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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:38 PM
Original message
Rumsfeld warns of Islamic superstate if U.S. leaves Iraq too soon
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

WASHINGTON - If U.S. forces leave too soon, Iraq will become a haven for terrorists and the base of a spreading Islamic superstate that would threaten the rest of the world, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld said Monday.

Speaking at Johns Hopkins University's Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies, Rumsfeld warned that al-Qaida leaders such as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Osama bin Laden would seize power in the wake of an American withdrawal and turn Iraq into the kind of terrorist safe haven that Afghanistan was before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Moreover, Rumsfeld said: "Iraq would serve as the base of a new Islamic caliphate to extend throughout the Middle East, and which would threaten legitimate governments in Europe, Africa and Asia. This is their plan. They have said so. We make a terrible mistake if we fail to listen and learn."

"The message that retreat would send to the free people of Iraq and to moderate Muslim reformers throughout the region and the world would be that they cannot count on America," Rumsfeld said. "The message it would send to our enemies would be that America will not defend itself against terrorists in Iraq, and it will not defend itself against terrorists anywhere."

FortWayne.com
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. What bullshit
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Formerly known as the "Domino theory", a couple decades back. nt
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
36. I was part of that once
ie: repelling the Domino theory.

Sure worked great for us back then </sarcasm>
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. You and a lot of others, Saigon. How soon we forget, eh? nt
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
69. Trade-secrete (TS-SI, code-word) ... pay close attention to this.
Saigon68 and I spent the entire war with a set of dominoes, sitting in a LERP position in the western A Shau Valley, playing Trains. We never moved from our position.
We smoked and joked, and played the dominoes. We talked about our girls and Jody. And played dominoes. Hueys brought us chow and, occasionally, warm beer. Oh, and ammo too.
Saigon68 and I were hunkered down. We were in the dirt, I tell you! But it was all for our game of dominoes. Every now and then a NVA 50-cal would burp. Saigon68 would always laugh and say, "Dominoes, Mac. Pay attention buddy!"
It was 365 days of dominoes with Saigon68. Now Saigon68 and I (and our band-of-brothers) know exactly what dominoes is all about.

Mac
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #69
75. Thanks Mac
The ZPU's cutting loose, at anything flying were also a real thrill early in the morning. Especially if you just happened to be in the air close to an LZ or a TIC
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
80. Same verse of the Cheney song....
An islamic terrorist state from spain to indonesia. Spandonesia maybe. this is the domino theory dressed up for the new millenium.
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. So does that mean he thinks we would be safer with a contained Saddam?
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Of course -- Saddam was our bulwark against Shi'a fundamentalism
Rumsfeld & his neo-con ideologues have advanced that agenda greatly.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It means it was really stupid to illegally invade Iraq, and now
we have to keep being stupid or it will get even worse.

Another form would be that we have a hammerlock on an enraged lion and we better not let go.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Well said
Having created the problem he complains of, he now wants to supersize it.

The fear mongering never stops.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Psst, Mr. Rumsfeld?
"We make a terrible mistake if we fail to listen and learn."

Yuppers, Rummy. Too bad you didn't LISTEN and LEARN when you idiots were warned that THIS WHOLE INVASION OF IRAQ was a dumb idea that would end in tears.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is an old man spouting an old man's lies
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dcfirefighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. An "Islamic superstate" that "threatened legitimate governments"
would be dealt with accordingly.
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Che_Nuevara Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
29. "legitimate" meaning ... "Christian" (n/t)
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
83. No, in this case "legitmate" means "Saudi"
:puke:
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. "haven for terrorists and the base of a spreading Islamic superstate"
WHICH IT WAS NOT BEFORE!

Iraq was NOT a haven for terrorists or the base of an Islamic superstate BEFORE BUSH INVADED! The invasion created those conditions!

Jesus, what a fuckup!
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Rumsfield is correct there will someday be an Islamic superstate.
Edited on Mon Dec-05-05 08:58 PM by gordianot
Only problem is there is no way to stop it short of a Nuclear holocaust. Rumsfield is working hard every day to create a counter balance to the American superstate and he will assure it will be an enemy to the United States.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. he didn't think of that before going in ????????????
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
44. no, the NeoCon BushCo didn't think of ANYTHING having to do with the after
math of shock and awe and "Mission Accomplished."
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
81. "We'll be greeted with flowers"... "Cakewalk"... "Six months, tops."
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 05:56 PM by Zenlitened
Neocons are the Stupidest. Idiots. Ever.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. "slam dunk"
:patriot:
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Rummy & Bush use fear of terrorism like Hitler used fear of Communism
Edited on Mon Dec-05-05 09:21 PM by tiptoe
Googled search results: +Hitler +"fear of communism"

(The fear mongerers turned out to be the real threat.)

Bush-Hitler: Hypnotizing The Masses by Russell M. Drake, July 20, 2004

Said by some to be more dangerous than Osama bin-Laden, he has been condemned as a "war maniac," called a "moron" by the Canadian prime minister’s chief spokeswoman, ridiculed as "The English Patient" for his struggles with language, and likened to Adolf Hitler.

Of all the labels hung on George W. Bush, the hardest to shake may be the comparison with Hitler.

Perhaps the clearest likeness between the two men lies in their use of emotionally induced hypnosis to plant in the mass consciousness an image of themselves as protectors of their subjects from threats to national survival both inside and outside the fatherland.

In a June, 2003 article written for The Nation about Bush’s "mastery of emotional language, especially negatively charged emotional language," clinical psychologist Reanna Brooks observed (1) that "Bush creates and maintains negative frameworks in his listeners’ minds with a number of linguistic techniques borrowed from hypnosis and advertising to instill the image of a dark and evil world around us."

His subliminal messages to justify religious war against "evildoers" are right out of Madison Avenue. Writing in The New Yorker of July 12 & 19, David Greenberg tells how Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson, "himself an evangelical, laces the President’s addresses with seemingly innocuous terms that the devout recognize as laden with meaning: ‘whirlwind,’ ‘work of mercy,’ ‘safely home,’ ‘wonderworking power.’"

Aspiring political hypnotists would do well to study Hitler as an introduction to Bush.

<snip>

(1) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6529.htm

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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. Jeez, what he didn't say is such a scenario is likely JUST from the war,
itself, just because we meddled in the ME without a thought to other possible outcomes! Whose fault will it be when this, which is looking more and more like an inevitability, does actually happen? Whether we start leaving now, or do so later may not even matter at this point. Jeez.

And does he really think that Iraqis think they can "count on America" now??? The recent Zogby poll sure doesn't say that they think that. Rummy and the other yoyos who got us into this are ultimately responsible for setting back any hope of a moderate Islam arising in the ME back by YEARS, if it will ever arise after this mess!
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Why didn't they think of this obvious outcome before they started the war?
Welcome to the New Crusades.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. This was the PREDICTED outcome
by those paying attention.

It is so frustrating to watch these dweebs screw things up and then whine that if they can't keep screwing things up things will get ever worse
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Charles19 Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. It was OBSOLUTELY predicted
Edited on Mon Dec-05-05 10:16 PM by Charles19
They knew it would happen too, they aren't that dumb. A perpetual problem requires a perpetual solution.

It isn't that hard to understand, the U.S. wants to occupy Iraq until judgement day, or it runs out of money, which do you think is going to happen first?

I know where I would put my money, oh wait that is my tax money... :-(.


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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
71. So true...it's a circular argument. eom
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. in other words our primary goal is to keep the arab world
balkanized
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Che_Nuevara Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. yes, but only because we can't credibly
turn the whole region into glass.
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. They were warned of an Islamist super state if US invaded Iraq.
I remember, don't you?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. What the Hell do I care?
They should have thought of that before they invaded Iraq. It is now time to pay for our sins!
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. You should have thought of that before you invaded.
A cake walk my ass. Do you know where the Peace Palace is? You can be spending a looooong time there.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. Perhaps. Guess who created it?
BushCheneyRumsfeldPNACNeocons.

Deal with it assholes
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. also the boogey man will GRAB you! nt
:bounce:
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
24. If this is true, then it must be working......

The evil Machiavellian plot of Michael Ledeen and the neoconservatives is bearing fruit, we are creating and forcing the recuitment of more and more radical insurgents, homegrown, even within the boundaries of Iraq. Already 80% of Iraqis want us out, and soon many will be uniting with their terrorist brothers and forming new and larger Islamic groups. Faster, dammit, faster! :sarcasm:

This is all playing into Rumsfeld and Cheney's grubby little hands. The American people are being mislead to believe that this is all in the cause of democracy, but little do they know that the only "democracy" that counts is in the boardrooms of the corporate shareholders who are supporting those sponsoring all the terrorism. Once this all plays out and boardroom democracy spreads across the entire Middle East, we can all breathe a sigh of relief and know that the corporatist way of life can only get better and better and better...........
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
25. And the alternative is.........
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
26. I thought this wasn't supposed to be a war on Islam
"Iraq would serve as the base of a new Islamic caliphate to extend throughout the Middle East, and which would threaten legitimate governments in Europe, Africa and Asia."

This sounds like a press release from the Crusades.
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
27. What Iraq needs is a strong, brutal, non-sectarian dictator!
Edited on Tue Dec-06-05 02:35 AM by BikeWriter
Where is Saddam when we need him? :shrug:
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. How about rearm Saddam?
Bush has to admit that overthrowing Saddam was a huge mistake. The biggest FUBR in history.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. LOL !! These days Saddam must be laughing himself to sleep
even if he is fighting for his life in a kangaroo court show trial.

He succeeded in doing what no other dictator has done - and unfortunately, it was very easy to do with a dumb douchebag like W as POTUS: He has dragged us down to his level.

:evilfrown:
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Someone must have passed information to Saddam telling him that
the resistance are doing very well in killing Americans and "bad-Iraqis"...otherwise, he wouldn't be that defiant in the court.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. Considering that hardly anybody in the WH, State Dept, CIA, or Pentagon
has a fucking clue about the language, customs, politics, etc. in Iraq, that's interesting food for thought.

:evilfrown:
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
58. Yes, and he (and his staff) should be punished for it.
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Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #27
41. A State Dept guy interviewed a week or so ago advocated brining back the
Baath party to power as they crack down on the Sunni fundamentalists.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
65. this is the problem: WTF are we in the middle of their civil war? A: *
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
28. Legalize drugs or not, these psychos are on some illicit $hit.
These killers supposedly invede Iraq for WMD, which they knew was BS.

The Iraqis know they can count on the * cabal to kill tens of thousands of their citizens and rape the country of its natural resources.

That is the one message they know.

--"The message that retreat would send to the free people of Iraq and to moderate Muslim reformers throughout the region and the world would be that they cannot count on America," Dumsfeld said.--

Notice how these assholes insert the free keyword whenever mouthing off their BS.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
31. so we can never leave? come on, rummy... you're an idiot.
Islamic superstate or not, we're not staying there to die off at a rate of 1000 kids per year. get a grip, old man... you f*^%ed this up, not us. IT'S ON YOUR HEAD.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
34. This like one of those screwed up adoption cases you read about.
Where the mother changes her mind within days of giving birth. She wants her baby. The "adoptive parents" refuse, and begin a series of lawsuits to prevent the natural mother from getting her offspring back. They manage to disregard court orders and drag things out until the child is a toddler, and then try to claim they MUST keep the child, because they are the "only family it's ever known". Disgusting.

Now they think Iraq is their child. Poor thing.

It makes me sick when they go on about how its "up to the Iraqi's" and "the Iraqis better get serious".

Yeah, get serious about finding people willing to die to protect
"OUR" oil and betray their own tribal loyalties.

We broke it. We can't fix it.
The 'pukes COUNTED on this, just like the analogous "adoptive parents".
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
35. What year is it, 1091? The advancing Caliphate?
If so, then maybe Count Donault d'Rausfail can mount his trusty charger, lace on his armor and go forth unto the Levant, there to wage war for the glory of his God and the liberation of Jerusalem.

:eyes:
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
39. Iraq was poor to begin with and is even more poor now.
Not exactly material for an islamic super-state.

In reality, Iraq will fall into a civil war and become even MORE devestated when we leave, and even less of a threat than it already never was.

At least the Nazis only tried to instill their fear and propaganda in Europe.

The Republicans are trying to use the same fear tactics globablly.

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
40. Mega, super, mother of all...
damn why don't they just call it what it is: a colossal fuck up.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
43. Neocons have CREATED this situation.
They're the only people who open a can of worms/Pandora's Box, stir up a hornet's nest, let the genie out of the bottle/cat out of the bag/horse out of the stable etc all at the same time.

(And then blame it on someone else!)
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. On purpose - to suck off war profits forever. nt.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
79. They are masters of deceit.
Playing the blame game. They're changing the topic from being "how did we get into this colossal fuckup?" to a debate between the high ground of honor and morality (we're number 1) "victory" and those treasonous, dishonorable liberals trying to "cut and run."

How about accountability? Certainly Rummy should have been fired.

How about the truth, that the FAILURE HAS ALREADY BEEN MADE. Now we have to make the best of it and minimize our losses, but there's not going to be a happy outcome.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
45. SUPERSTATE ! ! !
what a loon, recycled cold war theories? thats the BEST they can come up with?
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
47. Rumsfeld has been so correct about everyhing else.
Why should we doubt him now? :shrug:
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. Considering there are a whole lot of islamic people there
Edited on Tue Dec-06-05 11:46 AM by superconnected
I expect them to be and Islamic state, as opposed to say a Christian state.

Not a problem really, unless you hate Islam.

Rumsfield acts like it's a bad thing.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. Neocons are only pretending
to spread democracy. They should just admit they're on a mission from their God to spread their version of extremism.

Then they wouldn't have to bother with all this pesky democracy business that keeps coming up with results they don't like.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
49. Won't be as big as the christian superstate
the neocons are trying to force on America.
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demobrit Donating Member (279 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
50. This Guy is just a complete and utter asshole
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
51. Oh, I GET IT!!!
Edited on Tue Dec-06-05 11:51 AM by superconnected
Rumsfield thinks that ISLAM is synonomous with TERRORISM.

That's why he acts like it's a bad thing that an islamic country will be an islamic state.

Gee, blame Pat Robertson, Rummy. He's obviously slacking off in his spread of Christianity. Maybe if his Chaves fetish would subside he could focus on iraq. Bush spreading his 600 AD version of Christianity to the iraqis just isn't working.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Notice he didn't say Radical Islamic state.....
these guys can't wait to start a major holy war. Stir up the hornet's nest, faster, faster....before the 2006 elections.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
53. CRUSADE!
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
55. "Rumsfeld warns
Iraq will become a U.S. superstate if Islamics leave too soon"

:silly:
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
56. Gee, do you mean that...
...there's a chance Iraq might fall under the control of Iran?

:eyes:

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Podface Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
57. Well...
I thought the enemy was only a few bad apples Rummy? What a fucking idiot.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
59. The rest of the world is beginning to fear the U.S., not Islamic states.
All countries with sizable Muslim populations are beginning to feel the tremors of anger spreading because of what the U.S. has done.

The window of opportunity for a *cough* graceful exit has been slammed shut. Rumsfeld is now just a blathering old fool, words coming out of his mouth like drool from an infant.
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da_chimperor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
60. I think he has been reading too many Tom Clancy novels. n/t
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pbca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
61. It's possible, but so what?
There have been alot of muslim leaders calling for a united Islamic state from North Africa, through the Middle East to South Asia for about 100 years now. It's actually a fairly popular idea with many muslims. Why is it ok for the US to have a united superstate, made up of 50 individual states, but not anyone else? The US also opposed, to a lesser extent, the European Union in it's early days and occasional calls for a united Latin American state or a Pan African Union have met with swift and hostile reactions from the US.
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. An Islamic state won't happen
Iraq is also divided between Sunnis and Shiites and Kurds. I can't picture Sunni and Shiite fundamentalists working with each other.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Yeah but notice how both Sunnis and Shiites are now against us?
the strategy in the Middle East is playing out well.
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. With the exception of anti-U.S. hostility, they are against each other
As soon as we leave they will resume their fighting each one another.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #70
74. There seems to be evidence that we are aggravating the situation....

I saw a report recently where Sunnis living in Shiite neighborhoods (I'm not sure which city) coexisted peacefully with their neighbors until recently. Now they are experiencing violence and threats and many are seeking to relocate to areas that are not mixed.
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #74
78. The foreign insurgents are the one instigating Sunni-Shiit conflict
I believe that you're saying about most of them living peacefully, but the Sunni Al Qaeda-friendly foreign fighters have been targeting Shiites in hopes of starting a civil war.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
63. It's Already an Islamic State Because of YOU RUMSFELD
Real smooth blaming your political enemies to save face.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
66. Let's break it down shall we? (my comments in italics)

WASHINGTON - If U.S. forces leave too soon, Iraq will become a haven for terrorists already has and the base of a spreading Islamic superstate that would threaten the rest of the world which it may become due to the U.S. invasion, Secretary of Defense Donald Duck H. Rumsfeld said Monday.

Speaking at Johns Hopkins University's Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced Advanced? Really? International Studies, Rumsfeld warned that al-Qaida leaders such as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Osama bin Laden would seize power in the wake of an American withdrawal and turn Iraq into the kind of terrorist safe haven IT ALREADY IS! that Afghanistan was before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and still may be..

Moreover, Rumsfeld said: "Iraq would serve as the base of a new Islamic caliphate to extend throughout the Middle East which the U.S. has created, and which would threaten legitimate undemocratic dictator, puppet governments in Europe, Africa and Asia. This is their plan and the WH's. They We have said so. We make a terrible mistake if we fail to listen and learn which you've already done."

"The message that retreat would send to the free Really? people of Iraq and to moderate Muslim reformers throughout the region and the world would be that they cannot count on America they already can't Rummy," Rumsfeld said. "The message it would send to our enemies would be that America will not defend itself against terrorists in Iraq wrong, and it will not defend itself against terrorists anywherewrong again."
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
67. Of Course
The groups in the ME are well known for their ability to work together peacefully. :eyes: :rofl:
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. LOL. Excellent. The Islamo-Borg is coming.
:rofl::rofl:
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
72. yes and Tamiflu is the answer
to all ills, especially a pandemic that isn't. If dummy says it's so, then it must be so :sarcasm:
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miles55 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
73. Well no shit.....
I mean all we're doing is prolonging the inevitable. Give it another 10 years and the Shia in Iraq will cede their soverignty over to their "brothers in arms" in Iran.
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devinsgram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
76. I had the same reaction when I read the headline
Edited on Wed Dec-07-05 07:40 AM by devinsgram
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

My gosh do they think people are really that stupid to believe that non-sense. Never mind, I forgot who we're talking about. Forty percent of us are.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
77. Right. That shows you how much Rummy understands about the....
...various factions of the Islamic world.

What a moron.
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
82. neo-con Christian superstate = good, Islamic superstate = bad
don't you guys understand?
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
85. Well, at least he's admitting that he completely screwed up
by invading Iraq and turning it into a hornet's nest.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
86. Islamic Superstate? You mean like...the Ottoman Empire?
Gee, that idea worked out well. I think the notion of an Islamic Superstate pretty well withered away under the impact of the rise of modern nationalism. It's as likely to happen as Europeans are to reunite under the banner of "Christendom".

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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
87. Rummy, was this covered in the war plans that were not on Bush*s desk?
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
88. Yeah right, this guy has obviously never lived among arabs
The states here have difficulties in cooperating about anything.

Superstate, give me a break!

Honestly, they would be lucky to even setup an economic interest zone among all the countries...!
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
89. That guy has as much credibility as Joe Isuzu.
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