Senate defies Bush, approves Iraqi loans

Edit to add story and link.
AP via Seattle P-I

By ALAN FRAM
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
 
WASHINGTON -- The Senate defied President Bush on Thursday and voted to convert half his $20.3 billion Iraqi rebuilding plan into a loan, dealing the White House an embarrassing foreign policy setback.

Despite an administration lobbying campaign that in recent days involved Bush himself, Vice President Dick Cheney and other top officials, the Republican-run chamber voted 51-47 for a bipartisan proposal making $10 billion of the aid a loan.

... "It's very hard for me to go home and explain that we have to give $20 billion to a country sitting on $1 trillion worth of oil," said one loan supporter, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.

... The Senate drive to make $10 billion of the Iraqi aid a loan was sponsored by five Republicans and three Democrats. The money would be transformed into a grant if other countries agreed to forgive at least 90 percent of the debt they were owed by Iraq, usually estimated at between $90 billion and $127 billion.

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Are these the same 8 Senators that caused Shrub to have a hissy fit? Life is interesting. Loans against Iraq oil revenue?

The rubber-stamp is breaking!

but about time.

on this one. He wanted a grant.

I love it!!

I heard Senator Lautenburg vote "no" and then "yes." There's a long list of amendments still to come in both the House and the Senate.

Did anyone see the vote? What democrats voted against the loan and what republicans voted for it? I don't get C-SPAN 2 after 6 PM so I couldn't watch the senate vote.

:grr:

If you want to watch C-SPAN 2 anytime, go here.

That's ridiculous. I always thought that was supposed to be done at 7 in the morning or 2 minutes before class starts. C-SPAN is so much more important than homework anyway.

I know I can watch C-SPAN online but some people in my house feel like going to bed at such early hours and the computer might wake them up.

{{{{headphones}}}}

Snowe (ME)
Collins (ME)
Chambliss (GA)
Graham (SC)
Ensign (NV)

I know Specter and Hutchison swithched their positions on the loan and I think that Ben Campbell supported the entire thing being loans in a previous vote so I guess he would back partial loans as well.

Snowe (ME)
Collins (ME)
Chambliss (GA)
Graham (SC)
Ensign (NV)

I know Specter and Hutchison swithched their positions on the loan and I think that Ben Campbell supported the entire thing being loans in a previous vote so I guess he would back partial loans as well.

Did Bush just get a boot in the ass, or what? :shrug:

Bush tried to strong-arm a group of wavering senators earlier this week into voting for an additional $87,000,000,000 to fund the war, err, occupation of Iraq.

The contentious part was about whether a substantial portion of this cash windfall would go to Iraq as a gift, courtesy of the U.S. taxpayers and their children and grandchildren, or whether the future government of Iraq would be directed to repay a portion of this enormous sum.

They kicked him in the teeth.

It really is a referendum of sorts in the Congress as to whether they should continue to support the Bushies' extrainternational affairs.

You make it sound like Iraq is getting a free ride off the sweat of American taxpayers. The truth is, the US committed a war crime against the people of Iraq, and this is just rubbing salt into the wound.

If the American people don't like paying to clean up Bush's mess, then perhaps they should vote him out. Luckily the Dems were there to save him from that...

Perhaps I should have done a better job making my point. I know Iraqis don't get this money; the fat cats who run Halliburton et al are the ones who profit.

As to getting Bush voted out, there are a lot of us here who are trying to do that very thing. And don't even tell me about the Dems dismal record in that regard, we're well aware.

And as far as compensation goes, we owe it to them. No argument there.

is earmarked for protecting the oil pipelines in the north(Halliburton). A little known fact I ran accross here a few days ago. Talk about pissing our money away...

voted for Gore.

that browbeating the few "moderate" repubs would backfire like this?:evilgrin:

Jr. will really have a hissy fit about this. :bounce:

I hope he doesn't crush a few OxyContins over this one.

As much as we can slow the warmongers down, as much as we can withhold blank checks from the neo-cons, as much as we can put sticks in the spokes of their wheels of world conquest, the sooner they will fail and crash and burn.

Very important. Dem senators are growing a spine and taking back their constitutional role to end the reign of Emporer Bush*.

I have blasted my two senators with calm but persistent letters and emails letting them know that we have huge problems in our state that need fixing before we throw money away covering up for Bush*'s failed invasion plans. I have gotten back a couple of canned responses indicating that they are getting a lot of heat and that they are responding.

This is a very good first step.

Gotta keep the pressure up. This is Good.

Made my day

:wtf:

Have they split up the $87B?

They didn't actually split it up but they are just turning parts of that reconstruction money into loans. The military money won't be affected.

eom

To continue the snipe hunt for WMD?

The $200 M for witness protection plans?

Are these in the $20 M or 67 M?

Do Iraqis have to pay for trying their own country?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a setback to President Bush, the U.S. Senate on Thursday voted to convert half of a $20 billion aid package Bush sought to rebuild Iraq into a loan.

The Senate voted 51-47 to make $10 billion a loan to Iraq that Bush could forgive if other creditor countries waive repayment of at least 90 percent of debts they hold from Saddam Hussein's regime. Bush argued that seeking repayment would undermine an upcoming international donors conference for Iraq, and hinder U.S. efforts to stabilize the country.

http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=791171&tw=wn_wire_story

several noted that they have been swamped with calls, emails, faxes...keep it up, folks...this money fight is NOT OVER YET...

call AGAIN first thing tomorrow morning...call often...call YOUR congressional reps and tell them to BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW !!!

no more money for war....

if these HUGE amount of money is approved....the horrible disaster in Iraq will EXPLODE into an $87 Billion Vietnam war....

most of this money is going for WAR, more WAR....if this money is approved in any fashion, it gives the pentagoon the funds to go onward to Syria, Iran and other massive killing throughout the middle east....stopping the money is the first step....the first critical step to stopping the draft and stopping the killing...

stop this madness NOW, call your Congress rep and complain BIG TIME...no more money for bush* wars....

Good sign!!

Geo. W. Butthead might remember that he said it's "our" money, not the gummit's money!

I know most people here disagree with me but I think that the reconstruction money should be a grant.

I am a big supporter of foreign aid and believe the US should help out poorer countries. I certainly don't think that we should burden these poorer countries with loans. The United States has attacked Iraq and it is now our responsibility to rebuild. We cannot give a loan to Iraq since they have no government anyway to accept the loan. Iraq will never pay the money back anyway so it really doesn't matter what you call because they will just keep whatever we send over there.

That's the real reason Bushco wants this.

There was an amendment by Senator Lautenberg that would have prevented any funds from going to companies that paid compensation to Bush administration officials like Halliburton does. Unfortunately it was defeated. One thing I noted was that Bob Graham voted against the amendment and when he was running for president he repeatedly said no money would go to Halliburton.

However, it isn't like all the money is going to Halliburton and other Bush allied companies. Most of the money will be spent for other reasons and I feel that will help Iraq. And it doesn't matter if it is a loan or a grant. Halliburton will still get the money so that is irrelevant to the grant vs. loan battle.

The US destroyed Iraq illegally, and has a responsibility to repair the damage they did. What is even MORE disgusting about this, is that Iraq is going to be made to pay back money that IT HAS NO CONTROL OVER! The Bush regime will ensure the money goes to rip-offs by Halliburton etc, in sweetheart deals that ensures that the Iraqis get the LEAST value for money possible, and then the Iraqi people will have to pay for it.

I also notice that there is no mention of it being a no-interest loan, so I assume the US will be making a profit off of this as well. Oh, but wait! If nations that had NOTHING to do with the destruction of Iraq forgive TEN TIMES AS MUCH in loans, THEN it will be turned into a grant! It's fucking criminal!

but I agree with you. I'm all for the 20 billion, but not the 67 billion. Let the Pentagon cut some corners.

While it's always nice to see Bush get publicly humiliated, especially after the fit he threw, we (the US) destroyed the country and we should have to fix it. But I imagine that he'll be back around March, 2004, trying to get more money.

Who did not show up? I heard Edwards was in Iowa....did he vote?

I also saw that he was on CNN from the Capitol so he was there today, but he could have left.

Lieberman had been the only person not voting on a different amendment so I don't know if he showed up for this one.

Byrd (D-WV) and Lieberman (D-CT)

From http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/nation/7023679.htm

...Late Tuesday, in a brief, brusque arm-twisting session with nine senators, the President made it clear that he was not there to...debate the merits of his $87 billion Iraq and Afghanistan aid package. He demanded that the aid to Iraq be in the form of grants, not loans, as some of the senators have urged.

Present at the session in the Roosevelt Room of the White House were Republicans Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania; Olympia J. Snowe and Susan Collins, both of Maine; Saxby Chambliss of Georgia; Sam Brownback of Kansas; Lindsey Graham of South Carolina; and John McCain of Arizona. Democrats Maria Cantwell of Washington and Mary L. Landrieu of Louisiana also attended.

At one point, as he discussed the question of providing some of the money as a loan, Bush slammed his hand down on the table and said: "This is bad policy." When Collins tried to ask a question, the President replied: "I'm not here to debate it."

See? All they had to do was stick together and just say no! Maybe they're feeling more confident knowing that their voters are behind them. Or maybe they see it as a kind of unemployment insurance!


rocknation

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00389

YEAs ---51
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Campbell (R-CO)
Carper (D-DE)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Edwards (D-NC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (D-FL)
Graham (R-SC)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Snowe (R-ME)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)

NAYs ---47
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bond (R-MO)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Chafee (R-RI)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Enzi (R-WY)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Miller (D-GA)
Nickles (R-OK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)

Not Voting - 2
Byrd (D-WV)
Lieberman (D-CT)

Or does anyone else just get livid seeing the "D" by Zell Miller's name???? Why does he even bother?????

always votes with the Republicans. Who is he?

He supported John McCain in the primaries for the 2000 election.

Here. You only get half of a shit sandwich....