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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 10:56 PM
Original message
Poll reflects partisan viewing (46 percent had a "very positive" reaction)
<<SNIP>>
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/28/poll.bush.speech.iraq/

Poll reflects partisan viewing
Less than half of speech watchers choose 'very positive' response

Tuesday, June 28, 2005; Posted: 11:38 p.m. EDT (03:38 GMT)


According to Tuesday night's poll, 46 percent of those who watched the speech reacted very positively.

That compares to 67 percent of poll respondents who answered the same way to the president's "mission accomplished" speech May 1, 2003 -- two months after the war began.

That was the speech -- delivered under a banner reading "Mission Accomplished" on the deck of the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln -- in which Bush declared, "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

Since that speech, 1,601 U.S. troops have died, according to the Pentagon, and as of Tuesday the overall total stood at 1,741.

Tuesday night's CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll surveyed 323 adults immediately after the speech.

<</SNIP>>
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. 323 people were surveyed? That's a horribly SMALL number.
Edited on Tue Jun-28-05 11:00 PM by Roland99
But, Holy Crap! Look at the breakdown!


The poll sample was 50 percent Republican, 23 percent Democratic and 27 percent independent, and the margin of error was plus or minus 6 percentage points.

50% were Republican and still only 46% of all surveyed had a positive response?
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Right!
And how many of those people know we're building 17 military bases in Iraq? I don't care what today and tomorrow's polls say. Give it a few weeks and his numbers will drop like turds in the bowl.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Well, and who's going to watch?
323 people surveyed, 162 of them Republicans. Quelle suprise.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. They called before the speech and had 1000 who were SUPPOSED
to watch but when they called back AFTER the speech only 1/3 of the people actually DID watch - and obviously it was more Republicans then Indys or Dems.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Is that what happened or did they just make 1000 calls afterward
and get 323 that did watch?
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. That is what they reported last night when they gave the poll numbers.
Edited on Wed Jun-29-05 09:02 AM by Pirate Smile
They were rather defensive because the numbers got screwed up because people who said they would watch didn't.

edit to add - Who can really blame the many Democrats and Independents who probably decided they didn't want to listen to more lies.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. heh heh...a little slap in the face to the Conservative News Network
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. I just posted an article/editorial by Zogby on how the numbers
are so bad for Bush with Dems and Independents.

John Zogby: The Lost Center

To paraphrase William Shakespeare, “Now is the summer of our discontent.” Nowhere is this more apparent than in the latest Zogby International poll (conducted June 20-22) which finds George W. Bush at the lowest ebb of his presidency. The president’s job approval rating stands at an abysmal 44 percent. The disapproval is across the board: nearly two-thirds of all respondents dislike Bush’s handling of the Iraq War, jobs and the economy, education, the environment, and Social Security and Medicare. Moreover, on Bush’s two signature issues–the war on terror and taxes–his performance has wandered into negative territory: 50 percent disapprove of his management of terrorism; 62 percent dislike his tax policies.

In many ways, this season of discontent resembles 1992, when voters turned on another President Bush. That year, 69 percent said the country was “worse off” under the forty-first president’s economic stewardship than it had been during the Reagan years. But the more apt comparison may not be 1992, but the period immediately following World War Two. Back then, the returning veterans rejected ideological dreamers and wanted a strong dose of realism in their leaders. The veterans who entered politics -- best represented by John F. Kennedy and Richard M. Nixon, both of whom won House seats in 1946 -- were moderate and pragmatic. Nixon, for example, ran on a platform of “practical liberalism” as the “antidote New Deal idealism.” Both men captured the “Vital Center,” a phrase coined by historian Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. to describe the emergence of an era where winners extolled their management skills and downplayed any ideological predilections. The late CBS News commentator Eric Severeid once described Nixon and Kennedy as sharp, ambitious, opportunistic, but devoid of strong convictions -- unlike the young men of Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal who “dreamt beautiful and foolish dreams about the perfectibility of man, cheered Roosevelt, and adored the poor.”

The present disillusionment is ushering in another new era of political realism. The seeds were sown in 2004, when moderates and independents voted for John F. Kerry over George W. Bush. Moderates backed Kerry by a margin of 54 percent to 45 percent, while independents voted for the Democratic candidate by a much smaller but still significant 49 percent to 48 percent margin. While Bush won–thanks to overwhelming GOP support (93 percent) and strong backing from white evangelicals (78 percent)–his poor showing among moderates and independents was a sure sign of trouble ahead. And the troubles have come. Today, only a third of independents and moderates would back Bush in a rerun of the 2004 presidential election. Iraq is a primary source of their discontent: 70 percent of moderates and 68 percent of independents dislike Bush’s handling of the war, and 63 percent of both groups say the war was not worth the cost in American lives.

But the political center’s disenchantment with Bush is not confined to Iraq. On issue after issue, moderate and independent discontent exceeds the national figures. For example, while 61 percent of all Americans disapprove of Bush’s handling of Iraq, among independents and moderates, those figures rise to 68 percent and 70 percent respectively. Similarly, when asked about foreign policy, 61 percent of all respondents disapprove. But 73 percent of independents and 70 percent of moderates dislike the president’s foreign policy management. Likewise on jobs and the economy, Social Security and Medicare, education, the environment, and taxes, large majorities of independents and moderates disagree with Bush. In each case, the political center’s discontent is higher than the national average. Even when asked about Bush’s handling of the war on terror, most moderates and independents disapprove (see Table 1). No wonder 57 percent of independents and 60 percent of moderates think the country is headed in the wrong direction, as compared to 53 percent of all respondents. What this data makes clear is that Arthur Schelesinger’s Vital Center has morphed into the Lost Center.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x135795
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Their move to a one-party gov't is going to fail
WHEW!
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. They Could Have Weighted the Republican Votes
There's no point in a poll that's 50 % Republican.

Remember when Bush "won" the election , 40% of eligible voters didn't even vote so he really only "won" with 31-32% of the total vote (assuming the vote was not rigged, which I believe it was) and when you consider these polls can include people who are not eligible to vote, the allowable percentage of Republicans really goes down if you want it to be predictive of the public's true opinion.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. True. I did wonder why they didn't do that. Would the numbers have
just been wacky with such a small number of people?

Has anyone figured out what the real number would be if the dems, repubs, and indies were weighted correctly?

Oh, well. It doesn't really matter. We will see when the next round of approval polls come out.
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womanofthehills Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. AOL has a poll right now - 162,060 responses
POLL - How would you rate Bush's speech? Poor52% Excellent28% Fair11% Good9% How concerned are you about the situation in Iraq? Very74% Somewhat18% Not at all 7%
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. Hi womanofthehills!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Margin of error would be about 5.5%
for a random sample of 323 (assuming 95% confidence) but with a non-response rate that high, this poll, like most polls, is statistically worthless. That being said, looking at the breakdown of who actually responded, it is impossible to spin this as anything but a disaster for Bushco.
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patcox2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Do you mean 5.5 percentage points?
5.5% is a different thing.

In any event, it appears that they did try to get a random sample by asking randomly chosen people to watch, but then the sample "self-selected" when only one third watched, rendering the sample totally useless. My guess is that only the highly partisan watched.
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Simple math
Assuming a 95% confidence level the MOE for a random sample of this size worked out to be .0545 something so I rounded that to 5.5% but as you pointed out, all calculations are meaningless when the sample is self-selected.
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patcox2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. The MOE is measured in percentage points, isn't it?
Not as a percentage of the observed value.

And of course the MOE actually varies at the extremes of the distribution, but thats usually ignored.
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. the relationship between sample size and MOE
is given by the following formula:

(z/m)^2 * p * (1-p) = n

where z is the z-score that corresponds to the level of confidence desired, for 95% confidence (the most common), z = 1.96

m = the desired margin of error, written as a decimal. If you wanted to be within 3% points, m would equal 0.03

p = the proportion of successes (i.e. "yes" answers or the equivalent). If you have previous information on what p might be, you can use that. Otherwise, the safest course is to use p = 0.5

n = sample size

I merely let n = the number of respondents in this "poll", z = 1.96, and p = 0.5 and solved for m.

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patcox2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I think I would be less confused if you called it something else.
Like the confidence interval.

I was just joshing in pointing out that the "margin of error" is not a percentage, it is a defined number of percentage points.

Unless I have forgotten more than I thought, your formula is the approximation, the actual confidence interval for a given measurement will vary with the shape of the distribution, the more dispersed around the mean (producing larger standard deviation) then the larger confidence interval.
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dissent1977 Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. My god they like to spin polling data
With a sample like that any reputable publication would throw that poll in the trash. Unfortunately there are not too many reputable publications left in this country. :eyes:
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. CNN was honest on air re. this poll -- said many more Repubs watched...
so results were skewed in their favor. Still, only 46% approval....
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. I agree. Don't know why everyone is getting upset when most who would...
...watch this, want to see the guy, anyway, and he still only pulled 46%. Alot of Dems can't even stomach him, much less watch him.
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. Except that I Only Heard On The Radio That 70% of People
approved of the speech. I didn't hear the details or the reasons behind that number or where the poll came from or who was polled. Since it was a CNN feed, I assume we are talking about the same poll.

That is the danger of such polling - people who don't have time to read will hear stuff like this on the radio or on TV and think the people really are behind the president and this war when they are not.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. The poll the the above poster is referring to is this one for CNN...
Edited on Wed Jun-29-05 01:10 PM by Robeson
... which shows only a 46% approval.

An online poll from CNN is even worse for Bush showing a hefty 76 percent of the respondents found his speech "worrying"...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/29/bush.speech.ap/index.html

Not sure where you got your poll numbers from. Even the AOL poll was bad for Bush.
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. As I Said, Heard It On the Radio on a CNN Feed
46% very supportive - they add the very supportive and the supportive to equal the larger number, so that's where the 70+ support comes from - I'm not saying I agree that the poll is accurate!.
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droidamus2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Where'd these guys learn to take a poll
according to the article of the small sample of 323 people polled 50 percent were Repugs, 23 percent were Dems and 27 percent were independents. This in no way reflects the percentages for each of those 3 political divisions. This means that the positive number is probably somewhere south of 35 percent. I checked the CNN online poll (I know non-scientific) and they have three options

The numbers as of 9:09 PM were
1. 15% for the speech was reassuring
2. 7% for the speech was Uplifting
3. 79% for the speech was Worrying
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm thinking a ton of people called said they didn't watch or listen.
Most of America tunes the asshole out. Pay attention. FIFTY percent of the poll were Republicans and only 46% approved? Republicans are NOT a majority party in the real population. They can't win without the independents. And they've not only LOST them, but their own loyalists have begun to defect.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Cripes! I just noticed it's a Gallup poll!
Buy stock in Maalox now! Republicans are going to be shitting in buckets tomorrow morning.
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. They had 1000 originally (before speech), but only 300 watched it
even though the 1000 said they would watch it.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. That's a bit of a fall off.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. What crap!
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. I wish they would recheck the "mission accomplished" speech.
It would be interesting to see how much people approve of it now.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Agreed, given the biased sample this is a bad result for Bush.
I hope nothing too terrifying happens because of it.
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warsager Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Does that mean
that only 148 people liked his speach? Thats nothing! What kind of poll is that? Thats supposed to represent what?

And how many of those people do you think might, maybe just a teensy bit were afraid to express desent?

Oh now i'm just being silly!
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woosh Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
17. he'll get a little bump from that speech
my guess is that they are just trying to get his approval rating back to around 50%, even though they don't pay attention to those numbers.

The White House and congress are set up to operate at that approval rating, they think they can get things done with those numbers.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
18. nobody i know personally watched the speech.
bush has lost ALL credibility. he's seen as a fucking albatross around our necks.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
19. That's actually a horrible number...
Consider how many Democrats and Independents refused to watch that crap. If the viewing audience skewed heavily Republican and he STILL couldn't get a majority to back him, then he's got real trouble.
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
20. CNN poll
says something different.

www.cnn.com

Which word best describes President Bush's speech?

Reassuring 16%
7040 votes

Uplifting 7%
3039 votes

Worrying 77%
33908 votes

Total: 43987 votes
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
21. AOL poll shows 52% think the speech sucked....
Edited on Wed Jun-29-05 06:55 AM by leftchick
not bad for AOL....

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050628021309990014&ncid=NWS00010000000001

How would you rate Bush's speech?
Poor 52%
Excellent 27%
Fair 11%
Good 10%
How concerned are you about the situation in Iraq?
Very 74%
Somewhat 18%
Not at all 8%
Total Votes: 245,148
Note on Poll Results
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LiberalForEver Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. Only foolish people would watch and believe a fool!
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