NYT: Families of Army's War Dead Are Hurt Again at Notification

:cry:

and their families because they are going through their ordeal together. The army officer had no right to tell the father what to do on his own property. He can mourn any way he pleases, Dammit! I thought these people were supose to have sensitivity training.

Apparently the sensitivity training is working just as well as the Iraqi troop training.

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

Bush is arrogant, unforgiving, vindictive, disrespectful, inept, unqualified and a chickenhawk.

It's set at second from the top. By a bastard named Dick Cheney!

He's behind everything...even the tone! Bush is nothing but an empty suit in the puppeteer's hands. Yes, the empty suit is arrogant, unforgiving, vindictive, disrespectful, inept, unqualified and a chickenhawk.

Maybe in another couple hundred years, after a dozen more wars.

until they can figure out how to be compassionate?

After three years of war in Iraq, with the number of active-duty deaths there surpassing 2,330, the military is scrambling to improve the way it cares for surviving relatives and honors soldiers who have been killed in battle. Even senior officials, including the secretary of the Army, have acknowledged flaws in the system.

So, after 3 years and over 2,300 deaths, somehow they still don't understand how to display compassion for the loss of a loved one? That's completely unacceptable!

That is about the most disgusting thing I have read all day.

That is my thought... I wish someone would try to tell me that I couldn't see what happened to my child after being killed in a unjust war.

i know that i would be a bitch on wheels and would probably attack the person who told me that! this story infuriates me! (can't you tell?)

the poor army guys didn't know how to comfort him and they had to pull him out of the van, put him out and get help. it was hellacious and it was filmed somehow I think. Remember? Terrible thing, this. The notifiers are volunteers and trained. this guy didn't sound very trained. its a hard job and very draining. some are very, very kind and good at this. This taints a lot of good people doing a horrible job.

I probably would have taken a match to it just to piss him off and incite him to take a swing at me on my property so I could defend it with deadly force.

I can't imagine the rage and pain.

and the way the national mood has been- I don't know why people would find this surprising. Kinda par for the course.

One outrage after another. Hidden coffins at Dover. Torture chambers. Fred Phelps at funerals.

And the American people have shown they'll take all of that and much more.

I don't expect to see it get any better.

My guess is that the Vietnam vets don't either.

I fucking hate bush and his war.

What an atrocious thing to say to the parents of a man who died in that hellhole.

And that officer who notified them has a nice, cushy, stateside job.

And obviously, he's not troubled by displays of raw emotion (unless you're destroying meaningless symbols), so he's laughing.

what this man is going through. When my sister died in a horrible car accident the M Docs at the ER told me i did not want to see her body. I insisted - it was awful but I got a sense of closure i never would have had otehrwise. If someone told me that about my son I would be arrested for assault. I hate bush - I hate this war - I hate my government

sort of Emancipation proclomation or something that no man was owned?

me thinks we shall be...or perhaps already be, in the eyes of those currently pulling the "strings."

Who the hell is the Army to tell the family that they can or cannot see the remains? I mean, I know military law gives the Army pretty much absolutel property rights over persons rash enough to enlist, but one would think that would stop once they're dead. Yet it sounds like the Army is trying to assert that it owns you even after death as well and can therefore decide what happens even to your corpse. I guess that's in the fine print somewhere when you sign up.

I could tell stories...

:(

A photograph on a memorial card shows Mr. Youngblood
holding Hunter before departing for Iraq.

How can we allow this to continue in our names?????

Look at the love on that man's face. Imagine that poor child...

Is Bush's life worth more than his? Damn him to hell, that fucker!

:cry:

:cry:

:banghead:

:grr:

they do (or at least did) go through sensitivity training. It is such a stressful duty that one doesn't serve but a short time. Realistically, there is now good way to tell someone that their child died. You have no idea how people react. These guys catch fainting people, have to call for medical help, have punches thrown at them, you name it.

To a soldier that has seen too many die in defense of our country-the act of taking the flag down (in grief by the parents) could be seen as disrespectful to what other have fought for. I think it was just an unfortunate incident. I respect that the military tries to break the news personally, in days past it was a telegram.

Just remember, the guy delivering the letter is a soldier and deserves our support too.

the family's loss. However. Take another look at it. "he walked out his front door and removed the American flag from its pole. Then, in tears, he tore down the yellow ribbons from his tree."

The soldier had no right or basis on which to try to force the homeowner into compliance with his own personal views, especially at a time like that. The guy delivering the letter doesn't deserve any support for what he said.

but you've GOT to know that people react to tragic news in unpredictable ways - ways which you have no right to judge.

Maybe Mr. Santorello would have put the flag and yellow ribbons back up after a mourning period of his choosing. Maybe he would have become a committed anti-war activist. The point is that Army Major Smartass had no way of knowing, and no right to make assumptions or to judge.

The duty is called Casualty Assistance Calls Officer (CACO)and it is much more than notification. There's a COURSE for it. The manual is as thick as as a major city's phone book. You have to be an expert in everything, from logistics to personnel to military pay to funeral honors.

You don't just tell the family that their child/husband/wife/parent is dead, you bring along a chaplain, you help them with benefits, filling out paperwork, transshipment of remains, arranging for funeral honors, and a host of other details. If there is a spouse, you stick by that spouse for six months, or however so long they need your help. You act in place of the active duty member in every way, shape or form that you possibly can. If the death is local, or the unit is rotating back home, you can get help from friends of the deceased, but if that is not the case, as it often isn't in this conflict, you shoulder the responsibility.

Everyone knows this who has done the duty. I've done it, collaterallly, at most duty stations I served at--once you get good at it, they keep sticking you with it--and I saw way too many casualty notifications. You never get used to it. It is sad, unpleasant, and necessary, and it does take a lot out of a person who has an ounce of humanity...but, and this is a big but, the CACO's sad feelings are absolutely nothing compared to the pain of the families.

It bothers me that they are even putting a clown who could even THINK to chastise a grieving family member on that duty. You take abuse, it's part of the damn job. I had a little Italian old grandma wail the crap out of me once--she didn't think she'd live longer than the grandson she raised. Whaddaya do? You try to comfort them and help them. You sit and listen. You do a LOT of that. Your job is to shepherd them through the worst days of their lives, with as few distractions as possible, so they can focus on their grieving and saying goodbye to their loved one.

It's a shitty job, but someone has to do it, and if they do it, they should do it well and honorably.

Loss of a child or grandchild is the worst thing that can ever happen to a person.

"It was the LEAST I could do..." Well, it really is the least anyone could do. There's no way you can make it right, you sure as hell can't raise their loved one from the dead, so you just have to mitigate, smooth, facilitate, shield, and make a hellish period of time, with ceremonies, paperwork, personal effects, questions, anger, sadness, and all of that stuff flow. You try to not make it harder than it has to be.

If you do the job right, you have to be an ADVOCATE for the survivor. They didn't join the service, so you have to translate lingo, put the rules and regs in plain english, get real, honest answers to their questions, and hold their hand through their worst nightmare.

It is gut wrenching, but if you take it on, you just have to do it right. Chin up, stiff upper lip, stay focused. There's no other way.

the guy that preformed this duty was not sensitive toward the parent, this is obvious. It is best that he excuse himself and someone else help the family navigate through this. And as insensitive as this guy was, I can still muster some empathy for him.

As a Nurse, I have broken the news to patients families, have stood by and supported Doc's as they broke the news, etc. It is never easy. I try to do the best job I can in those trying circumstances. I make sure that the deceased patients are cleaned up if at all possible and make sure that no patient close to death is alone. That said, we are all human and all different. The soldier in question is just not cut out for this type of duty and my sympathies to all involved.

people to this responsibility that are not cut out for it. And you're right, that is the issue. Certainly, no one WANTS to do this duty, but it is so important you would think that they would make an extra effort to screen the selectees. The way they seem to be going about it nowadays is the same way they used to (and may still) choose military recruiters--find people with perfect operational records, who are career invested, have a LOT to lose if their careers are truncated, and threaten them that if they screw up, their career and retirement are toast. Way to engender loyalty and dedication! Like having a gun to your head, 24/7...

I know that the USMC has gone away from using the dress uniform for notifications, and while their argument is that the uniform telegraphs the situation to the entire neighborhood, the simple fact is that if a stranger in any uniform, unless it is a UPS uniform, shows up at the house of a servicemember, the news is not good. The more formal uniforms do convey something to the families and the neighbors, certainly, but they also convey something to the CACO who is doing the notification, which is that this duty is important, momentous, formal, and should be handled with absolute dignity.

conveys the respect that this fallen soldier and they family deserve. The whole neighborhood will know soon enough. And what's so bad about that? Here in the South (even here in Tx), you bring a covered dish and try to help the family through a rough time.

They do like to screw with the career folks huh! I remember during my AIT, the Cpt. tried his darndest to recruit me into Active Army (I was in AR), I was really strak. Despite all of the goodies, etc I refuse. He finally asked why I kept turning down all offers. I told him that the military was the only place I knew where you take an oath to defend the Consitiution but in the process of defending the Constitution, you give up all your Constitutional rights. He paused (and I saw the light bulb go off) and burst out laughing and told me I was right....I really wouldn't last long in the military.

Off the topic..is your avatar a Westie (AKA WestHighland Terror erh Terrier). I'm not sure but the carrot tail looks familiar. I have my own home grown terror-she's a crack up.

I had another one, who died after a long life. The new one was a surprise gift, but she had a hip problem and an operation, so she's on bedrest and very limited activity for the next month or more. It's keeping me up at all hours, but hey, we have a houseful of animals and they're all family members! Isn't slowing her down, though--if not for the crate, she'd be wanting to climb mountains and run like hell. She's finally to the point where she tolerates a slow pace for brief periods on a leash, but if she had her way, she'd run like the wind, and undo the surgery...!

She protects the yard from birds and heaven help the fat squirrel. Actually they run up the trees and bark at her. She works herself in a tizzy and tries to climb the trees after them. I swear they are laughing at her (I know they tease her). And those adorable brown eyes that look up at you when you try to scold her. There is not a mean bone in her body, just pure love. My daughter swears she must have been a blonde in her past life, she tends to get into jams and would wonder off with anyone, she is so trusting. Hope your's recovers soon.

They do it in fatigues???

No respect. I hope the Marine Corps gets that fixed.

The Army Major in the story should be given a letter of reprimand in his permanent file for bad judgment and dereliction of duty.

This is a special duty in which the serviceman represents the entire military. No excuse. That dummy should retire a Major.

A step up from fatigues, a step down from the dress uniform.

It's what you see the office worker types wearing.

Still unsat.

is exactly what happened with the family of a fallen soldier from my small hometown. Their contact was an angel on earth. They could not say enough good things about him, and he continued to help them for more than a year after their son's death.

One of the main things he did, was help them get ahold of an accurate accounting of their son's death. In the end they were satisfied that they knew every detail and even spoke directly with some witnesses. At that point (and not a second before) they finally began to cope with his death.

I wish I knew the name of their contact. He's a great man.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

If that didn't work I'd get a chain saw. Nobody gets between me and my child. Nobody.

The kid in the article grew up in my town and I personally know many people that were friends with him. Just another reason why I FUCKING HATE THAT WERE THERE!!!!

A chaplain would have had the training and compassion to deal with such tragic events.

IIRC, I thought that soldiers mention what faith they worship in --- surely someone from that community should be asked to accompany the military personnel when making the call.

But the part of this story pretty much says it all why we have this problem: "The military did not expect to be fighting this long. It also did not expect to lose this many soldiers."

The chaplain provides the kind/religious words, the shoulder, and helps calm the situation on intial notification (you try, if possible, to match faiths if you are coming out of a big installation, or you borrow one from a neighboring facility, if that is practicable). Some, to be honest, are better than others. I've worked with ones who were fantastic, and others who were as useful as a sack of rotted potatoes (you wonder why those types went into the religion game). To be fair, the good ones outweighed the bad.

Servicemembers do put their faith affiliation in their personnel records, and they have the option to put none or not declare which faith they adhere to, if they so desire. That information is coded into their file, and is available with two keystrokes.

The casualty officer is the one with the information and the forms. The forms HAVE to be done. There's a shitload of paperwork. The good CACO tries to get as much of the verifiable information as possible completed ahead of time, but decisions, such as the receiving funeral home, the date of interment, and that sort of information has to wait until you talk to the survivors.

I've often thought, that if they cannot do this shit right, they need to recall some retirees on a volunteer basis to do this awful work. By asking for volunteers, they'd likely get a better quality of CACO. What they are doing now is making it virtually a "conscription" task within the confines of the AVF. That makes for a lousy cadre, IMO.

I think a volunteer (retire military) is a great idea. You've been in both places and can be more empathetic.