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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 05:59 PM
Original message
Army reaches low, fills ranks: 12% of recruits in Oct. had lowest scores
Army reaches low, fills ranks
12% of recruits in Oct. had lowest acceptable scores
By Tom Bowman
Sun reporter

WASHINGTON // The number of new recruits who scored at the bottom of the Army's aptitude test tripled last month, Pentagon officials said, helping the nation's largest armed service meet its October recruiting goal but raising concerns about the quality of the force.

Former Army Secretary Thomas E. White said the service was making a mistake by lowering its standards. "I think it's disastrous. You are throwing the towel in on recruiting quality," said White, a retired general whom Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld fired in 2003 over other policy differences.

"We have clear experience from the 1970s with recruiting a sizable number of people from the lowest mental categories," said White. After the Vietnam War, the Army accepted a higher proportion of low-scoring recruits, leading to training and discipline problems, he added.

To achieve last month's recruiting targets, 12 percent of those accepted by the Army had the lowest acceptable results. They scored between 16 and 30 points out of a possible 99 on an aptitude test that quizzes potential soldiers on general science, mathematics and word knowledge.

No more than 4 percent of all recruits can come from that lowest category, according to Pentagon limits. Army officials insisted they would still meet the 4 percent goal - despite the October spike - when numbers are tallied for an entire year. October is the first month of the service's fiscal year, which will end Sept. 30, 2006.

"We're on track to meet our 4 percent annual goal," said Lt. Col. Brian Hilferty, a spokesman for Army personnel. He declined to comment on the 12 percent figure. "It's very early in the year," he said.

(more)

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.recruit08nov08,1,1130565.story?coll=bal-home-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true



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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. The World's Only Superpower
:rofl:
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. "will the exam be curved?"
Yes, 16% is passing. Yippee. Talk about grade inflation.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
47. You can get four out of five answers WRONG and STILL get in?
Edited on Thu Nov-10-05 03:33 PM by rocknation
:wow:

Well, if they think they're having recruiting problems NOW, wait until THIS gets out! How do they expect to convince better-qualified to join a military filled with doofuses???

:headbang:
rocknation
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CStrick20 Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. I am not 100% sure
But i think that test from 0 to 99% is not a normally graded test. Its a test based on the people who take it and re ajusted every 5 years. Thats the Percentile that they scored, but i am not 100% sure
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. I'll re-phrase the question, your honor
"You can get EIGHTY PER CENT of the answers WRONG and STILL get in?"

P.S. Welcome to DU, CStrick20!

:hi:
rocknation
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afdip Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. rummy's rationale is that if we send them to iraq immediately
many of them will be killed and the army won't have the disciplinary problems later . . .perfect repuke/pnac logic.
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joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh good, a professional army manned by morons.
To hear Rummie tell it, they're highly trained, highly skilled, highly motivated patriotic defenders of truth, justice, and the American way.

I'm so tired of spin and bullshit like this. I was in the army at the tail end of Vietnam when the brass hats were trying to inaugurate
the "All-Volunteer Army" (VOLAR). The people that were coming in were the total pits. "It's deja vu all over again."
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. How true. I read once that RumsFailed had called
the army "Kids who can't aim". Just imagine that. RumsFool himself is the CIVILIAN leader of the armed forces, and he says crap like that about his own people.

Just imagine the mutual lack of respect.

RumsFathead is a complete idiot.
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CRK7376 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. Careful now!!!
Some of those that enlisted in the 70s are not stupid, the pits etc...I enlisted in '77, got commissioned in '83 and have never in my life voted for a Repub....I despise Bush and what he and his cronies have done to the military. We're worn out, our equipment when we get it, is also worn out and the endless cycle of deployments...well it's taken a huge toll on our forces across the board, especially the Guard and Reservists. All military personnel are not Bushbots, we don't all go around loving the Repubs, so please be careful slamming the Volunteer Army/Military.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
57. My experience is quite different
They called them McNamara's Morons

Google the term

There were a lot of semi toothless rustics killing anyone who crossed their path. They make up the the bulk of "homeless vets" today

LBJ and other jails were full of them

I have no doubt there a a lot of these "rustics" joining up to KILL (Insert Racial Epithet here)
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. A main reason I volunteered for the boats
was to get off surface craft and out from under the supervision of numbskull bosses with a 3rd grade education. They were my supervisors whether I liked it or not because they had rank over me. At least on the boats a high school diploma was required, and thus a lot of the military chickenshit went away.

Lowering the standards will get competent GI's killed in battle situations.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Ding ding ding! We have a winner.
Lowering the standards will get competent GI's killed in battle situations.

:banghead:
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
54. battle stations - smattle stations: Rummy needs warm bodies
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. How would like to be the Drill Instructor for those guys?
:wow::banghead:
You'd have an anusism after 2 weeks.
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CStrick20 Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
38. Id rather be a drill instructor for those guys
Than a group of scores all in the 90's. Dumb people take orders... and dont ask many questions.
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. These people are too dumb to comprehend those orders though
IMHO
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Oh - so maybe some freepers actually do enlist
Would not take many to really bring the average down.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. Beggars can't be choosers
And even though we're spending over a billion dollars a day, every day, on the military and national defense, this is the best we can afford.

Because Unka Dick gots to get paid.
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. kind of reminds me of Dimson
back in 68' when he was gratiously allowed to jump 500 waiting applicants hoping for a spot in the National Guard.When the "boy king"
took his flight test he scored a hot 25,not bad except 25 was the lowest possible passing grade for pilot.He not only jumped 500 people
but was allowed to skip "flight candidate school" thats a must except for those whose had other qualities ie.engineers,intelligence etc.
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elfin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. and where is the "no soldier left behind" bill
to help them pass proficiency tests ---- and provide the armor and beneifits needed?
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. "We have clear experience from the 1970s..."
STOP THE PRESSES!

That's your problem, the key phrase: clear experience

* doesn't do history.
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's been going on a long, long time...
... in the `60s, when the AFQT was something like a max of 160 or 175, when the demand for bodies was very large, the Army lowered the standard to a passing grade of 12 or 13. I saw people get in with scores of between 2 and 5 because they were volunteering to be pathfinders.

The rules have always been there to be bent....
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. I Hear the Bottom of the Barrel Being Scraped, and I Feel a Draft


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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. It doesn't take any smarts to pull a trigger
In fact, real intelligence can be a liability to cannon fodder. They don't want 'em to stop and think at the critical moment.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. To achieve a 16 out of a possible 99 all one has to do is sign the
dotted line with ones name.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. Self Delete.
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 09:26 PM by VegasWolf
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
18. So sad. Those poor kids are just cannon fodder. n/t
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
42. yep, alot of poor uneducated kids join the army since other
opportunities are limited.

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. great! This means my freeper nephew qualifies!!!
and I am sure they will help him pass the drug test cuz he is a pot smoker!

:woohoo: Mikey! I am brining you some enlistment forms for christmas baby! You are going to put your signature where your chikenhawk mouth is!
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. And they still outscored AWOLbush!!
EOM!!
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ignatius 2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. How freakin' pathetic and what an outrage..the army is recruting the
mentally disabled.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. "Congratulations son. You're stupid enough to
use deadly weapons."

Great. That's just fuggin great.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ah yes, the 'low-lying Lynndie England fruit"
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 07:30 PM by Canuckistanian
I think Bill Maher should be get an apology.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
24. Does being able to tie your own shoes give you an edge?
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. Wow
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 08:44 PM by superconnected
"They scored between 16 and 30 points out of a possible 99 on an aptitude test that quizzes potential soldiers on general science, mathematics and word knowledge"

That's bad.


Wonder if it's multiple choice. Getting 20 on a 100 question multiple choice with 5 possible answers for each question is the same as chosing all the answers randomly. It would mean it doesn't matter how low someone is, if they take the test even guessing every answer- they're still admitted.
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joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. If they're anything like the tests I took, yeah, they're multiple
choice. These guys are illiterate and borderline retarded. I'm not exaggerating on this at all.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Yep. You could simply randomly mark the multiple choice
test without reading the questions and the odds are you would do BETTER than 16 out of 99.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Ouch!
That's scary.

There again, employing mentally deficient soldiers tends to reduce the
chance of any moral concerns interfering with their "duty" ... if they
have little understanding of English, Maths or Science just how capable
are they of understanding "right" & "wrong"?

"Sivilian? wots wunof them? Thems just targets..."
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CStrick20 Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. I took it
about a year and a half ago, the test was extremely simple, i was considering joining the navy at the time. I scored a 97 Hung over. I pulled out of the Navy's Nuclear Engineering Program before i went to boot cause the chimp got re-elected. Oh yeah it is mult. choice and when i was signing up 85% of the people i was in the room with signing up had scores lower than 50. They were from poor areas (mainly philadelphia) and they really had no clue what they were getting into.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
27. dumb soldiers in this technological world is scary!!!
ya the army has been demoralized!!!
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
32. Well, I guess I finally understand now...
Edited on Thu Nov-10-05 06:58 AM by theHandpuppet
... why most kids who are truly interested in signing up for the military in order to earn their college money (or for high-tech training) join the Navy or Air Force, which I assume still retain some standards for basic mental competence.

How many times have we heard the MSM tell us that these kids are signing up for Army duty in Iraq to earn money for college? Hell, some of these kids couldn't qualify for a GED, much less get ADMITTED to a university.

Lowering the standards to this degree endangers ALL soldiers on our front lines. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be an officer leading a collection of nitwits into battle.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
33. Just like their new boss.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
34. The Army might want my barely literate cousin now...
he tried to get into the Army about 4 years ago. He was rejected because he flunked the tests.

Poor kid had a terrible mother who forced the school district to pass him even though he needed special help. She rejected the help for him saying..."I don't want him "labeled""...

He is a good kid but now he bums around looking for work and can barely read...couldn't even read a birthday card someone gave him...(makes me very sad...)
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
35. Beavis and Butthead in the army
Hey Beavis they're gonna give us guns and stuff, that will be cool, huh huh huh.
Yeah explosions rock, they rock.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
36. So this guy's a psychic, then.
Well, nice to know that he sees lots more people volunteering over the next 11 months.
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Dulcinea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
37. They also take juvenile delinquents.
Edited on Thu Nov-10-05 01:01 PM by Dulcinea
A guy I know, who was in trouble with the law through most of his youth, was ordered by a judge to join the Army or go to jail.

He chose the Army. Bet we'll see a lot more of that.

And most juvenile delinquents probably aren't borderline retarded.
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twaddler01 Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #37
56. can't we send them all to the front lines?
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
39. The only way to get those numbers up is via encouragement.
And the only way to do that is create mass joblessness.

:think:
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
41. It's actually MUCH worse than most of us think.
Edited on Thu Nov-10-05 01:26 PM by dicksteele
I HIGHLY recommend this article:
"The Recruiter's War", by Michael Bronner
FULL TEXT at:
http://www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/printables/051031roco02?print=true

All the recruiters he interviewed had "horror stories"
about breaking the rules to enlist unqualified recruits.
Not once or twice, but EVERY DAMN DAY.

One recruiter , Sgt. Jimmy Massey, stated ON THE RECORD:
"Out of 75 kids I put in the Marine Corps,
70 of them were fraudulent enlistments"

Good SNIP regarding drug testing:
>>>There were only 11 new recruits on the board.
He swiveled around and started tapping photographs
with his index finger.
"Yes. Yes. No … Yes. Yes … No," and so on.
He was pointing out which new recruits went into the army
despite having "pissed hot" for drugs.
It's 7 of 11. >>>
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I will not agree with your broad statement...
When you say "i came to realize how much a joke America is and how its not worth fighting for"

The USA is not a PLACE, it is an IDEA, and it's
an idea well worth fighting for.

But I think I get what you are saying:
The current state of affairs is a JOKE, because it
is diametrically opposed to what the USA is supposed to be.
And the Armed Services are certainly being used
to make money for a priveledged elite few these days,
NOT to defend our borders or our principles.

Congrats on leaving the service alive; a lot of brave
Americans have not been so lucky.
And they aren't exactly ALLOWED to leave these days.

AMERICA is well worth fighting for...
but the truly important battles are happening here
at home these days.
We are fighting HARD against a determined, devoted enemy.
An ENEMY which has spent decades spreading quietly
into every organ of the Political Body.

We Freedom-Loving PATRIOTS are not fighting an invading military
force; we are fighting a political and socioeconomic VIRUS.
And the weapons battling for our Nations soul are not rifles and bombs,
they are COMMON SENSE and PUBLIC OPINION.
Both of which are MUCH trickier to use than any gun.

Let me cut my RANT short by saying:
WELCOME to DU!:hi:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
belab13 Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
50. Very sad that we are having this discussion
Nobody should have to die in such a futile fashion , let alone those who cannot grasp the consequences of potentially involving themelves in this military misadventure
-all in the name of bolstering the profit margins of the corporate defense-energy complex.
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CStrick20 Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. As Bad as it sounds....
Most of those knucklehead troops vote for Dubya and the Republicans... Its hard to feel bad... A kid who i knew since i was six and was on my wrestling team died over there in aug. one of the nicest kids i ever knew.... but his support for bush and this war... made me not care as much..
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
53. General Science? So, Intelligent Design Is Not The Right Answer?
God made everything is not the right answer to all science questions?

What's a Kansas boy to do?
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twaddler01 Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
55. they are grasping at straws
noboby wants to get killed in Iraq, it doesn't take an idiot to know that....
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
59. What the hell does anyone expect?
Edited on Thu Nov-10-05 07:22 PM by depakid
Intelligent people aren't lining up in droves to join the army...

Gee, do ya think?

Maybe the prospect of spending years in shitholes like Iraq and Afghanistan- only to be treated like dirt when you get back by the right wing politicians who sent you there has something to do with it.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
61. Full Medal Jacket it is ... Private Pile, show me your stuff?!?
Ladies and Gentlemen, The Military and the American People are now truly in for a world of shit!

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