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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:21 AM
Original message
Anti-Semitism on rise in Britain, MP says
LONDON - Anti-Semitism is on the rise in Britain, with the number of incidents at their highest level for a generation, the chairman of an influential parliamentary committee said in London on Wednesday.

"Anti-Semitism is back in fashion. It was once considered solely a problem of the far right, but this is no longer the case," said committee chairman and lawmaker John Mann.

"We have to recognize that anti-Semitism is a virus and it mutates to suit its surroundings. It is not simply a Jewish problem, just like racism is not simply a problem for the black community. This scourge affects the whole of society."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/646988.html
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. He is talking out of his arse, IMHO
There is no noticeable rise in anti-semitism.

There is a veritable tsunami of Islamophobia, however, which has coincidentally given rise to a huge increase in accusations of anti-semitism, since some of the leading Islamophobes are fanatical supporters of Israel and Zionism. They see an opportunity in harming two of their enemies in one go - stoking up Islamophobia against their close enemies and against the anti-Zionist left who they hope to tar as anti-semites.

Of course I'd appreciate any evidence on this subject. If anti-semitism really is rising I want to know so I can fight it as well as arguing endlessy against Islamophobia (a very thankless task in recent years).
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Um. There is plenty of documentation of rising antisemitism not just in
the UK but also *throughout* Europe, it's been in the media over and over, and a simple google on the subject will show you the evidence you need. This is nothing to slough off as that is exactly what the reaction was in Germany, Poland etc and the US back in the late 30's, early 40's. That doesn't mean there isn't fear of Muslims, it just means that increasing rhetoric and symbolic and actual violence against Jews is a reality once again. And attributing it simply to false accusations of 'fanatical supporters of Israel and Zionism' is denying a grave reality and implicitly blaming Jews.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Good job!
Isn't it amazing. Had this said "rise in racism" or "racism in anti-gay" attacks, the responses would have been outrage, instead of "I don't believe it! I need proof! Are the mixing up anti-Israel beliefs?" It is actually quite disgusting.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. I think you should think about the way you worded that...
You use the word 'violence' to describe bigotry against Jews, yet use a much milder word 'fear' when it comes to Muslims. Bigotry against Muslims is fear and not bigotry??

I hope you weren't meaning to say that the level of anti-Semitism in the UK today is exactly what it was in Germany in the late 30's and early 40's. If you were, I think you should go and read up on what happened in Germany during that period and admit to yrself that they are not the same reactions at all...

Violet...
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Calling it like it is. There is violence taking place against Jews,
that's well-documented. I used the word 'fear' with respect to Muslims because the post I was responding to specifically used the term 'Islamophobia' so I responded to that term, 'phobia' rather than intending any belittling which you inferred. And yes, this is how it started in pre-war Europe, bit by bit and I've read quite enough on it, no need for you to be insulting. You might consider reading the meaning of the post instead of nitpicking.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. There is also violence taking place against Muslims...
I'm not denying for a second that anti-Semitism is on the rise, but I would never describe bigotry against Jews as merely fear of Jews. For yr future information, Islamophobia is the official term used to describe bigotry against Muslims...

You specifically mentioned Germany in the late 1930's and early 1940's. Unless I'm missing something, that's not pre-war, as the war went from 1939 to 1945. btw, if you've read enough on it, I don't really understand why yr trying to say it's the same as in the UK today. There's huge differences, in that the UK govt isn't encouraging anti-Semitism and instigating pogroms, nor is it introducing laws to strip citizenship from Jewish citizens....

Violet...
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
26. Bigotry against Jews can lead to violence..
Any level of anti-Semitism is dangerous because when it started in Germany it did so gradually and insidiously. Hitler blamed the Jews for all of Germany's woes at that time.

It's not to that degree in the UK but if gone unchecked it could rise to the same proportions it was in Germany in the 30's and 40's.

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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. Bigotry in itself, alone, usually will lead to violence. And when aimed
against anyone it will usually lead to violence. This includes people who are Jewish, too, of course.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Absolutely,bigotry is like a raisin in the sun



Bigotry is a sore on humanity.

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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. Thank you! Great reply.
You took the words out of my mouth. Of course there is both Anti-Semitism and fear of Muslims.

Both are inherently evil and should be addressed and stopped.



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Charles19 Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. As a Muslim
I thank you for arguing against Islamophobia.
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umtalal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I am also a mulsim and I am thankful for you for defending against
Islamphobia.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Sue Blackwell and her racist AUT,
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 11:45 AM by Coastie for Truth
Lord Mayor Livingstone, Sir Mark Sykes OBE.

Come'on. You are surely joshing.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. That's not proof - that's listing some names
in a misleading manner. The AUT is not 'racist' and neither does it belong to Sue Blackwell - she's just a member of its council. Her attempt at a boycott was aimed at specific actions of certain universities in Israel. Livingstone (Mayor, not Lord Mayor) is very anti-Likud - he is not anti-semitic. An interesting interview with him on a British Jewish website. Sir Mark Sykes? You're bringing up diplomatic decisions from 90 years ago as evidence of increasing antisemitism in Britain? Come'on. You are surely joshing.

However, you could have bothered to actually find some figures:
http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/articles/1373_rise_in_anti_semitis.htm

Antisemitism in the UK is at street level, not in public life.
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. Maybe you haven't been paying attention.
There might be "Islamophobia" as you call it but we're not discussing the Muslims. There are problems with "fanatical" supporters of Islam too, namely the radical clerics who call for the destruction of Israel. I don't hear Israeli rabbis going around declaring the destruction of all Arabs.

Anybody who wants to see the Jewish population eliminated is anti-semitic. So what's the difference between being anti-Zionist and anti-semitic?

Not much.

Being a declared anti-Zionist is the same as being anti-semitic.

THE DEFINITION OF ZIONIST:

Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, advocated, from its inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions, left and right, religious and secular, joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained. The term "Zionism" was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/zionism.html

The evidence that anti-Semitism is on the rise is compelling and it's not just in the UK. It seems to be on the rise in other parts of Europe.
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
36. Well said! Thank you! n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thank you for proving the point.
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 10:32 AM by Jim Sagle
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. And it only took a few posts for that faux-"progressive" to be tombstoned.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. Is anti-semitism being defined as any remark against an out-of -control
government of Israel or is it a true remark or action against someone who is Jewish? Big difference and quite often no distinction is made.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. It is the conscious or unconscious, deliberate or accidental conflation
of Likud, NeoCon, PNAC, Sharon, Zionism, Israeli, Jew.

It is like conflating Southern Methodist with Harriet Miers, Karen Hughes, Laura Bush, George Bush, Karl Rove, etc.

It is like cheering against SMU only because Harriet, Laura, and Karen went there.

It is like giving money to the Red Cross or Habitat for Humanity instead of the Salvation Army because the Salvation Army is historically Methodist (like Harriet, Laura, Karen, Bushie, Rove, ...)

Who should I cheer for today? It's SMU at Houston. Don't much like either of them. I'll probably go with Houston as the lesser of two evils.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. From the article:
"Community Safety Trust, a group representing Britain's Jewish community, says there were 532 anti-Semitic incidents - defined as malicious acts toward the Jewish community - last year."
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. That is not a very precise definition
A malicious act could be anything from an ethnic slur to a synagogue set on fire. And we don't know if Community Safety Trust is reporting some kind of government figures or their own self-defined figures.
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Physical assaults, fire-bombings, etc. documented by human rights group
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 07:27 PM by JudyM
'This disturbing pattern, documented in a report released by Human Rights First, has included physical assaults on individuals – and fire-bombings, gunfire, window smashing, and vandalism of Jewish homes, schools, synagogues and other community institutions.'

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/discrimination/antisemitism/antisemitism.htm

See also BBC News: Anti-Semitism on rise in Europe
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3586543.stm
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. The BBC gave only these specifics for Britain.
"In the UK there were there were violent attacks on two synagogues in 2002 and in 2003 there were two cases of suspected arson and several attacks on Jewish cemeteries."

Unfortunately the link to the report on the Human Rights First page is 404, although they look like a credible source - for instance, they are not playing down the U.S. tortures in Iraq.

For what its worth, I don't have any use for anti-semitism, but I can be a stickler for statistical detail.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. It never went out of fashion
The truth is that the bigots are just feeling more secure and getting mouthier in public about hating Jews.

And now, it's acceptable to hate Arabs, all of them, since bigots have a hard time distinguishing between followers of Islam, Christians, all those people are the same, you know.

Haters - they're eternal.
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
29. Unfortunately so
I agree with you 100%.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's ironic that some on the left are embracing anti-Semitism, just as
the Union for Reform Judaism becomes one of the largest religious voices opposing Bush's war. Ironic, and sad. :-(

Tucker
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. Deleted message
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ErisFiveFingers Donating Member (354 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. Still here. :-) n/t
I too am curious about the breakdown of attacks. Are firebombings on the rise, or have they been reduced? Are defacements of property on the rise, or reduced?

While the aggregate number of reported attacks may be increased, I'd see 150 hate mail letters as something entirely different than 150 lynchings.... according to:
http://www.ushmm.org/newsfeed/anti/viewstory.php?storyid=2484

The numbers include "physical attacks, name calling, hate mail and the desecration of property, such as the vandalism of synagogues with swastikas"... which means that Riaz Burahee may be responsible for 90 of those acts alone (threatening phone calls made over three days by a mentally unstable man).
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. I have been looking.
I have scoured the web looking for the report. I was very curious if it is as detailed as the FBI's crime stats. Hate crimes against Jews in the US is higher than any other religious group, but did take a, I think 2% overall, dip this year. But, the FBI stats does break down if it is verbal, physical, et al.

I will keep looking for the British version. If I find it, I will post the link.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Here's an article from March this year
Statistics show that there were an average of 53 racist crimes a day recorded by police in London last year. Of these, 32% were against people of African and Caribbean origin, 30% were against Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, and 22% were against white Europeans.

Attacks on southern and eastern Europeans accounted for 7% and Arabs and Egyptians were targeted in 3%. Two per cent were against Chinese and Japanese. There were 216 religiously aggravated anti-semitic crimes, equivalent to 2% of racially aggravated crimes. But statisticians at Scotland Yard and the Greater London Authority have also produced calculations showing how various races suffer in relation to each other.

Compared with a white European, an African or Caribbean person was 11 times more likely to be the victim of a racial crime, an Arab or Egyptian 12 times, an Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi 13 times and a southern or eastern European eight times. A Chinese or Japanese person was five times more at risk and analysts claim a Jewish person was three times as likely to be subject to a racially or religiously aggravated crime.
...
According to the British Crime Survey, which monitors incidents throughout the UK, there were 206,000 racially motivated incidents in the UK - equivalent to 560 a day. Of the racist crimes recorded, in London 926 were cases of common assault and 782 were woundings. There were also 1,291 cases of criminal damage.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1431833,00.html
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PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
30. Islamiphobia, anti-semitism...
In both cases the anger is directed toward those who are visibly different.

Perhaps this is not simply "Anti-Semites" or "Islamiphobia". No those distinctions are too specific. I think this hate is due to a growing intolerance for "the others", people who are somehow deferent and don't fit in with the way many feel they should. Not so much a fear, but a growing resentment... Why can't those people be French, German, American, or whatever, just like the rest of us.

Old fashioned bigotry. The kind that only sees two kinds of people. "Us" and "Them".
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. Hi Psychodad!
Haven't seen your posts in a while. I agree with you: these things are of a piece. I fear the xenophobia is rising. :-(

Tucker
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ThePopulist Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
33. n/t
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 07:21 PM by ThePopulist
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-05 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
37. .
Edited on Sat Nov-26-05 04:23 PM by Mairead
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