Sarkozy orders deportation of foreign rioters

Sarkozy orders deportation of foreign rioters


PARIS, Nov 9 (AFP) - Interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy on Wednesday issued orders for non-French rioters convicted in the wave of urban violence to be deported -- a measure directed at youths of Arab and African background living in the high-immigrant neighbourhoods involved in the unrest.

Sarkozy told prefects, or regional governors, to apply the order to foreigners including those who have valid French residency visas.

He told parliament that "120 foreigners, not all of whom are here illegally, have been convicted" of taking part in the nightly rampages that have occurred since October 27.

"I have asked the prefects to deport them from our national territory without delay, including those
who have a residency visa," he said.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=25&story_id=25193&name=Sarkozy+orders+deportation+of+foreign+rioters

That will fix everything.

:eyes: Fucking moran.

If a guest in your house starts breaking the furniture, what do you do? I bet you'd tell him it's time to leave, regardless of skin color. And tell me, if you were visiting Italy or Russia or China or any other country, would you be rioting in their country? If you aren't a citizen, I think it would be very appropriate to respect that country's laws. And if you have a gripe with that country, then why are you there in the first place if you're not a citizen? What does it have to do with skin color when someone is rioting and they aren't even a citizen?

Let me ask you: If you don't like China's record on human rights, which is deplorable, do you get to go there and throw molotov cocktails around for 10 days or so and not expect them to deport you?

Unfortunately, you would probably rot in prison.

And a lot of countries would treat it the same way

that from what I have read so far, the French govt seems more willing to pretend the problem isn't there, or isn't their fault, rather then try to fix it.

the fact that these people are fucking up the whole country.

We wouldn't tolerate that, especially from guests!

Plus, I think that the violence/anarchy is absolutely the wrong way to seek justice in this matter. They'll never be able to get the public on their side, which they will need to do, if they keep throwing bricks and setting shit on fire/

(Why do I get the idea that this is NOT going to help the situation? For those who are just joining this story, this is the guy who called all the people living in these rioting neighborhoods "Scum," who should be flushed out with a high pressure hose.)

France to expel foreign rioters

Wed Nov 9, 2005 01:26 PM ET

PARIS (Reuters) - French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy has ordered the expulsion of all foreigners convicted of involvement in two weeks of urban riots. Sarkozy, who has previously thrown radical Muslim preachers out of the country for breaching French laws, told the National Assembly lower house of parliament on Wednesday that 122 foreigners had been convicted of playing a role in the unrest.

"I have asked prefects that foreigners here legally or illegally, who have been convicted (over the unrest) be expelled without delay from our territory," he said of the top government officials who oversee France's 96 administrative districts. The order would also include those who have a residency permit, Sarkozy said.

"For when one has the honor of having a residency permit, the least one can say is that one shouldn't be going around getting arrested for provoking urban violence," he said. Sarkozy did not give the nationalities of any of the foreigners whose expulsion he had ordered, and did not say how many would be expelled.

<http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=10220458§ion=news>
(more at link above)

It sounds as though he's contributed to the problem.

:hi:

...while I'm not a big fan of his policies, he's doing the right thing, at least with regards to the illegal immigrants there.

A lot of people like to draw parallels between the North African population living in France, and African Americans, and in this case in light of the Rodney King riots. Most African Americans living in the US did not choose to come here -- they were brought here against their wishes.

What would you think if illegal immigrants here started rioting and destroying public property. Wouldn't you want them expelled, or would you want them processed in an expensive, possibly racist, and certainly time-consuming legal system?

Not trying to start a flame war, just my opinion.

That's why I hate the designation AA. After four hundred years, it's time we admited they're ALL American.

However, I believe the label was created from within, not from without.

Ultimately, all labels serve to divide, not unite, as they remind us of differences, and downplay what we hold in common.

When I come to the part on government forms that specify race, I always skip the check-boxes, and write in my own answer as "human".


Peace

... as a whole. It's not a later addition imported from elsewhere.

France without its North Africans would be different than it is today, but it would still be France. America without blacks would be some other culture entirely.

So I agree with you that role of the nearly four-centuries-old black population in America and the role of North African immigrants in France are actually quite different.

African-American is a term that would much more appropriately be applied to recent immigrants to the US from Africa.

...but in a country without enough police to handle the riots they already have, and since most of the rioter site the comments of this guy as the reason they are still rioting, comments like this by this guy, are just going to fuel an already out of control situation.

This, unless they are ready to send in the tanks, is going to fuel more, and larger riots, just wait 'till tonight, you'll see.

At this point, this guy should either resign, or just shut the hell up.

If someone is on a visa or with no visa in any country, the country has the right to deport, revoke the visa at will, etc.

.

Aren't some of the rioters French citizens? If they start expelling everyone who doesn't look French, more than illegals will go. Of course, the French nativists will be pleased. Anyone who may have committed a crime should be charged & go through the legal system.

The same goes for everyone in the USA & our overseas Empire. There should not be a "separate" legal system for non-citizens--in Texas or in Guantanamo.

African-Americans now alive neither came here nor were brought. They were born here.

I specifically mentioned illegal immigrants in my support of the policy.

Expelling illegal immigrants when they commit a crime precisely precludes having to process them through a legal system for "non-citizens," as you put it.

How do we "know" someone has committed a crime if they have not been indicted, tried & convicted?

There should be NO separate legal system for anyone.

"Interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy on Wednesday issued orders for non-French rioters convicted in the wave of urban violence to be deported"

Sarkozy told prefects, or regional governors, to apply the order to foreigners including those who have valid French residency visas.

Gee, maybe if the repukes get wind of this they'll change their minds about the French. :sarcasm:

There may well be immigrants and non-citizens in that mix, including some illegals. But many may be teenagers who cannot leave on their own without their parents. And it's not illegals or foreign-born beurs who are causing this. Maybe a few are involved, here and there, but probably not the vast majority.

Check out Juan Cole today - he has a very good posting on the subject: http://www.juancole.com

During the Algerian war for freedom, the French instituted a draft in Algeria and forced many Algerians to fight their own people under the French flag. The Algerians who were fighting for independence declared these Algerian conscriptees traitors and announced that they would all be executed.

When the French pulled out at the end of the war, they were faced with the problem of what to do with these conscriptees. They had the choice of bringing them to France, or leaving them in Algeria to die. They brought them to France...those were the ancestors of many of the north Africans in France today.

Those people were essentially forced out of their homeland and into France against their wills. They were made to fight against thier wills for a foreign power, and were then forced to flee to that same power to save their own lives. While the French didn't exactly turn these people into slaves, they're just as guilty of destroying their lives and forcing them into a strange land as the slavecatchers of old were.

The French generally understand this, by the way, which is why they've always been fairly generous with the welfare benefits and immigration policies offered to Algerians. Many French feel a collective social shame for what happened and have spent decades trying to "make it right". Unfortunatly, making it right didn't include actually integrating them into their society.

...The son of a Hungarian immigrant, and a mother whose family was Greek and Jewish, he was never the classic insider. And unusually, one of his main political influences is not French but British, according to his other biographer, Nicolas Domenach.... <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3673102.stm>

Rather ironic, huh?

I must have missed that.

Still not nice maybe, but not the same.

But let's be real here, there were innocent people simply trying to put out dumpster fires started by the rioters who were bludgeoned to death. This really needs to be answered. In interview after interview on French TV, a huge mix of all races and ages living in the areas where the rioting occurred were against what happened labeling it "senseless" time after time but with many suggesting better ways the plight of young disaffected boys and young men could have been dealt with. But this is Sarkozy running for president, pure and simple, and given his tough guy stance above all else he has failed the public. It should have been leavened with some words of understanding.

I don't care if you are Nordic blonde, if you are a foreigner convicted of a crime in the USA you're outa here. Part of this is certainly rascist in nature because of European fears of an exploding Muslim population. See this article:

Given continued immigration and high Muslim fertility rates, the National Intelligence Council projects that Europe's Muslim population will double by 2025.

Unlike their U.S. counterparts, who entered a gigantic country built on immigration, most Muslim newcomers to western Europe started arriving only after World War II, crowding into small, culturally homogenous nations. Their influx was a new phenomenon for many host states and often unwelcome. Meanwhile, North African immigrants retained powerful attachments to their native cultures. So unlike American Muslims, who are geographically diffuse, ethnically fragmented, and generally well off, Europe's Muslims gather in bleak enclaves with their compatriots: Algerians in France, Moroccans in Spain, Turks in Germany, and Pakistanis in the United Kingdom.
more ...
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050701faessay84409/robert-s-leiken/europe-s-angry-muslims.html

They haven't done a single thing right since the riots started.

Please read my post above

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1912691&mesg_id=1913057

For quelling the riots, no.

From the New York Times, February 27, 2005, Sunday ...

The answer, increasingly, is yes. This small nation is a magnet for immigrants, but statistics suggest there is a quickening flight of the white middle class. Dutch people pulling up roots said they felt a general pessimism about their small and crowded country and about the social tensions that had grown along with the waves of newcomers, most of them Muslims."The Dutch are living in a kind of pressure cooker atmosphere," Mr. Hiltemann said.

There is more than the concern about the rising complications of absorbing newcomers, now one-tenth of the population, many of them from largely Muslim countries. Many Dutch also seem bewildered that their country, run for decades on a cozy, political consensus, now seems so tense and prickly and bent on confrontation. Those leaving have been mostly lured by large English-speaking nations like Australia, New Zealand and Canada, where they say they hope to feel less constricted.

In interviews, emigrants rarely cited a fear of militant Islam as their main reason for packing their bags. But the killing of the filmmaker Theo van Gogh, a fierce critic of fundamentalist Muslims, seems to have been a catalyst.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40D1FFE3E590C748EDDAB0894DD404482

Hey--I can make a link too!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1912691&mesg_id=1913227

What a dumbass.

If you aren't a citizen, you're a guest allowed to stay at the sufference of the host nation. I don't see any reason why that sufference should be extended to criminals*.

*If he were proposing to deport people before they'd had their day in court, I'd have a problem with that, but he isn't.

Completely irrelevant measure, aside from the repetition of the "scum/riff-raff" message it reiterates but without stating it. It's a confession of powerlessness, and blindness, disguised as a tough legalistic stance. Typical of the little man, who, albeit more intelligent than the Idiot (which is not very difficult) is an asshole of very similar caliber.

- everyone tired of the right-wing talking points spouted by uninformed rabble rousers should read this -

>>

Rage in the Banlieue

By DIANA JOHNSTONE

Montmartre, Paris.

(...)

5. The Sarkozy factor.

As the whole world must know by now, Nicolas Sarkozy, former mayor of the opulent Western Paris suburb of Neuilly (nothing to do with the banlieue!), wants to be President of the French Republic. Not a day goes by without seeing him, as Interior Minister, rushing here and there in front of television cameras, busy, busy, busy. His naked ambition borders the pathological. His strategy, however, has been calculated, and until recently has looked ominously successful, as he managed to take over the UMP (Union de la Majorité Présidentielle), supposed to be the party of President Jacques Chirac, and turned it against him.

This strategy has included a move to win over the electorate of the National Front, which hates Gaullists in general and Chirac in particular. The key to this is, of course, emphasizing "security". But cleverly enough, Sarkozy has combined this with a bid to woo French Muslims, and other religions, by taking his distance from French secularism to call for dialogue with religious leaders. This fits with his pro-American neoliberal economic preferences -- full throttle privatization and deregulation -- inasmuch as the shelter of identity communities is the necessary substitute for the abandoned welfare state.

Enforcing the law is the job of an Interior Minister. But after withdrawal of the "proximity police", put in by the previous Socialist government in order to develop contact with the community (for too short a time to be tested), Sarkozy has favored spectacular raids by heavily decked out police squads that act as provocations. To grab maximum media attention, he has strutted through troubled banlieues announcing his determination to clean up the "rabble" (racaille).

This performance is surely a significant factor in the riots. It also provides a unifying theme for the left: Sarkozy must resign! The conservative government is virtually obliged for the moment to give a show of unity, but whenever it is convenient, one can be sure that both Chirac and his protégé, prime minister Dominique de Villepin, would be simply delighted to throw Sarkozy to the wolves.

(...)


http://www.counterpunch.com/johnstone11092005.html

People who visit someone else's country and engage in violence should get the boot.

It's not like they're deporting French citizens.

France did this all to itself with its decades of lax immigration policies.