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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:07 PM
Original message
Chavez to ignore Blair on UK trip
14 May 2006

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is to arrive in Britain for a private visit.

Mr Chavez, a radical leftist, will meet the Mayor of London Ken Livingstone as well as some Labour MPs and union leaders during his two-day trip.

But he will not meet Prime Minister Tony Blair, whom he has called a pawn of the "imperialist" US.

Mr Chavez controls a country with the world's fifth largest oil supply. On Friday Mr Blair urged Venezuela to use its energy resources responsibly.

The BBC's World Affairs correspondent Chris Morris says Mr Chavez is following in the footsteps of Cuban leader Fidel Castro.

Mr Chavez combines populist economics, authoritarian politics and a fundamental dislike of the United States - particularly the way he says it tries to dominate its neighbours, our correspondent says.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4769387.stm

Chavez definitely has "mucho juevos grande ".
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well Blair would allow him in the country
IMHO he could not get a Visa to come to BushWorld. :grr:

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nick303 Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. He was in NYC a few months ago nt
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FightingIrish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. I love it
In Colbertspeak, Chavez is treating the poodle as "dead to me".
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. HUGE "STUFF" Hugo has.......
:D....Gotta love this...well...at least some of us find it a real hoot...
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AusGail Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. Blair is not one to talk
He advises Venezuela to use its resources responsibly. Maybe when Blair starts using his military more responsibly, then he might be able to dish out advice to others. How dare he. He says he is Labour when he is actually a conservative. Chavez should take his friend, Fidel with him and really upset the establishment. Long reign Chavez and may the axis of evil(Howard,Blair and Bush) be trounced in their respective elections
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Blair's advice to Chavez re using "it's resources wisely" translates
into 'don't waste it on helping your people, let us, through our oil corporations, steal your resources for profit instead'. Blair is a POS.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Here Here!!!....Well said!
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Imagine if, in outraged tones, Hugo Chavez reproached the fact
that Bush and Blair exploit their respective country's oil and other resources in a manner he had not approved!

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tatertop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hugo is the man of the hour! Viva Chavez!
I see we have fewer and fewer detractors as time goes on.
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. The loss is Blair's.
He could learn about true democratic freedoms from Chavez.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why would Chavez bother with Bush's poodle?
Particularly after Blair's offensive remarks about the Europeans having a divine right to the world's resources. One would think Queen Victoria was still alive and that Blair was an official in the Colonial Office.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Hugo and the Chinese leader are evidently reading from
the same hymn-sheet! Tee Hee ("tither tither", for extended laughter).
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. What's authoritarian about Chevez's politics?
Edited on Sun May-14-06 12:00 AM by daleo
They don't back that smear up with anything but "our correspondent says". Shoddy journalism.

On edit - speaking of authoritarianism, has anyone in the British authorities been punished for executing the innocent Brazilian in the subway?
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. The independent report is currently with the Crown Prosecution Service
who have to decide whether to bring charges. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4624794.stm

British rules about what can be said in the media about a possible court case are stricter than in the US (so the jury isn't influenced by hearing bits of evidence outside the court), so there can't be much in the media until it's decided what charges are, or aren't, brought.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. Chavez has cornered the market on bravado. I never liked poodles.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Chavez is a Rottweiller
to tony's poodle.

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Sadie5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Blair advises Venezuela to use its resources responsibly
Oh yeah! Chavez is an @$$ for not helping with the CEO bonuses and making the oil companies pay all of that nasty tax. Chavez is taking food right off of the oil companies tables. Too bad! Chavez will teach Blair a lesson or two hopefully.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Chavez is a threat to global corporatists
Viva Chavez!

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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Chavez has more class, he is like an Akita
nt
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. you want to argue dogs here???
How about a Mastiff?



:)
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. nope, Chavez is more like an Akita
nt
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anoraksia53 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
18. Greg Palast's new book predicts that Chavez
will be assissanated.......I hope not but he'd be a target, that makes sense. Let's hope he has good security especially while he's in Blair Country.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. LOL!!!...the attempts by Bush were already made. Story's over.
Make him a bigger martyr?

Not a chance now.
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anoraksia53 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Chavez had a lucky escape
and there's no reason to think they won't stop trying. Hey the Brits could be better than the US......escaping once doesn't garantee you'll escape all the time. They'd then use military power to put down any martyr-kind of unrest.

AFter Palast book comes out maybe we'll know something else about this and maybe him talking about it so out in the open will make it harder to pull off or make anyone who kills him pay a way heavier political price.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. You know Bush would, in a heart beat, if he believes he can get by with it
DU'er "Stockholm" posted a great article by John Pilger in "Editorials." This passage ends the article:
A US army publication, Doctrine for Asymmetric War against Venezuela, describes Chávez and the Bolivarian revolution as the "largest threat since the Soviet Union and Communism". When I said to Chávez that the US historically had had its way in Latin America, he replied: "Yes, and my assassination would come as no surprise. But the empire is in trouble, and the people of Venezuela will resist an attack. We ask only for the support of all true democrats."
Here's Stockholm's thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x210188


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anoraksia53 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Thx for link n/t
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Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
21. they'd never let him in the US
Sad but true
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nick303 Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Can we stop the drama on this?
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Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Hah, if only they'd publicized it I would've known
I didn't think they'd let him in. They must've been wiretapping him and having undercover agents flanking him the entire time.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
35. "...He (Chavez) then toured New York City..."
People's Weekly World Newspape
Venezuela’s Chavez gets UN ovation
09/22/05
http://www.pww.org/article/view/7764/1/287/

UNITED NATIONS — Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez received tremendous applause from world leaders at the United Nations World Summit Sept. 15 after a stirring speech assailing the Bush administration and world capitalism. He then toured New York City, greeted by enthusiastic crowds, and repeated his offer of oil and other assistance to low-income Americans.

...

After the UN Summit, Chavez spoke alongside the Rev. Jesse Jackson at a church on Manhattan’s Upper West Side. He attracted thousands of supporters, filling the church to capacity, with hundreds left waiting outside.

...
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Walt Disney Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
27. I suspect it is the other way around.
After all, why would a legitimate head of state pretend that a backward thinking punk like Chavez is on the same level?




Adolph Hitler would be very pleased.
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manic expression Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. What are you talking about?
I do think you have swallowed too much propaganda. Chavez' relations with Cuba are well known.

You are delusional and insane if you think there is anything wrong with that. Castro and the Cuban people have ensured that the people, not Uncle Sam and his cronies, benefit from Cuba.

Enjoy:

Before the 1959 revolution
• 75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.
• More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.
• 85% had no inside running water.
• 91% had no electricity.
• There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.
• More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.
• Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.
• The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.
• 45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.
• 25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.
• 1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).
• 27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.
• Racial discrimination was widespread.
• The public school system had deteriorated badly.
• Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.
• Police brutality and torture were common.

___



After the 1959 revolution

“It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.

-

It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.

“What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.



No one can say with any credibility that universal education and universal health care is forced on Cubans. Castro didn't give it to them. All of the people of Cuba worked hard to create the infrastructure and systems that they felt were essential for any progressive system.

Cubans wanted universal health care for all Cubans, and they have it. They pushed for government that represented their ideals, and organized and formed infrastructure that enabled Cubans to create a fair and complete h-c system. Cubans wanted universal education for all Cubans, and they have it. They pushed for government that represented their ideals, organized and formed infrastructure that enabled Cubans to create a complete and world class ed system, and they have it. Cubans want to assist the world's poor with doctors and educators, instead of gun ship diplomacy.. and that is what they have done WITH their government, not at odds with their government.

Can Americans make this claim about their own country? I'm afraid not.


Cubans want normalization between the US and Cuba, and they have thrown their doors open to us, but, it is our US government that prevents what the majority of Americans want their government to do - normalize relations. Worse yet, the US government forbids and has criminalized travel to Cuba by Americans - something that Cuba hasn't done.

Poll: Americans don't support Cuban Sanctions
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=770

(from Mika)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

There's more:

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.html
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. We get the oddest posts here, sometimes. It's a shame one can't
get these people to do any reading. It's an embarrassment trying to answer remarks which have nothing whatsoever to do with reality!

It makes such easy work for the propagandists when some people believe everything half-wits tell them.

It really would do some people a world of good to actually understand the conditions existing in these countries during the time they have been controlled by American right-wing U.S. Presidents' puppet dictators. The poor of South and Central Americas have been desperately exploited, and right-wing citizen dipsticks up here have absolutely no awareness of it whatsoever. None.

It simply confuses them when Latin Americans hold signs up saying "Yanqui, go home." They have no idea what it's all about. It hurts their widdle feelings. Sheesh.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. "Backward thinking putz," I think you have Chavez confused with Bush.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Thanks I needed a laugh this morning. EOM
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. He was democratically elected
and continues to have the support of the majority of his people, but I know that doesn't matter to you.

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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Much unlike Hitler, in spite of what Rumsfeld says
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler

Hitler's appointment as Chancellor

Meanwhile Papen, resentful because of his dismissal, tried to get his revenge on Schleicher by working toward the General's downfall, through forming an intrigue with the camarilla and Alfred Hugenberg, media mogul and chairman of the DNVP. Also involved were Hjalmar Schacht, Fritz Thyssen and other leading German businessmen. They financially supported the Nazi Party, which had been brought to the brink of bankruptcy by the cost of heavy campaigning. The businessmen also wrote letters to Hindenburg, urging him to appoint Hitler as leader of a government "independent from parliamentary parties" which could turn into a movement that would "enrapture millions of people."<2>

Finally, the President reluctantly agreed to appoint Hitler Chancellor of a coalition government formed by the NSDAP and DNVP. Hitler and two other Nazi ministers (Frick, Göring) were to be contained by a framework of conservative cabinet ministers, most notably by Papen as Vice-Chancellor and by Hugenberg as Minister of Economics. Papen wanted to use Hitler as a figure-head, but the Nazis had gained key positions, most notably the Ministry of the Interior. On the morning of January 30, 1933, in Hindenburg's office, Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor during what some observers later described as a brief and simple ceremony.


Reichstag Fire and the March elections

Having become Chancellor, Hitler foiled all attempts to gain a majority in parliament and on that basis convinced President Hindenburg to dissolve the Reichstag again. Elections were scheduled for early March, but before that day, the Reichstag building was set on fire on February 27 under still unclear circumstances. Since a Dutch independent communist was found in the building, the fire was blamed on a Communist plot to which the government reacted with the Reichstag Fire Decree of February 28, which suspended basic rights including habeas corpus. Under the provisions of this decree, the Communist Party and other groups were suppressed; Communist functionaries and deputies were arrested, put to flight or murdered.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
37. Published in the last hour, remarks by London's Mayor Livingstone
Chávez and Venezuela deserve the support of all who believe in social justice and democracy
Posted: 2006/05/15
From: Mathaba

George Bush's refusal to respect the choices of the Venezuelan people shows that his administration has no real interest in promoting democracy at all.


By Ken Livingstone

President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela will today become the second head of state - after the Queen - to be welcomed to London's City Hall. When it comes to the social transformation taking place in Venezuela, the political qualifications often necessary in our imperfect world can be set aside. It is crystal clear on which side right and justice lies. For many years people have demanded that social progress and democracy go hand in hand, and that is exactly what is now taking place in Venezuela.

It therefore deserves the unequivocal support of not only every supporter of social progress but every genuine believer in democracy in the world.

Venezuela is a state of huge oil wealth that was hitherto scarcely used to benefit the population. Now, for the first time in a country of over 25 million people, a functioning health service is being built. Seventeen million people have been given access to free healthcare for the first time in their lives. Illiteracy has been eliminated. Fifteen million people have been given access to food, medicines and other essential products at affordable prices. A quarter of a million eye operations have been financed to rescue people from blindness. These are extraordinary practical achievements.

Little wonder, then, that Chávez and his supporters have won 10 elections in eight years. These victories were achieved despite a private media largely controlled by opponents of the government. Yet Chávez's visit has been met with absurd claims from rightwing activists that he is some kind of dictator.
(snip/...)

http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=537304
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
38. Livingstone lunching with Chavez
Livingstone lunching with Chavez
Press Association
Monday May 15, 2006 6:08 AM


Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez will continue his two-day visit to London with a lunch hosted by Ken Livingstone.

Mr Livingstone is a strong supporter of the radical left-wing president and has defended him as "the best news out of Latin America in many years."

They will be joined at the lunch by figures from the worlds of culture, finance and fashion as well as trade unionists and MPs.

Guests include playwright Harold Pinter, Bianca Jagger, Peter Voser, Chief Financial Officer of Shell International, fashion designer Katherine Hamnett and Michael Lynch, director of the South Bank Centre.

MPs expected to attend include Tony Lloyd, Jon Cruddas, Diane Abbott, Colin Burgon, Dawn Butler and Jon Trickett.

The trip was designed to establish stronger economic links with the Latin American country.
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-5822391,00.html
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