New Orleans death toll may not be "catastrophic"

New Orleans death toll may not be "catastrophic"
Reuters
September 9, 2005

The number of dead in New Orleans may not be as high as first feared, the top Homeland Security official there said on Friday.

"There's some encouragement in the initial sweeps. Some of the catastrophic deaths some people have predicted may not have occurred," Col. Terry Ebbert, director of Homeland Security for the city of New Orleans said at a news conference.

"The numbers so far are relatively minor as compared with the dire predictions of 10,000."

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/09/MTFH13294_2005-09-09_16-39-39_MCC959646.html

There have been alot of fires popping up lately.

From 25,000 body bags....Estimated 10,000 Dead, Last count 118.

that is the mentality of this administration always put a happy smile on everything.

on the television and newspapers already.

:eyes:

The old lower the expectations game. Announce 25,000 body bags. Then, claim that anything lower than 10,000 will be good news because it isn't 'catastrophic'. Since when is ten thousand deaths because of lack of food, water and rescue not 'catastrophic'?

I read a couple days ago that they will simply try to identify the dead, not determine the cause of death.

That way they can say '7800 dead in the New Orleans flood', rather than '1200 dead from the flood and 6600 dead from thirst and exposure'. Therefore, no questions about how many might have been saved with prompt action.

I was radio channel surfing in the car at lunch, and caught a couple of minutes of Rush's (yeah, sue me) take on the whole thing. He's saying that the preliminary body count isn't as "catastrophic" as "the left would have us believe." He also called for apologies from those on the left who are contributing to hysteria by inflating the death toll numbers. He then compared statistics from other major weather disasters in history, saying that Katrina is somewhere in the middle and that much is being made of nothing. It was about that point that I changed the station.

body bags? Not some lefty site, but Drudge. Yep Drudge. Big black letters on Drudge.

Last time I checked, Drudge was hardly the "left. :eyes:

Mz Pip
:dem:

Of course they've spun the death count, just like they spin everything else. If pressed, they'll say the gators ate 'em.

Bodies will be eaten or dissolve or disappear if you wait long enough. Nubmers will also be low if you just don't count them also. Of course, who am I to question Homeland Security. After all, they are keeping us safe. :sarcasm:

If you don't count them, they don't exist, right?

Yup. Nothing to see here, just move along.

Get outta my head :) You're right, though.

of the dead... and maybe even a weekly profile of indiv. victims.

Will they do the same in the NOLA muck?
Will we see breaking news on CNN for each new corpse discovery?
Will workers come to a halt as each corpse is taken out under cover of the US flag, with a moment of silence, saluting, taps, etc?

The Edjakashun President has become The Death President.

For 9-11 Chimp needed a high body count.

For NOLA he doesn't.

Merchant of Death.

photographing the dead, etc. The intent has been and will be to low-ball the numbers and ensure there is no credible count.

..catastrophic at all - now that they have found a way of covering it up..

They can say whatever they want.

WITH OUR OWN EYES! sorry for shouting, but I knew this would happen. And if 500 people died because we, as a country, didn't get in to provide them food and water, that is CATASTROPHIC!:mad:

contractors to recover the dead.

INDICT
IMPEACH
IMPRISON!

What about the bodies that were swept away? I also do not trust that the people doing the actual counting and record keeping are going to be totally forthcoming at this point.

Maybe not bad for * and his asshole friends since the poor misguided souls voted against him. 1 unnecessary death is too many!

...a little over. If the numbers are comparable, too many invidious comparisons will be made. If K. is way larger, it's even worse for the 'keep us safer' crowd.

Luckily the task has been outsourced to Diebold.

The official death count will be 82.

...and it killed 255 people.

Draw your own conclusions about what they are doing with this kind of talk. :eyes:

downgrading anything "less" than this....and folks there will ALWAYS remember Camille.

They will see this for the bullshit it is.

Less than 911, and Bush wins!

What kind of crack are you smoking, Terry Ebbert?

With no pictures or media clips to show that thousands of dead bodies. Of course the "New Orleans death tell may not be "Catastrophic".

still making the Feds look grossly unprepared.

Nobody died at all.

Babies have begun to spring up spontaneously on lily pads.

A lotus flower has begun to grow out of *'s navel, from which will be born the new New Orleans.

It's the greatest creative event since the dawn of time...4000 years ago.

I like your style... welcome to DU!
:toast:

front porch singing "Swanee"

and amen!

But starving dogs, alligators, etc can eat the bodies. I was also thinking that in places like Plaquemine Parish, bodies could have just floated out in to the gulf and were eaten by fish. I think some people will never be found.

also, with censoring of the media, there is no way the numbers can be believed.

That's great news if it turns out to be true, in which case the city and state deserve a lot of credit for whatever steps people took before the hurricane to evacuate or otherwise prepare.

Of course, without media access to the recovery process, how will we ever know?

body bags on hand then? C o v e r u p.

So much good news!! So many bullets dodged!!
:sarcasm: :puke:

isn't catastrophic?

4,000? Maybe 5,000? No big deal right. It has to have five figures to be terrible.

They'll say that nobody actually died in the hurricane. All deaths are from the result of looters

Don't want to breathe that sigh of relief too soon, of course, keeping in mind all those news stories claiming that New Orleans had "dodged a bullet" (evidently written before the levee near Lake Pontchartrain had started to collapse). But I sure hope that the death toll won't be as high as feared.

ONE is catastrophic.

The dead are on the news. Bodies float by in the water. People were trapped in thousands of houses with water up to the roof.

Man - it's scary being in America today with all of this propaganda. Expect it to intensify with Karen Hughes at the microphone.

the actual numbers are a quarter of the projections they can say "that's not so bad, it could have been worse".

They will spin it to make 2500 or 5000 look good.

Lt. David Shand and Lt. Matt Udkow piloted H-3 helicopters out of Pensacola, Fla., having been ordered to deliver emergency food, water and other supplies to Stennis Space Center in Mississippi on Tuesday, August 30, the day after Katrina.
After dropping their loads they picked up a Coast Guard call for helicopter assistance in New Orleans. They rescued 110 people.
When they returned to base they were reprimanded.
I think their superior should be stripped of his rank and they should both be promoted.
What do you think? Why don’t you let your government representatives know how you feel?
Why not question why the vast resources of the American military (which has been held in reserve because the National Guard was sent to invade and occupy Iraq) were not put in use to assist in the immediate aftermath of the Hurricane disaster?
Advantages to the nation would have been an exercise for the military which is presently pretty much sitting around doing nothing and it would also have shown to the world the ability of the United States to respond effectively anywhere anytime in a compassionate manner. Did you know that the Mexican military has entered the United States and is bringing aid to the Gulf Coast?
It is a fact that within three days a very effective force of helicopters from as far away as Camp LeJeune could have reached the stricken areas and swooped thousands of people out with mind numbing swiftness. It is also a fact that the Navy helicopter ships that were sent from the east coast could have launched their helicopters to fly over Florida, refuel and arrive at the disaster area a week before their ships did. Instead their helicopters remained secured and they still have not been put into the field.
I am afraid that what happened in the Gulf Coast is a direct result of the political ideals of what this Administration feels is the role of the Federal Government in such cases. This might have been fine had the three stricken states (and their neighbors) had their National Guard units at full strength rather than occupying and rebuilding a foreign nation and if more than 10,000 Americans had not lost their lives.
Now they tell us it might not be 10,000. It could be much less. They have also forbidden photographers. It is a foolish set of circumstances.
If this is a failure of their ideals what will they do to us next?
More information about the role of the military for peacekeeping duties inside our borders is at :
globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1995/SLP.htm
It is written by Major Stawicki of the United States Marine Corps.
I wonder what use George Washington would have put our military to following Hurricane Katrina considering he invaded Pennsylvania because a bunch of backwoodsmen didn’t want to pay tax. I also wonder what President James Madison would have done to repay the action on behalf of the United States by the ancestors of these people who have been so devastated by this natural disaster. I also wonder what President Andrew Jackson would have done had he known that President George Bush was going to abandon the men and women who helped him secure victory during the war of 1812.
Finally – the cities. Mobile, Biloxi and New Orleans. I can’t believe some of the chatter about New Orleans. I remember being taught in elementary school that New Orleans was important as a shipping port and because it guards the mouth of the Mississippi. Grocery prices are inching up now because imports have been halted or redirected. Natural gas prices are spiking and fuel oil and gasoline have been affected. The drought on the Mississippi has caused massive problems this year because the soybean, corn, wheat and other crops can’t be moved properly but after Katrina, now that the harvest is coming on there is going to be a bigger problem if New Orleans port is not operational. There will be starvation and hardship around the world because of the slow down.
I don’t think the enormity of what is happening has settled in yet. I am horrified by the lack of response. Did you know that it appears that the Louisiana Fish and Wildlife service saved more people than any other group? They brought people in from as far away as Kentucky and they just did everything they could. The Forest Service was called in to put out the fires and they did their job.
Smokey the Bear showed up but where was Uncle Sam?
What will happen if North Carolina needs help? There have been hurricanes so fierce through there that islands were moved around and the coastline changed. (see Oregon inlet)
What will happen if California needs help? Or Kansas? Florida? - oh, sorry, Florida is okay. The President’s brother is the governor. They were already settling insurance claims there as Katrina raged through the Gulf Coast.
I myself called the Red Cross and about eight other relief agencies on behalf of my company looking for ways to help. The people here wanted to volunteer and help out the volunteers that were being overwhelmed. You know what I was told? Either the agencies rejected the offer outright or they rejected it and asked for cash.
But it doesn’t end there. One my co-workers located 200 families near our company and another 3 in another town. After talking with local representatives we found out that those folks needed EVERYTHING domestic we could give them. So now we have things going there and I am trying to find out if they need other services we could render.
As I consider what is happening and what I have seen (a lady I know was at two hotels in Arkansas and the only people that came around were local churches to see about the families and kids) I am beginning to believe that the reality of this bungled mess has been driven by a high level racism or some kind of sick and out dated class division where the rich not only refuse to help the poor they refuse to acknowledge that they exist at all.
I have heard and read and talked with people that have said that New Orleans was 80 percent black. As if that makes it okay. As if that makes it alright to ignore them. As if the plight of these Americans stuck in Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana were not deserving of immediate action because of the color of their skin.
When I have not heard the stink of racism raised I hear some sort of American Apartheid argument whereby they are judged unworthy of aid because they had no money. Their pocket books were not green enough to warrant concern.
Some of these people had no money, sure. Others did. Why did they stay? Things happen. I am sure that not all who stayed intended on staying. They had a short time to get out. The people going out on Highway 10 missed a massacre by 4 to 6 hours when the massive traffic jam was finally broken up (by private citizens using cell phones).
Some of these people had no cars. Some of my friends have no car. Does that mean they are less entitled to common human decency and the effective action of our expensive and mighty military forces?
What happened there? What happened?
I am so outraged myself that if I could raise my voice to a hurricane wind I would blow this nation clean.
As for the ethnic makeup. It was an American city. It was all mixed up and everyone was there. Generally living in peace. Generally good and decent people. :
Wikipedia tells us this about New Orleans :
As of the census2 of 2000, there were 484,674 people, 188,251 households, and 112,950 families residing in the city. The population density was 1,036.4/km² (2,684.3/mi²). There were 215,091 housing units at an average density of 459.9/km² (1,191.3/mi²). The racial makeup of the city was 67.25% African American, 28.05% White, 0.20% Native American, 2.26% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 0.93% from other races, and 1.28% from two or more races. 3.06% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

Lt. David Shand and Lt. Matt Udkow are true heroes. They acted as people should act. I agree that their superior should be fired, and they should be promoted and/or awarded medals.

I don't believe the number of deaths reported will be honest. Since this whole disaster, with its blatant neglect of the people, reflects badly on Bush, the fewer dead, the better for him. Also, having fewer dead than 9/11 enables him to lessen the significance of Katrina, and still proclaim himself a hero regarding 9/11 (when he was also notably absent).

The question remains WHY? Why abandon the people of New Orleans? Was it to let things deteriorate to the stage where martial law could be imposed?

Not only did the National Guard go to Iraq, they took their equipment with them. Despite that, Homeland Security's FEMA rejected help from those who were willing, and actually blocked their access to the city.

It sounds as though your company employs kindhearted people. It is fortunate that the people of the U.S. are kindhearted because our goverment is not.

I suspect the displaced poor of New Orleans will not be able to return. The land will be owned by the wealthy, and New Orleans will be forever changed. Is that why the levee was ignored? Who knows.

I hope there is a thorough investigation into what happened, and why the federal government let the people fend for themselves for so long.

Thanks for posting, and again, welcome to DU.

as they were supposed to be.

Good for them.

They are so full of shit, it's not even funny!

And how convenient...the media is not allowed to take photos of the dead?

I SMELL A HUGE COVER-UP!!!

Answer me that.

but "only" 2000 are dead. that way we'll feel relieved

remember 9/11, over 10,000 were feared dead in the end it was "only" about 3000.

sorry, I am still horrified

1. Go to New Orleans.
2. Die.
3. Report on how "catastrophic" that feels to you.

:grr:

They can come back in a month or so, and then we'll talk about what the meaning of "catastrophic" is.

given the number of people who stayed in the city (estimated ~100,000) and the number of people rescued from rooftops (32,000) and the number of people who stayed at the superdome (25,000-50,000).

I suspect around 1000-2000 dead.

hmmm... all this "good news" starts emerging once the press has been sent packing--at gunpoint-- by the US Army.

A connection, perhaps?

reporters in the recovery (of bodies) effort. He also said there wouldn't be zero blackout on reporters, either.

Since so many people have ZERO faith in the honesty of the federal government right now, it is absolutely important that the media work to keep the government fully accountable on the number of deaths.

The federal government needs to realize that there is such a low opinion of them right now and if they were smart, they'd allow the media along on an official basis, with the understanding that photographs wouldn't show faces or enough of buildings so that family could identify their loved ones from the surroundings.

....now I am not saying they are all deceased, but how can the death toll NOT be catastrophic?

The more I think that the leadership is missing the point. To me, yes 10,000 deaths is a dire prediction, but 1,000 or 100 or 10 or 1 death is a dire prediction. For the headline to read that the death toll may not be "catastrophic" seems overly callous. This could have been phrased a better way. To the man that lost his wife because the current pulled her out of his hand, the death toll is catastrophic. To the people that lost a relative in the nursing home, the death toll is catastrophic.

I think it is time that we as a nation, stop trivalizing the "numbers" and start focusing on the actual loss.

They give the body count, no one gets to verify.

and turned up as one of the "relatively minor" deaths.

Would that be just peachy with you, Terry?

One unnecessary death is too many. I love how they get people prepared for 25,000+ deaths so they can make 5,000 look "relatively minor."

These people are evil.

Just really fat Gators.





COVERUP!!!!!!

directly linked (because NG was not in Louisiana to aid in the aftermath of Katrina) to at least a couple of thousand deaths in New Orleans. That's over 4,000 Americans who are dead because of BushCo. just as a result from his stupid war.

:mad:

and set in the west, I'd still go outside to see it for myself.....Now what makes them think I'd believe sny number they pulled out of their ass.

it is catastrophic, regardless of the numbers. If anyone drowned because of indifference, it is catastrophic. If anyone died because FEMA didn't know there were people in distress in the Convention Center, it is catastrophic. However they spin it, it is catastrophic.

that would certainly cut down on the numbers.

On the other hand, the fewer bodies they find, the harder it will be to accuse the mayor and governor of not getting enough people evacuated!

:headbang:
rocknation

I'm outraged by the outrage frankly. this was nothing more than like a really big college prank with lots and lots of water.

mercenaries are involved in burning the bodies of victims in makeshift crematoria set up throughout the city. Three mercenary companies have been reported to be in the New Orleans area: Blackwater USA, Steele Foundation, and Wackenhut. The reported burning of bodies could be an attempt by the White House to suppress the total death count to an "acceptable," "manageable," and "spinnable" level.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

This is the initial phase of the PR blitz to downplay the death toll. Many bodies won't be counted. The figure will never be known. The "known" figure as reported by the disgusting MSM will be manipulated.

Any numbers they come up with can never be trusted, and they will forever compare it to other disasters or scenarios (not as bad as such-and-such, not as bad as we first predicted). Unless we keep raising the issue (and raising a stink!) all of it will serve to spin this into some kind of "acceptable" range for casualties, and in classic Rovian fashion the administration will once again escape without too much long-term damage.

What really saddens me, and what we need to keep kicked, are the figures for people who died AFTER Katrina and AFTER the levee-breaks. Those who died early on would probably have been lost no matter how the Feds reacted. But just how many died since the initial tragedies? How many could have been rescued and spared were it not for an inept and apethetic administration? Just how much blood is on their hands THIS TIME?

The funding that is required to do such research will most likely be put in the hands of some quasi-agency with political hacks that can be counted on to do much golf and martini and little in the way of accountability. Sorry to be so cynical but you can just see "The Mighty Wurlitzer" in motion.

"shuffle, shuffle, shuffle... " (sound of dead bodies and evidence being swept under the proverbial rug.)

If you guys are so very certain that good news is "on the march" then I'm sure you would LOVE to have that documented!

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=1359

Easy to hide the body counts this way.... And Bushies get richer.

Nightweed's Hurricane Katrina Aid Organizations

I'm not really trying to make a connection here, but the fact that Albaugh and the Bush Gang are involved in even cemetary work bothers me:

Corporate Site: http://www.sci-corp.com/
WikiPedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Corporation_International

the BIG PLAY DOWN.

Just watch them all in action.
They are going to try to do their best to bury this thing.:(

They're confiscating cameras and keeping journalists away - and now this. It is so predictable.

We will never know the actual death toll.

"...it'll decrease the surplus population".


(Dickens meant that sarcastically, of course ... but I fear that it would be lost on Homeland Security.)

why downplay the numberr of victims? it's not bush's fault, it's just fate etc, so the more victims, the greater ease in getting national support for action....otoh, if the number of victims is too large, then the obvious lack of energetic response get blamed (meaning bush)...some busheviks think the lower the number (one reports said only 87 confirmed dead!) while other think the best way is to post huge numbers; hell a cat 4 hurricane hit the gulfcoast and tens of thousaands of dead prove it bigger then imagined (thus exxonerating bush somewhat)
twisting slowly in the wind, a perfect pastime for repukes

and no press, who's really gonna keep that close of count?

Seems to be that this is catastrophic no matter what, but I still say consider the source.

I mean, homeland security has nothing to whitewash in this situation, right?

*Local law enforcement in the surrounding communities will not let anyone leave the city

*FEMA bars the Red Cross, and other rescue organizations from entering the city

*The military is sent to secure the city, and to evict those still remaining in the city

*A morgue is set up to receive deliveries of bodies by refrigerated 18-wheeler trucks...all non-morgue personnel are barred from the morgue

*An order is given barring all photos of dead bodies, an order that CNN is fighting in court

*Despite all previous comments about the number of bodies seen, and thought, to be throughout the city, word begins to filter out of the city that the death rate will be considerably lees than originally thought

How convenient for Georgie-Porgie.

*

I think Adolf Eichmann was the first to put mass murder in a RW perspective.

.. not counted, erased.

:puke:

Only caught a minute of CNN tonight, but the reporter on the scene was discussing this "yippee, lower body count" prediction, and said that firefighters disagreed....that houses had only gone through spot checks, they knew the neighborhoods, how many lived there, who left, who is unaccounted for, etc. The gist of the story was that firefighters are NOT expecting a lower count as the water goes all the way down and they go house to house, checking attics etc.

It's miserable. I don't expect a low count. It will be slow as hell, they'll be finding bodies in weird places for months...bodies swept out to sea will wash back, etc. I really hope I'm wrong and an unexpectedly high number got out, but some damage control PR at this point isn't enough to convince me that that's the case.

Remember how slow the 9/11 count was? I think it was weeks before they really knew, and they had a comparably simple (at least in terms of contained space) area to work with. This will go on for months.

To be perfectly blunt there's no way they want us to know that more died because of the poor response to Katrina than the 9/11 terror attack. So the official total will be less than 2,500