Top U.S. military officer contradicts his civilian boss (Pace & Rumsfeld)

which is to say: Stopping torture.

He's just not the person I had thought he was until now. Horrible.

I don't think Pace is a bad guy overall, I think he is just a soldier, through and through.

He uses what he was trained to use (as far as the WP goes), and fights for the real American values (as far as abuse goes).

Not a bad guy, just not a saint.

I really wish we'd stop this tragedy that is the illegal invasion of Iraq. :-(

Power may sometimes hold the whip hand, but Truth always wins in the long run. The question is always now long is the run.

Gen. Pace is now on my radar screen. What's his history of speaking out? Has he contradicted his CIVILIAN boss before?

I think I'll do a little looking on the Internet. If these 2 men are at odds with each other, then that can be an curious development.

RumsFailed, as we all know, has eliminated anyone who has opposed him. The revolving door has been turning quite a bit these past few years. The only military people who survived were Yes-men. So the fact that a Rebel is still there, has interesting implications.

or some other, similar TOTALLY IMPORTANT infraction of military protocal. :sarcasm:

The neocons will toast him.

:kick:

send rumsfeld and cheney to guantanamo and let al qaida interrogate them for a few years about pre-war intelligence and what they really knew about wmd in saddam's iraq, the real reasons for the invasion, and their plan for restoring credibility in the US among the family of nations.

They noted that his name is Italian, and is pronounced pa-chey in its original language.

They did NOT note the great irony there: his name means peace...

and the BushCo "policies." Some news reports have it that Murtha only stood up b/c he had a lot of support among the military to do so.

ones left.

I've always thought he seemed so very, very much finer than the scum he was associating with. He has been in press conferences with Rumsfeld for ages, without contradicting him directly. I'm so glad he spoke up regardless of the consequences.

He used to do joint briefings with that loon, Victoria Clarke, who dropped totally out of sight. Apparently she failed to please _BushCo. herself. Hard to believe, as she was such a determined promoter of _Bush's war on Iraq.






I don't think Pace's career is going to get any brighter until _Bush can be pried out of the White House.

...he can attain in the military...Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

But, IMHO, that is a very telling moment. Rumsfeld now knows that he's no longer driving the DoD bus.

"Your performance depends on your people. Select the best, train them and back them. When errors occur, give sharper guidance. If errors persist or if the fit feels wrong, help them move on. The country cannot afford amateur hour in the White House."
Donald Rumsfeld

Unfortunately, we've already paid for about 306,600 amateur hours in the last 5 years.

I can't tell you if the use of force in Iraq today will last five days, five weeks or five months, but it won't last any longer than that.
Donald Rumsfeld

I don't do quagmires.
Donald Rumsfeld
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/d/donald_rumsfeld.html

than I realized. I knew Richard Myers left, and somehow I completely missed hearing who replaced him. Yikes.

I hope you're right on Rumsfeld ability to read the signs. It's true they won't be able to kick this guy to the curb as they have done with other high-ranking officers.

...is the responsibility of the Occupying Power!
As long as there are US Tanks on the streets of Baghdad, what happens in Baghdad is OUR responsibility.

Dumbya will fire him, watch and see. Our fascist regieme reacts to criticism with yet another episode of the night of the long knives. This case will be no different.

Pace reflects credit on himself for his courage in service to our country. In the military, we were told that we were to obey all lawful orders from superiors. Unlawful orders were to be resisted. I am certain that Pace has this distinction on his mind.

whipped pup. This last go around was even worse, Rummy would cut him off and on one occasion when a reporter asked Pace specifically a question old Rummy immediately cut in and gave his view first. It appeared the reporters figured out if they wanted any semblance of a real answer they had to ask Pace. Rummy picked up on that real quick and still wouldn't let Pace start the answering. In other words Pace was suppose to follow Rummy's lead.

or retired to Buenos Aires.

Why is Rumsfeld lingering?

I want to send him a message of support.

stop that torture too?

about Seymour Hersh, and what the generals are telling him. Our government is, it seems, in a crisis of leadership.

if he really, really wanted to.

its part of Duty & Honor to protect, its spelled out in the Geneva Convention.

Torture is forbidden by the Geneva Conventions, both in cases of internal conflicts (Convention I, Art. 3, Sec. 1A), wounded combatants (Convention I, Art. 12), civilians in occupied territories (Convention IV, Art. 32), civilians in international conflicts (Protocol I, Art. 75, Sec. 2Ai) and civilians in internal conflicts (Protocol II, Art. 4, Sec. 2A).


Civilians have special protections under Convention IV, Protocol I, and Protocol II.

They must be treated humanely, without discrimination based on race, color, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or other similar criteria.

Violence to life and person including murder, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture are prohibited.

The taking of hostages is prohibited.

Outrages upon personal dignity, including humiliating and degrading treatment are prohibited.

Sentences and executions without a judgment from a regularly constituted court and without benefit of the standard judicial guarantees are prohibited. (Convention IV, Art. 3)

See civilian population, women, murder, rape, torture, discrimination, civilian property, places of worship, cultural objects, grave breaches, and indiscriminate bombing to start with.