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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 07:36 PM
Original message
Faux: Methodist Bishops Repent Iraq War 'Complicity'
Methodist Bishops Repent Iraq War 'Complicity'
By Kaukab Jhumra Smith

WASHINGTON — Ninety-five bishops from President Bush's church said Thursday they repent their "complicity" in the "unjust and immoral" invasion and occupation of Iraq.

"In the face of the United States administration's rush toward military action based on misleading information, too many of us were silent," said a statement of conscience signed by more than half of the 164 retired and active United Methodist bishops worldwide.

President Bush is a member of the United Methodist Church, according to various published biographies. The White House did not return a request for comment on the bishops' statement.

Although United Methodist leadership has opposed the Iraq war in the past, this is the first time that individual bishops have confessed to a personal failure to publicly challenge the buildup to the war.

...

"We confess our preoccupation with institutional enhancement and limited agendas while American men and women are sent to Iraq to kill and be killed, while thousands of Iraqi people needlessly suffer and die, while poverty increases and preventable diseases go untreated," the statement said.

(more)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175245,00.html


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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. I just want to emphasize this part, because it will probably be
overlooked:

"Although United Methodist leadership HAS OPPOSED THE IRAQ WAR IN THE PAST, this is the first time that individual bishops have confessed to a personal failure to publicly challenge the buildup to the war."

(Good for them.)
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Thank you for pointing that out, DesertedRose!
The UM Council of Bishops has opposed the Iraq war from the start. The leadership of the council asked to meet with Bush before the invasion, to give him their input, and their spiritual guidance, and were turned away.

As long as it suits his political agenda, this (p)resident is perfectly willing to pretend to be a religious man. When it may not turn out the way he wants it, though, he wants absolutely nothing to do with the leaders of the denomination to which he pretends to belong.

Let me clue you in, Mr. President! God's will is GOD'S will....not George's will! God's will is not always convenient, Mr. President. Sometimes it doesn't blend with our own. God is NOT one of your Cabinet members, Mr. President! God is NOT subject to your will. You claim to be subject to God's will......PROVE IT!!!! Take a lead from your Bishops and repent.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. that's going to be a shock to robertson :)
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Oh, I know...Poor Pat....
I can barely type because my fingers are all wet with the tears I'm shedding for poor, poor Pat!

OK....I'm over it! Now...here is another shock for Patty boy!

First, Pat....I'm going to ask you to stop referring to God as "He"...God has no gender, Pat....God is God.

Next...What if the people of Dover have ELEVATED God, not diminished God? God is not a science. What if they are saying God is WAY too complex to be taught in a science class? Our children, and we, for that matter, cannot even begin to comprehend God's Realm.....How do you teach that in a science class? Teach science in science class. Contemplate God in an more appropriate place....Give God the deference God deserves....

Oh, and by the way, Pat....Like it or not, this really is still America....We have a right to believe or not believe....as we see fit....and it is OUR RIGHT to determine if we want to teach our children about God OR NOT!!!! Teach science in science class.

I know you are not a UM, Pat...but you might do well to follow the lead of those Bishops too....Repent, Pat

....OK...rant over.....! Phew! I feel MUCH better now.
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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Yep, hope others can do the same.
It is that serious and people need to wake up.

These are good people and they are able to admit their complicity even though they hadn't supported the war. They supported it by being silent... they know it enough to not want it to stain their souls.

Thats as big a hint as I know, we'll see if they get it.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
32. I seem to recall at the time Bush*'s own minister was denied access to
Whitehouse and to Bush* before the start of the war. Bush* the holy would not see his own Minister. There was in fact quite a bit about Methodist Ministers opposed to the war.
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just a girl Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's about time.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. What's 'about time'?
When Bush launched the Iraq War back in 2003, the United Methodist church made an official statement castigating him over it. Today's announcement by the church is really unneeded, as it more than did its job in denouncing the war.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. That's right, they spoke out early.
It's good that they continue to do so.
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. If it's "unneeded", why is it there?
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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. They obviously felt it was needed, why don't you?
Im assuming you are not a UMC minister so how could you know its not needed.

Im just confused as to how you came to that. Seems to me a minister would know pretty dang well whether they needed to or not. Don't you agree?

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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Chastised by more than half of his church's bishops.
Shame shame shame.
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Gato Moteado Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. too little too late.....
any christian that doesn't openly oppose war at all times is not a true christian. period.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. They spoke out, ran ads and teamed with MoveOn against the war
Published on Friday, January 31, 2003 by the Washington Post
New Antiwar Ad Launched
'Iraq Hasn't Wronged Us,' Bishop From Bush's Church Says



Asserting that a U.S. attack on Iraq "violates Godís law," United Methodist Bishop Melvin Talbert is spotlighted in a new television commercial sponsored by the National Council of Churches. This is a video image from the commercial.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0131-02.htm

As part of a larger council of churches, they tried to meet with him before the invasion.

46 U.S. Religious Leaders, Uneasy About the Proposed War on Iraq,
"With Utmost Urgency" Ask President Bush for Face-to-Face Meeting


Leaders of 11 Denominations and 4 Organizations;
Signers Include 20 United Methodist Bishops

January 30, 2003, NEW YORK CITY - Citing the "utmost urgency" of their request, 46 U.S. religious leaders who have been working "to slow the rush to war" with Iraq today petitioned President Bush for a face-to-face meeting.

War is not only a military matter, write the leaders - from 11 denominations and four organizations, including 20 United Methodist bishops. "It is a moral and ethical matter of the highest order, one that we have made a priority for many months as the possibility of war has loomed on our national horizon."

http://www.ncccusa.org/news/03news4.html
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aePrime Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
35. You're misinformed on this issue then
The United Methodist Church has been against this war from the beginning. It's even stated in the article posted and reiterated by the original poster.

Moreover, my mother and my brother are United Methodist ministers and I was raised in the church, so I'm pretty familiar with their doctrine. The United Methodist Church's doctrine opposes all war, not just this one -- they advocate pacifism. In fact, my mom states that being raised United Methodist should be my basis for conscientious objector status.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. "See? We confess our sins. Nothing to see here.'
That said: WE TOLD THEM SO!!

WE WERE MILLIONS IN THE STREETS BEING WILLFULLY IGNORED BY THEM TOO!! :mad:

Now: what are they gonna DO about it?? Ban smirko? :argh:
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
31. well, if the the Catholic Church can excommunicate, why doesn't
the UM ban *Co?
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. They only come out when it's "safe" to do so.
All the people I used to argue with about the invasion of Iraq are howling now about the "lies" they were told. Don't get me wrong--I think it's great that more people are speaking out. But it just burns me up that so many people are content to go along with the side that's winning. I hate that kind of cowardice. When I think of all the people who were ridiculed and worse for being anti-war; being called "paranoid" and worse for doubting the claims of WMD. I would just love to take out a big ad on the front page of the NYT that says, in three-inch letters, WE TOLD YOU SO.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is WONDERFUL news! The Pastor of our church was nearly
run out of town shortly after 9/11 for making a statement similar to this one calling for repentance -

...going to war over the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks did not solve the real problems behind them.

The real issues are that much of the world lives in poverty, desperation and depression, he said, while an affluent minority of the world often oppresses them. Americans need to take responsibility for their world, Stith said.


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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. cool.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Are you sure you didn't mean to type "Faux Methodist Bishops"?
Any "man of God" who fails to speak out loudly against war is faux IMHO.
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shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Let's now hear from Congressional Democrats ...
Paul Wellstone put up a good fight, but there's lots of room for apologies from Democrats.
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. Recommended. How will Bush spin this? n/t
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Perhaps pat Robertson will pick this one up for him...n/t
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Bush will find this declaration inconvenient, and
simply ignore it until it goes away.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. He'll dispatch IRS agents to threaten the Church...
...with revocation of its tax-exempt status, until they submit.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. The Methodist Church did issue a statement before the war against the war.
However, they apparently wish they'd done more? I hope we all learn from our mistakes.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. "He's not right with his church" - George W. Bush
I remember the chimpster saying that about John Kerry. Kerry was too honorable to slap the shit out of him, but Al Sharpton said it best: "There are two types of Christians: The Christian right and the right Christians".

Some of my best friends are Methodists (so the saying goes :P) and they voted, campaigned, and raised funds for John Kerry.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I like the Al Sharpton quote. Chumpy worships Satan, he's NO
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 09:59 PM by texpatriot2004
Methodist and he's NO Christian...I know because his fruits (ie deeds) are ROTTEN.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Maybe smirko swaped confession and is now a Moonie??
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 11:38 PM by Amonester


:puke: Hail to the Moon king :swastikahere:

The deeply weird coronation of Rev. Sun Myung Moon in a Senate office building -- crown, robes, the works -- is no longer one of Washington's best-kept secrets.
By John Gorenfeld
- - - - - - - - - - - -

June 21, 2004 | You probably imagine your congressman hard at work in the Capitol debating legislation, making laws -- you know, governing. But your newspaper probably didn't tell you that one night last March, members of Congress hosted a crowning ritual for an ex-convict multi-billionaire who dressed up in maroon robes and declared himself the Second Coming.

http://salon.com/news/feature/2004/06/21/moon/index_np.html

:silly:

Anything yet in the green rooms of all the CSMs Situation($)?? :crazy:
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. How weird is that? n.t
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. This U.M. Voted for Kerry
And was horrified to learn GWB was of my faith and sincerely shaken to learn of this. Wish my denomination would have spoken louder about this way back when - at least they're taking a stand now.

Gee. Which MSN will report this on the tube? (/sarcasm)

Good line, IronLionZion: "The Christian right and the right Christians."

:thumbsup:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yeah, I remember before the
bombing there was a statement from the Methodist Church leader that they opposed the war and then I didn't hear much more.

There were so many churches rah rah rahing to go to war that at least these Bishops are admitting their complicity!

Why were so many duped into silence by these cunning jackals?
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
29. Confess! Give them the comfy chair! Power tool Methodists.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
33. Good for them. And double good that it's on Faux.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. One can imagine some cognitive dissonance on the part of Faux staff. n/t
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CANDO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
36. Look out! Here comes an IRS investigation.
EOM
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
37. The Methodist church stands for nothing
but the status quo. It's a great church to belong to, if you believe nothing and are committed to nothing, but want to look religious. That's why it's so huge--it's so damn easy to be UM. Just ask George and Dick, great, solid United Methodists.

The bishops will speak out, the pastors will never mention it from the pulpit, and the laity will be oblivious. Welcome to the UMC.

I especially love how Methodists tout the example of Wesley, but never mention that Wesley was vegetarian. That would kill of all those hog roasts and turkey dinners with which the UMC supports itself.

Wesley must be spinning in his grave!! What a bunch of hypocrites!!
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. this is true of all mainline denominations
There is a huge gulf between the progressive theology of the hierarchy and what is actually said from the pulpit. They're afraid that offended congregants will put smaller checks in the offering plate.

If they had more faith in what their own gospels say, they might not fear division so much.

And where would we be politically if mainline Christians had been challenged to think progressively at any time in the past few decades?
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
38. Now that the churches have their Supreme Court they are just starting to
look at the moral cost it has taken them by supporting this administration.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
41. Bush need doesn't to belong to any organized church
He has his own personal hotline to God.:sarcasm:
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