Retired general: Iraq invasion was 'strategic disaster'

And I'm not even in the military nor am I experienced in foreigh policy.

I just read, watch and listen to the news, editorials, analyses, etc.

In other words, I pay attention to reality and also to what people think and how they perceive things. I have some knowledge of cultures, religion and the differences among them.

Only a total dumbell like *, living in a fantasy world with his fantasy world friends, would have come up with this fantasy of invading Iraq.

What did they fucking expect?

officers (most retired, of course), diplomats, etc.? And me, too. Lots of people knew this was a disaster and Americans should be ashamed of letting this happen.

throngs still chant: four more years, four more years.

The surge of informants has also provoked anger in Sunni Muslim towns along the Tigris. Some residents say informants are drawn to U.S. field commanders' rewards of as little as $20 and as much as $2,500. The informants are occasionally interested in settling their own feuds and grudges with the help of soldiers, the residents said.

Others contend that the informers are exploiting access with U.S. officials to emerge as power-brokers in the vacuum that has followed the fall of the government on April 9.

"Time's running out. Something will happen to them very soon," said Maher Saab, 30, in the village of Saniya.

The U.S. military says bluntly it does not have the means to safeguard those providing intelligence. "We're not providing any kind of protection at the local level," said Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the U.S. military commander in Iraq.

~~The Soul of Iraq: From War to Resistance and Rebirth
Selected Reports by Anthony Shadid From Iraq Monday, April 26, 2004;

Washington Post foreign correspondent Anthony Shadid won the 2004 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting. Read some of his dispatches from Iraq during the war.

• 'We're in a Dark, Dark Tunnel'; Family Weathers Attacks, Prepares for U.S. Siege (March 24, 2003)

• In a Moment, Lives Get Blown Apart (March 27, 2003)

• Enduring Life, and Now War; Mother Struggling to Survive Weeps as She Sends Son to Fight (March 28, 2003)

• A Boy Who Was 'Like a Flower'; 'The Sky Exploded' and Arkan Daif, 14, Was Dead (March 31, 2003)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050928&articleId=1012

~WASHINGTON (Sept. 23) - About 9,400 active-duty U.S. troops in Iraq who are scheduled to finish one-year tours in January will be kept there an extra seven to 10 days, the Pentagon said Friday.

dismissed as just a focus group not worth listening to.
IMPEACH GEORGE BUSH AND SEND THEM ALL TO THE HAGUE!
:bounce:with my hair on fire!

and not doing the play by play on CNN like some others.

None could get any media time to argue against this idiocy. Big Media wanted this war and they did everything they could to talk it up and play down anyone critical of it.

committed by the most disastrous BUSH.

called the war "the bay of Goats" I still laugh everytime I think about it. Not the mess but his way of characterizing it. There are many retired Generals and Admirals who are very much against the war.
I'm waiting to hear Shinseki.

From May 2004:

Accusing top Pentagon officials of "dereliction of duty," retired Marine General Anthony Zinni says staying the course in Iraq isn't a reasonable option.

"The course is headed over Niagara Falls. I think it's time to change course a little bit or at least hold somebody responsible for putting you on this course," he tells Steve Kroft in an interview to be broadcast on 60 MINUTES Sunday, May 23 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

The current situation in Iraq was destined to happen, says Zinni, because planning for the war and its aftermath has been flawed all along. "There has been poor strategic thinking in this...poor operational planning and execution on the ground," says Zinni, who served as commander-in-chief of the U.S. Central Command from 1997 to 2000...

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_05_16.php

The one Shinseki was fired for wanting to implement.

I sat in my living room, at the onset of the war ("Shock and Awe") totally dumbfounded.

I wondered if our government had totally lost it's frickin mind.

The two reasons Bush gave for going into Iraq were:
1.) To find the destroy the WMD
2.) To kill Saddam

I sat there, watching our country drop 10,000 bombs on this country--wondering how in the hell a 5,000-pound bomb would accomplish either objective--1 or 2.

From the get go---it's been obvious that our government didn't know what the hell it was doing. They wanted a pretty, visually enticing war that garner US support. Other than that--there was no planning.

If a stay-at-home, PTA mom like me--can sit in my damn living room and figure out that our military strategy is totally wrong---and that this will NEVER work--why in the hell couldn't the "brilliant" military and political minds in this administration figure it out?????

"Imminent Threat to the United States"...most people seem to forget that one. Even though we controlled 2/3 of the country with our "no fly zones". Where was the threat?

> From the get go---it's been obvious that our government didn't know
> what the hell it was doing.

I disagree. They knew *EXACTLY* what they were doing,it's just that
their real objectives are notthe same as their publicly-stated
objectives.

Their *REAL* objectives are:

1. To implement the Grover Nordquist impoverishment of the government
strategy using a state of permawar as the justification for why we
can't afford any of those pussy leftist social programs anymore,

2. To establish far tighter social control over the country, again by
using the "terrorist threat" and the state of permawar as the explanation
for why you don't have the rights you used to have,

3. To use the Vast Right Wing Noise Machine to reassure the public that
only the Reich can defend us in this state of permawar, thereby
diminishing any political threat from Democrats.

Their strategy has succeeded brilliantly.

Tesha

No doubt that was their intent. I don't think you could explain leaving the ammo dumps unguarded during the initial invasion of Iraq (among other blunders) as anything other than intentional (how could they NOT know about them?)

Incompetence is the easy argument to use with the neocons, but when you take the rest of their actions into account, a much more sinister plan quickly emerges and they appear to be going for broke .....

They KNEW what they were doing. These Republican bastards aren't idiots, they just play them on TV. Theirs is a sick, twisted strategy, just like what you said. Sickening. :puke:

And Bush ain't even done disasterin' yet.

But I used to compete in horse shows a long time ago.

Considering the resulting destabilization in this region of critical importance in the era of post peak oil production, this statement is not hyperbole.

before it started. I remember the arguments with friends and family that this was make Vietnam look like a baby.

WASHINGTON -- The invasion of Iraq was the “greatest strategic disaster in United States history,” a retired Army general said yesterday, strengthening an effort in Congress to force an American withdrawal beginning next year., Retired Army Lt. Gen. William Odom, a Vietnam veteran, said the invasion of Iraq alienated America's Middle East allies, making it harder to prosecute a war against terrorists.

The U.S. should withdraw from Iraq, he said, and reposition its military forces along the Afghan-Pakistani border to capture Osama bin Laden and crush al Qaeda cells.

“The invasion of Iraq I believe will turn out to be the greatest strategic disaster in U.S. history,” said Odom, now a scholar with the Hudson Institute.

Homeward Bound, a bipartisan resolution with 60 House co-sponsors, including Lowell Rep. Marty Meehan, requests President Bush to announce plans for a draw-down by December, and begin withdrawing troops by October 2006.

http://www.lowellsun.com/ci_3072005

Posted in the wrong place due to combination of threads. (See below).

Bush can and does shrug off all consequences of the march on ALL ME oil.
It never was about Iraq only and as long this is the best that critics can do, lament the ineffectiveness of what is merely the first stage burning off the rocket, then the next steps will occur, again without consequences or any ability to stop them as they try to sela the PNAC deal with the next stage and then the next. Even the Israelis will be horrified by their "dream" of pacifying the region militarily. Even the PNAC monster idealists don't See the Great Venality of the BFEE master scheme.

No, they don't have to necessarily plot and cultivate Bin ladens etc. They might, but the main point is they are entirely ready and able to take advantage of any and all destabilizing elements to enable their overall thrust. No one apparently, especially their allies inc crime, sees it is all about Bush and his people and no one else in the world at all. Theocracy is just another tool in the chest because it is there with violent force to combat the insurgence of human progress and civilization- the true enemies of the grand criminal. Fundamentalism my butt. The cultic Bush allies already are under the sway of the filthy loot. It's Mammon and it's the one state religion.

Please help me out, I didn't go to college.

:)

I just got an image of democrats shoveling enormous piles of elephant sh*t into carts pulled by donkeys.

I made it at an online bumper sticker generator :)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050928&articleId=1012

They condemn German-NATO complicity and the German International Court has universal jurisdiction - I signed the petition a year ago on http://www.CCR-NY.com (Center for Constitutional Rights) to ask the German prosecutor to indict Rumsfeld and although he accepted the documents, he refused to prosecute at that time but it looks like they are getting ready to - Rumsfeld has said that NATO and hospitals for US GIs will be transferred to Poland a few months back because German police could arrest him.

Kissenger barely made it out of France a few years ago when the French police were coming to his hotel room to question Kissenger on his indictment by an International War Crimes Court for his Crimes Against Humanity in Vietnam and South America, I think Bush, Senior is on the same list.

German court declares Iraq war violated international law
by Justus Leicht September 28, 2005 World Socialist Web Site

Just a few weeks ago, a highly significant judicial decision was handed down by the German Federal Administrative Court but barely mentioned in the German media.

With careful reasoning, the judges ruled that the assault launched by the United States and its allies against Iraq was a clear war of aggression that violated international law.

Further, they meticulously demonstrated that the German government, in contrast to its public protestations, had assisted in the aggression against Iraq without having any legal right to do so. Although the decision was made three months ago, the judgement and its legal arguments have only just been made available in written
form, comprising more than 130 pages.

The decision was made in relation to legal proceedings initiated by a German army officer who had refused to obey an order following the invasion of Iraq by the US-led coalition of forces because he feared that he would in effect be supporting the war. As a result, he was demoted from major to captain and the army filed a criminal complaint against him for insubordination. In its latest judgement, the Federal Administrative Court reversed the demotion and said the charges against the officer contravened Article 4, Paragraph 1 of the German Constitution, which guarantees the right to freedom of conscience.

The 48-year-old career soldier was assigned to work on the development of a computer program that he feared could be employed in the war against Iraq war. He informed his superior that he could not carry out the order. He then sought the army chaplain and his unit’s doctor and informed them that, in his opinion, based on what he had read in the German press, the war contravened international law. The doctor then sent him to a psychologist and even arranged for him to be examined to determine his mental sanity in an army hospital—a reaction that reminds one of Franz Kafka’s novels and the actions taken by Stalinist regimes against dissidents.

His superior also sent him to the army unit’s legal advisor so that “the legal background could be explained” to him. The advisor threatened him with dishonourable discharge and demotion. The soldier challenged the legal advisor over the war’s legality under international law, prompting the advisor to turn to the German defence ministry......

Didn't nixon clean up jfk and lbj's vietnam mess???

He added to it :)

is most likely Bush's failed attempt at parroting Michael Ledeen's call for "creative destruction" throughout the world.

"Every now and again the United States has to pick up a crappy little country and throw it against a wall just to prove we are serious." - Michael Ledeen

Hmmmmmm.....

All these lives and for what...
Play time for bad boys?

What if Bush's clandestine purpose from the very beginning was facilitating the escape of Osama bin Laden and the imposition of Islamic theocracy on Iraq? What if Bush's alleged "blunders" -- whether in New Orleans or Iraq -- are deliberate expressions of purposeful policy?

This makes perfect sense if you reason from the premise Bush's secret objectives are economic: maximum concentration of wealth by the oligarchy, maximum disempowerment of everyone else -- with the worldwide imposition of theocracy (Fundamentalism whether Islamic or Christian) to discipline the global workforce: religion restored to its ancient role as opiate of the masses and the justification of tyranny as "God's divine will."

It sounds like you have been talking to The Committee That Really Rules America, she says with a heartfelt sigh.

seems to be Rove's main MO. Create a massive problem, either through incompetence, negligence or propaganda, let the people react to it, then have * step in with a list of grand solutions to save the day (although of course they're not actually real solutions but part of a pre-planned agenda).

for him to worry his pretty head about.

I can't believe I can't believe George Bush is in the White House. It's like the worst recurring dream one could have.

:(

What if everything that's been done by this administration is due to information which, if released, would absolutely destroy the House of Bush and all those within their sphere of power?

If that is operative, then everything that Bush has done/not done makes a lot of sense.

Could be the ultimate act of treason at play here...

http://www.livejournal.com/users/mparent7777/2005/08/13/

~~In that period, the neocons have mastered how to manipulate the American political process, using tactics such as “perception management” and concentrating on the control of information as it flows through the nation’s capital. Iraq.]

But as the Iraq War riles more Americans, even some leading neocons are trying to shift the blame. For instance, Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol, who was a prominent advocate for the invasion, has begun pointing the finger at inept military leaders.

Bush and the neocons appear to share the same immediate goal. They are desperate to buy some more time by again applying the two constants of the Iraq War – deception and wishful thinking.

So, as the U.S. death toll soars, Bush and his advisers are back to their old tricks – spinning the facts and hoping for the best.


:evilfrown:

they have a very definite agenda. However they are not invincible.

And further, if they had an intelligent war plus occupation plan would the War have been a success? By success, I don't mean that we would have totally withdrawn by now. Nor do I mean that we would have established a democracy (ahem), but there would have been some sort of stable government, perhaps with a different set of Bathist thugs. The new thugs would have been satellites of the Bush Family Evil Empire (BFEE, tm), and would have known how to behave and prosper in the new world order.

So, did Rumsfeld's Hitleresqe meddling and Ashcroft's perverted promotion of torture destroy *43's legacy?

William Odom, is one of the good guys folks, he was adamant against doing this, and he, like us, hit it on the head.

Print and distribute. We must educate the sheeple about how counterproductive this war is. It is our strongest argument. I flyer cars, books at the library and book stores and free newspaper racks.

download:
http://bushcheated04.com/war2.pdf

I agree with this general. It can be safely assumed that he will now be the target of the republican smear machine. However, it doesn't take a genius to see that Bush blundered by invading Iraq. Anyone that has studied military history or tactics realizes that it is most unwise to split your forces as we did in this case. History also shows that it is not a good idea to ignore the advice of your generals, as Bush did when general Shinseki warned that it would take a lot more troops in Iraq. Of course, Shinseki was ridiculed by Rumsfeld and then was 'retired' from the Army.

I feel that if Bush was really serious about capturing Bin Laden, he should have picked a general, made him a five star, given him as many combat divisions (Army and Marines) that he asked for, provided him with all the necessary naval and air force support, and then invaded Afghanistan D-Day style. The mission would have been to eliminate all Al Aqaeda and Taliban forces and hunt down Bin Laden where ever he may be. Instead, we sent in the 82nd Airborne without it's artillery (a very bad idea). The results? Bin Laden and Al Qaeda are still a threat, we are stuck in Iraq, who had no WMD's and had nothing to do with 9-11, and our Army can't meet its recruiting goals. That, to me, from a strategic standpoint, equals failure.

given would be troops being withdrawn JUST IN TIME for the mid-term elections?

am I just cynical, or could there be something to this?

coincidence or tinfoilhat time? You guys judge.

The Gates of Hell By Jamal Mudhafar Azzaman, August 7, 2005

The headline of this article is not a title of a science fiction film. It truthfully translates what is currently taking place in Iraq.

The gates of hell are now wide open – thanks to U.S. invasion – and their fires have enveloped almost everything in our country. There is no electricity, no water, no fuel, no food rations, no security, no sewage …There is terror everywhere and there is fear of everything – fear of the present and of what lies ahead in the future.

All indications tell that our future is bleak as there is nothing left in this country that makes you feel secure about your own future and that of your children.What is happening is not a war, rebellion or insurgency. It is mass killing and annihilation coupled with torture and brutal and barbaric dismembering of innocent people.

Bombing and shelling of towns goes ahead and no one gives a damn for the lives lost and property damaged.Politicians have not honored any of the promises they made during elections. There is a dangerous decline in the public services and government performance. The shock we have received since U.S. troops landed in our midst and the new is beyond description.Fear and terror have gripped the nation. Wherever you are at any time of the day you are liable to be killed by a stray bullet.

Stray bullets are no longer the prerogative of U.S. troops and their tormentors – the insurgents. Almost everyone in Iraq now use their guns to shoot in order to scare, wound or kill. If the bodyguards of a senior official want to reach a destination on time and are delayed by traffic jam, they fire in the air to scare other drivers to give way.If someone is injured or killed as a result it is his or her problem.

Killing by mistake is now perhaps one of the main causes of death in Iraq.Trust between the people and the government has collapsed. And now we are at the mercy of the stars because neither U.S. troops nor the government have the slightest idea of who is blowing up whom and why?

~~Thanks to the Downing Street Memos http://www.AfterDowningStreet.org, we now know George Bush's
invasion of Iraq in 2003 was based entirely on lies. Iraq had no stockpiles of WMD's or Al Qaeda ties, and Bush knew it. And Bush had no plans to rebuild Iraq after his invasion.

Two years later, Iraq is a bloody quagmire:

U.S. soldier deaths are nearing 2,000, over 13,000 have been maimed, and 30% of returning combat troops have serious mental health problems. At least 24,685 Iraqi civilians have been killed, possibly over 100,000 U.S. taxpayers have been burdened with $200 billion more in debt. Torture approved by the White House has made the world hate us The war has tripled global terrorism, not reduced it. Military retention and recruitment are down, making America weaker Because of these huge costs, the American people now oppose the war by 59%-39%. But George Bush stubbornly refuses to discuss a timetable for withdrawal - ignoring a request by 103 Iraqi Members of Parliament!

and Safire and Krauthammer and Perle and on and on and on...

Sarcasm

We need more real patriots to speak out!

:patriot: