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UP IN THE AIR: Where is the Iraq war headed next? by Seymour Hersh

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 08:50 AM
Original message
UP IN THE AIR: Where is the Iraq war headed next? by Seymour Hersh




http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/051205fa_fact

UP IN THE AIR
Where is the Iraq war headed next?
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Issue of 2005-12-05
Posted 2005-11-28

In recent weeks, there has been widespread speculation that President George W. Bush, confronted by diminishing approval ratings and dissent within his own party, will begin pulling American troops out of Iraq next year. The Administration’s best-case scenario is that the parliamentary election scheduled for December 15th will produce a coalition government that will join the Administration in calling for a withdrawal to begin in the spring. By then, the White House hopes, the new government will be capable of handling the insurgency. In a speech on November 19th, Bush repeated the latest Administration catchphrase: “As Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.” He added, “When our commanders on the ground tell me that Iraqi forces can defend their freedom, our troops will come home with the honor they have earned.” One sign of the political pressure on the Administration to prepare for a withdrawal came last week, when Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told Fox News that the current level of American troops would not have to be maintained “for very much longer,” because the Iraqis were getting better at fighting the insurgency.

***

He {Patrick Clawson, the deputy director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy} continued, “We want to draw down our forces, but the President is prepared to tough this one out. There is a very deep feeling on his part that the issue of Iraq was settled by the American people at the polling places in 2004.” The war against the insurgency “may end up being a nasty and murderous civil war in Iraq, but we and our allies would still win,” he said. “As long as the Kurds and the Shiites stay on our side, we’re set to go. There’s no sense that the world is caving in. We’re in the middle of a seven-year slog in Iraq, and eighty per cent of the Iraqis are receptive to our message.”

***

Bush’s closest advisers have long been aware of the religious nature of his policy commitments. In recent interviews, one former senior official, who served in Bush’s first term, spoke extensively about the connection between the President’s religious faith and his view of the war in Iraq. After the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the former official said, he was told that Bush felt that “God put me here” to deal with the war on terror. The President’s belief was fortified by the Republican sweep in the 2002 congressional elections; Bush saw the victory as a purposeful message from God that “he’s the man,” the former official said. Publicly, Bush depicted his reëlection as a referendum on the war; privately, he spoke of it as another manifestation of divine purpose.

***

“The President is more determined than ever to stay the course,” the former defense official said. “He doesn’t feel any pain. Bush is a believer in the adage ‘People may suffer and die, but the Church advances.’ ” He said that the President had become more detached, leaving more issues to Karl Rove and Vice-President Cheney. “They keep him in the gray world of religious idealism, where he wants to be anyway,” the former defense official said. Bush’s public appearances, for example, are generally scheduled in front of friendly audiences, most often at military bases. Four decades ago, President Lyndon Johnson, who was also confronted with an increasingly unpopular war, was limited to similar public forums. “Johnson knew he was a prisoner in the White House,” the former official said, “but Bush has no idea.”

<more>



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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. Now hear this: Send this article to your Sens/Reps/MSM ASAP.
They now have adequate time to peruse these details before they get back to DC.

What is contained in this Hersh piece MUST be brought before the American people for dialog. Most of America is clueless about all of this, and it will be to our peril if we aren't successful in getting this into the mainstream.

As you were.
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. Later in the article
there are lots of blood-chilling revelations. American troops are sluaghering Sunnis on behalf of Shia, for example, co-opted into one side of a sectarian struggle (and just wait for the ethnic cleansing of Sunni Iraq to begin, if it hasn't already). There's a heavy reliance on air power (and air power always means high civilian casualties) and a prospect of putting that airpower at the service of the (Kurd and Shia led) Iraqi army. And then there are the raids into Syria...
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Hersch is stating the obvious here.
Not that it doesn't need to be stated over and over again until the truth manages to pierce through the cloud of MSM bullshit. We have become the proxy army for the shiite faction in the Iraqi civil war.

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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Important bits:
A key element of the drawdown plans, not mentioned in the President’s public statements, is that the departing American troops will be replaced by American airpower.

.....

“We’re not planning to diminish the war,” Patrick Clawson, the deputy director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, told me. Clawson’s views often mirror the thinking of the men and women around Vice-President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. “We just want to change the mix of the forces doing the fighting.....

.....

....the President is prepared to tough this one out. There is a very deep feeling on his part that the issue of Iraq was settled by the American people at the polling places in 2004.” The war against the insurgency “may end up being a nasty and murderous civil war in Iraq, but we and our allies would still win,” he said. “As long as the Kurds and the Shiites stay on our side, we’re set to go.

.....

After the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the former official said, he was told that Bush felt that “God put me here” to deal with the war on terror. The President’s belief was fortified by the Republican sweep in the 2002 congressional elections; Bush saw the victory as a purposeful message from God that “he’s the man,” the former official said. Publicly, Bush depicted his reëlection as a referendum on the war; privately, he spoke of it as another manifestation of divine purpose.

The former senior official said that after the election he made a lengthy inspection visit to Iraq and reported his findings to Bush in the White House: “I said to the President, ‘We’re not winning the war.’ And he asked, ‘Are we losing?’ I said, ‘Not yet.’ ” The President, he said, “appeared displeased” with that answer.

“I tried to tell him,” the former senior official said. “And he couldn’t hear it.”

.....



(more to follow)

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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. More important bits:
Many of the military’s most senior generals are deeply frustrated, but they say nothing in public, because they don’t want to jeopardize their careers. The Administration has “so terrified the generals that they know they won’t go public,” a former defense official said.

....

The President and his key aides were enraged when, on November 17th, Murtha gave a speech in the House calling for a withdrawal of troops within six months. The speech was filled with devastating information. For example, Murtha reported that the number of attacks in Iraq has increased from a hundred and fifty a week to more than seven hundred a week in the past year. He said that an estimated fifty thousand American soldiers will suffer “from what I call battle fatigue” in the war, and he said that the Americans were seen as “the common enemy” in Iraq. He also took issue with one of the White House’s claims—that foreign fighters were playing the major role in the insurgency. Murtha said that American soldiers “haven’t captured any in this latest activity”—the continuing battle in western Anbar province, near the border with Syria. “So this idea that they’re coming in from outside, we still think there’s only seven per cent.”

Murtha’s call for a speedy American pullout only seemed to strengthen the White House’s resolve. Administration officials “are beyond angry at him, because he is a serious threat to their policy—both on substance and politically,” the former defense official said.

.....

Within the military, the prospect of using airpower as a substitute for American troops on the ground has caused great unease. For one thing, Air Force commanders, in particular, have deep-seated objections to the possibility that Iraqis eventually will be responsible for target selection. “Will the Iraqis call in air strikes in order to snuff rivals, or other warlords, or to snuff members of your own sect and blame someone else?” another senior military planner now on assignment in the Pentagon asked. “Will some Iraqis be targeting on behalf of Al Qaeda, or the insurgency, or the Iranians?”


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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. Even more important bits:
The American air war inside Iraq today is perhaps the most significant—and underreported—aspect of the fight against the insurgency.

....

In recent months, the tempo of American bombing seems to have increased. Most of the targets appear to be in the hostile, predominantly Sunni provinces that surround Baghdad and along the Syrian border. As yet, neither Congress nor the public has engaged in a significant discussion or debate about the air war.

....

The second senior military planner told me that there are essentially two types of targeting now being used in Iraq: a deliberate site-selection process that works out of air-operations centers in the region, and “adaptive targeting”—supportive bombing by prepositioned or loitering warplanes that are suddenly alerted to firefights or targets of opportunity by military units on the ground. “The bulk of what we do today is adaptive,” the officer said, “and it’s divorced from any operational air planning.

....

This military planner added that even today, with Americans doing the targeting, “there is no sense of an air campaign, or a strategic vision. We are just whacking targets—it’s a reversion to the Stone Age.

....


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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. This confirms previous DU threads about US incursions into Syria
Edited on Mon Nov-28-05 07:10 PM by IndianaGreen
Meanwhile, as the debate over troop reductions continues, the covert war in Iraq has expanded in recent months to Syria. A composite American Special Forces team, known as an S.M.U., for “special-mission unit,” has been ordered, under stringent cover, to target suspected supporters of the Iraqi insurgency across the border. (The Pentagon had no comment.) “It’s a powder keg,” the Pentagon consultant said of the tactic. “But, if we hit an insurgent network in Iraq without hitting the guys in Syria who are part of it, the guys in Syria would get away. When you’re fighting an insurgency, you have to strike everywhere—and at once.”

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/051205fa_fact



Our military brass are acting like Hitler's Wehrmacht, never questioning the Commander-in-Chief's orders no matter how outrageous.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. Additional important bits:
This consultant said that there were plans to integrate between two hundred and three hundred Special Forces members into Iraqi units, which was seen as a compromise aimed at meeting the Air Force’s demand to vet Iraqis who were involved in targeting. But in practice, the consultant added, it meant that “the Special Ops people will soon allow Iraqis to begin calling in the targets.”

Robert Pape, a political-science professor at the University of Chicago, who has written widely on American airpower, and who taught for three years at the Air Force’s School of Advanced Airpower Studies, in Alabama, predicted that the air war “will get very ugly” if targeting is turned over to the Iraqis. This would be especially true, he said, if the Iraqis continued to operate as the U.S. Army and Marines have done—plowing through Sunni strongholds on search-and-destroy missions.

....

....Andrew Brookes, the former director of airpower studies at the Royal Air Force’s advanced staff college, who is now at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, in London. “Can you put a lid on the insurgency with bombing?” Brookes said. “No. You can concentrate in one area, but the guys will spring up in another town.” The inevitable reliance on Iraqi ground troops’ targeting would also create conflicts. “I don’t see your guys dancing to the tune of someone else,” Brookes said. He added that he and many other experts “don’t believe that airpower is a solution to the problems inside Iraq at all. Replacing boots on the ground with airpower didn’t work in Vietnam, did it?”

....

The Air Force’s worries have been subordinated, so far, to the political needs of the White House. The Administration’s immediate political goal after the December elections is to show that the day-to-day conduct of the war can be turned over to the newly trained and equipped Iraqi military. It has already planned heavily scripted change-of-command ceremonies, complete with the lowering of American flags at bases and the raising of Iraqi ones.

....

Meanwhile, as the debate over troop reductions continues, the covert war in Iraq has expanded in recent months to Syria. A composite American Special Forces team, known as an S.M.U., for “special-mission unit,” has been ordered, under stringent cover, to target suspected supporters of the Iraqi insurgency across the border. (The Pentagon had no comment.) “It’s a powder keg,” the Pentagon consultant said of the tactic.

....
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. Syria, the new Cambodia and Laos. (eom)
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. That is the truly awful part.
The Cabal has not given up on their plans for neocon transformation of the middle east into their dystopian free market experiment in what they dubiously label 'freedom and democracy'. Freeing up ground troops in Iraq means freeing them up in Iraq for missions elsewhere in the middle east (i.e. syria and iran) using those permanent military bases they have been building ever since the occupation began. This nightmare is not over. They think that they have just hit a rough patch, a bump in the road. They think that they just have a PR problem that they need to straighten out.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. "We’re in the middle of a seven-year slog in Iraq"
What did Bush* mean by this statement? Is it that the next Presidential election would be seven years after we first went in to Iraq? Was this some sort of Freudian slip???
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. That statement is by Patrick Clawson
He's saying the Iraq war will take seven years. The overall ME transformation has been described as a 50 Years War by the PNAC architects of it, so fasten your seatbelt.
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
11. Bush is insane and we will be lucky to escape with our skins.
That's where we are. And everyone knows it except Bush.

The only way to change the Iraq policy is to get rid of Bush.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
13. Another thing not being discussed is our long-term exploitation plan
The clincher for this war for its advocates was the ability to establish military bases post-war and make Iraq into a staging area for policing the Persian Gulf, greatly enhancing our control of the flow of oil to the U.S. and the rest of the world. This aspect of the plan is permanently compromised if we are "forced" into physically withdrawing because we have been defined as the common enemy. Why virtually no one is talking about this aspect of the war right now is is yet another tribute to our brain-dead media.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. You mean like this article
Click on the link below.
A Must Read
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Exactly...We're not going anywhere
Bush will let his withdrawal slip show a little for the 2006 mid-terms, but the long-term plan is permanent installations. We're staying, as long as this crew is in charge.

Great article...Thanks a lot.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. It is hard to comprehend why no one is noticing this fact,
and you're only one of a few that has read it.
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wookie294 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. America deserves Bush
If Congress won't impeach him, then Bush is correct: the American people made a choice on election day 2002 and 2004 and they voted FOR the "divine" slaughter in Iraq. The problem with America is Americans, not Bush and Cheney.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'm afraid you are spot-on with your assessment
Woeful ignorance has been replaced with willful ignorance.

Just this past weekend my wife and I were chuckling at the ads for large, HD and plasma screen TVs: 2 and 3 thousand dollars for 35- to 50-inch screens. Huge home entertainment systems, sophisticated computer equipment, home copiers and fax machines, and yet, we are the most ignorant people on earth.

We don't want to know what BushCo is doing. We are constantly fed a line of pap designed to keep us ignorant. And propanda...propanda to keep us complacent and in agreement with the power elite.

Imagine any other time before this Administration when: 1) the US President advocated the use of torture; 2) the US maintained secret prisons; 3) the US President exposes an American intelligence operation; 4a) something like 9/11 was blamed on "an intelligence failure," 4b) something like the Iraq invasion was blamed on "an intelligence failure;" etc. etc. etc. The people would have risen up and demanded an end to that Administration. Not any more.

I don't know if we're in a kind of national conscious paralysis, but it doesn't look hopeful for the future.

You're right: The problem with America is Americans.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Willful Ignorance
Edited on Mon Nov-28-05 04:17 PM by davekriss
Reminds me of the end of a very prescient movie, Three Days of the Condor. Robert Redford plays the smart, innocent CIA reader (Higgins) who stumbles upon an internal conspiracy within the CIA to destablize the Mideast. Robert Culp plays the establishmentarian CIA (Higgins). In this final scene of the movie Higgins seeks to bring Turner in, most probably to kill him, so that things can proceed as planned. Turner (like a movie Siebel Edmonds) plays his only card as they stand in front of the NY Times building. The dialogue proceeds as follows:
    Higgins: Do we have plans to invade the Middle East?

    Turner: Are you crazy?

    Higgins: Am l? ...Look, Turner -- Do we have plans?

    Turner: No. Absolutely not. We have games. That's all. We play games-- What if? How many men? What would it take? Is there a cheaper way to destabilize a regime? That's what we're paid to do.

    Higgins: So Atwood just took the games too seriously. He was really going to do it, wasn't he? A renegade operation.

    Turner: Atwood knew the Company would never authorize it, not with the heat on the company.

    Higgins: What if there hadn't been any heat? Suppose I hadn't stumbled
    on their plan?

    Turner: Different ballgame. Fact is, there was nothing wrong with the plan. The plan was all right. The plan would've worked.

    Higgins: Boy, what is it with you people? You think not getting caught in a lie is the same thing as telling the truth?

    Turner: No. It's simple economics. Today it's oil, right? In 5 or 10 years -- food, plutonium, and maybe even sooner. What do you think the people are going to want us to do then?

    Higgins: Ask them.

    Turner: Not now. Then. Ask them when they're running out. Ask them when there's no heat and they're cold. Ask them when their engines stop. Ask them when people who have never known hunger start going hungry. Want to know something? They won't want us to ask them. They'll want us to get it for them.

    Turner: Boy, have you found a home. There were seven people
    killed, Higgins.

    Higgins: - The company didn't order it. Atwood did.

    Turner: Atwood did. And who the hell is Atwood? He's you. He's all you guys. Seven people killed, and you play fucking games!

    Higgins: Right. And the other side does, too. That's why we can't let you stay outside.

    Turner: Well, go on home, Higgins. Go on. They've got it.

    Higgins: - What?

    Turner: - You know where we are. Just look around. They've got it. That's where they ship from. (looks around at the NY Times building) They've got all of it.

    Higgins: What? What did you do?

    Turner: I told them a story. You play games, I told them a story.

    Higgins: Oh, you -- You poor, dumb son of a bitch. You've done more damage than you know.

    Turner: I hope so.

    Higgins: You're about to be a very lonely man. It didn't have to end this way.

    Turner: Of course it did.

    Higgins: Hey, Turner. How do you know they'll print it? ... You can take a walk, but how far if they don't print it?

    Turner: They'll print it.

    Higgins: How do you know?

    (camera zooms out and both Higgins and Turner are lost in busy NYC sidewalk crowds ... we hear Christmas carols from speakers at retail outlets along the street ...)
    Remember Christ, our Savior
    Was born on Christmas day
    To save us all
    from satan's power
    When we're gone astray
Higgins speaks to the "willful ignorance" of the general population in that, when resources dwindle, they do not want to hear how its government solves their problems. As Higgins says, "Now now. Then. Ask them when they're running out. ... Want to know something? They won't want us to ask them. They'll want us to get it for them."

The "they" who will want the "Company" to just "get it for them": If George Bush in 2002 told them that we will invade Iraq in order to build impregnable military garrisons from which we could radiate future imperial power -- and thereby guarantee future flows of oil -- and if Bush said we're invading Iraq to crush the alternate example set by Hussein's pricing of oil in Euros, thereby securing the continued hegemony of the dollar (which allows us to overconsume and overborrow), this "they" would approve. That Bush ineptly took a different propoganda course causes some discongruent pain now, and puts the entire Bush agenda at risk (proving the extreme incompetence of this administration).

I think there is a great middle majority of the US population that does not care how the USG solves their problems for them, as long as they stay employed, can buy X-Boxes for their children and plasma TV's for themselves, own two or three cars and take vacations, build a McMansion here and there, and put a little away for retirement. This gutless class of hypocrits are all around us.

It's why so many could tolerate the U.S. sponsored atrocities in Central America in the eighties and early nineties. Iran-Contra. The presence of the SOA on American soil. It's why they sit back comfortably when Bush stole the 2000 election. It's why they tolerate the lies that "justified" Iraq -- they want their USG to just "get it for them", no questions asked. And they tell themselves stories about the good intentions of our leadership when on occassion they can't sleep at night.

Meanwhile an even more selfish and rapacious upper class takes advantage of the "willful ignorance" of a fat and sedate middle when furthering their own agenda.

It's the Wiemar middle after the Riechstag fire, just before Kristallnact, just before the Holocaust, just before the second world war erupted...all over again.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Nonsense
"America deserves Bush" about as much as Iraqi general citzenry deserved Saddam Hussein.

When it takes a 5-4 bloodless coup in December 12 2000 to get your man in; when 60% of all votes are counted on unauditable and hackable voting machines made by arch-right-wing run firms; when a Wellstone gets Carnahaned and a Carnahan gets Wellstoned; when 90% of the "random" voting anamolies go for George Bush; when the Chief Executive of Diebold declares that he was going to deliver the state of Ohio to the Republicans; when pre-election day polling and exit polling are nullified by a late turn in "actual" voting; when we learn that 90,000 mostly Democrat "felons" were dropped from Florida voter registration roles in 2000, or when we learn that it took 8+ hours to vote in some Democrat-heavy districts of urban Ohio yet 10 minutes in most Republican-heavy suburbs in 2004; when we ponder that a Republican candidate for governer was trailing by 9 points on election-eve 2002 in Diebold Georgia yet managed to pull the election out and become the first Republican Governer in Georgia in 130 years; when we ponder the meaning of 18,181 x 3 -- no, the American people did NOT get to choose, the choice was made for us, we had a bloodless coup, we did not choose the evil perpertrated by these war criminals and thugs.

And today many are bewildered, dumbfounded, frustrated, and afraid, only now -- after Katrina and $3.00+ gasoline -- is a collective consciousness forming, a populist wave that will result in an ousting of all things Bush. These things take time.

The curtains have finally been drawn back, there are dangers ahead:
    The illusion of freedom in America will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre.
    -- Frank Zappa, 1977
Was Negroponte appointed Intelligence Czar over the U.S. so that he can do those wonderful things he did for Honduras and Nicaragua in the eighties and Iraq over the last two years? Will we have an American version of "the Disappeared"?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Good answer!
:applause:
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. 'Johnson knew he was a prisoner in the White House, but Bush has no idea'
There it is.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. The Guardian:US may use planes as substitute for troops in Iraq
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1652244,00.html

The Bush administration is considering a plan to put America's awesome airpower at the disposal of Iraqi commanders, as a way of reducing the number of US troops on the ground. The plan is causing consternation among commanders in US air force, who say it could lead to increased civilian casualties and lead to airstrikes being used as means of settling old scores.

According to an article in the New Yorker magazine by Seymour Hersh, the possibility of using airpower as a substitute for American troops on the ground has caused unease in the military, with air force commanders objecting to the possibility that Iraqis will eventually be responsible for target selection.

"Will the Iraqis call in air strikes in order to snuff rivals, or other warlords, or to snuff members of your own sect and blame it on someone else?" a senior military planner told the magazine. "Will some Iraqis be targeting on behalf of al-Qaida, or the insurgency, or the Iranians?"

With the White House under increasing pressure over its handling of the war in Iraq, senior administration figures are for the first time signalling the possibility of significant troop reductions. In a departure from previous statements the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, said last week that the training of Iraqi soldiers had advanced so far that the current number of US troops in the country probably would not be needed much longer.

... just like Vietnam. :cry:

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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. But we WOULD NEVER turn control of our forces over to other
countries or the UN :eyes: :sarcasm:
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Just another excuse for more indiscriminate bombings
of civilian populations. Has Rummie would say, it's so much less messy that way.

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montanacowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. OMG
this is truly the theater of the absurd - what next?

these clowns in the WH need to be taken away by the men in the little white coats -
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imouttahere Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. There's still the matter of 14 permanent bases....
these people are beyond insane.
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