AC-130 Gunships Returning to Iraq

so called targeted neighborhoods.....Have they not learned that the world is turning against the US?

They don't give a flying f*ck.

:grr:

Staging for Iran, while you continue to bomb the shit out of the Iraqi people on a daily basis.

after ChimpCo bombs I-ranian nucular facilities....

are merely going to kill so many people and destroy the rest of us all.

:(

hmph....sounds like we are going down the same historical path.....

The DU member, that is.

Its IRAQ-NAM


IRAQ-NAM, is a ruthless, vicious place that asks No Quarter and Gives None.

It is ruled by the Chimpanzee and Cheney Caesar, in the year of Our Lord Two thousand Six A.D.

Death here rides a Pale Horse.

Death claims in no particular order, the Innocent, the Guilty, the Unlucky and the Careless.

You never disappoint. ;)

This is why I want a DU Academy Awards! You would be in the running with those great pics!

Mac

Looks like they are worried about more, than just a few guys running around with RPGs.

It costs a lot to run a Spectre operation.

The maintenance alone will cost a fortune.

These ships are big and slow.

And in the gulf war they were not invincible.

AC-130E/H

* 69-6567 Ghostrider
o Lost to a SAM near the border town of Khafji 50 miles south of Kuwait City 31 Jan. 1991. Callsign Spirit 03.
+ KIA were:
+ Maj Paul Weaver - Pilot
+ Capt T.Cliff Bland - Co-Pilot
+ Capt Dixon Walters - Electronic Warfare Officer
+ Capt Arthur Galvan - Fire Control Officer
+ Capt William Grimm - Navigator
+ SMSgt James May - Gunner
+ SMSgt Paul Buege - Sensor Operator
+ TSgt John Oelschlager - Gunner
+ TSgt Robert Hodges - Gunner
+ SSgt Damon Kanuha - Flight Engineer
+ SSgt John Blessinger - Sensor Operator
+ SSgt Timothy Harrison - Gunner
+ SSgt Mark Schmauss - Illuminator Operator
+ Sgt Barry Clark - Gunner

including doing nothing.

and


the only easy day was yesterday.

:cry:

I saw pictures of both what these planes look like and what they can do....

They ain't sending them there for show....My guess is that they are not only going to be stepping up Iraq-Nam (just like they did in Vietnam when they should have been pulling out) but they are getting ready to take on Iran too....

Ugh...I feel sick.... :puke:

As I replied to Capt Mac.

These planes are super expensive to maintain.

They are also easy targets

has been and will continue to be artillery. Short of nuclear weapons of course.

The gunship has limited use.

can do more indiscriminate carnage than you can imagine. We will annihilate both sides of a civil war struggle or battle to deter future engagements. This is an unbelievable weapon.

compared to these gunships...

Puff the Magic Dragon was an AC-47 (DC 3) that was loaded with just lights and three Gatling guns. These AC-130's have 40mm cannon (40mm Bofors) and 105mm cannon along with the machine guns. Indiscriminate carnage in spades.

The automated system used to aim tracks the plane's travel, pitch, roll, airspeed, even wind changes, while concentrating the weapons at the same spot.
But the guns are so fast and so powerful, that their own recoil causes the spray of ammo to wipe out a large area around the target point.
This is a major killing machine.

Should we start to use these planes in Iraq, I will personally start up a crusade to hold an anti-war march on DC.

I watched both the AC-47s (Puff) and AC-130s (Specter) work out on the Ho Chi Mihn trail at night. It looks like liquid fire pouring out of the gun-ports.

your vantage point over being on the ground when they fired up those agents of death. You know what I mean, Vern?

A rain of fire and death on the ground. And then there were the B-52 Arc-light saturation bombing runs. I watched those, too. And I still see them when I close my eyes at night.


Bomb craters in Laos (near Tchepone) from B-52 strikes (photo by DemoTex)

Each small dot is a crater 100 feet or more wide.

Tchepone was a mother fucker. Just read any account of Lam Son 719


Lam Son 719 was a major operation of the Army of the Republic of South Vietnam, ARVN, into Laos from 30 Jan - 24 Mar 1971. U.S. provided all of the aviation assets for this operation. A/101 AHB "Comancheros" were one of the aviation units in this operation, along with being the sole 101st Airborne aviation unit supporting the Special Operations Group in I Corp during the month of February 1971.



The objective of Lam Son 719 was to disrupt an ongoing North Vietnamese Army supply buildup at Tchepone, Laos. American Helicopter Units supported and provided all transportation of ARVN troops/supplies into and out of Laos during this operation. The US Helicopter Crewman went against the heaviest anti-aircraft barrage incurred in the War.


http://www.a101avn.org/LamSon719.html


http://orbat.com/site/history/historical/usa/lamson719.html

My dad's old unit was Spectre.

Never was I gladder he wasn't a gunner than when I watched The Panama Deception.

Spell-check screwed me up.

# 55-0044 Prometheus

* # 3 & 4 props shot off Dec.1971.
* Shot down by SA-2 SAM over Tchepone Laos 28 Mar. 1972
KIA
o Maj. Harry Brauner
o Maj. Irving Ramsower
o Maj. Howard Stephenson
o Capt. Richard Castillo
o Capt. Richard Halpin
o Capt. Curtis Miller
o Capt. Charles Wanzell, III
o Capt. Barclay Young
o SSgt. James Caniford
o SSgt. Merlyn Paulson
o SSgt. Edward Pearce
o SSgt. Edward Smith, Jr.
o Sgt. William Todd
o A1C. Robert Simmons

Since the AC-130H didn't enter service until 1972 I was wondering if they actually saw service in VietNam. I had thought that the AC-47s were what was used there.

Personally, I think their redeployment is defensive in nature, and ties in with the warning about a pending attack.

I think the military may be getting nervous about how exposed their position is, and these gunships would be a bit of an equalizer.

Back when the war first started..."Mother of all bombs"

God help you if the Spectre comes around. How many innocent people will die?

Can you lob 105mm rounds into an urban environment and not destroy innocent lives?


Fuck.

they only take out 3 or 4 houses at a time instead of a city block.

over the jungles of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.

I have tapes of the missions. They are chilling.

Period. We are just such a hegemonic bastard of a county that we don't normally answer questions like yours.

I raise your FUCK. FUCK!

Regardless of what they tell us; "Iraq is just fine" or "Iraq is not sliding into civil war".

Things are deteriorating. Fast, it seems.

.
.
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The Silent Genocide from America

/snip/

I know we are part of the invisible genocide brought on us by America, a silence death from which I know we will not escape." (Jooma Khan of Laghman province, March 2003)

/snip/

"I realized this slow, yet certain death, when I saw blood in my urine and developed severe pain in my kidneys along with breathing problems I never had before. Many of my family members started to complain from confusion and the pregnant women miscarried their babies while others gave birth to disabled infants" (Akbar Khan from Paktika province, February 2003)

The perpetuation of the perpetual death in Afghanistan continues with the passage of each day. Every day, people see the silent death striking their families and friends, hopeless and terrified at the sight of the next funeral
_________________________________________________________________

From another source

As a countrywide uprising sweeps Iraq, the Bush
administration and the Pentagon are responding with
unprecedented violence directed against the Iraqi
people, and threatening to raise the number of U.S.
troops. Casualties on both sides have soared. The
Pentagon is using super-lethal AC-130 gunships -
firing depleted uranium bullets - against the civilian
population.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/04/1676407.php
________________________________________________________________

Genocide from the USA will continue long after Bush is dead and buried

That's a "Mission Accomplished" for sure from the PNACers point of view

Gawd Help America . . .

(sigh)

The 20mm cannon on that aircraft fires 20mm HE. It does not have an anti tank role. 20mm kills people better. The 20mm weapon is not the primary system anyway.

The 40MM cannon is accurate enough to hit a person from the air. There is video of this on the web.

The 20 is useful for exposed troops or light vehicles, or for cover fire. To my recollection the Army never used a 20mm du round. The only one built for that weapon was used by the navy, and has been discontinued.

I would bet we used more DU in Europe against Serbian targets in a week than we have ever used in Afghanistan.

Why, the talibs had little or no mechanized armor, and DU is useless to shoot at people. Both the 20mm, the 25mm bushmaster on the bradley, and the 30mm used on the a-10 can be equipped to fire HE shells.

The pentagon has ordered 38 million dollars worth
of 120mm DU rounds.

120mm are huge shells. Six times the size of a fifty caliber.

AC-130H Spectre carries two 20mm Vulcan multi-barrel cannons, and the AC-130U Spooky carries one 25mm GAU-12 muti-barrel. Both models carry a 40mm and a 105mm rapid-fire cannon as heavy armament.

40mm Bofors and 105mm cannon.

The M102 105mm Cannon was derived from the Army field artillery M1A1 howitzer and was modified to be fired from the left rear side door of the AC-130 gunship aircraft. To accomodate this cannon, one of the side-firing 40mm guns was removed from the aircraft and replaced by the radome that formerly had been installed in the door cavity. That change provided enough space for the 105mm gun to be mounted in the doorway in place of the radome. The gun was used extensively beginning with the Vietnam War.

Who's to say we didn't also order DU rounds for the 105mm?

The M1A1 105mm Howitzer of WWII fame was renamed the M101A1 in 1964 when the Department of Defense Ordered All of the Services to use the Same Model Numbers for the same Weapon. This required some items to be given new model Numbers, for prior to 1964 the Navy/Marines had one Model Number for a item while the the Army/Air Force had another. For example the Douglas DC-3 was known to the British as a "Dakota" but the the Army/Air Force as a C-47. but to the Navy and Marines as a R4D. In 1964 all Military versions were given the Model Number C-47.

In the Case of the 105mm Howitzer the WWI Era M1A1 was given the New Model Number M101A1. At the same time the light weight M102 was coming into service (the M102 can fire a Charge 8 105 mm Round while the M101A1 can only fire up to Charge 7, but the M102 having an Aluminum box tail was on 1.5 tones compared to the 2.5 tons of the M101A1, while the M102 was Lighter the M101A1 could last longer in the Field, thus even today the Marines keep M101A1 in storage for use when they can't take their 155mm Howitzers with them).

As to its use in the AC-130, I Suspect (but do not know) that it only fires Charge 1. When I trained on a M102 during basic we were told we only had to pin down two of the holes in the Base plate EXCEPT if we were firing Charge 8, then ALL of the pins had to be hammered into the ground (The M102 had under its breach a hydraulic jack that you jacked down to im-placed the weapon. In that base were holes that we took two foot long 10 inch circumference stakes and with a Sledge hammered into those holes and into the ground. I mention this for I doubt the M102 on the AC-130 is using anything more than Charge 1 (and really does not have to, to get the explosive round onto the target, you lose range but the round is coming from above).

One last comment, the Ac-130 is NOT used by itself, it is always controlled by Ground based forward observers. For example in El Salvador, the AC-130 would be called in along with a jet flying even higher (The Jet was based on a Commercial jet and loaded with additional electronic gear). The Jet was able to get messages from the Forward observers even when the AC-130 was flying low and direct radio communication would have been impossible do to the terrain between the Forward Observers and the Ac-130.

Now since the 1980s the Ac-130 has had a huge increase in electronics itself. Furthermore you now have GPS system available AND direct satellite phones that are superior to what was available in the 1980s. Thus I suspect the AC-130 no longer needs the top flying jet, thus only needs the Forward Observers on the ground to tell it what to shoot.

In Vietnam the AC-47 were effective till the North Vietnamese started to bring in Russian 50 caliber guns which could out range the 7.62 Gatling in the AC-47s. Do to the introduction of these weapons in the picture it was decided the next generation of Gunships would have longer range 20mm Gatling guns and 40mm Cannons (and later brought in the 105 mm for even longer range). Against peasants moving at night armed with only AK-47s, this was effective. Even if reinforced with 7.62 mm Machine gun the Ac-130s were still effective, but against an enemy with 50 caliber (12.7mm) machine guns backed up with 23mm Anti-Aircraft cannons and Man Portable Anti-Aircraft Missiles the AC130 started to become a very Marginal Weapon (and why AC-130s were NOT used extensively in Iraq, through used extensively in Afghanistan).

In the most recent AC-130 the 20mm Gatling's were replaced with 25 mm for even longer range. This seems to be do to the widespread adoption of 23mm Russian Anti-Aircraft Cannon and man portable missiles. This is one of the Problem of these weapons, basically the same caliber weapon on the ground will have greater range than the same weapon flying high in the sky. If the enemy disperses itself (and most will) you have these machine Guns/Cannons/Missiles All over the battlefield. Thus once the AC-130 opens up on a target it can be seen by everyone on the Battlefield even at Night and thus a target for any weapon within range of the AC-130. While the AC-130 can be used against Well Equipped and well trained Soldiers, its effectiveness is not as good as it is against armed Peasants in a Peasant Revolt. In Iraq the Saddam's ex-soldiers have had some training, not as good as US troops but Some training. They put up a decent fight during the Attack on Iraq up until the Fall of Baghdad. Thus they know what to do when faced with something like the AC-130 (Disperse, and open fire if it comes within range of your weapons, and once out of range run like hell).

Against someone like Iran with a still existing Anti-Aircraft capability, the AC-130 is a sitting duck. Thus it is NOT for use in Iran. On the other hand in an attack within Iraq by the Shiites when the US Attackers Iran the AC-130 would be effective. In any attempt to attack the Green Zone from the slums of Baghdad it would be effective. In any other country in the Mid-east that invites the US in the help it suppress its own population the AC-130 would be of use.

My Guess, something big is going to happen soon and it will occur someplace in the Middle East. The AC-130s are NOT part of any Attack on Iran, but can be used elsewhere if problem occur do to any attack on Iran (For example the Shiites try to storm the Green Zone in Baghdad the day the US attacks Iran). You do not move the AC-130s half way around the World for an Exercise, you can do the exercise in the American West. Something is up but I have no idea what, other clues may be forthcoming.

Remember the Russians said come the next New Moon the US will Attack. We just had the last New Moon and the Next new moon is NOT till the end of March. Getting the planes to Iraq may be part of plans to handle the unrest caused by the attack.

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ac-130.htm

and it explains how "Puff" became obsolete:

In Vietnam the AC-47 (Puff) were effective till the North Vietnamese started to bring in Russian 50 caliber guns which could out range the 7.62 Gatling in the AC-47s.

The Countermeasures equipment on the "Spectre" appears extensive and impressive to this dumb old Army Engineer draftee who was, at best, was handy with a shovel and M-16A1, and drove an M151A1 Mine Detector Mutt before they invented armor.

and both Spooky and Puff were an awesome sight to behold when in action. I watched the red lines in the sky on more occasions than I wish to remember.

The Type 54 is a Chinese copy of the Soviet M36/46 AAMG. The weapon was type classified in 1954 and was equipped by the PLA in a huge number. Most of Type 54s have been retired from service since the 1970s, and were replaced by the Type 77 AAMG.

They didn't seem to have as many tracer rounds as we did. I don't believe they were four to one like ours. It was always the fire from the muzzle that scared the crap out of me. Never really saw the rounds much just heard them hitting. The whole ship would shudder...

In other words both are .50 caliber. Both are derived from Late WW1 12.7mm German Anti-tank guns based on Model 1898 Mauser Rifles (And the US used these Mauser's as late as WWII to test 12.7mm Rounds). The difference is the US 12.7 has a 99mm long Brass Cartridge (i.e. 12.7x99), while the Soviet 12.7 is 109mm long (i.w 12.7x109). As to effectiveness both weapons are interchangeable (Through NOT interchangeable when it comes to the weapon chambered for either round).

Now Both machine guns were designed as Anti-Tank weapons in the 1930s, To add to this confusion the Soviet used in WWII also fielded a 14.5mm Antitank Rifle (and a 14.5 MM Machine Gun). It is a good bit more powerful then either of the 12.7s (and a good bit heavier).

For more on the Russian 12.7 guns:
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg03-e.htm

For more on the US 12.7 guns::
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg04-e.htm

Basically, the Russians load their .50 caliber Rounds with a slightly heavier bullets than does the US, so it travels a little bit slower, but the effective ON TARGET, is about the same.


http://world.guns.ru/ammo/am03-e.htm

:shrug: Lets kill them by the city now...Not sure if this is Puff or spooky but it sure shoots a lot of bullets.

Pile up the bodies and let God sort them out. Next we will hear about free fire zones.

About the only thing worse is C-130's dropping Daisy Cutters. Chickenhawks

Remember what suffering some two-dozen people caused with box-cutters in their carry-on luggage, and that simple peasants have been blowing up Humvees with dynamite in shoeboxes. Recall that the Soviets slunk out of Afghanistan with nothing after a decade of fighting there....

This administration, they are fools to try something like this---it's just an invitation for more humiliation, as well as further stoking the fires in Iraq and elsewhere. Pride goeth before a fall.

Insanity!

Sounds like somebody thinks things are about to get interesting down in Dogpatch.

In other words, it's a huge shit sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite.

they don't discriminate. :(

being credited for all that good work in the press lately.

Last use was in Fallujah...not sounding good.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/030206D.shtml

Burying The Lancet Report
By Nicolas J. S. Davies
Z Magazine
February 2006 Issue

<Over a year ago an international team of epidemiologists, headed by Les Roberts of Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, completed a "cluster sample survey" of civilian casualties in Iraq. Its findings contradicted central elements of what politicians and journalists had presented to the US public and the world. After excluding any possible statistical anomalies, they estimated that at least 98,000 Iraqi civilians had died in the previous 18 months as a direct result of the invasion and occupation of their country. They also found that violence had become the leading cause of death in Iraq during that period. Their most significant finding was that the vast majority (79 percent) of violent deaths were caused by "coalition" forces using "helicopter gunships, rockets or other forms of aerial weaponry," and that almost half (48 percent) of these were children, with a median age of 8.>

The report goes on to analyse the media assault on the epidemiologists who conducted this study and their methodology. Very interesting read.

...Government is about to do.





<http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/ac119.asp>

<http://www.ac-119gunships.com/>

<http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/ac130.asp>

These might be (and most likely are) the new version:








More info and large versions of these and other pictures at the links above and below:

<http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ac-130.htm>

Rumsfeld's evil description of "the humanity of the weapons systems" in Fahrenheit 9/11 comes to mind.

Why is Karma taking forever?

...in the lowest level Hell with one of these things constantly circling and firing into his position, ripping his flesh to shreds each time, but that's just one Buddhist's opinion.

those "fundie" End Times movies or something. The moon turns red, stars fall from the skys, the sky disappears, mountains torn from their base or something like that.

Eerie.

Its a smoke screen!!!

The left-side ports of the AC-130s, 98-foot-long planes that can slowly circle over a target for long periods, bristle with a potent arsenal — 40 mm cannon that can fire 120 rounds per minute, and big 105 mm cannon, normally a field artillery weapon. The plane's latest version, the AC-130U, known as "Spooky," also carries Gatling gun-type 20 mm cannon.

Saw a video of one of these in action at night...scary shit.

...corrections, it's the AC-130U 'Spooky II' <http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/ac130.asp>

It was named "Spooky II" in honor of the first gunship model, the AC-47D, which was the "Spooky," and it's a 25mm GAU-12 Gatling gun, which was an upgrade from the previous version which did have the 20mm General Electric M61 Vulcan cannons. It might not sound like much of a change, but the 25mm round is much bigger.



I posted more above if anyone does decide to challenge your post.

There's parable that's been told in many forms throughout the twentieth century; I first heard it as a Vietnam story, but others have told me they heard it about the French, the Germans, and the British, and it usually involves spears.

Soldiers come back from a patrol with crossbow bolts sticking out of the side of their jeep. The CO asks, "How'd it go?"

One of the soldiers replies, "They shot at us with crossbows! CROSSBOWS! With our fire power and superior technology against an enemy with crossbows, how can we lose?"

The CO says, "With an enemy willing to use crossbows against our firepower and superior technology, how can we win?"

I don't mean to be gloom-and-doom defeatist, but everytime we brag about our superior technology and much higher body count, and another one of our soldiers comes home in a bodybag, I'm reminded of this story.

The world of Booby Traps is very low tech

And once your foot is blown off by one-----

you are pretty useless in the 100 yard dash.

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Iraqis are willing to sacrifice their lives, using their bodies to carry their weapons into enemy ranks, - certain death for the Iraqi.

Al the "smart" weapons in the world cannot defeat that kind of will.

Well, unless all that Depleted Uranium the USA is spreading around turns the whole nation into a population of deformed, sick citizens.

But they will continue to "pick off" Americans as long as they remain in Iraq.

The USA has not even the tiniest chance of winning the good will of the citizens of Iraq at this point.

Too many Iraqis have lost loved ones that they KNOW would never have died under Saddam.

And those uninformed Iraqis just do not understand the concept of "collateral damage" when used to make reference to their maimed and murdered family and friends in the USA's effort to "spread democracy and freedom"

They just see a vicious invader

for surface to air missiles.

we are supposed to be building?

...Military officials warned that disclosing the location of the aircraft's new base would violate security provisions of rules governing media access to U.S. installations...

Could that be what is going on?

:evilgrin:

I was searching for info on the Iraq Badr Brigade and noticed this small excerpt from an article dated March 3, don't know what the reliabilty is thou:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/mar2006/iraq-m03.shtml

~An American armoured brigade in Kuwait has been placed on alert to deploy into southern Iraq. The Marine Corp reported yesterday that a marine unit that was preparing to leave the Middle East has been ordered to disembark in Kuwait “to serve as a ready reserve force in support of combat operations in Iraq”.~