In Violin Sections,Women Make Presence Heard(male violinist sues NY Phil.)

New York Times:
In Violin Sections, Women Make Their Presence Heard
By DANIEL J. WAKIN
Published: July 23, 2005


A male violinist's discrimination suit against the New York Philharmonic underscores a little-noted phenomenon: women have come to dominate the violin sections of some of the nation's leading orchestras, or at least hold their own. And their numbers among violin players have also helped raise their prominence as concertmasters, the most important orchestra jobs after the conductors.

But men still predominate in orchestras, and the testosterone level rises with the string instrument's size.

No matter why the male violinist, Anton Polezhayev, was ousted from the Philharmonic, the fact remains that women outnumber men in its violin section by 20 to 13....The Philharmonic's violin gender breakdown signals how far women have come in orchestra ranks, or at least in some of those ranks, as a quick look at rosters confirms. According to the Philharmonic's Web site, women count for 7 of the 12 violists, 6 of 11 cellists and 2 of 9 double bass players. At the Boston Symphony Orchestra, men trail in the violins 13 to 18, and lead 7 to 5 in the violas, 9 to 1 in the cellos and 9 to 0 in the double basses. In Cleveland, women outnumber men by only one in the violins, and at the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, men dominate that section, 18 to 10.

The proportion of women in the top 24 orchestras by budget rose from 28.7 percent in the 1994-95 season to 34.7 percent in 2003-4, said Julia Kirchhausen, a spokeswoman for the American Symphony Orchestra League. "When orchestras started, obviously the available players were all from Europe, and the orchestra tradition back then was all male," she said. "This is kind of a natural progression as women have entered the work force in all walks of life."

More glass ceilings crashed this week as Marin Alsop was appointed the music director at Baltimore, the first woman to lead a major American orchestra, and Pamela Rosenberg became the first female administrator to run the Berlin Philharmonic....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/23/arts/music/23orch.html

blind auditions have made a huge difference for women. I once auditioned and was moved down 8 chairs while all the men who had previously been behind me were moved above me. I complained loud enough to get the auditions reheard as blind auditions. The result? I was back in my previous spot with the men behind me. This was back in the day that women were segregated out from the men as less serious students. My how things have changed when your sex is not revealed until after the results of your study have been heard.

I've noticed this for a long time...it's like the 1950's when it comes to serious women composers.

Tell me there isn't a problem here and somehow men are just "innately more capable" of musical composition than women...

I'm being sarcastic for this is the current attempts in engineering, math and science.

had one of the first women conductors!

and some of them are very very good. There are not enough being heard though, at least in my community. My conductor tries to challenge the audience with lots of new music in between the classics. They are not always receptive :shrug:. That may be part of the reason, many of the works by women I have played are contemporary. I doubt all are though.

and there was a composer named Hildegard or something way back in the middle ages who you can get some CD's of and that is beautiful music as well.

I have also played the Clara Schumann Piano Trio and it's a really nice piece. But you're right, we don't have as much music of women composers from the "old days" which I think is a great loss, because I am sure there is lots more beautiful music that was deemed not important enough to publish due to being written by women, and now the pieces are gone forever.

called Rainbow Body based on one of Hilegards melodies. It was amazing.

Libby Larson is doing some really fun things. Joan Tower as well. I am drawing a blank right at the moment of any more contemporary composers who are female.

Rebecca Moore.

they even put extra carpeting on the floor so you couldn't tell if the musician was wearing high heels!

:headbang:
rocknation

quite that far but I do sit as the go between during the auditions so the person doing the audition has someone to ask a question to without revealing their voice.

Seriously though, it does seem that whenever a man (usually white) doesn't get the best, he immediately screams unfair?! I sometimes wonder if they ever think that someone else just might be better than they are. Or is the status of white man so powerful that no matter if he is the total minority on the planet, he must have whatever it is that he wants. Oh, now I remember why. God is white, with white robes and his son was white too. And Mary was only the Mother of god. I always wondered if that ever sinks in Mother of god. Before god. He has to sit on Her lap.
:rant:

I was thinking similar thoughts earlier this week after Bunnypants chose John Roberts over a woman for O'Connor's spot.

It's almost like it's open season on women....or anyone who's progressed due to affirmative action.

The "angry white males" are back in charge, and they want back what they've "lost." Women need to get back in the kitchen where they belong, barefoot and pregnant, and leave the traditional male positions in life alone. :sarcasm:

the feminine (not the nubile female form) is considered divine, then there is no hope for our home, Gaia. The feminine lives in all, but the fear is so great that any feminine attitude is considered diviant and disgusting (why homosexuality in both men and women is considered so evil). But this is just my humble opinion.

(nor male,for that matter)... if you ever worked with a lot of women your hope for Gaia would fade. The more the bigger are the chances there are ambitious assholes among them m and/or f. The unscrupulous will work their way up as their morals (or the lack of) are limiting them less no matter the gender. Having worked under both male and female bosses most males were old conservative farts and most females control-freaks with emotional issues and a big momma-attitude. :puke:

These experiences and a little research around the Matriarchal (Amazon) Tribes around the Black Sea - Caspian Sea Area, shows me women (generalization!) are as WARLIKE as men. They might pick other weapons but they are not better. Did you know these amazons chopped of a foot of their males so they couldn't run away?

patriarchy didn't work...i do not doubt matriarchy would work different but i doubt if it would be a more humane society... i strongly doubt so. Power will corrupt women just as men.

:pals:

with violin mastery. Don't women have better fine-motor control?

How are women doing with piano mastery? (not electronic keyboard, different strength required)

and have listened to dozens of auditions with my orchestra, which are completely screened, even the final round. We don't know who we are hiring till after we've chosen them.

I don't think I could generalize tht men are less good in fine motor control than women, but we do tend to hire more women than men and I don't know if that's because more women are now coming to the auditions.. they don't tell us who the unsuccesful candidates are.

years ago. The basic gist of that report was that on average women have more fine-motor control and better flexibility than men. Men possess more strength. As an average figure, there are always going to be some deviations from the mean or exceptions to the generalization.

Another series of articles I've read about is how women use more of their whole brains more of the time, while men's brain activity seems more centered in the frontal cortex. I wonder if this sex-defined brain-pattern disparity tends to occur during a musician's performance or even practice during 'flow', where an altered mind state likely exists in the musician, or if the sex-defined brain disparity tends to disappear.

I welcome the auditioners, tell them the rules, bring them in and sit where I can see them and they see me. If they have any questions they quietly ask me and I bring the question to the jury panel. I am the only one who knows the sex or age of the auditioner. It is very interesting then to listen to the comments of the panel. We do have more women than men auditioning these days. I am not sure why but there are more in all sections.

But rather than look to a sex-based different right off the bat, I'd look at social reasons.

I've known lots of young kids take violin (or other classical instruments), but by the time they're teenagers the girls can continue, while the boys are derided for it. This skews the pool early on.

Then there's income pressure. The well-paying jobs are few and far between, and men will frequently opt out of the orchestral life in return for a better paying, more stable job. Part-time orchestras are largely staffed with professionals-turned-part-timers, students paying their way through school, and housewifes. The few men I've known (in a smallish city) that were also full-time musicians had wives that earned much more than they did; this isn't widely societally sanctioned. And I'm leaving out church musicians. In larger cities the spread's greater, but it means there are more under-employed classical musicians.

My vln teacher was happy being concertmistress in the symphony in a smallish city, part-time work; she also played in the opera, the chamber orchestra, summer festivals, took gigs on the side (church, special performances of one kind or another), and taught 20 students a week. Her parents bought her fiddle and bow, paid off her loans. She made enough, but, as she said, she was glad she didn't have anybody else to support.

There's also a size issue for some instruments: I've heard good pianists, guitarists, and violists that were women, but they usually had some trick to make some of the reaches, or got smaller, and usually worse sounding, instruments.

I guess we can thank the proliferation of corporate 'mass media' for many financial ills of artists including musicians. There are so many good artists who have to have another job (for food, clothing, and shelter) so they can do what they love part-time.

I've known some phenomenal musicians that didn't achieve a career, and I've also known some musicians that had solid careers and were less than phenomenal. Somehow at that top 1% it's not so much musicianship as luck, I think.

It really is sad.

When I first saw the Minnesota Orchestra (then called the Minneapolis Symphony) as a child, there were maybe half a dozen women in it.

The switch to blind auditions in the 1970s-1980s has been revolutionary.

but out here in the world of (old-time, bluegrass, Celtic, etc) fiddle playing, the women have been coming on like a Mack truck for about the last ten years, it seems. Case in point: Alison Krauss.

The best fiddlers I met in Ireland in 1995 were women, and the current Arkansas State Fiddle Champion is a woman. Then, there's little Abby, who lives in the next town down the highway from me. She must be all of ten years old and plays a full size guitar like Doc Watson!

More power to 'em, I says. Nothing will cure you of being a sexist pig quicker than having "a girl" kick your ass back to the wagon at a hoedown!

:bounce:

n/t

I like your analysis!

They separate the wheat from the chaff.

50 or so years ago, there were 0 female hornists working in the top orchestras. Take a look now. And, females have entered the 'artist' world as soloists in droves.

More than anything else, things are just equalizing. Fine players are rare, on violin or any other instrument. The difference between qualified applicants is very slight.

Problem really is that the bulk of the performance jobs are in other countries. The quantity of qualified applicants is increasing by quantum jumps.

For historic insight into strings however, see the comical piece on 'The Orchestra' by H.L. Mencken. It is hilarious.

What's that? FRENCH HORNS!!! PDQ Bach.

my husband and I attended a concert put on by our city orchestra. I started to comment about the number of female musicians compared to the number of male musicians. He counted and told me that the female mucicians outnumbered the males. Women outnumbered men in the string and woodwind sections. This concert was an all request concert. The requests were made by computer on the orchestra's website.