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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:43 PM
Original message
Bush: Prisoners aren't sent to nations that torture
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N06241657.htm

Bush: Prisoners aren't sent to nations that torture


WASHINGTON, Dec 6 (Reuters) - President George W. Bush said on Tuesday the United States does not secretly move terrorism suspects to foreign countries that torture to get information.

The process known as "rendition" has come under the spotlight after reports that the CIA was operating secret prisons in Europe for terrorism suspects.

"We do not render to countries that torture, that has been our policy and that policy will remain the same," Bush told reporters.

...

"We abide by the law of the United States, that we do not torture," he said. "We will try to do everything we can to protect us within the law."

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is there anything about which they will tell the truth...
if a lie will do? :mad:
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Debau2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Okay...
I think George has been dreaming of Oz again. He needs to return from the Yellow Brick road and back to reality!
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, then, I guess we don't have to worry about that anymore.
Bush said it, It must be true.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Who was it that said
the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. I want them to go on record with their lies as often as possible.
We call that "evidence." :evilgrin:
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. That is "We don't do the Gonzales definition of torture"
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. So true.
I suspect that they are subjected to methods of strenuous interrogation that are better performed in foreign countries.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. methinks he doth protest too much.
I can only imagine the heat they are getting backchannel.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. That an American president must defend his vice president's call
for torture to be allowed by the US clandestine services is really a statement on how far we have fallen as a country.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. "We" don't...Is that him and the Cheney in his pocket?
So who's lying?
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well, I guess it all depends on how the torture laws are written.
I am sure lots could be done that would be considered torture by most, yet would not meet the legal description.

Money quote: "We will try to do everything we can to protect us within the law."

Protect their asses? Take it right up to that legal gray area folks.

Olaf
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why Not Use Guantanomo?
The US has been able to use Guantanomo in Cuba to hold suspects without charges, trials or access to a lawyer. The names of the prisoners have not been released. However, those prisoners do at least now have some inspections by the Red Cross, I believe, and have been able to talk to a lawyer at times, and may get a basic hearing run by the military.

Since the US has Guantanomo, what would be the reason to ship prisoners to a different secret prison camp? The only reason would be if the US wanted to treat these prisoners more horribly than they can get away with at Guantanomo.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Bush is a big fat LIAR. * "we don't torture" except when Cheney
and Rice want to
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Magleetis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. FUGWB
liar!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. This must be a test of
how well their propaganda machinery is working. From this they can gage what to do.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. It was pointed out yesterday that all these statements are in the present
...tense.

The follow up question should be: "Did we EVER use rendition to send detainees to be tortured? If so, when did we stop?"
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. "within the law" is everything that doesn't cause organ failure or death
and "do everything we can to protect us within the law" isn't that about protecting his administration anyway? that's how i'm reading it. anything, including hiding the truth.
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. Two words: Meher Arar
Rendered to Syria, disappeared off the radar, finally located, eventually returned. Tortured. He's a Canadian citizen--was refused contact with Canadian consular officials before being disappeared.

Canadian intelligence (CSIS) works hand in glove with their US counterparts, by the way. They refuse to say how far they were involved in this.

Fuck Chimpy and fuck them.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. Then why is Condi on tour?
If you don't torture, then why do you need to respond to the allegations?

Besides, it's hard to contradict the hundreds of stories out there.

Maher Arar in our country is an example. It just proves that Shrub's lying.
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Sparkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. No WMD-9/11 tied to Saddam-Niger Yel Cake-Not about Oil-No black sites
sounds par for their course. Any who repeat these claims are viewed by the U.S. public as fools or propagandists.
Our national treasury has been looted, our military defrauded, our youths coerced into dying for a lie, our credibility reduced below the 1970's Vietnam Era lows, all by war profiteers and OIL company profits. One's theology is hard tested and streched thin by all this.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
20. this administration's eccentric definition
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/05/AR2005120501615.html

Ms. Rice said, "It is also U.S. policy that authorized interrogation will be consistent with U.S. obligations under the Convention Against Torture, which prohibit cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment." What she didn't explain is that, under this administration's eccentric definition of "U.S. obligations," cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment is not prohibited as long as it does not occur on U.S. territory. That is the reason for the secret prisons that the CIA has established in European countries and other locations around the world, and for the "renditions" of detainees to countries such as Egypt and Jordan: so that the administration can violate the very treaty Ms. Rice claims it is upholding.

So since we have to know what the meaning of "is" is, I call this more lying.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes, a lie, but also more than that.
There is also the "ends justify the means" and the "your hands aren't clean either" argument.

She stated that these methods were the most effective in obtaining information to protect people against terrorits. She also announced that Europeans had benefited from this behavior and had participated in the same sorts of things.
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. Is it opposite day?
Or is it just that *every* day is opposite day for the Repugs.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I realized that we hit bizarro world completely with the psy ops stories
MSM talking about fake news stories supplied by the Pentagon (Lynch, Tillman, ghost fleet, the Saddam statue, etc.) and then Rummy comes out and actually criticises the press for its coverage of Iraq.

Where are the lifeboats?
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. That's a lie
Condi said it yesterday and now W is saying it. We know that is a lie.
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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. Bush's statement is true to BushCo logic and that's the scary part.
Edited on Tue Dec-06-05 01:33 PM by Eugene
BushCo is trying to narrow the definition of torture
to include only life-threatening or permanent injury.
Everything else, including some techniques from
the Inquisition, does not count.

BushCo is trying to redefine what is acceptable conduct.
It is only a matter of time before they apply that standard
to American justice.

Bush is telling the truth in his own mind,
but he is a madman.
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SeattleVet Donating Member (708 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
27. Perhaps *technically* correct, but totally bogus anyway.
"We do not render to countries that torture, that has been our policy and that policy will remain the same," Bush told reporters.

Maybe not - the countries that we send them to may not perform torture as an officially sanctioned act, but they sure as hell aren't stopping the American "contractors" and others from doing it while they turn their backs.

We don't send them to countries that torture (then there's the part left unsaid "...but we do send them someplace where *we* can torture them with impunity").
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. He must be worried about life after office.
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ROakes1019 Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
29. Baer
Robert Baer just said on Tweety that what Bush was was absolutely not true. Furthermore, he said these renderees are simply killed and their bodies burned.
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