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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 05:41 PM
Original message
Fear Escalates on Foreign Control of Ports

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/18/AR2006021800986.html

Fear Escalates on Foreign Control of Ports

The Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- A New Jersey congressman said Saturday he wants to require that security officials at U.S. ports be American citizens to prevent overseas companies operating shipping facilities here from hiring foreigners in such sensitive positions.

Republican Frank A. LoBiondo, chairman of the Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation Subcommittee, cited "significant" security concerns over a $6.8 billion sale that gives a company in the United Arab Emirates control over operations at six major American ports.

LoBiondo said he wants the new mandatory citizenship requirements approved by Congress and President Bush before state-owned Dubai Ports World completes its pending purchase of London-based Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Co.

...

Caught by surprise over the breadth of concerns expressed in the United States, Dubai Ports World is cautiously organizing its response. The company quietly dispatched advisers to reassure port officials along the East Coast, and its chief operating officer _ internationally respected American shipping executive Edward "Ted" H. Bilkey _ was expected to travel to Washington soon for meetings on Capitol Hill and elsewhere.

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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. The USA has long been under 'foreign' ownership
(or, what, don't you plan to pay your debts?).

Soon to be under 'foreign' management also.

Don't worry. The seriously rich have no need to worry as long as all the (frequently, but not always, British) offshore fiscal paradises are still available to them.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. You're absolutely right...
...thanks to the James Baker-engineered Plaza Accord during the Reagan administration, where the G8 (G7? whatever the count was back then) agreed to rig monetary markets to stabilize the USD against other currencies at a level that ceased crushing American manufacturing (too late, though). The result was a firesale of American hard assets.

Prior to the Reagan adminstration, the U.S. owned 3.4x more of the rest of the world than the world owned of us; after Reagan, the rest of the world owned 0.7x more of us than we of them. That's a sea change of immense proportion. We've never recovered from that tsunami.

(Source: Kevin Phillips, Boiling Point)
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
48. while we are at it....
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 05:10 AM by radfringe
let's outsource:

--- Homeland Security to Al-Qeada
--- FEMA to India
--- Social Security to China
--- Food Stamp program to North Korea
--- Education System to Iran
--- Air Control Traffic system to Russia
--- Agriculture Department to Palestine
--- Defense Department to Syria
--- Department of Energy to Saudi Arabia

Meanwhile - any bidders for our intelligence departments? Rarely used, just misused alot ----

:sarcasm:

better yet - just impeach the bushies!


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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #48
53. let's also
turn over border security to Mexico
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
88. yes, and the bills are coming due fast & furious
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. NO foreign entity should control US ports. It's insane.
The fact that the company is currently owned by British nationals is NOT a comfort to me. How long has port security been outsourced to other nations?
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. outsourcing security to even AMERICAN companies is insane
that's the job of the GOVERNMENT!

who is in favor of risking our public security for a possible private profit??
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. It just shows that the neo-cons don't really give a damn about true
homeland security. That phrase is just a ruse to militarize the US and squelch dissent.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. No, it's a ruse...
...to divert huge tax-and-debt-based cash flows away from schools and decent housing and medical care and the quality of life of the general citizenry and into the pockets of favored companies, Bush's Base, ya' know. (Al Qaeda means "the base", I believe -- what irony that video where Bush calls the fact cats paying $1,000 a plate his "base"!)

All the rest of it?

Really
the police try to protect
the banks - and everything else
is secondary
-- D.A. Levy, SUBURBAN MONASTERY DEATH POEM
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
77. Al Quaeda= the base = Bush's Base! LOL You nailed it!
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
55. I think Katrina proved that.
It took a horrible hurricane to make us see it, but I think the majority now don't have the "safe" feeling they had when they voted for Bush in 04.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. "outsourcing security to even AMERICAN companies is insane"
right on the money. Our borders and coast should be protected by our troops and seaman. The military should be used for DEFENSE. Bring the troops home.
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NobleCynic Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. Nationalize port security?
Not a bad idea, but it's not enough. We need to inspect and confirm the manifest for all cargo containers. Unfortunately the shipping lobby has blocked all said attempts.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
41. Could not agree more.
They are treating the United States like they are corporate raiders. Selling off our assets.
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freefall Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
49. Halliburton, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and apparently a large portion
of the US citizenry who may now be finally waking to what's going on. Hopefully, it isn't too late.

Peace

freefall
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
54. Most Libertarians Would Agree
I mean, you have Libertarians who don't think we should have any environmental regulation, any social security, any labor regulations, etc. Many Libertarians take a very isolationist approach and grumble about us being in Iraq.

But, most Libertarians would agree that however limited the role of government should be, it does have a responsibility to secure our borders.

As for who is in favor of risking security for profit, the answer is obvious, Republicans. Some of them will do anything for profit.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
85. I agree. It's a government job
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President Kerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
87. Security is not the same as operations, nor should it be.
Security will still be under the purview of the US government. Airports are run by private companies (both foreign and domestic, some but not all, government-owned), but security oversight is always federal on some level. Ports are no different.
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. It is beyond insanity. It's downright Bizarro World!
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Nor is it a comfort to me
Isn't it strange that nobody knew our ports were foreign-controled until this came up?
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Brothaman2k Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
68. I just heard a great quote on CNN
It was something to the effect that if the Bush admin. has so much faith in this Dubai company to provide security, maybe we should consider outsourcing the Secret Service jobs to them. Let's see how confident he is in his decision then.

LOL

I love it! Better yet, let's do that and send W on a big game hunting expedition with his buddy Dick.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Caught by surprise "---what the heck?
Edited on Sat Feb-18-06 06:23 PM by rodeodance




....Caught by surprise over the breadth of concerns expressed in the United States, Dubai Ports World is cautiously organizing its response. The company quietly dispatched advisers to reassure port officials along the East Coast, and its chief operating officer _ internationally respected American shipping executive Edward "Ted" H. Bilkey _ was expected to travel to Washington soon for meetings on Capitol Hill and elsewhere.
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ecoalex Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. What about selling our National Forests, Parks? Liquadating America
Tax Cuts.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
71. Possibly because none of the other countries are objecting
Edited on Mon Feb-20-06 06:37 AM by muriel_volestrangler
The deal covers about 18 countries. US politicians seem to be the only ones complaining.

Countries in which P&O operates port facilities:

http://portal.pohub.com/portal/page?_pageid=36,1,36_31151:36_32105&_dad=pogprtl&_schema=POGPRTL
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. Most other countries haven't given
the world, let alone the Arab world, as much reason to really hate them as we have.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
79. Same MO different disaster...

Condi...Who would have thought that planes would be driven into the Twin Towers..
* Cabal...Theres no way that we could have known the levees would breach...

And now...Caught by surprise over handing our ports over to a terrorist supporting country.


Who would have thought that a two year old with a fork would stick it into an electrical outlet? :sarcasm:

How much clearer does it have to be for Americans to get outraged!! What is it going to take? :banghead:
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #79
83. good points, MadMaddie!
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. DEMs need to captialize, fear monger on this issue....
Keep it in the news......

This, and illegal immigration, can be the downfall of the Republicans IF Democrats play their cards right.
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. fearmonger, wtf, its a real fucking problem giving al quada
an easy front to infiltrate our ports. You'd have to be a moron not to see that be you dem, rep, or libert.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
40. DREAM ON!
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 03:29 AM by BeHereNow
The people behind all of this own
the dems AND the repukes.
STOP looking for the "democratic" party
to save you.
They don't exist any more than the "republican" party.
The multi national corporations are controlling
this country and they could give a rat's ass
about "Democrats" or "Republicans."
Furthermore, they are counting on you to still
believe such a government structure still
exists in Amerikkka.
It DOESN'T.
Period.
Sorry to rant, but WHEN the hell
are people going to figure this fact out???
WE ARE ON OUR OWN PEOPLE.
WE are being destroyed by the multi-nationals
JUST as the rest of the world has been for
decades.
It's not personal- it's business.
WHY do Americans continue to delude themselves
that they are somehow "special" and immune
to what these corporations have been doing
to the rest of the world for nearly a century?
WAKE UP-
They don't give a crap about you anymore
than the people in the third world countries.
As a matter of fact- "third world" is exactly the
plan they have for YOU.
It is happening right before our collective
eyes and yet people are still
clinging to the delusion that
some multi national placed Congressman
or Senator is going to "Save them."
They are not.
No help is on the way.

BHN
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Let me guess: you voted Green because they're both the same.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. AS IF voting would actually change ANYTHING???
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 04:32 AM by BeHereNow
Hello?
I have voted democratic for the last twenty years.
AS IF it would matter at this point WHO is
elected in EITHER party?
Did you happen to seen the numbers
as far as the latest PATRIOT ACT vote?
96 to a paltry THREE?
HELLO?
HELLO?
HELLO?
What does this tell YOU?
BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Not to mention the "touchscreen" voting machinations...
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 04:33 AM by BeHereNow
I live in California.
We are traditionally a "democratic" state.
Blue, if you must.
Arnold is now our Governator- this
after being endorsed by George Schultz-
Was there EVER a question, from THAT point on,
as to whether he would be s-elected?
Who do YOU think is running this show?
I'd love to know.
BHN
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freefall Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. C'mon. If you can't see that he's got a point you have blinders on.
If we can't move the Democrats away from their support of war and other people un-friendly policies this November, I may still vote for them but I will be holding my nose. We need more like Russ Feingold and fewer like Harry Reid. More like Carl Sheeler (RI Senate candidate who has called for impeachment.) and fewer like Joe Lieberman.

Peace,

freefall
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maryallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #40
56. Ding! Ding! Ding!
You've got it, BeHereNow.
Truer words were never spoken.
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Brothaman2k Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
67. Time to get on the ball...
Agreed, Dems need to seriously need to get on the ball on getting this out there. How in the world could Reps continue to run on national security if they're so willing to sell it out for conveniences sake?

I will say however, before we start banging the drum, there needs to be a cohesive, well thought out and well crafted plan on what the alternative is. We have to start turning back the criticism that Dems have all the complaints and none of answers.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. The "plan" would be this. Don't sell the ports to the UAE or any other
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 07:32 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
country from which the 9/11 hijackers came. Nor to any country from which funds for said attacks were sent.

MKJ

edited to add...welcome to DU. :hi: MKJ
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. I do not much care for this Repug style fear!



LoBiondo said he wants the new mandatory citizenship requirements approved by Congress and President Bush before state-owned Dubai Ports World completes its pending purchase of London-based Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Co.
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. al quada money and personel flow through the UAE; it would just be
too damn easy for them to get affiliated with this UAE owned company, and then infiltrate the ports that the UAE company is operating. I'll reserve judgment about a bar of all foriegners, but any state owned company where Al quada has a presence in that state, no fucking way, i don't want them operating our ports.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. Related article: UAE points to its anti-terror role in US port row
Sunday, February 19, 2006

UAE points to its anti-terror role in US port row

DUBAI: The United Arab Emirates said on Friday it was a close ally of the US in its war on terrorism, after US senators opposed a UAE firm’s takeover of a company that operates several American ports over security concerns. Two US Democratic senators have said they will introduce legislation to block Dubai Ports World from buying P&O and gaining control over the management of US ports because of national security concerns. “I understand the debate in the US on the issue of P&O and Dubai Ports but we would like to emphasise that we have been a strong ally of the US in combating terrorism and will remain so,” UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahayan told Reuters. “We are pleased with our relationship with the United States and we are looking forward to the forthcoming meeting between the (Gulf Arab) foreign ministers and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in Abu Dhabi next week and to further enhancing these relations,” he said. P&O, which Dubai Ports World plans to buy for $6.8 billion, is already foreign-owned, by the British, but the concern is that the purchaser is backed by the United Arab Emirates government. US officials have said the UAE has been a solid and cooperative partner in the fight against terrorism, and have praised it for steps to protect its booming financial sector against abuse by terrorism financiers. reuters
(snip/)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\02\19\story_19-2-2006_pg4_4
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Sale of operation of 6 of the US ports to a foreign company is out of the
Edited on Sat Feb-18-06 07:14 PM by xiamiam
question...period...we do not approve...everyone I mention this too is dumbfounded...it is absurd...it is beyond beyond..they can go fffff.&*&*& themselves...
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Soon Bush will be handing them the keys to the WH
oh I forget, he already has.

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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Okay, folks, maybe I'm wrong but
I think what is happening is that Dubai Ports World is buying Peninsular & Oriental Steam Navigation, which it appears had the contract originally. That means we have had foreign operators, especially at container ports for quite a while. The bad thing is that the new operator has some issues that we think are suspect--for good reason. What I can't figure out is why P & O went down. They appeared to be doing okay.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
51. How do you know P&O was "doing OK"? (n/t)
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
72. Dubai Ports World offered a lot of money for P&O
P&O has agreed to the 520 pence a share bid, withdrawing support for a 470p a share offer made by PSA International.

PSA is owned by Temasek Holdings, a Singapore government investment agency which already owns 4.1% of P&O.

Speculation of a bidding war for P&O has been rife since DP World launched its takeover bid last year.

In a statement P&O said the latest, improved offer from DP World represented a 71.3% premium of its closing price on 27 October - the last day before market rumours of a possible bid for the firm emerged.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4652628.stm


They valued it at a lot more than the market did (as did the Singapore company). And P&O hasn't been doing that well:

In August, P&O unveiled a sharp dip in first-half earnings with pre-tax profits dropping to £30.6m from £53.4m during the same period last year.

In an effort to cut costs P&O has sold properties, slashed jobs and cut routes at its loss-making ferry operations as it lost market share to budget airlines.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4392472.stm
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. My "Fuck You" escalates.
Dual birds to the Fear merchants.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. kick
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. Clinton & Menendez have introduced legis. to stop sale...
Edited on Sat Feb-18-06 09:55 PM by annabanana
I hope they get some company...
(now THIS is a legitimate use of homeland security stuff)
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
47. All for show- the sale will close without a whimper.
Count on it.
BHN
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. Firm Sues to Block Foreign Port Takeover
Firm Sues to Block Foreign Port Takeover
Company at Port of Miami Sues to Block Takeover of Shipping Operations by an Arab-Owned Business

By TED BRIDIS

WASHINGTON Feb 18, 2006 (AP)— A company at the Port of Miami has sued to block the takeover of shipping operations there by a state-owned business in the United Arab Emirates. It is the first American courtroom effort to capsize a $6.8 billion sale already embroiled in a national debate over security risks at six major U.S. ports affected by the deal.

The Miami company, a subsidiary of Eller & Company Inc., presently is a business partner with London-based Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Co., which Dubai Ports World purchased last week. In a lawsuit in Florida circuit court, the Miami subsidiary said that under the sale it will become an "involuntary partner" with Dubai's government and it may seek more than $10 million in damages.

The Miami subsidiary, Continental Stevedoring & Terminals Inc., said the sale to Dubai was prohibited under its partnership agreement with the British firm and "may endanger the national security of the United States." It asked a judge to block the takeover and said it does not believe the company, Florida or the U.S. government can ensure Dubai Ports World's compliance with American security rules.
(snip/...)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1636801
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. they know that if the ports get hit with a terrorist attack with the UAE
company operating there they will get sued to death because of the foreseeable risk.
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president4aday Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. What's the big deal?
Whatever xenophobia exists in the UAE has not prevented US companies like EXXON from operating the UAE oil fields for decades.

Anyway, this sounds like lead balloon Rove would conjure up to, as the head line reads, "Fear Escalate...".

Once the resulting anti-arab hysteria has served its purpose of distracting the frightened little people in the-home-of-the-brave
from really dangerous menaces (like no health insurance)that bush has no intention of addressing, this will die an expected and pre-determined political death. Then other "'significant' security concerns" will be rolled out.

The US, like the rest of the world, is an interdependent place. Get over it.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I don't think it is just anti-arab hysteria...
I wouldn't want the Brits protecting our ports, either.
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NobleCynic Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I agree that the issue is overblown
Edited on Sat Feb-18-06 11:45 PM by NobleCynic
Our port security is so terrible currently, that I don't think anything could make it worse, this included. When cargo containers aren't opened and inspected does it matter who loads and unloads them from the ship?

On the other hand in terms of winning in the 2006 elections, this issue is so easy to exploit that the Dem's can't afford not to use it. I love it when Republicans shoot themselves in the foot.

Lastly, fear is a weapon. Anger is a weapon. Hatred is a weapon. It might morally better to not stoop to such measures to win, but at the same time... If appealing to xenophobic tendencies is what it takes to shake up Bush's base and the undecideds...

I understand your concern that fear-mongering of any kind only plays into the Bush administration's interests, but it may be possible to redirect that fear towards Bush.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Yeah, right. Do I hear an echo in here?
Giving away our Nation's sovereignty is no big deal.

Whatever Lord God Bush decrees, right?


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NobleCynic Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. So it's not a popular opinion here (or anywhere)
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 01:11 AM by NobleCynic
Maybe I should rephrase the argument so that you better understand what I'm saying.

Our current security in our nation's ports is pathetic. You can smuggle anything you want into the country with virtually no chance of being detected. The shipping lobby has blocked all efforts to require the inspection of cargo containers. The problem isn't foreign ownership of port authorities. It is private ownership and lax standards in the port authorities. No security isn't better or worse than no security. The dangers of UAE ownership are overblown. They can't be worse than what we already have. Besides, if they ever got caught aiding and abetting terrorists, they would likely lose their entire investment. You don't get the kind of money it takes to make a purchase like this by having bad business sense.

The Bush administration was dumb enough to allow a Dubai company to attempt to purchase these authorities. Their PR blunder can be a good opportunity for the changing of how we handle port security period. People are phobic of Arab ownership of U.S. ports. Channel their xenophobia into reforming the whole port authority, not just prevent Arab ownership.

But looking at it in this manner is cold. It is callous to take political advantage of people's prejudices. It has results certainly, but with moral concerns.

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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. carpe deim
I understand your concern that fear-mongering of any kind only plays into the Bush administration's interests, but it may be possible to redirect that fear towards Bush.

Oh, I have been. I've made a special point to shove this in every repuke's face that I can since the news broke. And does it ever work. I've had republicans who really copped attitudes with me in the past break down, face turn white, and for the first time, admit that I may have been right all along about bush not giving a damn about security.

These are the hardcore repuke Fox watchers and they operate totally from that "they're out to get us" mindset. This issue has them dumbfounded and completely at loose ends.




Cher
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NobleCynic Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Watching the thought process of a Republican break down
is a beautiful thing. Even the tone over at FR is against this overwhelmingly. Only the true free-market fanatics have no reservations about this trade.

Still, no longer trusting Bush is one thing. If you have people turning Dem because of this speak up.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. I do also. I suggest the best solution would be to sell our ports to
the Bin Ladens' and then they can install Osama to oversee the operation. At least, we'd then know where Osama was. (Heads explode.) :evilgrin:
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #27
84. overblown
I can't help but think about the segment of Fahrenheit 9/11 concerning the Oregon coast.

How the entire state of Oregon might have as few as 7 state troopers on duty in the whole state, and NO ONE whatsoever watching its hundreds of miles of coastline.

Why all the frenzy about port security being handled by the wrong people when there are large chunks of US coastline going absolutely unguarded by anyone?

Also-- any time I see Bill F-ing Frist railing against the President, I know instinctively that he was instructed to do so.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. Umm. UAE was a major finaceer of the 9/11 terrorists.
Our ports.. are basically our borders. Oil fields are just a location inside a country. A port in a PORT OF ENTRY... it makes a HUGE difference. Has nothing to do with "anti-arab" hsyteria. You're new here.. so I can understand that you don't really know what's what on DU. But this is a place where you'll find you'll find frightened little sheeple, as you seem to implicate. "Get over it". Nice way to start out here...

People with your line of thinking are why Democrats are constantly being accused on being soft on security, when in fact, it's the republicans who are soft. We're the ones calling bullshit on them. Try not to get confused.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. the UAE did not finance the terrorists
read your sources carefully for f$%^ sake...

Some people associated with 9/11 had bank account in the UAE. Some of these same people also had account in Germany, Europe, Pakistand and the US!!!!
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
66. Wow, that's quite some SPIN you have their. To say "some people"
"associated with 9/11 had bank account in the UAE" is like saying, "some people involved with the Oklahoma City bombing rented Ryder trucks".

WHAT IS YOUR POINT? So you point out one minor fact as if it's the ENTIRE story thus negating ALL other relevant points you are attempting to refute? :spray:

Your critical thinking skills need to be flexed a little more often if you ever expect them to get stronger. Nice try. :rofl:
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president4aday Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #34
52. "Oil fields are just a location inside a country." Wrong.
The UAE oilfields (or rather more accurately...US run and controlled oilfields in the UAE) are the livelihood of every citizen of that country. Far more vital than any port, here, or anywhere else.

Do you really think the UAE would be so stupid to use their management of the ports against us when they are vastly more vulnerable to us than we are to them? FYI ... we have a Navy in their waters..... they don't have any in ours.

Hope you're not frightened any more.

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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #52
65. Dude, in case you haven't heard, the UAE was involved in 9/11, so
your argument that the UAE can not be involved in future terrorist activity for fear of hurting their business relationships with the U.S. holds not one drop of water.

You need to brush up on past/current events:
http://cooperativeresearch.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=united+arab+emirates&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #52
78. If you notice...
the UAE and Saudi Arabia didn't even get a slap on the wrist after 9/11, Buscho deftly turned American anger on Iraq.

Following the same logic, if there's a LIHOP in a port under UAE management Buscho will prob use it to justify an attack on Iran.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
58. I Don't Want ANY Foreign Nation....
especially an oil nation protecting our ports.... protecting my ASS!

Jesus H Christ if ya can't see any problem there you are brain dead.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
30. Here is another one
handed to the Democratic party. They should all join in with Senators Clinton and Mendenez and call a press copnference and talk about this stupid idea by the president.... Bush believes that even if a law was passed by congress that it would be veto proof....So Dems here again you are handed a chance to ram the Security of America down the throat of the one that always talks about how great a damn job he is doing in protecting America and Americans.... Get off your asses congressmen and woman, and raise hell with this freebie......
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emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
35. this is what happens when government is sold to the lowest bidder
or maybe in this case the bidder with the most inside pull. My cynical nature assures that no surprise is elucidated by this story. Profit is profit after all. Makes little diference any longer what country one was born in, only the dollars one is willing to send the way of the crooks who run this rude ship of state. Sort of reminds me of jesus for sale style churches. Got money? You got the job.
George Bushit's idea of a government makes me puke. Fact is gwbushits picture makes me puke. Fucker.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
38. But JIMMY CARTER GAVE AWAY THE PANAMA CANAL!!!!
They have been screaming this for years. Now THEY are giving away a lot more than the Panama Canal.
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DeltaLady Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
39. A short scenario
A man breaks into your house and tries to murder you; he escapes but when discussing the matter with police you are shown a lineup, where you identify the culprit. He is taken to jail.

The following week, you find out that this individual is somehow out on bond. You are justifiably paranoid and wonder how this could have happened.

As the trial date approaches, you look forward to seeing this man incarcerated for a very long time. Come the trial date, he's a no show.

The bondsmen then seizes the assets put up as collateral by friends of the accused. A bounty hunter is employed, but his efforts to track the suspect are fruitless.

Still scared and angry, you approach the "friends" of the man who tried to kill you. They tell you they had no idea the man would jump bail. You don't know whether they are sincere or not and hire a PI to see what he can turn up. He finds that wire transfers of funds have been sent hither and yon in what appears to be a constant supply of money to someone who is on the run. You go back to the police and they refuse to consider this evidence.

Now the question is, would you trust the friends of this man?

This has nothing to do with xenophobia and everything to do with trust. The american people have flat out been given reasons not to trust in the behavior of UAE.
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PhilipShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
43. 12/07/1941 - Japan Bombs Pearl Harbor--12/08/1941 Japan Buys Pearl Harbor
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 04:41 AM
Response to Original message
46. If the Clinton Administration permitted this (just imagine)...
At least Michael Savage is being consistent in his outrage.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
57. 'Bush wrong foot' - just like appointing a horse society chief for FEMA
now this and all the Iran contra super figures
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Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
59. You would think George Bush would at least have known
that the briinging in of foreign generals was what killed Rome.
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
60. kick
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PhilipShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
61. CNN/AP--Congressman: Port deal lacks sufficient security
CNN
Congressman: Port deal lacks sufficient security
Associated Press
Feb. 19, 2006

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/19/port.security.ap/

(AP) U.S. terms for approving an Arab company's takeover of operations at six major American ports are insufficient to guard against terrorist infiltration, the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee said Sunday.

"I'm aware of the conditions and they relate entirely to how the company carries out its procedures, but it doesn't go to who they hire, or how they hire people," Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., told The Associated Press.
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Comadreja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
62. Is this a union-busting gambit ?
Dockworkers are some of the strongest unions left.

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HiSee Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
63. Is Robert C. Bush Jr. related to George Bush?
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 04:23 PM by HiSee
Is this connected to the purchase by DPworld?

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/16/ldt.01.html
United Arab Emirates firms are interested, by the way, in more than our ports. Tonight, a media investment firm based in the United Arab Emirates has taken a sizable stake in Time Warner. Time Warner owns this network.

We don't suggest that there is any correlation between our reporting and the investment firm's interest in Time Warner, but we did think it was notable. The firm is called Istithmar, it has bought a 2.4 percent stake in Time Warner, the parent company, as I said, of this network. The company now has control of more than 100 million Time Warner shares.



Istithmar Company Officers - Zawya.com Company Directory
Board of Directors Name Position SULTAN AHMED BIN SULAYEM Chairman Hamed Kazim ... Chief Investments Officer Peter Jodlowski Chief Financial Officer ROBERT C BUSH JR ...
www.zawya.com/cm/officers.cfm/cid1002333

SULTAN AHMED BIN SULAYEM is the exuctive director of DPWorld.

Istithmar of the UAE closes on the $705 million acquisition of 230 Park Avenue in Manhattan in New York City

Thursday, 10 November 2005
Istithmar PJSC, a leading investment house based in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), focusing on private equity, real estate and alternative investments, has announced today that it has closed on the acquisition of another internationally recognized landmark property, 230 Park Avenue (the Helmsley Building) in Manhattan. The property was purchased for $705 million from 230 Park Avenue Investors, LLC, of which Robert M. Bass of Fort Worth, Texas is a lead investor. The purchase of the New York City trophy property follows on the heels of Istithmar’s acquisition of London, the UK’s One Trafalgar Square last month.
230 Park Avenue is a 34-story gold-domed office tower, in excess of 1.2 million square feet straddling Park Avenue at 45th Street. Built in 1929, 230 Park Avenue is one of two buildings that combine a direct connection to Grand Central Terminal with the prestige of a Park Avenue address.
Istithmar’s Executive Chairman SULTAN AHMED BIN SULAYEM commented, “We believe 230 Park Avenue is an irreplaceable prime property in the world’s largest real estate market. This particular investment represents the perfect fit for us as we continue to add outstanding assets to our expanding international real estate portfolio.”
“The Jewel of Park Avenue,” as it is often referred to, is surrounded by many of New York’s finest hotels, restaurants and social clubs. Many multinational corporations have also made Park Avenue the hub of their global operations. 230 Park Avenue is a particularly attractive corporate location as evidenced by its impressive roster of tenants including ING Baring, Tokio Marine, HSH Nordbank, Bank of Argentina, and PB Capital.
Financing for the acquisition of 230 Park Avenue is being provided by Credit Suisse First Boston. Istithmar is being advised on the transaction by Island Capital, a real estate focused firm headed by Andrew L. Farkas.

http://users.javanet.com/u/s/usrom/Countries/uae.htm
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
64. Terrorist Ownership Society!!!
Yeah for Bush!:nuke: :scared: :nuke:
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yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
70. this 'did it' for the lone bushie at my work

she said that because of this issue she's 'done' w/ him. this woman relied on her husband to tell her how to think all these years; hopefully, she will now begin to see the light.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
74. heh heh hed simpletons at work! Or is this creative evil in plain sight?
What do longshoremen think of this sale? Heh heh heh... Think they will put up with this shit? Think I'll go hire on... oh.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
75. I say we take up a collection and buy these ports ourselves!
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VirginiaDem Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
76. Big political blunder by Bush
That's what this is. Not some kind of shady, tentacled conspiracy--he's got some friends and he's rewarding them. Something like that. And now that it's been blaring across the MSM, right-wing radio, left-wing blogs, and throughout both halls of Congress, across the aisles, the Bushies have to figure out how they're going to save face and they've got few options given Bush's tendencies. Bush is above all else stubborn. He cannot afford to be stubborn here but he just can't help himself.

Polls consistently show that the only issue Dems lose out to Repubs on is security/terror. And for all of you saying the Dems need to show some spine and jump on this, well, open up a newspaper (or click on a few more links). Everybody and their mother is speaking out because they can't afford not to--it's an easy issue politically. Congress will not let this happen--Republicans absolutely cannot afford to back the president on this and Dems have no reason to. This is going to get very embarrassing for the administration very soon.

Expect a significant drop in Bush's polling numbers soon if he doesn't reverse himself (which of course he won't).

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HiSee Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
80. Is this all connected?
Who is making big money on this deal$WWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

The other day on CNN.com Lou Dobbs commented that a company from Dubai had bought shares in Time Warner. That company is called Istithmar.

-The Chairman of the board of Istithmar is Sultan Ahmed Bin Salayem he is also the exutive board director for DPWorld. A man named Robert C. Bush is also an officer for Istithmar.-

Istithmar Company Officers - Zawya.com Company DirectoryIstithmar officers and managers. ... Robert C Bush Jr, Senior Vice President, Investments. Osman Qureshi, Senior Vice President, Investments ...
www.zawya.com/cm/officers.cfm/cid100233....

http://www.usrom.com/Countries/uae.htm
Istithmar PJSC, a leading investment house based in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), focusing on private equity, real estate and alternative investments, has announced today that it has closed on the acquisition of another internationally recognized landmark property, 230 Park Avenue (the Helmsley Building) in Manhattan. The property was purchased for $705 million from 230 Park Avenue Investors, LLC, of which Robert M. Bass of Fort Worth, Texas is a lead investor. The purchase of the New York City trophy property follows on the heels of Istithmar’s acquisition of London, the UK’s One Trafalgar Square last month.
230 Park Avenue is a 34-story gold-domed office tower, in excess of 1.2 million square feet straddling Park Avenue at 45th Street. Built in 1929, 230 Park Avenue is one of two buildings that combine a direct connection to Grand Central Terminal with the prestige of a Park Avenue address.
Istithmar’s Executive Chairman Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem commented, “We believe 230 Park Avenue is an irreplaceable prime property in the world’s largest real estate market. This particular investment represents the perfect fit for us as we continue to add outstanding assets to our expanding international real estate portfolio.”
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
81. maybe Poppy was hoping to have his UAE friends look the other way ...
... the Carlyle Group bought CSX shipping business in 2002, the nation's largest ocean transport company ... renamed Horizon Lines ... which operates between the continental United States and Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico ...

CSX-Chair and CEO John Snow was made as Treasury Secretary in December 2002



just conjecturing and what-if'ing out loud ... the deals are always win-win on multiple fronts ... the country is being run by a criminal syndicate ...

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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. I see Carlyle has sold CSX/Horizon ...

May 24, 2004
#2004-28
The Carlyle Group Announces Sale of Horizon Lines to Castle Harlan

Washington, DC – Global private equity firm The Carlyle Group today announced that it has entered into a definitive agreement to sell Horizon Lines, the nation’s leading Jones Act container shipping company, to private equity firm Castle Harlan for a purchase price of $650 million. Carlyle acquired Horizon Lines, formerly known as CSX Lines, from CSX Corp. in a recapitalization transaction, which was completed in February 2003.


thanks to wordpix at today's Stock Market Watch
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2124330#2125389

also, for this link


Carlyle, KKR buyout funds secure Dubai's support

Carlyle Group and Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, which between them raised more than US$15 billion (HK$117 billion) for new buyout funds this year, are getting backing from Dubai.

Friday, November 18, 2005

Carlyle Group and Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, which between them raised more than US$15 billion (HK$117 billion) for new buyout funds this year, are getting backing from Dubai.
Dubai International Capital, a government-backed buyout fund set up in October last year, invested in the US$8 billion fund Carlyle raised in March and in Kohlberg Kravis Roberts' 4.5 billion euro (HK$40.8 billion) European takeover fund, chief executive Sameer al- Ansari said Wednesday. The fund also invests in Asia through firms such as Newbridge Capital.

~snip~

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=10&art_id=5889&sid=5533595&con_type=1&d_str=20051118

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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
82. I would only hope that this would "SLAP" many Amerikan's a awake
however, I know that the sheeply are sound asleep!
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