Democrats Won't Focus Hayden Hearing on Surveillance

....Senior Democratic senators such as Wyden, Intelligence Committee member Carl Levin of Michigan and Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts said they were concerned about whether Hayden would be independent enough to give President George W. Bush unvarnished assessments of intelligence.

This is BULLSHIT!!!

We need leaders not afraid to go all the way. The Republicans certainly were not afraid to use everything within their reach against Democrats.

This is pink-tutu shit. I'm sick of it!

:banghead:

"Democrats Won't Focus Hayden Hearing on Surveillance"

bad move.

"Democrats say they will focus their fire on Michael Hayden's military background and suitability to head the Central Intelligence Agency"

They should do both & also listen to Ray McGovern..

Ray McGovern is a former CIA analyst on Lou Dobbs interviewed by Kitty Pilgrim. May 8,2006

PILGRIM: You're not shy about giving an opinion, so I'm going to ask you what you think today about General Michael Hayden to head the CIA.



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http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0605/08/ldt.01.html

true

I'm leaning that way more and more with each passing day.

Most Americans support the government's surveillance.

gotten the "memo" that they are being spied on.
They believe it is just them there Terrorist or radicals!
:sarcasm:

I could be wrong but it is what I believe.

:shrug:

yes. If you are against the war or the bush Regime, yeah.

:shrug:

US expands domestic spying: report
From correspondents in Washington
28-11-2005
From: Agence France-Presse

THE US Defence Department is expanding domestic intelligence collection in ways that could allow it so circumvent barriers to military spying on US citizens, the Washington Post has reported.
Formerly focused on protecting its US bases and military operations, Pentagon intelligence collection inside the United States has already expanded to cover broader terrorist threats to the country.
However, proposed moves to further expand the military's domestic intelligence activities in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001, have sparked worries among politicians and civil liberties advocates that such activities could go out of control, the newspaper said.
"We are deputizing the military to spy on law-abiding Americans in America. This is a huge leap without even a (congressional) hearing," Senator Ron Wyden said.

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http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17387554-1702,00.html?from=rss

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&hl=en&q=Spying+on+Americans+by+US+Government&btnG=Google+Search
http://www.securityfocus.com/brief/106
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=George_W._Bush's_domestic_spying
Russell Tice
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&hl=en&q=Russell+Tice&btnG=Google+Search
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/03/1435201

With almost 300 million people, that would be pretty impressive.

Prove to me it is very few Americans..
I could sit here all day & night posting links about this but seems like you have decided Most were not & why that matters, I have not a clue.

but hey, I do not agree with you not in the least.

Question could be why does it matter most, many or a few to you?
Everyone is connected one way or another.
No one should be spied on for questioning or disagreeing with bush policies.

If they beleive they are being spied on, they will be concerned. Which is why this is not a winning issue for Democrats.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2274210&mesg_id=2274256

"Now, as a uniformed military officer he should have known that he was bound not to obey an illegal order. He should have said Mr. Vice President and Mr. President, with all due respect, that's an illegal order. I will not fulfill it"

Total Information Awareness

TIA Lives On

By Shane Harris, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, Feb. 23, 2006

A controversial counter-terrorism program, which lawmakers halted more than two years ago amid outcries from privacy advocates, was stopped in name only and has quietly continued within the intelligence agency now fending off charges that it has violated the privacy of U.S. citizens.



Research under the Defense Department's Total Information Awareness program -- which developed technologies to predict terrorist attacks by mining government databases and the personal records of people in the United States -- was moved from the Pentagon's research-and-development agency to another group, which builds technologies primarily for the National Security Agency, according to documents obtained by National Journal and to intelligence sources familiar with the move. The names of key projects were changed, apparently to conceal their identities, but their funding remained intact, often under the same contracts.

It is no secret that some parts of TIA lived on behind the veil of the classified intelligence budget. However, the projects that moved, their new code names, and the agencies that took them over haven't previously been disclosed. Sources aware of the transfers declined to speak on the record for this story because, they said, the identities of the specific programs are classified.

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http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2006/0223nj1.htm

ALL the TIME.

http://www.nsawatch.org/echelon.html
http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dlj/articles/dlj50p1467.htm




http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dlj/articles/dlj50p1467.htm#H2N5

C. Executive Order 12,333

The next significant development in the law governing electronic surveillance in support of intelligence activities was Executive Order 12,333, issued by President Ronald Reagan in 1981. Executive Order 12,333 was designed to clarify the overall framework under which United States intelligence agencies should conduct foreign intelligence activities. Executive Order 12,333 outlines each member of the intelligence community's responsibilities and sets out rules governing the means by which these duties are to be fulfilled. This executive order places responsibility for signals intelligence solely with the NSA.162 It provides:

Collection of . . . information is a priority objective and will be pursued in a vigorous, innovative and responsible manner that is consistent with the Constitution and applicable law and respectful of the principles upon which the United States was founded."163

The executive order was intended to provide the framework for an intelligence-gathering apparatus that "achieves the proper balance between the acquisition of essential information and protection of individual interests."164

<*pg 1499>

III. PROBLEMS WITH THE CURRENT LEGAL REGIME

Though there seems to be a comprehensive set of regulations governing SIGINT activities, these regulations have not been updated sufficiently to account for the technological changes that have fundamentally altered the nature of the SIGINT-gathering business.175 As alluded to previously, Congress has created different legal regimes to regulate electronic surveillance used in ordinary criminal and foreign intelligence cases. The criminal wiretap laws were updated in the 1980s with the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986176 and in the 1990s with the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act,177 but the laws and regulations governing foreign intelli- <*pg 1502> gence surveillance have not been kept similarly current. United States Signal Intelligence Directive 18 was promulgated in October 1980, while the Department of Defense Procedures Governing the Activities of DoD Intelligence Components That Affect United States Persons has not been modified since December 1982. Similarly, Executive Order 12,333 has not been updated or superceded since it was signed by President Reagan on December 4, 1981. FISA has been periodically updated to reflect minor changes, but its basic framework has remained unchanged since it was enacted in 1978.178

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more at link below:


http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dlj/articles/dlj50p1467.htm#H2N7

USA TODAY - NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?csp=34

The good news is that you were right. The bad news is... that you were right.

It is horrible news & there is no pleasure in being right about it.
Database is actually such a scary thing.
A little too 1984 for me.



http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/

Did you catch this article, too?



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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060510/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/domestic_spying



:hurts: :nuke: :banghead:


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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12121.htm



"For whom, it suddenly occurred to him to wonder, was he writing this diary? For the future, for the unborn? ... For the first time the magnitude of what he had undertaken came home to him. How could you communicate with the future? It was of its nature impossible. Either the future would resemble the present in which case it would not listen to him, or it would be different from it, and his predicament would be meaningless."

- Winston Smith, from Orwell's 1984

http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/

and this



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http://www.kten.com/Global/story.asp?S=4508858

As George Orwell described it in 1984,

"The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it, moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard."

"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."

Virginia Terrorism Manual pdf

http://www.virginianewssource.com/images/VATerrorismManual.pdf



<clip>

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=2126

READ THE FLYER FOR YOURSELF

The flyer is a tri-fold, so you'll have to turn your head sideways to read one of the sections.

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=2126

...the NSA is LEGALLY allowed to tap all communications into and out of the country. They are also LEGALLY allowed to tap communications of anyone in the U. S. for whom they have received a valid warrant.

They are NOT allowed to record the communications of ALL Americans, which it appears they are doing. That is STILL illegal in this country, no matter how much Herr Busch considers himself to be above the law.

Nation
Eyes And Ears Of The Nation
Thousands of truckers, bus drivers and rest-stop workers are being enlisted to spot terrorists. Is this comforting news?
By AMANDA RIPLEY/LITTLE ROCK
Jul. 5, 2004

On a blazing hot morning last week, 75 men and women of the highway — bus drivers, truckers and van operators — convened at a nondescript office building in Little Rock, Ark., to be trained as terrorist hunters. The Department of Homeland Security this year gave $19.3 million to the American Trucking Associations, which is based in Alexandria, Va., to recruit a volunteer " army" called Highway Watch. So far, 10,000 truckers have signed on to become amateur sleuths. Over the next year, the goal is to add tollbooth workers, rest-stop employees and construction crews, creating a corps of...
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,658321,00.html



<clip>

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst080904.htm

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much more at link:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?csp=34

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1155507&mesg_id=1155507

Perhaps the reason that people are not concerned is because the opposition party would surely be raising some objections if it were true.

The reality is that the administration runs both the Justice department and the NSA, and they told their NSA to withold security clearances from their justice department lawyers, clearances that are required to conduct the investigation the administration "ordered" them to do.

Barney Fife wouldn't tolerate this kind of obfuscation. The investigation was an obvious head-fake.

The american public don't object because they don't know. They don't know because democrats don't think that looking out for their constituents is a winning strategy.

Much of the angst I see in my conservative acquaintances is related to this failure. They can see that the administration has gone too far with regard to domestic spying and are frankly puzzled at why democrats don't do something about it.

The only thing that is relevant is the fact that the spying is being done illegally. Whether or not a majority of americans care is also irrelevant.

The spying COULD have been done legally just by going to the FISA court even after the fact. Mad George - the DECIDER - decided that he was above the law, and like Nixon believes that "when the President does it that makes it legal". This act alone makes him liable for impeachment, and IMO that's exactly what is going to happen to him (and Crash Cart Cheney). In fact there is speculation that the republicans are so afraid of losing both houses of congress they THEY may impeach him BEFORE the november elections, just to raise their credibility.

Get your head out of your ass for once.

But I am expecting too muchf from you, as usual.

warrant" is not in the media lexicon.. The soft pedaling of this clearly illegal program has kept the majority of Americans (you know, the ones not really paying attention) from knowing what's going on.

It's illegal and it's wrong. America was for the war In Iraq at one time too. They need to be educated about just how wrong and illegal it is and these hearings could provide some of that education.

Jay

The people supported it, but it was still wrong and it was still fought.

The Senate doesn't need "public support" for the right thing to do the right thing.

It's evidently too hard for some numbskulls here to understand.

And it's always the usual suspects.

Figures.

:hi:

The rub is that the poll simply asked "Do you support the government wiretapping communications?"

Most said yes.

But the issue is not wiretapping. The issue is that it was and is being done ILLEGALLY.

So a legit question would've gone: "Do you support the President ordering wiretapping AGAINST THE LAW?"

Impressive, the amount of effort they go to to manaage the news.

*ahem*

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/12/10481/1427

If they're that stupid, I hope they don't expect to get re-elected.

Polling can tell you when the appropriate time to bring up less important issues like a tax increase or the occasional education bill, but on issues of our civil liberties it doesn't matter what polling says.

I ask you, when have we crossed the line into being a police state?

so you prove Bush's point to be right?

That we're a party that makes decisions off of polls rather than what's right and legal?

Honestly, your statement disgusts me so much, I'm at a loss for words. You're statement is something I'd expect from the likes of cynical hacks like Dick Morris.

Honestly, it's pretty evident Bush BROKE THE LAW. Do you not see a problem with that? Why bother fighting for the constitution at all if that's your attitude?

It's utterly disgusting the way they pander to the repukes to "get elected".

Disgusting.

Will we ever find out? They can't all have been blackmailed!
Or have they??

"We'll use that powder...soon. Just you wait!"

When I keep reading shit like this I've gotta say, what fuckin difference will it honestly make which party controls congress next year. Does it honestly matter anymore?

Not so much!

Chances are that this nomination is going through. In addition to the goose step, I mean lock step GOP, DINOs like Leiberman and Feinstien are going to be on board with it.

If we make it a fight about the surveilllance program, when the vote goes Bush's way, he can proclaim the spying vindicated by the Senate.

and this is the perfect forum. Americans were illegally spied on, and hyden was one of the people who was involved in it under the NSA

We can blame diebold, and the MSM only so much, but you cannot blame them for the democrats who voted for the IWR, the patriot act, and those that run away from Russ Feingold's censor resolution

It is becoming more and more evident to me that unless the Democratic party is cleaned up from within, it is over for this country

What the fuck is their reason for not challenging this?!

are perfectly fine with the spying program. It's hard for me to believe that people are okay with it...but it's true. They've bought the repukes line of "I'm not doing anything wrong so why should I care"?

Anyone remember back in 2002 when Democrats in the Senate blocked the creation of the DHS in order to protect civil service rules for employees?

Remember how many seats the Republicans picked up in the House and Senate?

because they don't want to give the GOP an issue to run on?!?! I say give them the issue, whatever it is and get a set of balls and challenge their pathetic issue. I'm sick of hearing this crap.

To just keep doing the same thing and expect a different result is foolish.

The Dems should FIGHT FOR WHAT'S RIGHT AND JUST instead of "strategizing" like they did the last times!

STAND UP AND STAND FOR WHAT IS RIGHT. BE WILLING TO PLACE IT ALL ON THE LINE AND FIGHT THE GOOD JUST FIGHT AND BE WILLING TO LOSE!

But instead we lose anyway with our "compromising" and "not rocking the boat too much".

Sickening.

and it looks like they will fail us again

experts like Ray McGovern.

Vote against Democratic incumbents in primary races. Throw the cowards out!

Jay

yes we have people such as liberman and feinstein who do NOT represent the interests of the country or us very well, but we must be careful NOT to throw the baby out with the bath water

Rangel, Feinnngold, Murtha And Conyers come to mind. They all need to know, however, that we are not pleased.

Jay

that is where the problem actually stems from

and if she does NOT take a stance against Hayden, well, I will do my utmost to insure her defeat in 2008.

"Senior Democratic senators such as Wyden, Intelligence Committee member Carl Levin of Michigan and Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts said they were concerned about whether Hayden would be independent enough to give President George W. Bush unvarnished assessments of intelligence."

The CIA was established to give the President an INDEPENDENT view of intelligence matters. Having a still-in-uniform military DCI puts that independence at doubt. From a governmental structure point of view this makes good sense and a very good argument against Hayden. It does not rule out bringing up the NSA warrant-less wiretapping, and it does appeal to those that have problems with this end run around the National Security Act of 1947 and the history and tradition of US Intelligence command and control.

I view this as a VERY smart point to raise.

I don't expect much from them on this one

negroponte and this administration want to put a KGB in control. This isn't about a military man becoming head of the CIA, this is about a person who was involved in illegally spying on U.S. citizens

Apparently the overpaid Washington consultants are back up to it again.

Nooooooooooooo...that'd be too RISKY!

:sarcasm:

Sweet babbling mother of god on roller skates - what the hell is it going to take before the Democratic Party in Washington is going show some concern about the rape of the republic? Are * and Cheney going to have to rob banks before they start thinking that there is something more than just a political difference here? How about cannibalism? If Cheney and * eat someone will that do it? Or would it depend on who was eaten? "naturally we dislike cannibalism but seeing as they are the president and vice president and the alleged victim was a poor person, at this time we feel it is more important to keep the government functioning rather than indulge in non-productive blame spreading. Besides we're invited to their next barbecue."

:banghead:

His running the nsa illegal wiretapping program is directly connected to his ability to run the CIA - the CIA has strict guidelines on domestic activities, I think we need to know or at least make this clown say he will abide by them. Under oath. It will help when he goes to trial later for the NSA wiretaps.

blah blah blah
Fighting Dems Where Be Ye?

How can they still be such gutless wonders? It's yet one more rare opportunity about to be walked away from...

a fight about surveillance! They made deals to avoid Senate hearings, that's how much they "welcome" the fight.

These Democrats are pretty fucked up, I must say.

manifestations of corruption are what's behind this-as our Constitution and Bill of Rights are further supplanted by the "national security" shield used by criminals (and worse)-both in and out of uniform.

Surely a lot of the people's interest in this matter have been disregarded by our politicians, which allows hidden agendas of cliques within this criminal administration to be advanced, again.

:argh:

with security clearances and intelligence experience.

http://waynemadsenreport.com/nsa/heroes.htm

This is, after all, the same group of so called leaders who stood tough on the Patriot Act, the Ashcroft nomination, the IWR, the Roberts and Alito nominations, etc. etc. ad nauseum(with a heavy emphasis on the nausea).

And people wonder why there is a slow migration on the left from the Democratic party to the Green party. Hey, they may be small, but at least they stand up and fight.

if the NSA or CIA spied on him. What we got here is a purely lockstepping partisan loving administration who would love (if they haven't already done it) to spy on every opposition party. What do you think Dems, love being spied upon so that you can lose every election? Want them to know every campaign plan you have, so that they can counter it before you even initiate it? Or have some of you made a deal with the Devil? The Devil, you know, never keeps a promise. :eyes:

May 10 (Bloomberg) -- Democrats say they will focus their fire on Michael Hayden's military background and suitability to head the Central Intelligence Agency when Senate confirmation hearings begin next week -- and won't emphasize the nominee's role in running a much-criticized eavesdropping program.

Bush administration officials and their Republican congressional allies have said they would welcome a fight over the surveillance program, which Hayden initiated during his tenure as director of the National Security Agency. Democrats say they won't oblige them.

``I'm sure the administration is going to make this about the NSA,'' said Senator Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat and member of the Intelligence Committee, which will consider the nomination. ``But for me credibility is the issue first and foremost.''

Senior Democratic senators such as Wyden, Intelligence Committee member Carl Levin of Michigan and Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts said they were concerned about whether Hayden would be independent enough to give President George W. Bush unvarnished assessments of intelligence.

``The No. 1 issue for me is speaking truth to power,'' Levin said. Wyden said ``the danger in the job is succumbing to the `slam-dunk' syndrome.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aFP1GaLi.nig&refer=top_world_news

9/11, the War in Iraq, I don't know how many troops killed, maimed/scarred for life, wounded and a presidency without checks and balances.

Also I would eschew the term "war on terror" and pick up the soundbite instead that we are at war with AlQaeda and its allies. If your fighting a war, it's good to know who your enemy is.

"Democrats say they will focus their fire on Michael Hayden's military background and suitability to head the Central Intelligence Agency when Senate confirmation hearings begin next week -- and won't emphasize the nominee's role in running a much-criticized eavesdropping program."

My greatest fear ... Democrats are STILL afraid of Bush and Cheney and the 'terror' card. Understand that the NSA spying --overseen by Hayden -- is what Feingold's censure resolution is all about.

If this turns out to be true, it means that the Dems are already not too sure about this "growing a spine" stuff ... they still cannot seem to dredge up enongh courage to confront Bush 'mano a mano'.

It will be another surrender.

How has he bought their silence?

I have a real strong feeling this statement/story/surmise is exactly what our side wants out there.

No sense giving the Great Wurlitzer time to engineer the spin of our mere statements. Better to have the questions asked at a time when the answers can't be too well formulated ahead of time.

I'd bet anything it goes to the wiretapping and eavesdropping.

He really gives Bushco no quarter!

:sarcasm:

Geez, what a bunch of cowardly, irresponsible "leaders" we dems now have. Anyone besides Feingold out there willing to do the right thing? To maybe, oh, I dunno, maybe REPRESENT us?!

Yeah, that's it. DON'T ask him about the most important 'discovery' since 911. We are doomed.

the Military Industrial Complex. By the way DiFi is preachin' I'd just love to see "in what companies" she puts her personal financial investments.

These Democratic War Hawks have their PERSONAL finances chocked to the gills in our EMPIRE. They don't really give a damn how many middle and working class kids DIE, they're making money! :puke:

you dumb fuck Democrats, this piece of shit is spying on YOU! What the hell is wrong with these idiots, no wonder we are in such a world of shit. This really is too much for me right now I've had it with these useless wastes of money and skin! :puke: :nuke: :grr:

On Keith Olbermann tonight, his guest Jonathan Turley said that General Hayden wasted 2 billiong dollars at NSA on a program called Trailblazer.

Here is what I googled on this:

System error

The NSA has spent six years and hundreds of millions of dollars trying to kick-start a program, intended to help protect the United States against terrorism, that many experts say was doomed from the start.

By Siobhan Gorman

Originally published January 29, 2006

A program that was supposed to help the National Security Agency pluck out electronic data crucial to the nation's safety is not up and running more than six years and $1.2 billion after it was launched, according to current and former government officials.

The classified project, code-named Trailblazer, was promoted as the NSA's state-of-the-art tool for sifting through an ocean of modern-day digital communications and uncovering key nuggets to protect the nation against an ever-changing collection of enemies.

Its main goal when it was launched in 1999 was to enable NSA analysts to connect the 2 million bits of data the agency ingests every hour -- a task that has grown increasingly complex with the advent of the Internet, cell phones, and instant messaging -- and enable analysts to quickly pick out the most important information.

The stakes could scarcely be higher.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/custom/attack/bal-te.trailblazer29jan29,1,1444424.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

09/12/05; Vol. 20 No. 18

Trailblazer loses its way

By ALICE LIPOWICZ

Launched in 2000 by former NSA Director Gen. Michael Hayden, who recently became deputy to National Intelligence Director John Negroponte, Trailblazer's aim is to replace the agency's Cold War technologies for collecting intelligence, geared mostly to intercepting Soviet radio messages, with modern global IT that can handle surveillance of cell phones, e-mail, fiber-optic telephones and other modern communication technologies. Trailblazer not only collects but also aids in analyzing the information.

"Every time a Soviet plane took off, NSA knew about it. It was pretty easy to track," Bamford said. "Now they have to track people who use cell phones, pay phones and calling cards ... You have to be a bit optimistic to think it will work."

<snip>

But the IT program, most of which is classified, has become mired in difficulties. Last year, a joint congressional committee inquiry into the Sept. 11 attacks said Trailblazer is viewed as the solution to many of NSA's challenges, "but the implementation of those solutions is three to five years away, and confusion still exists at NSA as to what will actually be provided by that program."

In April, Hayden testified to the Senate Intelligence Committee that Trailblazer was racking up extra costs and dropping behind schedule.

http://www.washingtontechnology.com/news/20_18/federal/26960-1.html

"You dam Crats better do as I say...despite what you hear, I'm the Decider!"

He's sure the administration is going to make this about the NSA...what kind of fucking drugs are these people on???

because our leaders have NO BALLS! How high does disapproval of this evil administration have to go before the Democrats get the message?

We lose all credibility everytime we make nice with these guys now...

The fact he's in uniform is the least of our worries. If they don't challenge him on the illegal spying it will amount to a permission slip to King George to violate more of our rights. Democrats shouldn't be afraid of the voters over this. If the issue is framed properly, the sheeple will get it. When a poll is out there with a question such as "Do you approve of President Bush's spying program as a method of capturing terrorists?" of course they'll say "yes." If the poll was framed as it should be, "Do you approve of President Bush ignoring the Constitution and spying on Americans?" it would be "no." Spines, people, spines.

of our regime spying on everyone will bitchslap these spineless cowards into reality?

by my posts that I've had enough. I know this is a Dem board but honestly at this point I'm about as angry and fed up with the Democratic Washington establishment as I am the extreme right, afterall NONE of this disaster could have happened without their assistance and it appears the rollovers and surrender continue....................

So now we know these 3 phone companies are turning over our phone records to our Nazi government. Qwest refused, but that system is located in the NW and West. Anyone know another phone company in Georgia I can switch to? Or must I move west?

And the Dems don't want to make this an issue? Are they waiting until Bush's brown shirts are knocking our doors down? We are very close to that, yet you read the RW wacko sites and they are fine with this.

But don't tell the Democrats to put a fight over this. The poor things...

Tens of millions of people having their call records scrutinized by Hayden's NSA? Can't claim it has anything to do with terra any more.

What is a girl to do?

Something about "roll over" and "look the other way" as Democracy shrivels and dies?

Once it's gone folks...just like the polar ice caps, and polar bears...that's IT.

Geeez...

We certainly don't want to be perceived as the opposition party when Smirky's poll numbers are so high.

These fucking corporate dweebs ARE the problem, not the goddamned republicans.

Let Reid know how big of a mistake this would be.

Demcorats are nearly POWERLESS right now... THIS IS OUR CHANCE! Sworn testimony about breaking the law ... and for NO REASON! They HAD the information they needed to stop 9/11, they just didn't want to act on it! And since they weren't swon in those hearings, we failed to expose ANYTHING to the public.

We CANNOT let an opportunity to defend the constitution and the american public's civil rights pass us by!

:shrug:

fromt he silver platter they're handing us when we can still get scraps from the floor?

Just this week:

First it was Dean's INEXCUSABLE performance.

Second it was Pelosi's flat out NO to upholding the Constitution.

Now this.

That's THREE STRIKES fellas!

Boy that powder must be awfully DRY by now!

I don't know, I just don't know.

These are NOT good moves if they expect my vote in November. Not good at all.