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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:48 PM
Original message
American Psychological Association calls for retirement of American Indian
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The American Psychological Association called Wednesday for "the immediate retirement of all American Indian mascots, symbols, images and personalities by schools, colleges, universities, athletic teams and organizations."

The association's call comes as UND prepares to file a second appeal to the NCAA, which has ruled that the university cannot use its Fighting Sioux nickname and logo during NCAA postseason tournaments, and that it can't host postseason tournaments as long as it keeps the nickname.

The psychological association's Council of Representatives approved the call based on what it described as a growing body of social science literature that shows the harmful effects of racial stereotyping and inaccurate racial portrayals, according to a statement. The literature shows "particularly harmful effects of American Indian sports mascots on the social identity development and self-esteem of American Indian young people," the association said.

more...

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/12947613.htm
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nickyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. GREAT NEWS. FINALLY. n/t
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. the Seminole nation objected
to making the University of FL change its name and its symbol, Osceola. They said that the University was honoring their tribe and the memory of their great leader.

I know that the Lakota people I know don't like the term "Souix" because it is a French version of a perjorative given them by the Crow, I believe. So they could very justifiably have issues. However, I wonder about other tribes-shouldn't they be consulted?
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. what does that perjorative...
make "souixie and the banshees" translate to?
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Mithras61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. Hard to tell...
The term Sioux is itself derived from an Ojibwe term, nadouessioux , which means “little snakes” or “enemies.” (http://faculty.normandale.edu/~physics/Hollabaugh/Lakota/BriefHistory.htm)
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Snakes and Banshees! (nt)
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Um...that is Florida State University
not the University of Florida.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. thanks for the correction
There was a piece on NPR about this about a month ago, and I'd forgotten the name of the university.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. UF are the Gators.
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. So, should Sioux City, Iowa have to change its name ?

BTW, I have seen both spellings of Sioux around. Is one archaic ?
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Mascots, not town names.
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 02:18 PM by DesertedRose
The focus is on "the immediate retirement of all American Indian mascots, symbols, images and personalities by schools, colleges, universities, athletic teams and organizations."

As for town names, for example, Broken Arrow (OK) actually reperesents peace.

If "Sioux" is considered a pejorative (which is news to me), then let the Sioux decide whether the place name should be changed.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Not accusing, just asking, but does the Seminole nation
get any type of money from Florida State, or from sale of the gear, or do they get any money in sales in gift shops that might be stimulated by Florida State using their name?

Again, not accusing, just trying to learn the details before i decide on the issue.

I think all Native American names and symbols should be banned as mascots or team logos, too. Looks too much like the old minstrel shows to me. How can any people expect to be taken seriously when their very identity is made in a cartoon-like caricature? Even well-meaning ones are still creating stereotypes.

Look how much trouble America has had overcoming the racial stereotypes of African Americans. It's at the point, still, where racial profiling is accepted by some, and people like Bill Bennet can largely get away with implying that black people are disproportionately criminal compared to others. And that's not talking about the more subtle stereotypes, like black students being disciplined more harshly than whites, or undereducated, or denied jobs because they have to overcome a stereotype that most blacks are just lazy, or less intelligent. It isn't just southern rednecks with confederate flags that make racist assumptions--hell, even Bill Cosby does it, and he's black.

These stereotypes, even when not mean, lock in public perceptions that are damaging to the psyche of the stereotyped, and to the overall welfare of society. IMHO. Glad to see people finally standing up to them.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Having spent some time on the Micosukee Reservation...
As a guest ot The Tiger Brothers(look them up), I can say that those gentlemen have a nose for bidness, hence their objection to the changing of the name and mascot.

Please make of that what you will.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
41. It all depends upon how these names and mascots are used.
If the symbols (and attendant fan behavior) are respectful, and don't reinforce negative stereotypes, I'll have no problem with them.
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Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. I and others with A-A blood generally don't care
At least for those that are respectful.

Cleveland indians aren't too high on our list because of their choice of the way they make their mascot.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I'm a loyal Seminole fan
but I think the monotonous Seminole chop is offensive. The mascot, Chief Osceola, etc., honors the tribe...although I have read that the feathered spear and horse are not really Seminole in style.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. HOW ABOUT THIS ONE ??



THE "REDSKINS" or just plain "SKINS"

The Redskins
Fight Song

Hail to the
Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the warpath,
Fight for old D.C.!

Run or pass and score
We want a lot more!
Beat 'em Swamp 'em Touchdown
Let the points soar!

Fight on, Fight on,
Til you have won,
Sons of Wash-ing-ton!
Rah! Rah! Rah!







THEIR URL http://www.redskins.com/
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You know...that is offensive
I don't think to use the actual name of a tribe is, but "redskin"? Might as well say we will have a basketball team called "the N words"

Not good at all.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. I agree ...otherwise, let's call an NFL team "honkies" or "whities" or
rednecks or ...


You should see the town I live in. The mascot of the local high school is "Indians" and the marching band is "Band of Indians" and yet, some folks are quite racist around here ...always made me sort of sick to my stomach.
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. The Fightin' Whiteys!
The funniest response to this I've ever seen was the Fightin' Whiteys intramural basketball team at UNC.

Here's the story:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2002/03/11/sports1543EST0390.DTL

And here's the cafepress shop!

http://www.cafepress.com/fightinwhite/106
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. My wifes family generally agrees
They're Osage and consider most of the anti-mascot protests to be the work of a very small group of activists. Most Native Americans seem to see this as a non-issue.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Call me when they rename the Hochunk Casino in Wisconsin.
Hochunk. LOL. Somehow it describes some of their female patrons perfectly.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. I visited the Hochunk
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 03:17 PM by brentspeak
Once on a return trip from the Twin Cities. Lost $30 playing blackjack. Then drove back to the east coast, feeling stupid.
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Mithras61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. Actually, the tribe appears to be the Ho-Chunk...
or maybe Hotcak (pronounced as in eastern european pronunciation maybe?) which is the tribe's self-name. They are more commonly known as Winnebago. http://ho-chunknation.com/heritage/culture_history_page.htm

So why should they rename their casino?
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. a) Ho-Chunk is a silly word b) Casinos good/High Schools Bad?
How much sense does that make?
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
40. you mean that chunk o ho?.....sorry I couldn't resist
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freeplessinseattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. "Red Raiders" was the mascot
at a high school in Bellingham, WA. with the mascot wearing feathered headdress, of course. Finally maybe 10 or so years ago people started making enough of a fuss about it, but it was a big controversy, unbelievably enough. Raiders is bad enough, but "Red" Raiders??
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. "Red" Raiders is damn bad.
Isn't Texas Tech called the "Red" Raiders"?
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Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
33. Indeed, Tx Tech is the "Red Raiders"
But their mascot is a redheaded Yosemite Sam-type character.

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bmbmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
39. How about the "Ochre Raiders", then?
Scarlet? Crimson? Candy Apple?

Well, anyway- Guns Up!
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. "Red Neck Raiders" wouldn't even be appropriate!
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. Good...now will someone please get rid of Squaw Valley?
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. Maybe colleges and high schools can feel free to use
"red face" mascots after cops stop beating Indians to death in reservation states? How about that?
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. yep, I like that idea only if our native Americans agree with it.
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
21. Just for the heck of it
Our local Indians might refer to themselves as 'Skins'.

Notice I say "Our" local Indians as if we owned them. I guess in a way we white eyes do "Own" them after all we murdered many of them we defeated them, humiliated them, drove them to reservations, stole their heritage and their culture and their language and now we continue to heap shame upon them by making cartoon characters on the side of sports helmet, hats, shirts and anything else we can draw on.

My sister in law is an Indian. But first of all she is a person.

Rant over.

By the way I think Oceola was half white (A half breed as are my nieces) another derogatory insult. He too as were many Indian warriors was said to have been murdered at Fort Moultrie on Sullivans Island and to add insult to injury it is further claimed his skull was stolen from his grave there at the Fort.

180
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. "Halfbreed" IS an incredibly derogatory term
It's offensive and suggests that people of mixed races are somehow inferior to those of "one pure race". It smacks of Nazi racial purity ideals and should be expunged from the English language...I rank it right up there with the N word. There is NOTHING insulting about a person being of two racial backgrounds.
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Yes it is
and seldom heard around here.

180
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
22. PC police
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. Change their name to: The Whining Whiteys!
these people and their sick mascots can go to hell, their tradition means nothing. If they can see why it's wrong, too damn bad.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. I have less of a problem with using tribal names than perjoratives
If the Sioux are not accepting of UND's use of their name, fine. But as with the Seminoles, I think it should be up to the tribe.

But as for gross perjoratives (redskins), the use of the name of a particular Native American (Blackhawks), or the use of mocking or stereotyping logos (Cleveland Indians), there just not acceptable.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
32. In Canada - for the most part - we named cities with aboriginal names.
Ottawa, Toronto, I think Winnipeg & Quebec - even the word Canada some say has its roots in names for thing before Europeans arrived. Doesn't mean we didn't treat people horribly and stole their land and resources and then pushed them off treaties.

But yes - please - rename the teams or ask for a re-naming ceremony or something.

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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Fightin'' Illini
In Illinois this is a hot issue. the U of I teams are the "Fightin' Illini", named for a tribe for which the state is named. The real problem is "Chief Illiniwek", who dances during halftime. I really find it's an issue I can't get too upset about, but then, I went to ISU (Go 'birds!). My folks and sister went to the U of I, and insist that the dance is authentic and the costume is made by Native Americans. Either way, the NCAA wants it to stop.

Me, I'll worry about this two or three days after world peace kicks in and the hungry folks are complainin' of being too full. But that's me.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. If the planet could only take on one issue at a time - and solve it -
we'd all still be bacteria. Even nature can handle more than one problem at a time. So if we are "smarter than nature" we should be able to solve more than a few things.

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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. good point!
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Perhaps we are not smarter than nature. We've had the planet for
10,000 years and we are destroying it. Though Kurt V. says that perhaps the planet's immune system is fighting back against us humans (trying to expell us) and she will win in the end.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
44. If Disney can take Grimm's fairy tales & fables from Europe and market
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 07:39 PM by applegrove
and own them - don't we think the native american groups should have ownership of their 1)likeness 2) charge a fee if they dam well feel like it - and have the option of sponsoring kids teams with names & giving them elder talks?
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