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Exception Sought in Detainee Abuse Ban (WH 'insisting' a CIA exemption)

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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 09:40 PM
Original message
Exception Sought in Detainee Abuse Ban (WH 'insisting' a CIA exemption)
Edited on Mon Oct-24-05 09:42 PM by truthpusher
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/25/politics/25detain.html?oref=login


Exception Sought in Detainee Abuse Ban
--------------------
By ERIC SCHMITT
---------------------
WASHINGTON, Oct. 24 - Stepping up a confrontation with the Senate over the handling of detainees, the White House is insisting that the Central Intelligence Agency be exempted from a proposed ban on abusive treatment of suspected Qaeda militants and other terrorists.

The Senate defied a presidential veto threat nearly three weeks ago and approved, 90 to 9, an amendment to a $440 billion military spending bill that would ban the use of "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" of any detainee held by the United States government. This could bar some techniques that the C.I.A. has used in some interrogations overseas.

But in a 45-minute meeting last Thursday, Vice President Dick Cheney and the C.I.A. director, Porter J. Goss, urged Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican who wrote the amendment, to support an exemption for the agency, arguing that the president needed maximum flexibility in dealing with the global war on terrorism, according to two government officials who were briefed on the meeting. They spoke on condition of anonymity because of the confidential nature of the discussions.

Mr. McCain rejected the proposed exemption, which stated that the measure "shall not apply with respect to clandestine counterterrorism operations conducted abroad, with respect to terrorists who are not citizens of the United States, that are carried out by an element of the United States government other than the Department of Defense and are consistent with the Constitution and laws of the United States and treaties to which the United States is a party, if the president determines that such operations are vital to the protection of the United States or its citizens from terrorist attack."

(snip)



complete story: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/25/politics/25detain.html?oref=login
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 09:56 PM
Original message
This is obscene. n/t
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. what a schoolyard bully
I hope that he never gets dementia so that when his demons wake him in the middle of the night he remembers exactly what he did. May he be covered in flopsweat forever.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I hope, along with the photos, someone had the foresight to tape
the "interrogations," and that he somehow will be moved to listen to them, and that they will become a part of his inner world, on a replaying loop which will never leave him.

You're right, he shouldn't drift away into forgetfulness, like another MEpublican pResident.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. they probably did, but it wasn't due to foresight
I'm afraid, it was due to morbid sick pleasure. No, he shouldn't get to watch, only listen to the screams, played endlessly. Did I mention isolation cell? Left alone, completely alone, Pelican Bay alone with the screams. I think that would be one version of a good sentence.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. un-fucking-believable....
Bush and Cheney have no scruples whatsoever. They will destroy America.
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's scary we're actually having a national "Torture: pro or con" debate
What the fuck is wrong with people?
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MarsThe Cat Donating Member (978 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. that debate begins and ends with John McCain.
we are NOT North Vietnam.

and McCain will NOT back down.
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I've always liked John McCain
I've always liked John McCain. He's always seemed like one of those old school Republicans, the kind whose political beliefs I can at least respect, even if I don't agree with them.

Of course, I'm still never gonna vote for the guy, but at least his sense of morality isn't a owned by Haliburton, leased out by ExxonMobile, and based in the Caymans to avoid paying taxes.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. Never forget the sappy hug he gave Bush or the Birthday cake he
got from George this year. They both partied while Katrina was bearing down on New Orleans. of the lot of them, McCain has the least offensive persona, but, like you, I would never trust him....and certainly never vote for him.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Have you no shame, sir?
These guys are so brazen it boggles the mind.
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. I hope McCain sticks to his guns so the bastard can weigh his 1st veto
I'd like to see him (Bush)have to back down for once.
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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. ACLU Reports 21 Homicides in U.S. Custody
Edited on Mon Oct-24-05 10:28 PM by Fluffdaddy
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. George wants to torture people
It's that simple: GOP, the party of torture. Since it's not their sons and daughters in combat, they have nothing to fear from reprisals and repercussions for torturing folks. Their kids aren't the ones who are going to be beheaded on video or have flaming bamboo shoots shoved under their fingernails.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
12. WP: Cheney Plan Exempts CIA From Bill Barring Abuse of Detainees
Cheney Plan Exempts CIA From Bill Barring Abuse of Detainees

By R. Jeffrey Smith and Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, October 25, 2005; Page A01

The Bush administration has proposed exempting employees of the Central Intelligence Agency from a legislative measure endorsed earlier this month by 90 members of the Senate that would bar cruel and degrading treatment of any prisoners in U.S. custody.

The proposal, which two sources said Vice President Cheney handed last Thursday to Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) in the company of CIA Director Porter J. Goss, states that the measure barring inhumane treatment shall not apply to counterterrorism operations conducted abroad or to operations conducted by "an element of the United States government" other than the Defense Department.

Although most detainees in U.S. custody in the war on terrorism are held by the U.S. military, the CIA is said by former intelligence officials and others to be holding several dozen detainees of particular intelligence interest at locations overseas -- including senior al Qaeda figures Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaida.

Cheney's proposal is drafted in such a way that the exemption from the rule barring ill treatment could require a presidential finding that "such operations are vital to the protection of the United States or its citizens from terrorist attack." But the precise applicability of this section is not clear, and none of those involved in last week's discussions would discuss it openly yesterday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/24/AR2005102402051.html
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. does he not realize that by the end of the week
he will be a certified terrorist?
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Cheney is bad news
he has to be gone
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JackieO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Sick Dick
Get lost, creep.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. the word evil comes to mind when I read stuff like this. Blantant evil.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. nominated. Cheney name should be all over the headlines with this story
as it will be about the leak.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. kick
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. gosh, conveniently enough the ones running our secret prisons
cough copper green cough cough.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. Cheney Plan Exempts CIA From Bill Barring Abuse of Detainees
so dick's cia wants to abuse prisoners ...hmmmm...

Tuesday, October 25, 2005; Page A01

The Bush administration has proposed exempting employees of the Central Intelligence Agency from a legislative measure endorsed earlier this month by 90 members of the Senate that would bar cruel and degrading treatment of any prisoners in U.S. custody.

The proposal, which two sources said Vice President Cheney handed last Thursday to Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) in the company of CIA Director Porter J. Goss, states that the measure barring inhumane treatment shall not apply to counterterrorism operations conducted abroad or to operations conducted by "an element of the United States government" other than the Defense Department.

Although most detainees in U.S. custody in the war on terrorism are held by the U.S. military, the CIA is said by former intelligence officials and others to be holding several dozen detainees of particular intelligence interest at locations overseas -- including senior al Qaeda figures Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaida.

more...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/24/AR2005102402051_pf.html
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
22. For the president of the United States
to insist that he has the right to order that prisoners be tortured is the lowest moral stance this country has ever publicly taken. We have absolutely no right, after this, to dictate anything whatsoever regarding human rights to other countries. Remember, when no WMDs were found, and regime change was the flavor of the day? Saddam...gasp, shock...TORTURED his own people. Now, bully Bush wants to do the same.

How anyone in this country can still claim that this sorry excuse for a human is a good man defies all logic and common sense. Compassionate conservative? It's easy now to understand why he can give tax breaks to the wealthy, at the expense of the poor and middle class. A man capable of endorsing torture has no conscience, and has no business being president, much less dog catcher.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. Negotiators on torture legislation feel pressure from White House
Edited on Tue Oct-25-05 09:23 PM by struggle4progress
<edit:> By Liz Sidoti
ASSOCIATED PRESS

12:34 p.m. October 25, 2005

WASHINGTON – Congressional negotiators are feeling heat from the White House and constituents as they consider whether to back a Senate-approved ban on torturing detainees in U.S. custody or weaken it as the White House prefers.
Led by Vice President Dick Cheney, the Bush administration is floating a proposal that would allow the president to exempt covert agents outside the Defense Department from the prohibition.

Meanwhile, some newspapers are calling for lawmakers to support Sen. John McCain's provision that would ban the use of "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" against anyone in U.S. government custody, regardless of where they are held.

"There's a lot of public pressure to retain the language intact. At the same time, there's pressure from the vice president's office to modify it," said Tom Malinowski, the Washington advocacy director for Human Rights Watch, which supports McCain's provision. <snip>

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20051025-1234-congress-detainees.html
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. CIA should be able to engage in torture, Cheney claims
http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=008c6795436814ea

Through U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney, the Bush administration is seeking to exempt the CIA from anti-torture provisions outlined in a Senate bill.

Last Thursday, Cheney and CIA Director Porter Goss met with the bill's sponsor, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in a bid to make the exception for national security reasons, The Washington Post said.

On Oct. 5, the Senate voted 90 to 9 to attach to the amended version of the pending $440 billion defense appropriations bill. McCain's provision faces stiff opposition in the House, which did not include similar language in its version of the spending bill, and the White House has threatened to veto any bill that includes the McCain provision, contending that it would bind the president's hands in wartime.

more...

Cheney is one sick bastard!!!
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