'Safe' drug link to heart attacks....( ibuprofen)

'Safe' drug link to heart attacks
Millions face painkiller dilemma

Sarah Boseley, health editor
Friday June 10, 2005

Guardian

Nine million people with arthritis were yesterday left in a dilemma as ibuprofen, a painkiller which has long been considered one of the safest drugs on the market, was linked with heart attacks.
The news will dismay those who depend on drugs to reduce the stiffening in joints, alleviate the pain and allow them to lead a normal life.

The question mark over ibuprofen, of which Nurofen is one of the best known brands, and the other less well-known non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS) follows on the heels of the crisis over a newer class of medicines used for the same purpose.

The drug company Merck took its best-selling Vioxx off the market after trials showed it, too, was linked with heart attacks. A whole class of drugs, known as the Cox2 inhibitors, is now under investigation.

The biggest support group for people with arthritis made a heartfelt plea yesterday for doctors to advise them on what they should do.

"Medicine is an important element in the treatment for the vast majority of people with arthritis. There is now much confusion and worry over the risks associated with many of the medicines used for arthritis," said Neil Betteridge, chief executive of Arthritis Care.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5212634-105965,00.html

Come on...they want everyone to stop using a cheap drug and buy some new fangled drug from the drug companies.

NONE of the information is from a controlled study. ALL the information is ANNECDOTAL from patients memories.

"You had a heart attack, did you take Ibuprofin?" "Yes I did."

That sort of thing. No one knows how many pills, how frequently, etc.

I could make the same claim linking drinking of water. There's a LOT more study - CONTROLLED study - that needs to be undertaken before any conclusions can be reached.

someone off?

The FDA isn't even mentioned in the article, which derives from a British newspaper.

:shrug:

Ohhhh... I know. Pot.

:evilgrin:

Shhhhhhhh...!!!

Don't tell anyone, but I haven't been anywhere near the stuff in decades. I'm too chicken to risk it and don't want to end up the size of a whale because of the "munchie" effect. I'm just occasionally tempted as an act of pure defiance because I hate these miserable bastards with a burning passion.

:D

This whole obscene prohibition thing is a huge scam for two things: Money and Control. BigPharma and the DEA (who don't want to lose those lucrative property confiscations!) for the money -- and another nail in the coffin of personal liberty by the fascists who want complete control and an easy excuse to jail whoever they want whenever they want.

:hide:

:D

it but ya can still go to jail:-(

n/t

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

works great.

I had a doctor prescribe that to me, it was cheap and effective, until you try to come off of it..

I'd advise you to get off it in NOW and I will tell you how I did it if you want it, it took me three to four months and it was excruciating..

It's actually WORSE than Heroin.. (I don't know that from personal experience, only the hell I went through getting away from the methadone toxin)

I tried to quit it cold turkey and thought at first I had the flu for about 12 hours (and this was at a very low dosage) THEN I started throwing up so hard (worse than any drinking and I've partied a lot in the good old days) that I blew blood vessels in my eyes, and I thought I was going to have a stroke or blow a vein in the brain, then came all the other hellish effects..

You'll find out if you run out of the stuff and can't get any for a bit, like when you travel or if it gets lost, etc..

Just my advice, but that's one monkey you really don't want on your back - I've got arthritis of the spine and several injuries so I've been taking pain meds (and tried them all) since 1995 and I can tell you the very WORST drug is methadone - I sincerely believe it should be taken off the market for pain use, only for heroin users so they can function..

I got bone aches all over, skin on fire, insomnia, hot flashes, mood swings, nausea, etc and had to cut my dosage by tiny increments for months to get off it, it was a nightmare that I don't wish on anyone.

If you want some advice on how to get off that stuff PM me and I'll tell you how I did it, and it takes a HUGE amount of will power to boot - I'm pretty proud for having done it, some clinics exist that charge 3 grand a whack to get people off of Methadone.

That stuff was literally invented by the Nazis in case you didn't know :)

I've never been so pissed at a doctor in my life, it was totally irresponsible to hand that stuff over to me without telling me of the HELL it takes to get off it.. I've walked away from other pain meds feeling flu-ish and down, but bounced right back quick..

I think it was one of the worst episodes in my life and I've been to hell and back three or four times :)

I hope you're not taking much of it, because it's also easy to keep upping the dosage, and the higher the dosage the harder it is to ever get off that stuff..

As a Pain Person I know what you are feeling and you have my sympathy, but man oh man, I wish someone had warned me about that poison!

According to the scare buzz of MSM, ibuprofen and other NonSteroidal AntiInflammatory Drugs (or NSAIDS) like Vioxx, are practically arsenic. The actual risk is tiny - far far far less risky to your health than riding around in your car. Like less than a thousandth of the risk over your lifetime. I hardly think the ban-the-NSAIDs crowd is also discontinuing riding in cars. But that would be a logical action, based on the actual risk.

Here's another example. Several runners died recently from water-induced hyponatremia. In other words, they died of water poisoning, from drinking too much water.

Should we ban water?

The incidence of heart damage due to ibuprofen, on a per-user basis, is less than the incidence of hyponatremia due to running and then drinking water.

Without a sense of perspective, the whole world seems like a ticking time bomb.

Peace.

But I get your water analogy.

I just don't think people are doing a very good job of managing the planet.

to manger ourselves through diet & exercise.

to ban water. Thanks for the heads up!!

Actually, with the "clean water initiative" or whatever doublespeak they use to identify relaxing the mercury and other pollutant levels in our drinking water, banning the stuff might not be a bad idea.

One can die from it in so many ways. It should be banned immeadiately.

.. really right to describe it that way.

Nor has I seed the corporate media describe ibuprofen as "practically arsenic," and in fact it's a description I is fairly sure I won't never see from the corporate media.

So, somehow, I is havin some doubts about the reliability of yer claim: "The incidence of heart damage due to ibuprofen, on a per-user basis, is less than the incidence of hyponatremia due to running and then drinking water."

Yer sayin it don't make it so one way or tother -- ya ain't provided no evidence, far as I can see ...

Like I'm going to do your homework for the sake of my opinions? What's next, tuck you in and kiss you on the forehead? :-)

Ok, grumble grumble, I see your point, it's true that me saying so one way or the other doesn't prove anything...but I'm not trying to prove anything. Just saying my piece.

Check my past posts, I offer citations when presenting facts, or when making reasoned analyses, but not when I'm just spouting for recreation and conversation. Otherwise I'd still be under a hundred posts.

(BTW - I just did a search: you don't include citations or evidence in many of your posts either! What say ye?????)

Anyway, back on my planet, we call illness or death caused by drinking too much water after exertion water poisoning. To be technical, hyponatremia literally means "too little salt in the blood" or, to be really technical, too much water in the blood diluting what salt is there.

If you drink too much alcohol and die, we call that alcohol poisoning, although the technical name is acute ethanol toxicity. Kind of like calling the same plant a sunflower or a helianthus annuus, if you know what I mean.

Now, one more thing, I didn't quote the MSM as actually saying that NSAIDs were practically arsenic - someone else, ahem, put the quotes around that phrase. I said that, according to the MSM scare buzz, one might think NSAIDs are practically arsenic. Do I really have to explain this use of a rhetorical figure of speech to you? (No, I know I don't.)

I should, however, have been more careful when comparing NSAID death rates to hyponatremia rates in runners. I said runners generally, when I meant long-distance runners, after running a long distance.

I do have the stats, btw...compiled them awhile ago for a conditioning routine at the gym...but it would seem a bit less than sporting to just dish them to you at this point. I have a better idea: you find some stats that disprove what I said.

I say my stats can beat your stats. Have at it!

:-)

Peace.

PostScript: At the risk of stating the obvious, I've meant this post to be good-natured. I've seen other posts you've made, Struggle4, and they're almost always excellent.

.. up to others to disprove it.

But I'm thinkin that if ya got any stats at all, they ain't near to showin yer original claim, and I gotta wonder (fer example) if in yer detailed epidemiological data ya is countin ibuprofen-induced natremia as black mark agin ibuprofen. But then agin, I'm sorta doubtin that there's any stats out there that's really good fer the comparison you wants to make.

Course, I cain't keep ya from callin this condition "water poisonin" but since we is almost entirely water, water really cain't be a "poison" in any regular sense of the world -- the whole system depends on the ubiquity of this polar solvent. And since natremia can occur without a person havin more than the usual amount of water in the system, the idea that natremia is from "too much water" just ain't really right. Medical folk don't hardly never use the term cuz it ain't helpful in thinkin right about neither what the problem is nor hows to treat it.

Have been taking Ibuprofen for a week now for a severe muscle strain in my arm. The ibu and the muscle relaxant kept me from going over the edge. Now, reading this "news" had me in a WTF state of suspended disbelief.

I think you're right, Psephos. It's another sci-news set to prove only one group's findings. And now, you relate a story about too much water, and I've been putting away about 32 oz. a day lately...

Ban Bush, Not Water!

a natural muscle relaxant, and calcium and magnesium helps as well.

I can't add anything. I'd just repeat your points.

Salud.

upon health care. How much time do health care professionals have to spend discussing skewed media reports of single studies with patients, rather than discussing the most important aspects of the individual's care?

It would be interesting to note.

I got it in a vet's office years ago when I mentioned my earache. Everyone I've recommended it to thinks it's the greatest thing since aspirin. Problem is, it's getting harder to find, go figure.

Ketoprofen is the generic name, Orudis is the brand name. When my back hurts, I take two and that's all I need for the rest of the day. BTW, it isn't cheap but it isn't overly expensive, either. I just hope they don't find something wrong with this stuff, too. x(

edit: I just checked some online info. Pregnant and nursing women are NOT to take ketoprofen. Also people known to have allergic reactions to aspirin, ibuprofen.

n/t

...that's Ibuprophen.

I agree with thos above who say this is scaremongering (maybe trying to get people to change to something whos' patent hasn't expired? - or am i just being cynical??)

note the sentence near the end -

"For every 1,005 people over 65 taking ibuprofen, they say, one will have a heart attack."

Erm, how many people over 65 NOT taking Ibuprophen will have a heart attack? Quite a lot. So now you see that the additional risk is minimal.

Learning how to accurately read Pharma press releases is a big part of staying sane in the modern world...

:hi:

...i just chime in when i'm feeling extra feisty... :)

I have heard Wallgreens may still carry it...otherwise I'm at a loss (it is still prescribed I believe).

I take less and it does not upset my stomach.

But, you are correct, I cannot find it at my local drug store or grocery store anymore. Had to go back to Ibuprofen which I don't like as much (have to take a higher dose and it upsets my stomach too easy).

If anyone knows of a drug store that still carries Ketoprofen please let me know.

Debi

...abetes?

Yes, that's right, "heart healthy" oils like Wesson, corn, soy, (Crisco, Cool-Whip) even health food store oils like canola--everything but peanut, avocado and VIRGIN olive oil.

And they KNEW this, in the 1930's, just as the industrialized "food" companies began to push us away from those "ugly" saturated fats.

The thing is, they changed the way we raised our beef--beef, butter and dairy used to be FULL of omega-3 fats. Feeding them corn and soy made them full of omega-6 instead.

I have found Irish butter, grassfed cheese and beef. Or you can add anchovies or sardines to your diet. And COCONUT OIL is a "functional food," a healthy saturated fat that actually HEALS the cells so that they can again open to the rejected insulin. VCO heals diabetes in a whole list of ways. Just put "coconut diabetes" into Google for more info.

I am so SO angry today. My dear friend and church member will be buried tomorrow, after fighting to come home to die, and suffering MUCH at the hands of IGNORANT DOCTORS!!!!

You've taught me some things today. Thank you! :)

With regard to healthy oils, I've been buying hemp seed oil at the health food store and using it on a regular basis. It, too, is full of omega 3 -- and fortunately, A$$croft failed in his effort to ban hemp seed food products here.

My ex-wife, the Queen of Over-the-Top Behavior, used to figure that if 2 every 6 hours was good, then 6 every 2 hours would be better.

AFAIK, it hasn't killed her yet...

dammit.