10News (San Deigo) Family Upset Over Marine's Body Arriving As Freight

10News.com

Family Upset Over Marine's Body Arriving As Freight

Marine Bodies Sent To Families On Commercial Airliners

SAN DIEGO -- There's controversy over how the military is transporting the bodies of service members killed overseas, 10News reported.

A local family said fallen soldiers and Marines deserve better and that one would think our war heroes are being transported with dignity, care and respect. It said one would think upon arrival in their hometowns they are greeted with honor. But unfortunately, the family said that is just not the case.

Dead heroes are supposed to come home with their coffins draped with the American flag -- greeted by a color guard. But in reality, many are arriving as freight on commercial airliners -- stuffed in the belly of a plane with suitcases and other cargo.

(snip)

Reporters from 10News called the Defense Department for an explanation. A representative said she did not know why this is happening.

http://www.10news.com/news/5504608/detail.html

Because just about everything the DoD does is now outsourced to private contractors?

time. Anyone who has escorted remains knows that's the way they go--in the belly of the A/C, next to the suitcases and mail and whatnot. The use of military aircraft is only for the journey as far as Dover, and even at that, often civilian air is used for the trip back to CONUS if someone dies in a place where military aircraft are not coming through on a regular basis. After that, when remains are transported to home towns, milair is the exception, not the rule.

The difference is that there are so many more bodies coming home, and not all of them, apparently, are escorted nowadays. They are counting on the overstretched reserve units to meet the aircraft and get the transfer tube looking good with the flag in place before the local funeral home shows up to transport the casket to the designated undertaker. A lot of times, especially in remote areas or places where the reserve units are threadbare, there isn't anyone to do this.

of shipment (and likely there was not) enroute to Miramar, the remains could end up sitting in Texas or elsewhere for a few days, or bounced from one aircraft to another, awaiting transfer.

I think the problem here is that either the remains were not escorted, or the reserves didn't have the manpower to haul out the honor guard. Back in the old days in San Diego, the ADCOMS (administrative commands) in the area had the responsibility for fielding honor guards in rotation. These guards routinely did eight to ten funerals for servicemembers each shift--most, though not all, were WW2 vets. Each command took a day, e.g. Naval Station on Monday, NTC on Tuesday, PT Loma on Weds, and so on. But with base consolidation, there are fewer commands to take on the assignments....and we know where a lot of the reservists are, these days.

If the remains are escorted, the escort officer is the one who sets up arrangements with the receiving service, be it the reserves or the responsible base, for the honor guard to meet the aircraft, and an escort officer to stay with the family while the casket is unloaded and prepared for transfer to the hearse.

I know this because I've done escort duty, AND been on one of those honor guards (in San Diego, in fact) in my past life.

From the news article, it's really not clear what the circumstances of the failure were - was the casket not accompanied by an escort officer, or did the escort simply fail to make the necessary arrangements for the proper handling of the casket in San Diego? The article simply doesn't say...

Personally, I think the policy of using commercial carriers for transport is reasonable - it's probably the most expedient way to return the remains to the family. Provided that established protocols (e.g. escort officer) are followed, I would say I don't have a problem with the practice.

Yeah right.

I hate this fucking country right now. I really,really, do.

why should we expect any better when they're dead?

Soon we'll see caskets coming down the luggage chute at baggage claim.

Need to save money for Halliburton's inflated contracts.

but they are supposed to come home to a honor guard.

As this fiasco progresses, more and more will come home this way - as freight without any fanfare. When the dead start arriving as freight, you know the government is trying really hard to hide it. Keeping a watch at a central location such as Dover is easier than trying to watch airports all over the country.

has ALWAYS been done. When you die in one area and want to be burried in a different place, the funeral director ships your body by freight to a funeral director in that area. That is not to say that the bodies of dead soldiers should be shipped that way, just that it has always been done for others that way. Maybe that is not common knowledge.

and that this has taken place for years. I'm more than aware of it actually. I'm a military wife and I live in Europe. In order for my body to get home, it too will be shipped as freight in the event of my death overseas. However, a soldier's body is subjected to certain regulations - one of those regulations being a honor guard must meet the body. If the bodies are coming through Dover (or another military site for the dead), then freighted out to their hometowns, that is one thing - but if they are coming directly through freight, without a honor guard to meet them, that is another. Protocol and ceremony matter. It's not the freight that bothers me - it's the lack of ceremony. Once they do away with the ceremony, the attitude toward the soldiers change - soon the disregard will be so blatant, that no one will care when these vets are screwed as badly as Vietnam vets were.

It's bad enough they are dying for lies without adding additional insult.

Shipping bodies is not normally something people think about, though, so I wasn't sure everyone knew it was common practice. I remember being a bit surprised when I found out that any plane I was traveling in could be carrying a body.

I don't think I could get my husband on an airplane if he thought it was carrying a body - he's a little bit weird about bodies. :-)

Though I've worked with the dead.

I just know the government turned against the soldiers after one unpopular war and they'll do it again. They blamed the anti-war protestors last time and they'll blame them again - but it's the government that's responsible for the poor treatment of the veterans.

I think it begins with disregard - that they would send troops to die for a lie is one form of disregard , yes - but for them to give up any pretense of "honor" is a bad sign...and shipping the bodies direct without a honor guard is the beginning of things to come. And you can't really cover it because it is so widespread through so many airports. Unless people bring it up like in the article.

People hear dead soldiers coming home and they think "Dover" or some other transport base for dead soldiers - so they assume the troops are being honored - and the government allows that assumption - while they ship the bodies direct without the honor guard. And the DOD claims they didn't know? Of course they're lying. The soldiers ship on a DOD manifest.

The morticians at Dover are responsible for ensuring that the body is fully prepped and dressed in the appropriate uniform. This is why the SERVREC accompanies the casket, so that the Dover people can verify awards and be sure that the ribbons are complete, rank is correct, and so on. If the deceased does not have a dress uni (happens with the reservists, either they left it home or theirs does not fit), they get one and put it on.

The civilian funeral director may choose to fluff up the work of the Dover people, but the remains are fully prepared before they even get to the funeral home. There will be a notation as to whether they are viewable or not. There are a few morticians in theater, but not many, and they do very basic work (embalming to prevent putrification), not the finishing touches. The body is shipped in a body bag, with the uni in a plastic sack with the personnel records on top, in the personnel transfer tube (aluminum casket) which is reusable--it's like an aluminum tupperware container, basically. Those get recycled back for use again.

and to think a local station would report on this is amazing.

:mad: Those Neo CON bastards probably think they can mask the stench of death by hiding our fallen service-members as "cargo"...

I wonder if they had yellow ribbons on the side of the airliners?:sarcasm: No, that would cost too much. Less money to be embezzled in IRAQ...

Just more proof that this administration that sent our people to fight and die in a country that never attacked us could give a shit about soldiers once they get through signing the enlistment paperwork! Less guys for Fearless Leader to have to pay VA benefits for...

Is the military supposed to do all the ruffles and fluorishes for every body that goes anywhere in the country? As thinly stretched as they are, I don't think they have the manpower to dispatch color guards all over the country to greet every coffin that's off-loaded all over the country.

And while I agree with the dignity and respect angle of things, a dead body can't be transported like a live passenger -- it is necessarily "freight" and handled accordingly. That means in with the rest of the luggage and other cargo. Surely the writer of the article isn't saying that (or is he?) that each body should get its own individual air transport or its own area set aside in the passenger compartment of a commercial flight?

How are they supposed to ship them? The guy is dead. Let's not get wrapped up on all the sugar coating performed to make dead soldiers seem less dead than they really are. Maybe if there were less flag-draped carrying on there'd be less lust for war in the first place, and the guy would still be alive. You want to save lives, ship'em home in a clear plastic body bag right down the luggage chute for all the world to see and let's see how long the war lasts.

Personally, I think it is a travesty and an insult to ship remains of our troops as just another piece of cargo.

The families have to live with the consequences of Bush's war while the Warrior-in-Chief sleeps peacefully at night without a care in the world.

This is the way it's done for ALL bodies, civilian and military.

That IS the "proper place" for bodies. It has always been done like this.

I certainly don't want no stiff in the seat next to me, nor do I want a casket in the middle of the plan - that just makes no sense.

THINK people!

in any airport and see how many human remains are shipped as cargo. I see them almost every day, and no one thinks anything of it. There's no other realistic way to get them back home, and with some remains, like observant Jews who must be buried in three days, it's an absolute necessity.

The question of military honors during transport is an entirely different thing.

I do remember one CEO who died, and his minions thought that being shipped in a cargo belly with the cats and dogs would be an insult, so they put him on the corporate jet. Unfortunately, thet couldn't get the coffin on the plane so someone was caught opening it to belt him in his favorite seat on the plane.

Cna ya guess how many rules and laws were broken by that bright idea?

What evidence is there to believe it?

Yes, we all know that should we die out of country - or even on a US base due to accident, that we will be shipped "back home as cargo" on a commercial flight. The thing to remember is that there will usually be a week or two between time of death and arrival at final destination. More than enough time to insure that the requirements for mustering an honor guard to accompany the body on the same flight can be made.

The problem that the writer is pointing out is that there are specific billets in areas such as Dover - and San Diego, as well as most military bases - where there are people assigned to be honor guards. Usually these men and women are in the public affairs, administration, and Chaplin's office. In a pinch, the military historically requests that soldiers/sailors in the duty section at the nearest base can be tasked to at least meet with an arriving flight and deliver it to the destination mortuary until an official honor guard can be mustered. Even if that nearest base is a couple hundred miles away, the military will generally get at least two people to receive the body as some sort of honor guard.

Two members of my ship did that back in 1980 when we were in Long Beach; dressed up in full dress, went down to LAX, met the plane and escorted a casket out of the plane, and stayed with it all the way up to Pismo Beach until it was delivered and the official honor guard caught up with it.

Coming into San Diego should not be an issue at all. MCRD is just "down the block", and finding two to four marines that looks good enough in full dress that's on duty and can show up at a moment's notice is not difficult. Most on that base would probably look upon it as an honor.

The other thing that sticks out is that the parents apparently had to get Senator Boxer involved to meet with the body at Lindberg when it arrived. I was under the impression that members of the family can be present for the arrival...

Haele

(BTW, I part of an honor guard twice for burials at sea.)

Certainly in San Diego, a major military post, having folks on hand for an honor guard shouldn't be an issue. Less sure, though, would be the arrival of a body in East Podunk. I wonder, though, if Sen. Boxer's intervention was actually necessary to secure an honor guard in this particular case.

I'm not sure how this story is supposed to play: There seems a lot outrage ginned up about bodies being transported as freight. But I don't see any reasonable alternative to their being transported in the belly of a commercial flight with the luggage and cargo. I know that in Oregon, the governor has attended (I think) the funeral of every casualty that's been interred in the state. That probably wouldn't be feasible in a more populous state like California, but we seem to average about one funeral or memorial every other week or so.

I guess it's good in any event to publicize and point up the real human cost of this war, because we sure as hell seem insulated and divorced from all the other costs.

it was a volunteer gig, and the volunteers came from all departments and divisions, everything from engineering types to boatswains to typists. You had to apply, be recommended, and be fit and squared away. In my unit, which did funerals one day a week (a ten+ hour day, usually), we always had the same crew and musician (to play taps on the bugle--the guy was always drunk, he had beer for breakfast and beer in his bugle case, but you never saw him, because he would hide under a bush or behind a tree, and he could make a stone statue cry). The rifle team (that was my gig) and pallbearers always practiced for an hour before we would get on a bus, and go wherever we needed to go--to an airport, occasionally (no rifles at that venue, so we would either assist with the casket or help the funeral director) or more commonly, to a gravesite.

But you know what? Times have changed since my day. They are NOT getting it done. And here's how I know. Go to this site, where DOD has it set up so that civilian funeral directors can get info on how to request assistance. Click on enter...I get an error message. Do you?

http://www.militaryfuneralhonors.osd.mil/

could be just a temporary failure.

Where are the duty computer dweebs? Off Christmas shopping?

"Is the military supposed to do all the ruffles and fluorishes for every body that goes anywhere in the country?"

i would say yes. how many are in a color guard? get three, four or five and let that be their jobs.

honor the troops? isn't that all we've been hearing for the last couple of years? well, i think the hypocrites should freakin honor the troops!

and the representative from department of defense said they had no idea why this was happening? well....glad there's not another war for them to have no idea about...

This story blew me away. I cried for days. Everyone who dreamed up this insane war needs to read it.
Yes, the people sitting on the plane remained silent and watched at the casket was lowered to the tarmac.
Yes, many cried and held their children up to the window, to honor the fallen soldier.



It's a touching 12 essays.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news/article/0,1299,DRMN_3_4224657,00.html

The last few paragraphs are poignant, and the last line in the first one refers to the fallen marine returning via that commercial plane:

When a young Marine in dress uniform had boarded the plane to Reno, the passengers smiled and nodded politely. None knew he had just come from the plane's cargo hold, after watching his best friend's casket loaded onboard.

At 24 years old, Sgt. Gavin Conley was only seven days younger than the man in the coffin. The two had met as 17-year-olds on another plane - the one to boot camp in California. They had slept in adjoining top bunks, the two youngest recruits in the barracks.

All Marines call each other brother. Conley and Jim Cathey could have been. They finished each other's sentences, had matching infantry tattoos etched on their shoulders, and cracked on each other as if they had grown up together - which, in some ways, they had.

When the airline crew found out about Conley's mission, they bumped him to first-class. He had never flown there before. Neither had Jim Cathey.

On the flight, the woman sitting next to him nodded toward his uniform and asked if he was coming or going. To the war, she meant.

He fell back on the words the military had told him to say: "I'm escorting a fallen Marine home to his family from the situation in Iraq."

The woman quietly said she was sorry, Conley said.

Then she began to cry.

When the plane landed in Nevada, the pilot asked the passengers to remain seated while Conley disembarked alone. Then the pilot told them why.

The passengers pressed their faces against the windows. Outside, a procession walked toward the plane. Passengers in window seats leaned back to give others a better view. One held a child up to watch.

From their seats in the plane, they saw a hearse and a Marine extending a white-gloved hand into a limousine, helping a pregnant woman out of the car.

On the tarmac, Katherine Cathey wrapped her arm around the major's, steadying herself. Then her eyes locked on the cargo hold and the flag-draped casket.

Inside the plane, they couldn't hear the screams.

Some of them took me back in time a bit. I'd forgotten how rough that job is.

I read the first essay, the one you posted, and couldn't go on. I often choke back tears at news of the fallen, but I outright cried at this story. Very sad. I have to recover and read the remaining stories later.

:cry:

That's very telling. It's a fucking miserable excuse for a WAR. It is not a "situation". It is a boondoggle, a mess, a whatever you wish to call but don't prettify it for public consumption. God, can't any of them tell the truth?

Another needless death in a criminal war.

First you're cannon fodder, then you're worm fodder. The operative word being, of course, "fodder". Don't you love your country?

:hi:

Do you buy your food in the grocery store? Do you shop in Department stores? Do you own an IPOD? How about your internet hook-up? What kind of car do you drive? Are you insured?

Every single fucking dollar that we give them we lose a little bit of ourselves. We are all fodder. We are the modern day serfs.

They are dead. People really find some of the dumbest things to complain about.

The coffins sit, unceremoniously, on the tarmac until they are transported on the next flight.

god damn you gwb.

Later, a retired Vietnam veteran approached us, who also confided that Ramstein Air Base was receiving several casualties, almost daily. He said that the day before we’d arrived, approximately 20 flag-draped caskets were resting on the tarmac. He said that if we were to stay another day, we would see more caskets waiting to be transported to Landstuhl Army Hospital to be prepared before being sent stateside, to Dover. He was disgusted with the war in Iraq and asked, "What are we there for? Did we not learn anything from Vietnam? What a hell of a mess that war was. We refused to listen to France's warning about going into Vietnam. It's unlikely we've learned anything from the USSR's ten year quagmire in Afghanistan." He was very knowledgeable about the US’ preemptive strike against Iraq and was highly critical of the Bush administration. He thought the leadership at the Pentagon was dismal and its planning poor. He thought Bush’s go-it-alone foreign policy was reckless and his coalition weak, that coalition members offered no substantial support, and now it was unraveling, with coalition countries evaporating in the heat of conflict. He predicted that if the Bush administration has its way, the US would be invading Iran next. He couldn’t see an end in sight. He told us that none of the 9-11 perpetrators was from Iraq, that most had been Saudis, and that the Bush family was a business partner of the Bin Laden family. He spoke, with disgust, about Diebold Election Systems, and that he believed the election had been stolen. He told us that the only news media he could tolerate anymore was the BBC.

:grr:

what do these parents want? respect? their child to be treated with dignity?

We're fighting a war here. The casualties don't know the difference, anyway.

not a passenger when dead.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

Get used to it folks. It's the Privatization revolution, brought to you by corporate CEO's that lavish hookers and french furniture on our elected officials.

Wonder what airline got the contract, and how much money they spent to buy the government.

This is really cheezy. Saving a few pennies so he can give another huge tax cut to the upper .05%.

But how do they expect their dead loved ones to come home??--- as passengers occupying seats in the main cabin?

this sentence from the OP explains the common expectation in contrast with the reality:

I should have read the post more carefully-- my mistake.

Disneyland via first class? This country is just so screwed up it's not even funny anymore. Support the troops, my ass.

the body of a fallen soldier, it is the most heart wrenching thing I have ever witnessed, and yes we move the soldiers escorting the body to first class, the airline does not upgrade them, the crew does, always. On that particular occassion there were at least 4 passengers who offered to give up their seat for him.

Does the White House have an online suggestion box?

As far as I know, coffins have always been in the cargo hold. Which is why I hope to never seen them unloading a plane I am on.

often "bumped" to first class.

See the story I posted above. W/picture.