up with in this paternalistic society.

Ya know... like guys pontificating on abortion. At some level, it's equivalent to nails on a chalkboard.

BTW - I'm pro breastfeeding in public.

Just waiting for the rest of America to grow-the-fuck-up!!!

:hi:

I understood and appreciated it -- I was just riffing on your subject line.

And I agree, there are some things men should just stfu about, at least outside the privacy of their discussions with women they're close to.

(The sight of men in suits holding forth on MY body in Congress just makes me scream!!)

And women, too, need to get over these things, so to speak. There are cultures in which breasts aren't seen as sex objects! I've often felt it unfair that on hot days, men can take off their shirts, but if I did the same I'd be arrested. All because some unnecessary big-deal is attached to breasts by other people.

I also hate it when images of women's bodies are called "filth" and "dirty."

So I agree with you -- we need to push the boundaries and get people to "grow the fuck up!" :hi:

the girl I think the world of...

Has smaller breasts than I have.

Now she and I get along just fine, but...

I still get to take my shirt off in public...

For her, not so much...

:wtf:

THAT shows me just how Sexualized breasts have become!

No???

:shrug:

my ass...

i prefer a nursing mother vs a crying child anytime. and topless women are lying around at the riverbeach, of course earning an extra glance or ten (we're not past that entirely here too) but hey...there goes no day on DU where i'm not glad i'm not living in USSA.

It's such a non-issue...just do it.

Discussion has run it's course.