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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:14 PM
Original message
BBC: Second night of riots hits Sydney (Target: Arabs, Mediterraneans)
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 11:20 PM by Nothing Without Hope
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4521442.stm
Last Updated: Monday, 12 December 2005, 14:26 GMT

Second night of riots hits Sydney




Caption: More than 30 people were injured in fighting on Sunday

Violence triggered by race tensions has hit Sydney for a second night, with youths damaging cars and shops.
A reporter in the suburb of Cronulla, where dozens were arrested after riots on Sunday, described scenes of "chaos".

Police said carloads of people had come into the area from other parts of Sydney and committed violent acts.

Australian Prime Minister John Howard condemned the weekend's attacks by thousands of young white men on people of Arabic and Mediterranean background.

(snip)

The clashes follow an assault on two lifeguards last week, reportedly by youths of Middle Eastern origin.


(More info, history, and a VIDEO link can be found on the linked BBC page.)

Remember that John Howard has been playing the fearmongering card for a long time, talking about how terrorists are a huge scary problem and are planning to attack Australian cities. This has been useful in keeping him in power and also in letting him and his administration pass something that may be even worse than the US Patriot Act. For example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1810472
thread title: Powers Pave Way for Secret New World (About an Aussie version of the Patriot Act)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5286157
thread title: Australia govt accused of security (terra) scare campaign

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4413338.stm
article title: BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Australia plans army terror role

This is the natural result of hate- and fear-mongering. After enough lies about brown-skinned Arabic-looking people being terrorists, and people get angry and scared enough, these people will inevitably be victimized by thugs looking for scapegoats and an excuse for violence. Just like Hitler Youth - and you can bet the bullies loved doing it and feeling ever so manly and patriotic. John Howard may be making statements deploring this behavior (presumably while keeping a straight face), but his own government's actions have caused it and it is entrenching him in power.

Doesn't John Howard's political strategy sound familiar?




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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Race, Gender, Class, Empire. Story of our times.
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. What are Mediterranean backgrounds?
Greeks? Italians? I am never sure and thought I'd ask.
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. They're trying to be politically correct. In this case it's Lebanese. n/t
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. The BBC article says nothing about specificity targetting the Lebanese
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 11:37 PM by Nothing Without Hope
Surely this is not just an attempt to be politically correct, as it would be entirely misleading.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. I think you'll get a better idea from the Australian media...
They were definately targetting people of Lebanese descent. There was a text message sent out inviting people to bash 'Lebs'. The Age http://www.theage.com.au as well as the Sydney Morning Herald http://www.smh.com.au is giving a really good and imo accurate coverage of what happened...

Violet...
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Thanks for this clarification. Why Lebanese? Are there a lot of people
of Lebanese descent in Australia, or is there a marked localization or stratification that is specifically Lebanese?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I think there are a lot. But there's also Lebanese gangs...
..as there are Chinese gangs, and heaps of other gangs of varying ethnicities in Sydney....

Violet...
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Is this fairly specific to Sydney, or is it also seen in other major
Australian cities? The riots are said to be taking place in Sydney, and the BBC article makes it clear that people were coming some distance to that beach. I have no idea how diverse the culture and demographics of Australian cities is and how this affects racial tension. Do the areas that most strongly support John Howard also have the worst prejudice?

And thank you for your patience with my ignorance.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I'm in Canberra and the answer's no for here...
Of course we're one of the strongest Labor bastions in Australia, and back after Sept 11 when there were random attacks on Muslims in other parts of the country, there was nothing here, so maybe we're not indicative of the country as a whole. But I heard tonight it hadn't spread past Maroubra, and the gangs fighting in Maroubra had kissed and made up publicly...

I'm not sure if areas that have voted for the Liberals are prone to the worst prejudice. The prejudice in the blue ribbon areas is more subtle eg putting in objections to plans to build mosques. And the worst prejudice comes from those who think the Liberals are just too tolerant for them, which is why the Libs lost voters when the One Nation party was in it's hey-day...

Violet....
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Thanks for this. As I've posted downthread, some violence has spread
to two other Australian cities and BBC has put up another article, this time actually saying "Lebanese."

It's past 4 AM here in New England, and I'm off to bed for some hours. Thanks again for your comments.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Racist text messages surface on Gold Coast
Mobile phone text messages calling for people to start "cracking skulls" have surfaced on the Gold Coast.

The text messages targeting ethnic groups are similar to ones which sparked the Sydney race riots.

Gold Coast district Superintendent Brett Pointing said police were trying to find the authors of the latest messages.

The messages promote a mass beach demonstration similar to the one at Cronulla Beach on Sunday, organised in retaliation to the bashing of two lifeguards the previous week.

The gathering spurred the racial unrest that has rocked Sydney with violent bashings and widespread vandalism.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/racist-text-messages-surface-on-gold-coast/2005/12/13/1134236058794.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
biggles1 Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. ..and the Sweeping Statement Award for today goes to......
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yes, Greeks, Italians, and others from around the Mediterranean. These
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 11:31 PM by Nothing Without Hope
people are often olive-skinned and dark-haired. I am assuming that the reason they are attacked as well as people of Arabic descent is that they LOOK like they might be Muslim. There have been breakouts of anti-Muslim violence in the US, for example after the 9/11 attacks, and similar things happened. Men in turbans were targetted in the post-9/11 US "anti-Arab" attacks, though in the US most of such people would likely be Sikhs and neither Arabic nor Muslim. In the US, so much of the population has Mediterranean and Central/South American ancestry, it's not as dangerous to be olive-skinned as it apparently is right now in eastern Australia.
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. There is a LOT more to this story than meets the eye.
If you live in Sydney you'll know what it's like to be caught up at a soccer game between Serbs and Croatians, or getting caught up at a rugby league game featuring Canterbury-Bankstown where the Lebanese gangs do their damage.

This is the culmination of an ethnic gang rivalry that has been brewing for about 10 years.
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biggles1 Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Rooboy, this is nothing of the sort.........
this is NOT a fight between 'rival ethnic gangs'. It's yet again, a demonstration by us Aussies of the cyclical manner in which we tend to marginalise and fear the most recent 'arrivals' to this country. It's been happening since the arrival of the Irish for God's sake!

Each group has been subjected to the same villification - the Italians, Greeks, Serbs, Croats, Chinese, Vietnamese and, finally, the latest to our shores, those from the middle east. The thing we don't seem to realise is that, given time and the passing of a generation, each of these groups has managed to fit neatly into this mix of cultures we call Australia.

It's not new. What IS new is the manner in which the flames have been fanned by Howard's despicable manipulation of public fears over terrorism - a la his personal hero, George W.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Welcome to DU, biggles1!
And thanks for your insights. Any further information would be appreciated, as we in the US know so little about the racial situation in Australia.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Welcome to DU, biggles1
And do tell us about the Howard gov't when you can..

:toast:
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. Rooboy said it was a culmination, and he's right...
It's just that the culmination grew much huger than just the gangs....

Yr right too in saying that each generation there's a different group that's vilified -- it's been going on since the arrival here of Chinese attracted by the goldrushes in the 1900's...

But Rooboy is right about this being a culmination of gang-warfare that's been simmering away for years. When this blew up, it was bigger than the gangs involved, due to the racial incitement of talk-back radio hosts like that racist fuckwit Alan Jones (who should be charged with racial vilification).

Alan Jones: I'm the person that's led this charge

This thing wasn't about the Cronulla locals 'taking' back their beach - I've talked today to enough people who have family and friends in Cronulla to know that the drunken racist yobbos who rioted rushed to Cronulla from elsewhere....

It made me feel sick when I saw these racists who converged on Cronulla wrapping the flag around themselves in an attempt to make what they were doing something about patriotism. What these brainless morons can't grasp is that the 'lebs' they started hunting down are Australians as well...

btw, welcome to DU. You should come hang out in the Australia forum and talk to other Australians :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=199

Violet...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
biggles1 Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Grandcell, I'm not sure of your age,
and therefore your experience of racial tension in this country, but I can assure you I've heard the SAME statements made over the 50 years of my life in connection to Greeks, Yugoslavs, Chinese, Vietnamese, and so on.

"They're a threat to our way of life. Their parents teach them to hate us. They don't respect our women.".....etc, etc, etc.

And yet, after a generation or two, with goodwill and tolerance prevailing on ALL sides, those groups have, by and large, fitted comfortably into our wonderful country.

Your xenophobia is NOT original. Pick up a history book.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. We hear little of racism in Australia here in the US, and any insights
you can add would be greatly appreciated. This is a worldwide problem, and as you say, it has been incubating for a long time.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Little? I've heard quite a lot
Ever seen Romper Stomper?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. I've never seen Romper Stomper...
I've always hated Russell Crowe and avoid anything he's in...

Violet....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Eureka Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Misleading headline! Last night was the retaliation
and was targetted against anyone/anything that lived/was parked in Cronulla and surrounds.

Sunday was the day the Lebanese were targetted. The second round, last night, was the revenge attacks by the Lebanese.

Not that it really matters, but the headline suggests there were two days of the same.

Sunday - Tit

Monday - Tat
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. Links for that?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Here's something...
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Terrifying n/t
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. Opening post in PLAIN TEXT FORMAT showing the full URLs of the links
BBC: Second night of riots hits Sydney (Target: Arabs,
Mediterraneans)

[div
class="excerpt"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4521442.stm
Last Updated: Monday, 12 December 2005, 14:26 GMT 
[h3]Second night of riots hits Sydney[/h3]
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41111000/jpg/_41111812_ap_blood203.jpg

[i]Caption:  More than 30 people were injured in fighting on
Sunday[/i]

Violence triggered by race tensions has hit Sydney for a
second night, with youths damaging cars and shops.
A reporter in the suburb of Cronulla, where dozens were
arrested after riots on Sunday, described scenes of
"chaos".

Police said carloads of people had come into the area from
other parts of Sydney and committed violent acts.

Australian Prime Minister John Howard condemned the weekend's
attacks by thousands of young white men on people of Arabic
and Mediterranean background.

(snip)

The clashes follow an assault on two lifeguards last week,
reportedly by youths of Middle Eastern origin.
[/div] 

(More info, history, and a [b]VIDEO link[/b] can be found on
the linked BBC page.)

Remember that John Howard has been playing the fearmongering
card for a long time, talking about how terrorists are a huge
scary problem and are planning to attack Australian cities. 
This has been useful in keeping him in power and also in
letting him and his administration pass something that may be
even worse than the US Patriot Act.  For example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1810472
thread title:  [b]Powers Pave Way for Secret New World [/b] 
(About an Aussie version of the Patriot Act)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5286157
thread title:  [b]Australia govt accused of security (terra)
scare campaign [/b]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4413338.stm
article title:  [b]BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Australia plans
army terror role [/b]

[b]This is the natural result of hate- and fear-mongering. 
After enough lies about brown-skinned Arabic-looking people
being terrorists, and people get angry and scared enough,
these people will inevitably be victimized by thugs looking
for scapegoats and an excuse for violence.  Just like Hitler
Youth - and you can bet the bullies loved doing it and feeling
ever so manly and patriotic.  John Howard may be making
statements deploring this behavior (presumably while keeping a
straight face), but his own government's actions have caused
it and it is entrenching him in power. [/b]
[h1]Doesn't John Howard's political strategy sound
familiar?[/h1]
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AlamoDemoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. One can think back of History
and wonders why all this is taking place of a good nation like that of Australia?

Well, look down on a dirt floor, and see on the mob you just used on the same floor!

Dirt comes out when you squeeze from the old dirt.....as you continue to mob on the floor, you will notice that there are always particles of dirt left behind!



There you find out that you need to clean up, and replace the old mobbing floor!
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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
15. BBC: Sydney police 'to get new powers'
Last Updated: Tuesday, 13 December 2005, 05:34 GMT

Sydney police 'to get new powers'

Police in Sydney will be given tough new powers to crack down on rioters,
the New South Wales premier has said.

The state parliament will meet on Thursday "to deal with criminals and
thugs who are causing disturbances across our city," said Morris Iemma.
<snip>
The New South Wales authorities will seek to grant police the power
to close bars and shops selling alcohol during times of unrest,
Mr Iemma told a news conference on Tuesday.

They will also investigate the use of so-called lock down zones, involving
"road closures, cordoning off a certain area... and cars being able to be
randomly searched," Mr Iemma said.
<snip>

Full article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4523426.stm
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Shades of the US Patriot Act. Is there a history of racial profiling by
police in Australia as there is in the US?

Thanks for adding this to this post.

(Links to some earlier threads on scary powers being taken by the Australian govt under John Howard in the opening post.)
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
17. maybe its only me
but who in the hell would want to attack an aussie city?? is there something to gain from this?

every single australian I have ever met has been a complete prejudice asshole against people of other ethnicities.
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biggles1 Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Wow! Hopefully it IS only you with that thought!
Whilst we CERTAINLY have our share of red-neck reactionary racists in this country (as evidenced by the rioting at Cronulla), I don't think that makes us much different from ANY Western country with a healthy migrant program. It doesn't put those people in a majority either.

Given also that we have one of the most diverse populations in the world, we haven't done too badly with regard to getting on with one another, don't you think.....?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. You mustn't have met many of us then...
Most of us aren't complete prejudiced arseholes at all....

Violet...
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. My experience has been the opposite. I've never been to Australia, but
I've never noticed overt racial prejudice in the Australians I've met in the US and in Japan. The ones that I got to know the best have been delights.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
28. Related new thread: Racial violence may be spreading beyond Sydney:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1983053
thread title (12/13 LBN): (Australian) Race attacks spread to Perth, Adelaide

Doesn't sound like nearly as many people are involved so far, but it's an alarming development.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
29. ***Another new BBC article samples reaction from the Australian Press;
This article specifies the Lebanese descent instead of only the vague "Mediterranean or Arabic" of the article in the opening post. it also indicates that opinion that racial tensions have been simmering under the surface for some time is widespread. Interesting to read the excerpts from various Australian newspapers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4522326.stm
Last Updated: Tuesday, 13 December 2005, 00:02 GMT

Riots shock Australian press




Caption: The riots started at a Sydney beach on Sunday

Two days of racially-motivated rioting on Sydney's beachfront has prompted shock and soul-searching in Australia's press.

Images of brawling youths are splashed across the front pages of all Australian newspapers, with headlines crying "shame", "race warfare" and "blood on the beach".

Many see the fighting between youths of European and Middle Eastern origins in the beach resort of Cronulla as a challenge to Australia's image as a modern and open society at ease with itself.

(snip)


The article quotes from three Sydney publications (the Morning Herald, the Daily Telegraph, and The Australian) as well as The Age (Melbourne) and the Courier Mail (Brisbane),
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
34. A mob of FIVE THOUSAND and no lynching?
Man... Them Aussies are way behind our Southern rednecks in the old days.
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truthInCO Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
36. Those rowdy 'youths' again n/t
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
37. kick - I'll look for an update late tonight and post it here n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
biggles1 Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Grandcell, what's your point....?
Given the almost daily linking of ANY terrorist threat with those of the Muslim faith, why wouldn't the peaceful amongst that faith want to separate themselves from any connection?
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