U.S. Spying Is Much Wider, Some Suspect (LAT)

for several reasons:

1. I'm Muslim
2. I'm an evironmentalist
3. I'm a peace activist
4. I'm a Sam Waterston fan (hey, he supports The Nation and several liberal causes, and check out my sig line for a quote from him!)

So maybe we all are being surveilled.

::Wave:: Hi, agent Mike!

Impeach? Chimp? Darth Cheney?

from the article:

Phone companies and others have cooperated with U.S. agencies including the NSA for years. In the early 1990s, AT&T agreed to use an NSA-designed chip to ensure that law enforcement had access to phone calls.

And AT&T has a database code-named Daytona that keeps track of phone numbers on both ends of calls as well as the duration of all land-line calls, according to a business executive who has been briefed on the system.

"This started as a way for phone companies to dig out fraud," the executive said Saturday. After Sept. 11, intelligence agencies began to view it as a potential investigative tool, and the NSA has had a direct hookup into the database, he said.

After such massive volumes of information are collected, they are searched for suspicious language. The administration could thus argue that only hundreds of people were monitored because those conversations were the ones that were flagged because they contained suspicious words, Schneier said.

that means in the last month they have found out:
My pet name for my husband, and that he calls me once a day to tell me when he's coming home and if I should get anything at the grocery store.
My mother calls or I call her once a week and she is very very hard of hearing.
That I volunteer for a nonprofit and have to call to ask for information to post online (I do PR).
That Altell messed up the phone line at work and I had to call all the techs in the field to call in to my personal cellphone if they had problems finding houses they were supporsed to spray for bugs.

I'm sure the rest of you have similar earth-shattering conversations.

...in regards to information they want to gather for whatever purposes. That should be rather obvious to even the most skeptical of DU posters.

Additionally, IMHO, the NeoCon Junta is using terrorism as a cover for gathering information they are using to tighten their control of the country.

The mere fact that these people are monitoring every form of communication that we use should piss you off as much as it pisses me off.

"... the NeoCon Junta is using terrorism as a cover for gathering information they are using to tighten their control of the country."


It seems there are several functional developments going on simultaneously:

'Public watchers'/monitors are being selected and trained by the neocon-led administration with its own concept of who fits the profile for both watcher and watched - and this process is being constantly 'upgraded', still in the early stages of full permanent implimentation (unless there's any real congressional challenge).

The selection process for monitors is akin to the hiring/promotion process in public service at this point. I've heard they like Mormons. They want unquestioning loyalty. The watched and suspected are at the other end of the spectrum - vocal critics of shifting policy - as much as or more so than Muslims mostly trying to keep out of the suspicion loop and frankly not nearly as suspicious in politics or behavior as the 911 make-over officially depicts.

Then there's how the information gets handled. The volume must be staggering. Mostly gathered by automatic logs, the whos who ultimately review and decide on rating dissidents are not about to open up on their strategy for imposing restrictions and penalties. It's clear though that they'll seek to make criticism of the regime come with a cost.

(to my wife calling from a cell phone to home): "OK. That's good. Great. OK. So where are you now? OK. So when do you think you'll be heading home? Oh. OK. So. About an hour and a half. OK. You don't need to call again. See you then. Love you. Bye."

My e-mail, OTOH, is downright subversive.

edit: I hasten to add that these were suggested key words. I ended up at a different place in the thread...

recency, frequency and proximity of words & phrases.

the really scary part is that they think that they have achieved TIA...


these folks have a extremely dangerous god complex :scared:

peace

and then crunch into a hug relational database which anyone with access to can ask all sorts of questions such as "who did x communicate with by phone or email on this day and what topics were discussed?"

I mean I'm just guessing that is what they would want to have, and they have had billions and billions of dollars to build just such a system, and have been doing so for the last 20 years or so.

and then from that, find a few things of interest. They didn't appear to consider how the potential for abuse is so immense also.

I think the NSA was well aware of the potential for abuse and that this sort of abuse was in fact designed into the system, in terms of flexibility and pervasiveness, and was in fact one of its key selling points when funding was up for discussion. Of course 'abuse' can be framed in all sorts of ways to make it palatable.

I am a pacifist

I fly this flag...



I have this on my car.....




and I freely say fuck bush. I figure I am tagged.

sticker...I also have the "Pants on Fire" doll hanging in the back of the Window too!

Guess we are both "tagged"...but guess what?? I asked my very wise father in law, a now retired professor who has seen a lot in his life time, is very well read and well traveled and asked him point blank since he has studied such issues going back to the rise of the 3rd Reich, lived through the days of Mcarthyism on college campuses and the black lists, lived through the Civil Rights movements and Anti-Vietnam protests, Watergate and the Nixon "lists" - What do we do?

His advise: Everyone, everyone needs to continue speaking out, the more the better and if you have been doing it, step it up a notch. He said as long as people speak out, even if there are tough times ahead, they cannot win and it will not only slow them down, it will eventually destroy them.

He said they know that too. And he said that their spying shouldn't scare us, it should just kick things up a notch for all of us.

So you know what this means LeftChick? It means for the New Year, we add even more stickers and additional messaging....

Namaste Sister! :hi:

I am already thinking of new bumperstickers for 2006!

:hi:

I am always looking for great messaging! And in this next year, we are going to need it!

I'm hoping for a happy new year and the truth coming out and the Bush Cabal being exposed to the world for all to see!

to know where I'm coming from is to read my blog

sorry 'bout that

(emphasis added)

snip

The NSA's wholesale collection of signals intelligence overseas has given the Bush administration some of its biggest successes in the war on terrorism.

U.S. intelligence and counterterrorism officials confirmed to the Los Angeles Times that NSA intercepts were instrumental in capturing such high-value Al Qaeda chieftains as Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh, who had both boasted shortly before their capture in 2003 of being masterminds of the Sept. 11 attacks. NSA intercepts also placed Osama bin Laden at the battle of Tora Bora in Afghanistan.


Biggest successes?? Funny how * then allowed OBL to escape.

Failure is success... I need to get with the program.

I haven't heard anyone complaining about overseas surveillance, and I'm betting such surveillance was protected with a warrant, too.

The bush administration is counting on the fact that most Americans cannot think logically. Either that, or most Americans are happy to be spoonfed information that would gag a maggot.

Feel a deep, abiding and constantly gnawing shame. A shame that, someday, leads them to find the wherewithall to come forward and tell what they know about this sordid and shameful chapter in the history of the NSA and the country. I hope they can find a way to do whatever they can to see that this never, ever happens again. This is where the rubber hits the road for them an their citizenship. Let us see what they are truly made of.

For if they don't, then they have turned their backs on their fellow citizens and have, in truth, forfeited the right to call themselves Americans.

:shrug:

:evilgrin:

peace

sounds like a DU CT thread

What does that mean?

peace

And all those experts being quoted in the article...well, they are just (fill in the blank with appropriately contemptuous word).

But, thanks for letting me know!

Of course, they were just piling on like The New York Times and Washington Post -- despite the fact that the CIA was working in cahoots with drug lords during Iran-Contra. Not that the press corpse covered that.

And the CIA Inspector General's report stating Webb was correct. That seems to have been left out of the LA Times reporting of Mr. Webb.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/121304.html

Do you think the LA Times, like The New York Times, did a good job covering the WMDs in Iraq before the war?

"conspiracy theorist" and I made a highly amusing (or so I thought :) ) and rather sarcastic remark about the LAT being a questionable source, since that is where I had gotten the article that was posted in the OP. Now you've just lost me completely.

Or are you saying a news story in which an outlet really does come out and present some new material should be questioned because of past mistakes?

What do you think of the material the article presented?

Sorry to be unclear. I wanted to add to your discussion with bpilgrim the idea that there is a conspiracy of goals, if not fact, on the parts of the major news media. The "press corpse" has continually supported Bush -- before his Selection, before the fraudulent run-up to the illegal invasion of Iraq, and since as all the various criminal and treasonous facts have emerged.

My original comments are below in the thread. I wrote it was my guess the Bush Mafia would use information gathered by its extensive domestic spying to damage or neutralize political opposition. That's what Nixon did in Watergate.

Regarding the LA Times itself: Most of its journalists are good, hard-working people. Most of their work is outstanding -- they recently did a bang-up job chronicling how "Curveball" pused the case for WMDs in Iraq.

The publisher, The Tribune Company, though, takes the corportacracy's perspective on the big picture. That means supporting the Bush Mafia.

Rergarding "CT," the major US media have done all they can to denigrate anyone who opposes the right-wing's criminality. That includes the LA Times (owned by The Tribune Company) and the other handful of major corporations that control most of the news Americans "consume."

If you find a moment, my rationale for feeling this way can be found here:

A Short History of Conspiracy Theory

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4086438&mesg_id=4086438

Like you, I want to see the criminality of the Bushes and their illlegitimate government exposed and the guilty prosecuted. Sometimes the goal gets in the way of politeness. Please forgive me.

i was channeling the neoCONs ;->

peace

Anything Nixon did, the Bush Mafia will do.

Again.

2002 elections?

Run-up to the Iraq war?

Spying on UN members who might negotiate peace?

Nah...it's never happen. It would be wrong.





:mad:

And why not- no one's watching- no one's checking up in any way-
any time someone attempts to go against the fascist regime they'll know beforehand.

done.

You would think he would have been done - cooked whatever after Katrina. Since he is/was not,
how could a little thing like domestic spying on his political opponents do him in?

The American people won't stand for being spied on? OHHHH - You might be doing something to ME, NOT that guy over there that I really don't care about? Collectively I guess they were okay with watching their own countrymen drowning in front of them, where were their rights? and they are okay with their children dying in a needless war, where were their rights?, and they are a-okay with the government taking the money of their parents and grandparents and giving it to the super filthy rich, where were their rights?

If America is fed up with Bush after domestic spying and not with all the rest, I guess that says a whole lot about us as a nation doesn't it.

If I were Bush, I would be emboldened to shoot the moon. Why not? Like a spoiled child he is doing exactly what we as the American people have trained him to do. Whatever he pleases. Oh sure, the press might be a little bad, but after each debacle he pats himself on the chest - "Hey I'm Still Here!" Woo Hoo!!!, "Hey That Wasn't So Bad"...

and more people to turn away from Bush. Soon we will have critical mass.

I sure hope you are right because I absolutely see Bush doing the political spying. Question is, will it be found out and something done about it legally or will it be swept under the table.

My bet based on what I've seen so far, is, it will be swept under the table, just like Katrina, just like Iraq and just like the torture issue and secret prisons.

It will be the latest OOOOOhhh in this twisted corrupt government reality show that the media is finally cashing in on, but not too much because they want to keep the series going. Legal, illegal has nothing to do with it.

I'm sorry, but to me, Katrina should have been the big knock on the head for all too slow to catch on to the IRAQ farce. There is no excuse for s-l-o-w-l-y coming around to m-a-y-b-e seeing that oh yeah sure this administration is corrupt. I mean I just saw a story where the White House was sending legal aid for Anna Nicole Smith! Poor thing. They didn't waste any time sending aid where it was most needed on this one did they.

and what we have to do because of the PATRIOT ACT. My husband lives and works in another state. We are not LEGALLY separated. My daughter is in college in the state where I live and my husband pays her tuition and our rent and some expenses. Now, how does the money FLOW between these two states?

It CANNOT be done without a lot of maneuvering our part. We cannot transfer funds from one state account to another state account (same Bank) online. I have my name on the bank account in his state, but cannot put his name on my account in my state. I suppose a married couple cannot live in two different places at the same, although we can each have our own SINGLE account in other states. Anyway, even though this account has my name on it, I cannot transfer funds from our joint account to my account in the state where I live. I have to write a check from that out of state account and physically go to the bank to deposit it into my account. Simply writing checks from that other state would create a major problem for me paying bills (rent, utilities, etc.) here.

We were told that all this is a result of the Patriot Act and trying to monitor TERRORISTS financial transactions across state lines. Given the fact that the states of Florida and New York are involved in our situation, I am sure somebody has us on their watch list.

Etrade has online checking, online banking and they reimburse you for your atm costs. (ie. anytime you go to any other bank for cash using your etrade card, if you get charged $3 or whatever, they reimburse you.).

The account is actually out of Virginia, Etrade I believe is out of New Jersey, we live in CA. My husband's pay check gets deposited in it and meanwhile if I want to transfer money to another account in a bank in WA or CA (where I have bank accounts) no problemo.

The problem you described (between the same bank in two different banks is actually a problem that has existed long before the Patriot Act).

Try getting an Etrade account...it will help you alot and you can also save yourself the costs of stamp etc. when sending checks to pay bills. You just go online, type in the address and account (whether its your landlord or whoever) and the check gets sent by Etrades bill pay service in a nice check to them.

Make it your new years resolution and simplify..... :hi:

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With Will Smith and Gene Hackman. If half the stuff the NSA does in it is viable, it'll scare the bejeebers out of you (plus it's a really good action flick!)
Happy New Year all DU'ers!

freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength

national security.

Isn't that why Bush bypassed NSA in the first place--so he'd be FREE to WIDEN his circle of "targets?" Now it's just a question of HOW wide...wide enough to include the Kerry campaign? Everyone in Congress? The UN? The weapons inspectors? The Supreme Court? The MSM?

:eyes:
rocknation