UPI: Cops Trapped Survivors in New Orleans

More on the story about why so few got out of New Orleans after Katrina.

Cops trapped survivors in New Orleans
http://www.washtimes.com/upi/20050908-112433-4907r.htm

By Shaun Waterman
UPI Homeland and National Security Editor
Sep. 9, 2005 at 10:48AM

Police from surrounding jurisdictions shut down several access points to one of the only ways out of New Orleans last week, effectively trapping victims of Hurricane Katrina in the flooded and devastated city.

An eyewitness account from two San Francisco paramedics posted on an internet site for Emergency Medical Services specialists says, "Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the city on foot."

"We shut down the bridge," Arthur Lawson, chief of the City of Gretna Police Department, confirmed to United Press International, adding that his jurisdiction had been "a closed and secure location" since before the storm hit.

"All our people had evacuated and we locked the city down," he said.
The bridge in question -- the Crescent City Connection -- is the major artery heading west out of New Orleans across the Mississippi River.

Lawson said that once the storm itself had passed Monday, police from Gretna City, Jefferson Parrish and the Louisiana State Crescent City Connection Police Department closed to foot traffic the three access points to the bridge closest to the West Bank of the river.

He added that the small town, which he called "a bedroom community" for the city of New Orleans, would have been overwhelmed by the influx.

"There was no food, water or shelter" in Gretna City, Lawson said. "We did not have the wherewithal to deal with these people.

"If we had opened the bridge, our city would have looked like New Orleans does now: looted, burned and pillaged."

But -- in an example of the chaos that continued to beset survivors of the storm long after it had passed -- even as Lawson's men were closing the bridge, authorities in New Orleans were telling people that it was only way out of the city.

"The only way people can leave the city of New Orleans is to get on (the) Crescent City Connection ... authorities said," reads a Tuesday morning posting on the Web site of the New Orleans Times-Picayune newspaper, which kept reporting through the storm and the ruinous flooding that followed.

Similar announcements appeared on the Web site of local radio station WDSU and other local news sources.

"Evidently, someone on the ground (in New Orleans) was telling people there was transport here, or food or shelter," said Lawson. "There wasn't."

SNIP

XXXX


Police Trapped Thousands in New Orleans
http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/news/2748

As the situation grew steadily worse in New Orleans last week, you might have wondered why people didn't just leave on foot. The Louisiana Superdome is less than two miles from a bridge that leads over the Mississippi River out of the city.

The answer: Any crowd that tried to do so was met by suburban police, some of whom fired guns to disperse the group and seized their water.

Around 500 people stuck in downtown New Orleans after the storm banded together for self-preservation, making sure the oldest and youngest among them were taken care of before looking after their own needs.

Two San Francisco paramedics who were staying in the French Quarter for a convention have written a first-hand account that describes their appalling treatment at the hands of Louisiana police, a story confirmed today by the San Francisco Chronicle, UPI, and St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

When buses charted by the group to escape New Orleans never showed up, they camped out beside a police command center on Canal Street, believing it was the best place to get aid, protection, and information. They were told they could not stay there and should leave the city on foot over Highway 90, which crosses the Mississippi River from New Orleans to the suburb of Gretna, a city of 17,500 people.

Running out of food and water, they walked to the bridge, growing in number to around 800 people as word spread of a safe way out:

As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line across the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in various directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched forward and managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told them of our conversation with the police commander and of the commander's assurances. The sheriffs informed us there were no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to get us to move.

We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as there was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the West Bank was not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in their City.

In an interview with UPI, Gretna Police Chief Arthur Lawson confirmed that his department shut down the bridge to pedestrians: "If we had opened the bridge, our city would have looked like New Orleans does now: looted, burned and pillaged."

The increasingly desperate group set up camp on the New Orleans side of the bridge, where they were seen by several media outlets, until they were chased off at gunpoint by Gretna police:

Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark, we sought refuge in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on Cilo Street. We were hiding from possible criminal elements but equally and definitely, we were hiding from the police and sheriffs with their martial law, curfew and shoot-to-kill policies.

The paramedics believe that race played a factor in the decision to block evacuees on foot. Gretna's population is 56 percent white and 36 percent black, according to the 2000 U.S. Census.

I guess we're all speechless.

...and it's been in the foreign press.

Now it's confirmed.

It's not a crime to wish a police chief dead, is it?

were reporting. The people were not allowed out. It was on MSNBC or Fox. I believe there is video at Crooks and Liars.

Good LORD!! This is utterly dispicable! I can't even type i'm so fucking pissed at these bastards!!!

>>>>>>

Geraldo Rivera: Let them walk the hell out of here! Let them walk on the interstate. Let them walk to the Wal-Mart on the other side of the river. Let them walk to some other town. Walk some place where you can help them.

What you've got here is thousands and thousands of people who have desperate needs six days later! These people are in the same clothes. Where do you think they go to the bathroom? What the hell?

Shepard Smith: I'm standing right above that convention center, and they won't let them walk out of there. What they've done is lock them in there.

The government said, 'You go here and you'll get help. Or you go in that Superdome and you'll get help." ... AND THEY DIDN'T GET HELP! THEY GOT LOCKED IN THERE AND THEY WATCHED PEOPLE GETTING KILLED AROUND THEM! They watched people starving. They watched elderly people not get any medicine.

And you know what they've done? They've set up a checkpoint on this bridge ... And it's the only way out. It's the connection to the rest of this world. AND ANYONE WHO WALKS UP OUT OF THAT CITY NOW IS TURNED AROUND! You are not allowed to go to Gretna, Louisiana from New Orleans Louisiana.

Over there, there's hope. Over there, there's electricity. Over there, there's food and water. But, YOU CAN'T GO FROM HERE TO THERE BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO IT!!! It's a fact!

Sean Hannity (interrupting): I want to get some perspective here ...

Shepard Smith: THAT IS PERSPECTIVE! THAT IS ALL THE PERSPECTIVE YOU NEED!

Geraldo: Look in the face of the baby, no sugar-coating, no Republicans or Democrats ... LET THEM GO!!! LET THEM WALK OVER THAT INTERSTATE AND GET OUT OF HERE!!!

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/02.html#a4763

valued to the SOB plantation owners than the lives of many blacks are now. I can't freekin say how much I hate these racist SOB's that rob us all of our freedoms, dignity, humanity, and lives.

to a slave holder. The corporation is much better off. You could not support a slave with any kind of food, clothing and housing and medical care for $5.35 per hour or $214.00 per week; which care would be required to "protect" your investment. But for around that amount you can "hire" your slave and not worry about his need for health care, food, shelter etc. If your employee (slave) dies or other wise leaves your employ, no problem just get another. If the US citizens refuse to "work" for those wages no problem you just "employ" unlawful (and even more desperate) aliens from across our Southern border. If you are really ruthless you can employ the new slave for even less, paying below minimum wage "under the table" to an "agency". Outsourcing your crime is a great way to keep your hands "clean" leaving you free to enjoy the fruits of your "labor" while you worship your all knowing, all seeing god.

American corporations with minimum wage "employees" are the new slave holders, make no mistake about it. Their CEO's aren't the super intelligent favorites of god that they pretend to be, just the greedy beasts waiting for the slaughter to come....and come it will. There will come a time when the "good" people can't stand to see the crime and maybe even realize their part in it.

It's time for a real living wage in America and a cap on salaries and bonuses to any employee of any corporation conducting any business in America.

Crooks and Liars said a few days ago that after an appearance in the studio with other journalists, she had not seen him.

I wrote to him and Geraldo to thank them and will write again and ask where Shepard Smith is but since I don't watch TV, I was wondering if anyone had seen him on since his magnificient pleas for justice for people who were dying. The video is on Crooks and Liars and I had downloaded it before from DU and it is so stunning.

wtf?? this story is huge!~

Every one of whom should be shot.

Those so-call 'Peace' officers need to be tried for crimes against humanity.

what kind of nation have we become??:( this is shameful and horrifying. no wonder the world hates us.

I've read this from people's first-hand accounts, and I even saw a sheriff interviewed on CNN who said very proudly how he "secured" his parish by posting armed guards at all entry points. No follow-up questions were asked, of course.

But this is a huge story.

this 'bedroom community' is mostly white?

The cop was keeping the mostly black survivors who were fleeing NO out of his little community?

Son of a bitch!

So it doesn't look to me to be a racist thing. More like a "we've got ours, go find yours" thing.

Races in Gretna:

White Non-Hispanic (53.3%)
Black (35.5%)
Hispanic (6.3%)
Other race (2.6%)
Vietnamese (2.5%)
Two or more races (1.8%)
American Indian (1.2%)

http://www.city-data.com/city/Gretna-Louisiana.html

Unfuckingreal. Unfuckingforgivable. Burn Gretna. Starting with their racist Clancy Wiggum wannabe.

I can't help but hold out some hope in my mind that most of the mismanagement, bungling, and foot dragging had more to do with poverty and classism than outright racism. Sure, we all know if the victims had been rich the administration would have stepped all over themselves to get aid to them, but if they'd been poor and white? I just didn't know, at least not before now. These are ugly ugly people and I suspect there are a lot more just like them we haven't heard about.


Ronnie Harris - Mayor of Gretna


Arthur Lawson -- Chief of Police

This had EVERYTHING to do with protecting "Bush's base", rich AND poor.

How did Gretna vote, vs. New Orleans proper and specifically the hardest-hit parishes?

Here's how Jefferson County voted:

President: Jefferson County (LA)
Updated 11/3/04 4:58 AM ET
100% Precincts Reporting Incumbent* declared winner

Candidates Votes %

George W. Bush * (R) 117,692 62%
John F. Kerry (D) 71,936 38%
Ralph Nader (I) 945 0%
Michael Badnarik (Lib.) 315 0%
Michael A. Peroutka (CST) 144 0%
David Cobb (Green) 97 0%
Walter F. Brown (I) 74 0%
James Harris (SWP) 42 0%
Gene Amondson (Lib.) 24 0%


BUT, here's how Orleans county voted, HEAVILY Democratic, a real standout among others in Louisiana.

President: Orleans County (LA)
Updated 11/3/04 4:58 AM ET
100% Precincts Reporting Incumbent* declared winner

Candidates Votes %

John F. Kerry (D) 151,686 77%
George W. Bush * (R) 42,760 22%
Ralph Nader (I) 823 0%
Michael Badnarik (Lib.) 379 0%
Michael A. Peroutka (CST) 136 0%
David Cobb (Green) 135 0%
Walter F. Brown (I) 88 0%
James Harris (SWP) 54 0%
Gene Amondson (Lib.) 25

There was a HUGE battle going on in Jeff County in 2003 over redistricting that critics charged was diluting the black vote. The DOJ approved the plan, however.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/elections/2004/la/prescounties/

My county tends to vote blue, but the county next to us (to the north) tends to vote red along with the rest of the state. When Ophelia hits us, assuming it does, I just hope there will be no damage to us, because we are like 1 of only 3 blue counties in the whole state. I'd hate to be up shit's creek without a paddle like those poor people were.

Btw, what you said about some poor whites voting repub is true, but some of us poor whites vote dem exclusively. :hi:

Joseph Goebels:



Klaus Barbie, concentration camp meister:



SouthAfrican former president Pieter Botha (Apartheid Enforcer)



They all would have been proud of the near-genocidal behavior of the Gretna, LA, police.
This type of thing should have NEVER happened in American soil...

Also state charges of endangerment and assault with a deadly weapon at least.

I can only hope the respective state and federal attornies do prosecute; convictions are guaranteed.

Manslaughter or second-degree murder.

OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!

:mad:

why people weren't being allowed to leave the city when this was going on last week. Now I know. This is reprehensible.

:kick:

...in our suburban, whitebread, racist community. You know - those POOR people. It's their own fault they're poor, don'tcha know?"

:mad:

there is no excuse for such blatant rascism. whoever gave this order should be jailed.

Arthur Lawson the Police Chief of Gretna in Jefferson Parish is a Democrat. Same place as Sheriff Harry Lee and the Mayor of Gretna, Ronnie Harris is a Democrat too.

Arthur Lawson information:

http://www.sec.state.la.us/cgibin?rqstyp=comh1&rqsdta=30517207

Information on ALL elected officials in Jefferson Parish:

http://www.sec.state.la.us/cgibin/?rqstyp=COMP2&rqsdta=26

Information on ALL elected officials in ALL Parishes, just click on the Parish you want on the map. Click on Orleans Parish and read and weep :(

http://www.sec.state.la.us/cgibin/?rqstyp=COMP1&rqsdta=START

and if these bastards who closed the bridge happen to be Democrats they bring shame to our side of the political divide, to our nation and to the human race. They may be Democrats, but they are not like us. They are vile, murderous scum.

While the base, broad horror of the Katrina Aftermath Disaster is the result of Beast* amministration malfeasance, this demonstrates that, in the details, there is blame aplenty to go around.

These cops, and any other officials who supported this inhuman, unthinkable crime deserve to be indicted, convicted and put away for life in a crowded, dangerous, angry prison. They deserve to be housed with the general populace. They deserve to me made to wear shirts that say, "I saved Gretna from the New Orleans poor." They deserve justice.

And nobody really wants justice for themselves. We want mercy for ourselves, and, generally, I wish mercy upon others. Not this time. This cowardly, evil act has taken me past mercy.

I am furious. Damn. I am furious. I am furious.

Russell of Georgia was a democrat, etc...

SHAME SHAME SHAME!

Right now, he's BRAGGING about it. I want that to end abruptly.

Uh huh ...

So that would prove, umm, nothing.

Its also 36% black.

So much for blaming it on racist religionists.

Christians turning away other Christians is strangely delicious in its irony. Speaks volumes, wouldn't you agree?

So much for subtlety.

A few cops did.

were they afraid that Gretna's empty houses would be trashed? (and that they would be blamed?) Is this the reason those people weren't allowed out of NO?

martial law. Daily Kos quoted NPR that bush used the people of nola as hostages to try to get the Governor to give up control of her state but she was afraid he might declare martial law which in effect is what he has done with the reporters being threatened.

He WANTED TO CREATE RACIAL STRIFE OR THE APPEARANCE OF IT AND HOPED IT WOULD SPREAD. If he declares Martial law then all laws are null and void except his majesties word.

Kos joined InfoWars in writing about the scary new turn of Mexican mercenaries being allowed to carry weapons. This is a serious violation of US law and these people are not rescue workers.

Daily Kos
NOLA: Mercenaries finally come to American Soil
by Ptolemy
Sat Sep 10th, 2005

Yes, I've been saying it for a while. Once the mercenaries wereused to "augment" the army in Iraq, it was only a matter of time before they were used to "augment" the Guard here. Sure, they waited for a disaster first ... I mean,you don't just roll out the new product line full force for no reason. That would be "boiling the frog" too fast. People would notice.

It's only 150 so far, and reports are unclear who brought them in, but it's clear that the Feds are allowing this and telling local officials to allow them in.

Link below the fold:

Ptolemy's diary :: ::
http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002349.html
How many other ways do I have to spell this out? Blackwater doesn't belong there.

They aren't doing this like Sean Penn or John Travolta. They are being paid to do a job that thousands of doctors, firefighters, and police volunteered to do and were prevented from doing. They are being paid to fight American citizens over here, so our volunteer armed forces and national guard can die in a completely pointless war over there.

THIS IS NOT RIGHT.

Infowars.com has photos of the CONVOY of Mexican armed troops yesterday. Then on AOL main they had similar photos but close up so you couldn't see how many vehicles there were.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mexican_troops_enter_texas_armed.htm

Armed Mexican Troops Invade US
Eyewitnesses: Under cover of aid, combat ready soldiers roll into Texas

Alex Jones & Paul Joseph Watson | September 8 2005

COMMENT:
This is absolutely a conditioning exercise to get the American people to accept the presence of foreign troops on American soil. The Globalists who are hell-bent on destroying this country are exploiting the horrible tragedy on the Gulf Coast to finally do what they've wanted to do for years: crush American soverignty. For years Alex Jones has been investigating the joint exercises held by US and foreign troops and has witnessed these forces training and preparing for this moment when they would be able to invade by invitation.

Gretna was ALREADY evacuated! What more proof could you need that they care more for property than people?

talking about that decision. He said he understood the peoples wish to cross the bridge but he couldn’t allow them into his city because he had to protect his own cities water and other supplies etcetera...pretty disgusting if you ask me.

but allow the cops to steal the evacuees' water that they needed to survive.

When Cain, with his brother's blood on his hands, stood before God, according to the Bible, he asked this famous question..."Am I my brother's keeper?" (Gen 4,chapter 9)

Apparently, the answer too often in America, is "no". Never mind that Jesus preached to love and care for one another. Never mind that any successful society depends on cooperation and a certain understanding that we must, in times of need, care for the weakest ones among us.

Although I do not have a link, I remember reading several years ago, about archaeologists who discovered a Neanderthal skeleton who had obvious deformities, but who had lived, for that day and age, a relatively long period of time. This meant that members of his clan undertook his care, because he could not fend for himself in those days.

Remarkable, that people living in caves tens of thousands of years ago, were so far ahead of modern Republicans in compassion, caring, and assuming responsibility for other members of their society.

n/t

"escape route" mean anything to this asshole? Let the people GO!

This is utterly un-amazing. He should be tried for murder.

that you take to get out of NO after the flood.

The Gretna Police did allow cars to go through but refused to allow anyone on foot to come over. Seems pretty racist to me.

Trapping people in a flooded city?

reckless endangerment, or negligent homicide at the very least.

... is extreme, and death results because of it, the charge of murder is an option -- at least in my state.

In a case against public officials, there's also the issue of qualified immunity that must be overcome. Reckless or extremely unreasonable behaviors are not protected by official immunity.

It comes down to the question of the reasonableness of the action taken and the range of choices available to the officers. If their "backs were up against the wall" and they had reason to believe that the refugees presented a real, imminent danger to the community, then what they did might be construed as reasonable.

I think that's going to be hard sell to a jury, particularly as witnesses report the sheriffs fired at an unarmed crowd that seemed happy to have reached what they thought was a place of safety. There was no reasonable basis to assume that these people wanted to do anything more than keep walking until someone picked them up in buses.

The responsible thing to do would have been to escort the evacuees through Greta, or arrange transportation for them.

If you know that rendering someone aid will endanger their life, and very possibly kill them, that might go up to murder two. And if you are a peace officer, that makes it worse. But I am not a lawyer.

I don't know if this was a legal order they were following anyway. What if a fireman didn't allow someone to flee from a burning town, because the mayor of his town told him not to let people through? I doubt very much that would be legal. I don't think peace officers are allowed to only protect people in their own town. I don't even know if they would have legal authority to bar entry under the circumstances. Some charges should be brought against the mayor and the police. We would see what sticks. This is beyond the pale.

On edit - It seems to me that this has a lot of similarity to Iraq. Just as soldiers have been given (and followed) illegal orders, the same thing may have happened here.

it wasn't cowardice, it was because they did not want to be bush's storm troopers.

I read somewhere that the nola police let the most violent criminals go to wreak havoc on already traumatized people. Bush wanted race riots in NO and hoped they would spread elsewhere so he could declare martial law and escape Fitzgerald's indictments and afterdowningstreet.org Barbara Lee's Resolution of Inquiry which is the first step towards impeachment. If all laws are suspended then the chimp can do what he wants and no one can touch him.

Please write to congress about the mercenaries who are being allowed to carry weapons in the US though it is very, very illegal and a soverienty issue. Infowars.com and DailyKos have alarming articles on this new development in NOLA.

Do I need to tell you what way those suburbs vote?

From the Gretna Municipal Ordinances:
http://library7.municode.com/gateway.dll/LA/louisiana/2683?f=templates&fn=default.htm&npusername=10866&nppassword=MCC&npac_credentialspresent=true&vid=default

Sec. 66-86. Obstruction of walk.
It shall be unlawful to willfully obstruct the free, convenient and normal use of any public sidewalk, street, alley, road or other passageway, or the entrance, corridor or passage of any public building, structure, watercraft or ferry, by impeding, hindering, stifling, retarding or restraining traffic or passage thereon or therein.
(Code 1979, § 16-112)

they leech off NO for a market to work in, then when NO needs their help, "sorry, gates closed". America is sick.

What the hell?

Even the most wild-eyed rumors about the survivors spread unchecked by any attempt to discover the facts of the situation; all reason was completely cast aside. And so people who tried to save themselves were refused all help -- even when the only "help" they sought was to be allowed to exercise their lawful right to cross a public bridge to dry land. Some almost certainly died as a result.

19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. <6> The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish.

Where were the Nat'l Guard troops to help with this situation?

GRETNA, La. — Thursday night's mission for the Vermont National Guard members assisting the hurricane relief efforts highlighted the contrast in styles between the Vermont soldiers and local police and sheriffs.

<snip>

With New Orleans instituting a mandatory evacuation Thursday, the Guard, across the river from the city, was worried about an influx of refugees and other, less welcome people.

"It's possible the bad guys, thugs and drug dealers may seek alternate living arrangements in our area," said Maj. Michael Papariello, the second-in-command of the Guard force. "They may come looking for weapons, vehicles, gas, cash or food."

So the third platoon of the 1st Battalion, 86th Field Artillery, was tasked with manning a checkpoint and patrols on Holmes Boulevard — near the first exit south of the Mississippi River across a major bridge.

"The bridge is Exit 10, our guys will be at Exit 9," Papariello said. "We don't know what to expect.

He added, "It's an expect-the-worst, hope-for-the-best kind of thing. … That's what we're here for: deterrence."


http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050910/NEWS/509100365/1004

After the Gov of LA took charge and brought Gen Honore in to get the ball rolling. He is the only one who can command and bring in troops and NG from everywhere else at this point. The week before it was up to the Pentagon but they were on vacation.

Taking their cues from the chimp.

Louisiana was a Red State. How did the votes tally in good old Gretna?

Maybe someone else knows where we can check into it?

http://www.city-data.com/elec/elec-GRETNA-LA.html

Will go look around for their county elections results and see what else we can't discover. At this point tho it seems fair to say that if it walks like a Fiend, talks like a Fiend it probably IS Republican just like we've been guessing.

Don't you just love "compassionate conservatism" in action, Rethug style? :sarcasm:

http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/politicalInfo.php?locIndex=3384

::snip::
Presidential politics: Gretna is in Jefferson Parish, which supported George W. Bush in the last two presidential elections. According to unofficial vote totals for 2004, Bush received 117,882 votes and John Kerry received 72,136 votes.
::end snip::

I contend that the Kerry people had already left town and the Thugs took it upon themselves to disenfranchise those unfortunate souls trying to escape the hell of NOLA.

We don't want no black people coming to MS. Another case of negiligent homicide.

Plus remember all the reports in the media about people hearing gun shots? Now we know it wasn't the looters but rather Mississippi Police. Nice folks, not.

BTW: I hate sloppy journalism. In the first article the bridge goes east out of New Orleans, not west. MS is East of LA. Get a map folks.

The 2nd article makes it sound like it was NO police that wouldn't allow the people to leave and that was not the case it was the MS police blocking the bridge. Second, even though the MD thinks the NO police lied to him about the buses, we can't prove that the policeman didn't know there wouldn't be any buses. Everyone was being told buses FEMA was bringing in buses that somehow never showed up most of the time.

gretna is most certainly in jefferson parish, louisiana

it is called the west bank but you go east over the bridge because of the curve of the river, that's why it's called the crescent city, it's curve shaped

nothing to do w. mississippi or haley barbour

a few thousand wrongful death lawsuits wouldn't cure. and I am not talking about class action. Each case should be heard individually over a long period of time against every person and every office that participated in this slaughter in this manner.

They basically forced these people at gunpoint and with itimidating gun shots over their heads to return and die because their paranoia lead them to believe someone may steal something passing through their precious town.

Is this the year 2005??

unbelievable

preventing them from crossing the bridge leaving NO. There is a couple of threads on this.

away and die. I wonder how many of these assholes go to church on Sunday.


:grr: Pray on Sunday, and treat people like crap the rest of the week.

In situations like this tribal mentality always takes over, "us against them". Civilization is a very fragile thing. The victims become the enemy.

I'm moving as far from the city as possible. Who wants to join my tribe?

form our own tribes. Do this upper classes ever think that we out number them.

That's why they will come to "rescue" us with machine guns in their hand.

...to a pandemic? Just for fun, read some of the accounts about how communties tried to keep out travelers from other towns during the 1918-1919 Flu Pandemic.

(Or however they do it down there.)

After what he did to those people, do you suppose the law will make him pay for it with his own life?

and a place on FEMA for a job well done - how high up depending on whether or not they have experience judging horses.

But I know a horses ass when I see one.

to lead FEMA

Patrolman (sarcasm on) Lawson should be tried and convicted for crimes against humanity. Any takers?

"Well, why didn't the people just WALK out of the city?"

The assholes are asking this all the time.

Redstone

so we let them die.

Such is the Culture of Life. :grr:

... people's bottles of clean water, and denied them access to a public thoroughfare. With guns levelled at those desperate people all the while.

And all week long we've had to listen to dumbass ideologues whining about how "those people" just didn't try to help themselves out of their predicament!

Taking their water. Not that any of the rest of it was excusable, but damn. At least they could have used the excuse of protecting their town (which is a crappy excuse), but to take the WATER they need just to survive? I don't understand.

This is IMHO a vicious crime and should be prosecuted. I believe these are the crimes of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Is that so? If it is, these law officers and politicians committed the same transgression in Gretna. It is unlikely they'll pay the same price.

Every person who was refused passage over the bridge should sue Gretna. Every person who died should constitute a charge of negligent homicide or depraved indifference or whatever applies when you condemn people to their deaths.

If one has to walk though, they need to be trapped, and returned
to the city. What a government we have. Capitalism in its finest monents.

:mad:

:banghead:

story after story of total ineptitude.

Danger of peace breaking out, all over.

Well, it's almost all over for BushCo, INHO, the same bunch of criminal ERW spooks who killed MLK and the Kennedys.

If there is no justice, there will be no peace.

manslaughter and whatever else they can pin on him.

what a sunuvabich.

but this wasn't about race. it was about "those people"

about the blocked bridge to Gretna (if not, it was Geraldo). So, it was on the are, but nobody knew at the time is was the suburban cops!!

I guess they'll get the Medal of Freedom or something from Bush...

Sounds pretty heartless if you ask me.

who was talking on This American Life. She was a white tourist from San Fransisco who somehow got mixed in with a large group of blacks trying to escape the city. They were told to go to a certain bridge and when they got there the Nat'l guard or police opened fire on them. It was interesting to here an account from a white woman who was experiencing what the black people were- she was livid.

the ship's crew locked the gates inside the stairwells so that the "steerage classes" couldn't get on deck, thereby allowing the rich passengers to escape on the few lifeboats they had.

Apparently, things haven't changed much since 1912.

I remember that from the movie.

One of these guys was interviewed on either CNN or MSNBC...he had his entire family with him and they had walked TWO HOURS in that nasty water to meet the bus. The police turned him and the others away.
Did anyone else see this?

Creoles are people mixed with everything. Many look white.

Everyone should hear about this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4717479
Thread title: an account from News Orleans

Those damned cops in Gretna are going to have to answer for this. IF this Aurthur Lawson doesn't resign and/or isn't prosecuted, then an old fashioned !$#*&!#% is in order.

They have violated basic human rights here x(

Left to drown like rats in a death cage! If they had guns they might have been able to fight their way across the bridge!

And the ensuing "Civilians Fires Shots" cry. Then the police have been saying they were fighting a war in NOLA. NO SHIT! I would be at war too. I WOULD LOOT and SHOOT had they done that to my family!

THIS IS SO HORRIBLE!

on Friday night here. I listened, absolutely horrified. I used to think it was all about class, and I still do think that has a lot to do with it, but now, I really do believe it was racism at its most ugly. I'm becoming very, very tired of living in this world. People just aren't very nice.

How can anybody do this? You see people in total desperation trying to get out of a clear deathtrap and you keep them in there. How about Love thy neighbor?

I'm just so damn angry. Every day we find out more and more. This will boil over.

Why haven't the federal authorities arrested him for looting and armed robbery? HE STOLE FOOD AND WATER FROM STARVING PEOPLE.

from the civil rights movement in the '60s.

n/t

Are they still there?

:kick:

this is a ripe one for them .

Would we think DOJ Gonzales would do anything about it?

or does anyone know anything about the Attorney General of Louisiana?

Last resort. Aclu or Southern Conference follows up on these type of
things. Though I dont think there has been this type of thing since
the Ku Klux Klan owned the south.

Police agencies to the south of New Orleans were so fearful of the crowds trying to leave the city after Hurricane Katrina that they sealed a crucial bridge over the Mississippi River and turned back hundreds of desperate evacuees, two paramedics who were in the crowd said.

The paramedics and two other witnesses said officers sometimes shot guns over the heads of fleeing people, who, instead of complying immediately with orders to leave the bridge, pleaded to be let through, the paramedics and two other witnesses said. The witnesses said they had been told by the New Orleans police to cross that same bridge because buses were waiting for them there.

Instead, a suburban police officer angrily ordered about 200 people to abandon an encampment between the highways near the bridge. The officer then confiscated their food and water, the four witnesses said. The incidents took place in the first days after the storm last week, they said.

But on the bridge there were four police cruisers parked across some lanes. Between six and eight officers stood with shotguns in their hands, the witnesses said. As the crowd approached, the officers shot over the heads of the crowd, most of whom retreated immediately, Mr. Bradshaw, Ms. Slonsky and Ms. Golden and her son said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/10/national/nationalspecial/10emt.html?pagewanted=print
------------------------------------------------------

* needs to pay for this.

It's the petty beurocrats again. :eyes:

n/t

support the police at times. This is INEXCUSABLE. Of course, HERR union will come to their defense.

It's good to see the NYTimes has confirmed it.

:)

Should I bring it up on Monday?

:evilgrin:

you will get a number of threads about this.... one has original accounting as I recall... phenominal read, yet mind baffling.

Try to start with this, then search for rest... if your stomach can take it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1767593

and coordination which might not have been if FEMA had been on the ground before Katrina had hit.

on NPR this morning. Amazing , powerful stoies of their experiences trying to escape New Orleans and how they were driven back into the city and prevented from leaving. The police commander lied about buses to get them away from the command post.
Suburban panic at a tide of urban poor and desperate and mostly black trying to escape death and destruction. (With tourists in the mix.)

Are you still sure you want to do that?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Don't take it personal. ;)

happens. i take it fwiw. when truth abandons you at every turn, further abandonment isn't easily dismissed. it has to be taken seriously.

This is unacceptable - who was responsible at the top for this. I have a feeling that the Bush admin wanted people to die.

The answer: Any crowd that tried to do so was met by suburban police, some of whom fired guns to disperse the group and seized their water.

I apologize in advance for posting in your message board. I'm neither democrat or republican...liberal or conservative, but I thought I would give a little eyewitness account to this topic.
I am a parole officer in Louisiana and we had to go in on the day after the hurricane to evacuate 6000 prisoners from the Orleans Parish Prison. I was there on Hwy 90 just across from the Superdome for 2 1/2 days. I crossed those bridges several times. Many of my fellow officers cried at the plight of those stuck on the highway. We gave every bit of our extra food and water to those suffering.

Here was the problem. Once you crossed the bridge onto the West Bank there was nothing. No electricity, no water, nothing, just looters. It was dead over there. The people walking would be facing a 30 mile walk before there was anything. This is what bothered me so much. Dumbass FEMA had their busses staged up on I-10 to the north. There was no way to get in from there due to the flood. They could have come in from the South (West Bank ) and driven right up to the convention center and within 100 yards of the superdome. (which they finally did 4 days later).

Also, even though I had to criticize fellow officers, the NOPD was part of the problem. There were a few outstanding ones that did the best they could, but many were the biggest looters. We stopped 3 of them in a stolen mail truck toting an AK-47. Once they identified themselves, we eased up, but what did we find in the back of the mail truck? an ATM.

As far as blame goes (my personal opinion)

10% Nagin - He did the best he could with the resources he had but stayed in Baton Rouge much of the time. (although communications in New Orleans were non-existent

50% Blanco- She was just bad in this crisis. She seemed overwhelmed and provided no confidence.

40% FEMA - which is ultimately Bush's fault for putting Brown in charge. They were clueless.

First of all, not everyone in NOLA were looters. As we have clearly seen, some of those "looters" were people looking for food, people that had not eaten anything for 4 days. It's a shame some bastards decided to do real looting and stealing, including police officers, which is truly shameful. But not because of that it was necessary to confine the entire NOLA area and block everyone trying to scape. That borders on the criminal, specially after what we have seen happened.

Second, governor Blanco tried over and over again to get help from Bush and from FEMA. She requested federal help days before the hurricane hit, and even Bush put caveats to helping Louisiana. Then, after the hurricane hit, she pleaded with DC to send help, and it still took them FOUR FREAKING DAYS to get in.

But, yes, I guess Blanco should carry 50% of the blame for what it was, as clearly specified, the RESPONSIBILITY OF FEMA.

It' doesn't fly. Sorry, but I strongly disagree.

is because of her actions in the first 2 days. I agree that after that, it was all on an incompetent FEMA. I guarded prisoners in the middle of the interstate for 2 days while prison bus after prison bus got them out, yet civilians were sitting on the side of the road. The only reason that the prisoners were evacuated was because the Louisiana Secretary of Corrections took it upon himself to use the resources at his disposal.(they were mostly Dept of Corrections prisoners in that jail, along with some parish and some federal prisoners) It broke my heart every time a prisoner laden bus left N.O. and passed hundreds stranded on the interstate. Edwin Edwards (as big a crook as he was) would never let those people sit there dying of thirst. It doesn't matter if Blanco was a Dem or Repub, she dropped the ball and her non action was magnified by partisan politics played out between Baton Rouge and Washington.

As I stated in my earlier post, I'm not going to play the partisan game and asses blame solely on what party affiliation a political leader has. So this will be my last post. I just thought some of you would like to hear from someone who was there for a few days.
Although, in retrospect, I shouldn't have added my opinion at he end of my last post. This is a Democratic message board, and being an independent, I should have respected your rules. So, I apoligize. I wish a happy life to all of you.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

You wrote:

And stop trying to make this a racial issue because it ISN'T. At least the poor black people in New Orleans got some fucking air time. Washington Parish didn't see a single FEMA representative until Sunday. Plaquemines Parish and St. Bernard have towns that have been completely wiped off the map, and those parishes are mostly white and mostly lower-middle class.

Nice try. I do not for a minute believe that a crowd of white hurricane victims would have been forced back into a ruined city at gun point. I also do not believe that the police would have taken food and water supplies away from a crowd of white refugees.

There are over 200 vehicles in the wrecker yard next to my sister's house. Mostly stolen vehicles from New Orleans which were stopped at my parish's border. Beer trucks. Water trucks. RTA busses. Mail trucks. The policemen in my parish didn't start stopping people from freely moving in and out of the parish until 2 apartment complex managers were held up at gunpoint to surrender their keys and ended up having entire complexes looted.

Well, give us a link, by all means. For the past week, we've been reading reports of refugees rioting in Baton Rouge and murdering people in supermarkets in Lafayette. Those and similar claims -- some of which made the news -- have turned out to be false. I've looked for a story with details that match what you've alleged. I haven't found one yet.

Ask any of the managers of the Winn-Dixies in New Orleans. Ask them why their babyfood sections are mostly intact, but their pharmaceutical departments were ripped to shreds.

Managers of the Winn Dixies? Just how many of them stuck around after the mandatory evacuation order? And those who left the city won't have been able to check their stock since then, because the authorities are not allowing private citizens to enter New Orleans. Your claim simply cannot be verified -- as I'm sure you know.

Nobody blocked anyone from trying to escape. They clearly told people what the evacuation routes were. Parishes that are undergoing evacuations also have the right to make sure that people don't come behind the evacuation to cause trouble. If we're evacuating and you aren't from here, YOU DON'T BELONG HERE EITHER. THIS IS A COMMON PRACTICE TO PREVENT CRIMINAL ACTIVITY FROM AN UNPROTECTED COMMUNITY. YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IF YOU LIVED HERE.

First, the Westbank Expressway (US Business 90), which the Crescent City Connection carries, was part of at least one recommended evacuation route.

Second, the Expressway is not a parish road, and local law enforcement may not have had the authority to block the right-of-way in any event.

Finally, even if the road were a parish road, and not part of a designated evacuation route, your claim would still be perfectly asinine. You really think that if the designated evacuation routes are inaccesible, the last little burg with a clear road running through it is free to stand between refugees and terra firma, forcing people to remain in a disaster zone? Think again!

Bush isn't the only president to preside over an administration that didn't give Louisiana the funds it needed to build the levee system to protect from a cat 5 storm. We've known about this for 30 years. We've had Republican and Democratic presidents, Republican and Democratic governors, and Republcian and Democratic congressional majorities in all sorts of mixes. They sure as shit want our oil and need our port, don't they? They should have thought about that beforehand. Our entire state budget is only $18 Billion. It would have cost less than that to shore up the levees properly and put in every wetlands protection project we've ever asked for. It's going to cost over 10 times that just to rebuild.

And for everyone who wants to whine about how much the rebuilding process is going to cost? Fuck you. We warned you and warned you and warned you. You didn't want to spend the funds to protect and shore up our wetlands and didn't want to spend the money to build up and maintain the levee system properly. Bush said "I don't think anyone ever expected something like this to happen"... yeah, nobody except EVERY GODDAMNED PERSON IN OUR STATE.

You know what we in Maine did when we decided that we needed to improve our infrastructure and expand publicly-provided services? We voted -- in a referendum -- to levy a state income tax. That's the way things work up here. We don't wait for the feds. When we need something, we try to do it ourselves, and pay for it ourselves. The last time I was in Louisiana, the state was relying heavily on terribly regressive state and local sales taxes on things like groceries. So while Louisiana was busy socking it to the poor every time they ate a slice of bread, the state still made sure that the affluent had a nice, low income tax paradise to live in -- never mind that the place was falling apart. It was like that for years. That's obscene.

And yeah, how about that oil industry of yours? How come it never occurred to anyone to force the industry to operate in a manner that might actually benefit the people who've had to live next to it all these years? Let me tell you something. If Maine had all that oil, we'd have had universal healthcare years ago. We wouldn't have to be implementing Dirigo Health in piecemeal fashion, as we currently must.

Have the Feds failed Louisiana? Yes. Has the state government failed Louisiana? Also yes. But that said, it's also pretty clear that the people of Louisiana have failed themselves -- routinely.

I'm not taking this shit anymore, and I don't care what party you're in or who you support. You play games with my people, you're my enemy.

Maybe you are your enemy -- did you ever think of that?

information so we can follow up on your account? You can send me a message privately, if you prefer. See the DU FAQs for instructions, if you're not sure how.

We welcome a diversity of opinion here, and hope you stay around and continue to post. :hi:

My, oh my, the things Katrina has revealed about ourselves!

I'm absolutely outraged at the actions of the genocidally racist Gretna police. The Gretna cops alone may have been responsible for most of the suffering in the NOLA shelters (Convention Center and Superdome).

So if you pair the Gretna police not letting people out, and FEMA not letting relief and food in, you have a recipe for disaster.

The head of the Gretna police needs to be prosecuted for his genocidal actions, as well as that prick Michael Brown from FEMA.

"If we had opened the bridge, our city would have looked like New Orleans does now: looted, burned and pillaged." - THIS quote is only missing 'by those N_____'. i wonder if a civil rights violation could be proven to have been perpetrated against those fleeing new orleans?

Unhappy with the way things are going in the United States?
Launch a complaint. Let the Commander in Chief know you think
it’s time he and his cabinet stepped aside so that competent leaders
can begin to restore dignity, order, and progress to our nation.
The phone number for the White House is as follows:
(202) 456-1414

Arthur Lawson, chief of the City of Gretna Police Department is quoted as saying, "All our people had evacuated and we locked the city down" and "If we had opened the bridge, our city would have looked like New Orleans does now".
Um, Chief, nothing could look like New Orleans does now.

'Racist' police blocked bridge and forced evacuees back at gunpoint
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
Published: 11 September 2005

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article311784.ece also carried on http://Michaelmoore.com
Please read entire article It is compelling.
I first read of these people on here, then a couple days ago there was a report on MSNBC the Abrams report. The EMS workers- told their story very well on TV. I had to leave before seeing the response.
I hope this gets carried and investigated here. there is so much to this story that is important.
Mandate Accountability

Grrrrr.

Don

what were they going to do when they got somewhere else..??

they had no choice but to stay.. Bush failed to commandeer the Bus lines in the area to save them.. probably 20000 to 40,000 dead

a recent article indicated he was still unaware of the degree of the disaster till Thursday.

F'n wet brain alcoholic drug addict..

click on the blue link in my signature

How were they going to leave with redneck sheriffs shooting at them as they were trying to leave? That was my point

Don

I tried to google a map but could not find one with names instead of numbers.
Was there more than one way out and, if , why couldn't the people on the bridge take the non-blocked (i.e. to non-white parishes) way out?

i'd say that if they could they would have

Gretna's population is 56 percent white and 36 percent black, according to the 2000 U.S. Census.

A long time ago people in this country quietly started holding police to a lower standard than normal people, not higher.

Now instead of expecting heroism and bravery in exchange for paying them, we just let it slide when a group of 5 cops shoot a 15 year old in the face 10 times because he 'lunged' at them with a kitchen knife.

This is no different. There will be a lot of hand wringing, but eventually someone will start shouting about how thirsty and tired the poor police heros were and how menacing the 'black looters' were it will all be forgotten about.

"...for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'

Then they themselves will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'

Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."